agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[JaymeC]

Perhaps not. But you will lose pay and have to pay childcare so it's the same boat financially wise for both.

Childcare is childcare. All parents have to find at some point or another like the PP says.

My point is that no I don't think SAHM should get off jury duty just because they are SAHMs.

I don't think people should be exempt because they're SAHMs but I do think you need to realize something. Childcare is HARD to find. Especially reliable childcare who you can trust an infant with! My children were NEVER in childcare as an infant. Period. As toddlers from time to time I swapped with friends after I rebuilt my social network after our latest round of moving, but even that was a casual swap not an all day ordeal that could last a month. When I moved here before I started working I started looking for some reliable childcare for both children and it took me 2-3 weeks to place an ad, interview people, etc. All the local daycare facilities that I thought were acceptable had a LONG wait list.

I don't get how people don't understand this. Yes, childcare is out there, but it takes some time to find and if you've SAHed with your children it can also be hard to let them go to someone you don't know very well and trust very well (as a temp situation would have to be by default)

 

[blanq]

cough cough ~~idealist~~cough cough

Many families are just trying to feed their children and keep a roof over their head. That is what a "realist" would realize. It is easy when you aren't in the position, or if the position wasn't difficult due to your easy circumstance at the time, to stand in judgment.

I am 48 with a now almost grown child, so I have the experience you deem necessary to have an opinion about this issue. I have to say, I agree with the 20 year old.

 

[KandD]

Wouldn't it be nice if childcare was provided!??!

Actually (I work in a courthouse) and one of the prosecutors was telling me that they looked into childcare but the insurance rates were outrageous.

 

[bumbershoot]

I don't think people should be exempt because they're SAHMs but I do think you need to realize something. Childcare is HARD to find. Especially reliable childcare who you can trust an infant with! My children were NEVER in childcare as an infant. Period. As toddlers from time to time I swapped with friends after I rebuilt my social network after our latest round of moving, but even that was a casual swap not an all day ordeal that could last a month. When I moved here before I started working I started looking for some reliable childcare for both children and it took me 2-3 weeks to place an ad, interview people, etc. All the local daycare facilities that I thought were acceptable had a LONG wait list.

I don't get how people don't understand this. Yes, childcare is out there, but it takes some time to find and if you've SAHed with your children it can also be hard to let them go to someone you don't know very well and trust very well (as a temp situation would have to be by default)

I agree with all of that.

And I haven't even done much of it. NO one but hubby watched DS as an infant. I had MIL watch him ONE time when he was 4 and it didn't go well; he loves his grandma, but not alone. We thought it would be a good idea to have our landlady's daughter watching him while we finished up a move from one building to another across the street, and he really disliked it b/c she teased him mercilessly (it's how her family interacts with each other but I dind' trealize they'd do it to a little kid). That's it!

Any friend I have who might WANT to watch him would have to take off from work. And most of my friends, it seems are big teasing people who would have him in tears, which is rotten.

If I were called in, I would have a SERIOUS problem on my hands, especially if hubby were on a work trip and couldn't get home to work from home and watch him (and hubby cannot always work from home, even when here). I have no clue who I would call. I would be in quite a bit of trouble, most definitely.

 

[MrsPete]

Sorry, no sympathy here.

Jury duty is a civic responsibility, and I don't see that being a SAHM (or a working mom, or a person for whom it'd be inconvenient to miss work, etc.) should excuse a person from that responsibility. When I've had jury duty, I've had several weeks' notice -- that should be enough time to arrange for a friend to care for the children, especially since it isn't even a full work day. You're talking about a couple days, not a full-fledged job.

How many people fought to earn women the right to own property, to vote, to work -- in short, to have choices. Do we really want to fall back on the "but I'm a mama" excuse when something's inconvenient?

 

[Costumesaremylife]

I wonder how they do decide who to call? I have a library card and am a registered voter and have never been called. DH was called 3 years ago, served, and got another notice 2 months ago.

It happened to be a really bad time with his work and he called and asked if that was a valid reason for deferment. They said no problem.

They get the names from the census.

 

[dhcoffey]

I am so glad our judges stopped asking the jury pool if they had reasons they couldn't serve and we don't have to hear those excuses anymore. It never failed that if 150 were called, we were lucky if 80 showed up. Then out of that 80, probably another 25 to 30 would have excuses why they couldn't serve. That meant we didn't have enough left over to pick jurys for all week. Then come the complaints of a slow judicial system....

My judges have also started fining people $300 for not showing up, too, unless they could provide legal proof of an acceptable reason for not being there.

 

[Hannathy]

Sorry, no sympathy here.

Jury duty is a civic responsibility, and I don't see that being a SAHM (or a working mom, or a person for whom it'd be inconvenient to miss work, etc.) should excuse a person from that responsibility. When I've had jury duty, I've had several weeks' notice -- that should be enough time to arrange for a friend to care for the children, especially since it isn't even a full work day. You're talking about a couple days, not a full-fledged job.

