agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[Tinker'n'Fun]

You're right, it's not. Look at it from the judge's point of view - you knew it was coming, you had time to prepare.

So, if you *do* have a backup plan, that means if you stand before a judge and say "I can't find childcare," you are going to be lying. You CAN find childcare. You choose not to. And the fact that you have very good, legitimate reasons for not using alternative childcare isn't going to matter to many judges. So why lie about it? Why pretend you have no options? Instead, I like the idea someone posted upthread about stating a financial hardship. Don't claim your husband can't take off work. Don't claim there isn't a single trustworthy babysitter in your town. Don't claim drop-in care doesn't exist. The judge is unlikely to believe you. Tell the truth and say "My husband can take off work to care for our child, but he doesn't get paid for that so it would be a severe financial hardship, and if it goes on for longer than a couple of days he might lose his job" or "I can get daycare for a week, but we have three kids at home and it would be a severe financial hardship to get last-minute care for all three of them."

The most logical post in the thread, which means it will most likely be the most ignored post also.

 

[angwill]

Do NOT bring kids. When I was recently at jury duty it was basically said that you can be in contempt.

The problem is if you leave your kids home alone you will be putting them in danger and will have them taken away. If you don't show up because of this you will be held in contempt to so you do what you have to do and take your chances.

 

[allison443]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure women entered the workforce, and got the right to vote/serve on juries, LONG before the ERA ever came up.

You are correct

 

[angwill]

You're right, it's not. Look at it from the judge's point of view - you knew it was coming, you had time to prepare.

So, if you *do* have a backup plan, that means if you stand before a judge and say "I can't find childcare," you are going to be lying. You CAN find childcare. You choose not to. And the fact that you have very good, legitimate reasons for not using alternative childcare isn't going to matter to many judges. So why lie about it? Why pretend you have no options? Instead, I like the idea someone posted upthread about stating a financial hardship. Don't claim your husband can't take off work. Don't claim there isn't a single trustworthy babysitter in your town. Don't claim drop-in care doesn't exist. The judge is unlikely to believe you. Tell the truth and say "My husband can take off work to care for our child, but he doesn't get paid for that so it would be a severe financial hardship, and if it goes on for longer than a couple of days he might lose his job" or "I can get daycare for a week, but we have three kids at home and it would be a severe financial hardship to get last-minute care for all three of them."

You do not live in the same areas or have the same situation as others so you can not say that everyone can find childcare no matter where they live. Do you think someone should pay to put an add in the paper as soon as they get that jury notice saying they are looking for a trustworthy babysitter to watch their child while at jury duty? What if nobody answers that add? If someone does they won't know that person so how do they know they are sincerely trustworthy?

Do bigger cities actually have drop in child care?

I think you are assuming a lot by saying that everyone CAN find good childcare for a day or longer.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I don't think being a SAHM is a valid excuse. Financially it will just as hard on working moms! If we had to take time without pay but still pay for childcare we are losing money too.

I was a SAHM for 2 years and went to a bunch of Mommy's groups. Met lots of new friends. Lots of them would have babysat my kids for a week or two to earn a little cash.

Do most SAHM's not get to know othesr via playgroups, nursery schools, etc?? If you have no one that can help out in an emergency that is really sad.

I'm sure if you ask your neighbours. husband's coworkers or at church or the community centre you could find someone that could babysit.

 

[tlbwriter]

Do you think someone should pay to put an add in the paper as soon as they get that jury notice saying they are looking for a trustworthy babysitter to watch their child while at jury duty? What if nobody answers that add? If someone does they won't know that person so how do they know they are sincerely trustworthy?

If I were a SAHM with absolutely no other options, as soon as I got that jury notice I'd be looking for childcare. And if I wasn't able to find anyone, I'd show up with a list of options in my home town showing who I had contacted and that they were unable to help me. Or a phone book showing that there was not a single daycare provider in my town. I wouldn't simply show up on day 1 and say "But I don't haaaaaave anybody!"

Do bigger cities actually have drop in child care?

My town of about 50,000 people does.

I think you are assuming a lot by saying that everyone CAN find good childcare for a day or longer.

I'm saying that if that's not true, don't claim that it is. Because if I were the judge, my first question would be "did you look?"

 

[angwill]

I don't think being a SAHM is a valid excuse. Financially it will just as hard on working moms! If we had to take time without pay but still pay for childcare we are losing money too.

I was a SAHM for 2 years and went to a bunch of Mommy's groups. Met lots of new friends. Lots of them would have babysat my kids for a week or two to earn a little cash.

Do most SAHM's not get to know othesr via playgroups, nursery schools, etc?? If you have no one that can help out in an emergency that is really sad.

I'm sure if you ask your neighbours. husband's coworkers or at church or the community centre you could find someone that could babysit.

I agree it is hard on working moms as well.

You have to stop and realize that it is easy to look around you and see the opportunities you have and assume everyone has those same opportunities. The fact of the matter is that not everyone lives where you live or has the same opportunities you have. What about the housewife who lives in a very rural area in the middle of the country in a town with only a bar? Not everyone has neighbors, community centers, nursery centers etc. Not everyone chooses to go to church. When living in a rural area chances are that jobs are a long drive away so coworkers are not even in the area. Your reality is not everyone elses reality.

 

[CdnCarrie]

I agree it is hard on working moms as well.

You have to stop and realize that it is easy to look around you and see the opportunities you have and assume everyone has those same opportunities. The fact of the matter is that not everyone lives where you live or has the same opportunities you have. What about the housewife who lives in a very rural area in the middle of the country in a town with only a bar? Not everyone has neighbors, community centers, nursery centers etc. Not everyone chooses to go to church. When living in a rural area chances are that jobs are a long drive away so coworkers are not even in the area. Your reality is not everyone elses reality.

I would think in a rural area it's more likely to know people around you. Being a smaller community you would get to know others.

But I mean unless you live in total isolation you must belong to something that connects you with others.

I mean if it's that rural that there is only a bar then where are they going for jury duty?

You can't make a blanket statement either way.

However I'm sure even small towns have some kind of Mom's group even if it's not an official club just ladies getting together once in a while. And the local grocery store probably has a bulletin board where people advertise that they are looking for childcare/to provide childcare. With less job opportunities around I would think smaller communities would have more SAHMs looking for a way to find some extra cash.

 

[wvjules]

Sounds like a bunch of piss poor excuses to me.

 

[tlbwriter]

You have to stop and realize that it is easy to look around you and see the opportunities you have and assume everyone has those same opportunities. The fact of the matter is that not everyone lives where you live or has the same opportunities you have. What about the housewife who lives in a very rural area in the middle of the country in a town with only a bar? Not everyone has neighbors, community centers, nursery centers etc. Not everyone chooses to go to church. When living in a rural area chances are that jobs are a long drive away so coworkers are not even in the area. Your reality is not everyone elses reality.

You also have to realize that a judge is very likely to say "Why should your housing choice exempt you from your civic duty?" I'm not saying it's right, I'm saying it happens, and be prepared for it.

 

[angwill]

If I were a SAHM with absolutely no other options, as soon as I got that jury notice I'd be looking for childcare. And if I wasn't able to find anyone, I'd show up with a list of options in my home town showing who I had contacted and that they were unable to help me. Or a phone book showing that there was not a single daycare provider in my town. I wouldn't simply show up on day 1 and say "But I don't haaaaaave anybody!"



My town of about 50,000 people does.



I'm saying that if that's not true, don't claim that it is. Because if I were the judge, my first question would be "did you look?"

I did exactly that when I showed up with my child. I told them I called the only daycare center in the town near me and the one in the town where the court was both said no walk ins. I even called the one ad in the paper of a daycare provider who said she doesn't do walk ins or part time. I got dismissed.