How many people fought to earn women the right to own property, to vote, to work -- in short, to have choices. Do we really want to fall back on the "but I'm a mama" excuse when something's inconvenient?

I agree! This generation of Moms really need to stop and think about what we went thru to earn them the opportunities they have today.

I do not want child care provided, my taxes are high enough and they are your kids not mine I don't want to pay.

What I think could be provided would be a list of bonded or certified sitters with a background check done that could be handed to the people who say they have no one to watch the kids. There problem solved and it would work for people watching an elderly relative also.

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

My judges have also started fining people $300 for not showing up, too, unless they could provide legal proof of an acceptable reason for not being there.

Is there any other punishment than just paying the $300? Most people I know would pay the $300 and skip jury duty if there were no threat of jailtime. I'm not kidding. Heck, there have been times when I would have paid the $300 (like when I had nursing babies).

 

[crzy4my2]

I am so glad our judges stopped asking the jury pool if they had reasons they couldn't serve and we don't have to hear those excuses anymore. It never failed that if 150 were called, we were lucky if 80 showed up. Then out of that 80, probably another 25 to 30 would have excuses why they couldn't serve. That meant we didn't have enough left over to pick jurys for all week. Then come the complaints of a slow judicial system....

My judges have also started fining people $300 for not showing up, too, unless they could provide legal proof of an acceptable reason for not being there.

Here in MA (at least back in the day,could be different now) if you don't show up they would put out a warrent for your arrest.

 

[mhsjax]

OP- Everyone's relationships are different, but maybe ask the grandparents how they feel about it? Again, I don't know what your life is like but I don't know any grandparents who would hesitate or who would think it was inappropriate to be asked to take off work to care for their grandkids so the parents could go to jury duty.

Course, my dad had to go to Vietnam and my in-laws classmates did, so maybe it's just that comparatively they feel it's a small sacrifice.

Well, my dad was in WWII in the south pacific and he would not have taken off work to watch my kids. He would tell me it was my responsibility to find care for them. See that was his generation, they took care of themselves and didn't depend on someone to watch their kids. Work was his responsibility and that was that. It is great that most grand parents would take off, well maybe they would, but being in a war doesn't make it so.

 

[mrsklamc]

Well, my dad was in WWII in the south pacific and he would not have taken off work to watch my kids. He would tell me it was my responsibility to find care for them. See that was his generation, they took care of themselves and didn't depend on someone to watch their kids. Work was his responsibility and that was that. It is great that most grand parents would take off, well maybe they would, but being in a war doesn't make it so.

No, being in a war doesn't make it so at all. I was reflecting on MY parents and in-laws and how they've spoken about how their life experience affected their views.

Everyone's experience and perspective is different; my grandfather was also very much 'take care of yourselves and don't depend on anyone else' but that didn't extend to family. Taking care of his grandkids would have been part of his 'taking care of his own.' May not be that way for the OP, I just wondered if she'd asked, because she said she wouldn't ask them, and some grandparents would consider it an honor. Maybe she knows they wouldn't, I don't know. But I just wondered if she'd asked.

 

[Leajess99]

I honestly still cannot believe how many people keep using childcare as an excuse. As a single parent I always know who can watch my children should the need arise. I was a single parent on Active Duty Army and my mother gave up everything and moved here to help in case I needed her help with my child (only one at the time and I was dual military with my now ex in korea). There were many times when she was taking my child(ren) to the doctor as my bosses did not like me missing work. If my child(ren) had shots than she kept them so they would not have to go back to the daycare. Even before she moved here and when I was station in Washington State I had the daycare center and extra people set as backup sitters since the daycare would not take a sick child. Why wait to find someone when you could research and know beforehand who could possibly take your child(ren)?? I just don't get this. Oh and my youngest never went to daycare but if I needed someone to watch her I had several people available to help me out. My friends and family also worked but they helped make it all work out.

There are many courts and judges (we have a female judge here as well) that will not let you off because of being a parent. What would you say if a man were requesting to not do jury duty because he is a sahd?? I don't think too many would feel the same way and some might even claim the man was just using it as an excuse. It is time to step up and do your duty when called upon unless you have a truely valid reason that you can show the court proof of (ex. medical disability/illness, child with severe disability, etc)

 

[VAfamily1998]

I honestly still cannot believe how many people keep using childcare as an excuse. As a single parent I always know who can watch my children should the need arise. I was a single parent on Active Duty Army and my mother gave up everything and moved here to help in case I needed her help with my child (only one at the time and I was dual military with my now ex in korea). There were many times when she was taking my child(ren) to the doctor as my bosses did not like me missing work. If my child(ren) had shots than she kept them so they would not have to go back to the daycare. Even before she moved here and when I was station in Washington State I had the daycare center and extra people set as backup sitters since the daycare would not take a sick child. Why wait to find someone when you could research and know beforehand who could possibly take your child(ren)?? I just don't get this. Oh and my youngest never went to daycare but if I needed someone to watch her I had several people available to help me out. My friends and family also worked but they helped make it all work out.