My town of 414 people and any surrounding towns within a 45 minute drive have no drop in daycare centers.

I understand what you are saying about not looking and saying you did. I am just saying not everyone lives with the same opportunities.

 

[tlbwriter]

I did exactly that when I showed up with my child. I told them I called the only daycare center in the town near me and the one in the town where the court was both said no walk ins. I even called the one ad in the paper of a daycare provider who said she doesn't do walk ins or part time. I got dismissed.

My town of 414 people and any surrounding towns within a 45 minute drive have no drop in daycare centers.

I understand what you are saying about not looking and saying you did. I am just saying not everyone lives with the same opportunities.

So, you did what I said - you showed that you had tried, and there weren't any options. So where exactly do we disagree? I didn't say everyone has the same opportunities. I used the IF word.

 

[Kathi OD]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure women entered the workforce, and got the right to vote/serve on juries, LONG before the ERA ever came up.

True, HOWEVER, I was pointing out how what our forefathers envisioned and how things are now have changed. You can roll your eyes all you want, but prior to the ERA push, women were routinely allowed to postpone serving on juries because they were needed at home to care for children, which was considered at the time (right or wrong) to be their job, while their husbands were at work. ERA wasn't about the right to vote or serve on juries, it was about the right to be treated the same as men, legally. Like it or not, since the push for equality, many accommodations that were once afforded to women (this being one of them) have been rescinded, using the argument that if a man is required to do something (in this case,forgo his work to serve on a jury), a women should be required to do likewise.

I'm not saying I agree with it (not being able to use lack of childcare as a valid reason for postponing jury duty). However, if we (women in general) want to be treated the same as men in everything, then we've got to take the good with the bad, and be prepared to make some sacrifices.

 

[angwill]

I would think in a rural area it's more likely to know people around you. Being a smaller community you would get to know others.

But I mean unless you live in total isolation you must belong to something that connects you with others.

I mean if it's that rural that there is only a bar then where are they going for jury duty?

You can't make a blanket statement either way.

However I'm sure even small towns have some kind of Mom's group even if it's not an official club just ladies getting together once in a while. And the local grocery store probably has a bulletin board where people advertise that they are looking for childcare/to provide childcare. With less job opportunities around I would think smaller communities would have more SAHMs looking for a way to find some extra cash.

In a small town where you have no neighbors where do you go to meet people the bar? lol The reality in a small town is that when you move to a small town it is harder to fit in and make friends because you are an outsider and will forever be an outsider. It would be nice if it were like you would think it would be and it seems in movies.

You go to the county courthouse which can be very far from home for jury duty.

 

[angwill]

So, you did what I said - you showed that you had tried, and there weren't any options. So where exactly do we disagree? I didn't say everyone has the same opportunities. I used the IF word.

You are correct I went back and reread what you wrote and you were using a situation where one did have backup daycare but said they didn't.

 

[Gigi22]

This is somewhat OT, but related.

My car was stolen a few years ago. Luckily, the police recovered it, with the thieves still in it. The thieves were charged, and I was subpoenaed to testify at their hearing.

Long story short, I took the day off work and went in to court at the appointed day and time. I was very chagrined to see that the thieves all pleaded innocent. (I was nervous about testifying).

But, before the case came up, the policeman in charge of the investigation had me paged, and we had an odd little 'meeting' in public outside the courtroom.

After the meeting in the hallway, my case came up, and miracle of miracles, the thieves all decided to change their plea to guilty! The police had used the meeting they had with me to demonstrate to the thieves and their lawyers that I was there as a witness.

While I sat in the courtroom, I came to the realization that a lot of people charged with criminal offences (mainly various types of theft that day) were just allowed to walk away without ever being tried, simply because the witnesses who were subpoenaed to testify didn't bother to show up at the courtroom.

I feel very strongly that we all share a civic responsibility to keep society and the rule of law going. It won't always be easy, or convenient--that's why it is called a responsibility.