Wow, you were very fortunate to have a mother willing to do all that for you. Not everyone's mother is willing/able to do that. I honestly can't believe why some people don't understand that.

 

[mhsjax]

No, being in a war doesn't make it so at all. I was reflecting on MY parents and in-laws and how they've spoken about how their life experience affected their views.

Everyone's experience and perspective is different; my grandfather was also very much 'take care of yourselves and don't depend on anyone else' but that didn't extend to family. Taking care of his grandkids would have been part of his 'taking care of his own.' May not be that way for the OP, I just wondered if she'd asked, because she said she wouldn't ask them, and some grandparents would consider it an honor. Maybe she knows they wouldn't, I don't know. But I just wondered if she'd asked.

Gotcha. My dad was very different, and I can tell you that the war changed him also, in some ways not for the best, but he did believe in doing your duty and would not have been happy with me if I had ever tried to get out of jury duty My parents did babysit when they could, but they pretty much said, your kids, you need to make arrangements. Now when you want to bring them over for us to spoil rotten go ahead, just don't leave them

 

[mhsjax]

Wow, you were very fortunate to have a mother willing to do all that for you. Not everyone's mother is willing/able to do that. I honestly can't believe why some people don't understand that.

I would have in trouble when my kids were young. My parents didn't live here, and if they did, they weren't healthy enough. No other family, all of my friends worked. I am sure at that time my DH could have gotten off work, but things have changed and now if I had young kids I am almost positive that he would not be allowed to call in.

Even now, almost all of my friends work, and I actually did have an emergency once and I had to call 911 and watch as they took my DH off and I had to stay home with my kids. It turned out to be nothing serious but I had to wait for his call and then take them with me to pick him up at the ER.

 

[SoonerSarah]

What I think could be provided would be a list of bonded or certified sitters with a background check done that could be handed to the people who say they have no one to watch the kids. There problem solved and it would work for people watching an elderly relative also.

That I think would be a great idea, but Im sure people would find some way to complain about it so that it couldn't be done anymore. Favortism, etc.

The hospitals here give out lists of all of the area Pedi's. The list clearly states that they do not endorse anyone, etc. But especially for someone new to town, it is nice to have a list.

 

[2girlsR2good]

What I think could be provided would be a list of bonded or certified sitters with a background check done that could be handed to the people who say they have no one to watch the kids. There problem solved and it would work for people watching an elderly relative also.

That would be really helpful. I've been called for jury duty 3 times. The first time I spent quite a long time on a murder trial. 2nd time I had a nursing infant and was eventually excused. (3rd time I had moved out of the county.) The 2nd time was the tricky one--apparently a nursing baby isn't automatically an excuse. When I called, I was told that no, there would be no time or place provided for me to pump if I were to come in. I also learned that there was not a single daycare that would take an infant on a temporary basis while a mom did jury duty. An older child is easier to find care for. My experience with the first round of jury duty led me to panic when I got my second summons. The list you describe above would have helped me handle the situation with less panic.

 

[kaytieeldr]

What I think could be provided would be a list of bonded or certified sitters with a background check done that could be handed to the people who say they have no one to watch the kids. There problem solved and it would work for people watching an elderly relative also.

That I think would be a great idea, but Im sure people would find some way to complain about it so that it couldn't be done anymore. Favortism, etc.

Or - based on years of reading the DIS forums - the potential jurors with childcare issues not knowing/trusting even bonded or certified child care persons on such a list, or being unwilling to leave their children with anyone they don't know,,, yet, based on this thread and others, not being able (willing?) to get to know people whom they'd trust with their children for geographic or other reasons.

 

[kaytieeldr]

What a Jerk. A judge who threw around csb threats like that should be disrobed and would not survive reelection here.

Well, if everybody called for jury duty would just show up and serve, instead of coming up with a wide range of excuses why they can't serve, such extreme measures wouldn't be necessary. Every one of us should simply expect to be called for jury duty one or more times in our lives, and have some type of support or care system in place if one's situation warrants.

Don't know anybody in town? Get to know people. Too new to belong to a church? Call the churches anyway - maybe somebody can help out. Financial hardship? Well, yeah, that's a drawback when one lives from paycheck to paycheck and one's employer doesn't pay for jury duty. In some cases, though (as one recent poster demonstrated) it may be possible to work 'off' hours.

As for not reelecting the judge who subpoenaed shoppers? Since (a) the move was legal and (b) it was done in desperation because not enough called jurors showed up - I'd reelect that judge in a snap. Smart judge.