 

[kamik86]

One thing I would like to see is to have the jury duty process be better... for everyone.

So I went and we sat around for an hour or two in a holding room. Then we watched a really boring video. Then we sat around for 30 more min. (ok so we could have just came in an hour and 1/2 later and watched the video right away and been all set)

Then we all go up to the courtroom. The judge tells us a bit about the case and reads a LONG list of people that may be involved and asks if we know any of them as well as some other general questions. This couldn't be done by mailing a paper with the list then asking the questions and having a few lines to explain?

This way everyone can get there and start right at the groups of 12 goign in for questioning by the lawyers part. The extra few hours that some people wouldn't need health care, were able to go to work, etc could make a big difference. I normally work 6:30-3:30 so if I didn't have to come in until 10 I could work almost half my day and maybe make up some time at the end too.

 

[Michelle and crew]

eh, there are 50 years possible to serve, and about 7 that would have been difficult time for me. Most people would be about the same, I would guess.

There isn't any reason that the court can't skip a rotation and and call more often later.

Assuming that everyone has the same sort of childcare options is stupid. It is amazing how many women with little ones are isolated due to exhaustion, and/or ppd. If you are a sahp due to unemployment, there is probably not the cash to pay an outsider. There are a million different scenarios. Being snooty because you managed it, or think when and if it does happen (lol) just shows you are snooty.

The court should allow for volunteers. My husband is 50 years old and has never been called and would love to be called. That makes a lot of sense.

 

[cm8]

I received jury duty notice, and sent in my regular excuse--non-employed, caring for 3 small children. I was told by the clerk that this is not an excuse in federal court. I am awaiting response to a letter I sent to court, explaining that my baby is receiving services for developmental delays and a parent (not a babysitter) must be present for the instructors to come to our home.

If I go, DH will have to take the day off of work (we're living on one income), and if I get chosen to serve, it will cost me a lot for childcare! Anyone ever experience this, and any advice?

Please note: I do believe in jury duty and will gladly serve--when my youngest is in school full time!

I was called for Jury Duty and filled out the form citing medical and physical reasons I was not able to sit for federal JD, I was excused

 

[SoonerSarah]

eh, there are 50 years possible to serve, and about 7 that would have been difficult time for me. Most people would be about the same, I would guess.

There isn't any reason that the court can't skip a rotation and and call more often later.

Assuming that everyone has the same sort of childcare options is stupid. It is amazing how many women with little ones are isolated due to exhaustion, and/or ppd. If you are a sahp due to unemployment, there is probably not the cash to pay an outsider. There are a million different scenarios. Being snooty because you managed it, or think when and if it does happen (lol) just shows you are snooty.

The court should allow for volunteers. My husband is 50 years old and has never been called and would love to be called. That makes a lot of sense.

This is so well said! There are a good number of people that have been repeatedly called while their children are younger, and the situation is vastly more difficult for them to be able to serve.

For example, say that I'm currently going to serve on a jury for just one week. I have to find temporary child care. I have no clue what costs are, but lets just say that for temporary, it will be $25 per child, per day. And I will have to pump, which also means that I'm going to have to buy one of those as well. So $300 is my cost for the week, which I absolutely do not have right now. Not to mention that I don't have a vehicle, so I'm not certain how all that would would work out either.

Or, because I have young children at home, systems could be put in place so that I do not serve now currently, and I serve when all of my children are in school. Yes, that will be somewhat of a hardship, my husband will have to take off of work early and make up work later (which we are blessed to have the option of occasionally being able to do). However, it does not leave us out of money that we don't have to spend, and while it is not an easy situation for us, it is certainly one that is manageable and doable, and can be dealt with for a short period of time.

As for the pumping under a blanket, my thought is that the judge who will not excuse a nursing mother, or make allowances for her to pump in another room is going to be the judge that will hold her in contempt and possibly slap her with some sort of charge for pumping, however discreetly, in the courtroom.