agree to disagree? gray areas everywhere

[kaytieeldr]

I don't understand all of you with the "suck it up" attitude, especially the 20 yr old who hasn't really had to deal with being the head of a household, with children to support. You all have a very idealistic view. Yes, it would be great if we could all serve. I'm sure most people really do want to.

Very respectfully, reading this thread, I would have to disagree with you. It appears the bulk of posters simply don't want to serve on juries, whether because it merely inconveniences them or because it may force a budget stretch, or them to make home schedule changes (again, inconvenience). Or they just don't want to serve. Pity, too.

For those of you who really don't want to serve on Federal juries, try this: Show up. Get picked. Arrange, coincidentally, for your spouse to have a heart attack that same day. Call the court that night or the next morning (because, frankly, this happened pre-cellphone). Get excused temporarily. Never get picked again.

 

[Shleedogg]

Here in NY the pay for serving on a jury is very low, if I remember correctly when I served a few years ago it was $40/day. If you are there for a full 7 or 8 hour day, that's not even minimum wage.

I'm also learning from this thread that the policies vary a lot by state, or even by district. My partner was called to serve in NY State Supreme Court in Brooklyn when DD was an infant, and got excused for 5 years with no problem at all. I am seeing that in other states it's not so easy.

Also here once you do serve, you are excused for the next 7 years. In other states the time excused seems to be shorter. Perhaps the large population in my area makes it easier to be excused, because there's a larger potential juror pool.

I'm glad to hear that. I'm in NYS as well. Although I'm in western NY, I'm assuming that the 7 year rule, excusing for bfing will apply all over the state. Although the excuse for bfing might vary by court from what I'm reading on the link another person posted. Jury duty never crossed my mind w/ my DD. Now I'm all nervous that I'm going to be called in the spring after baby #2 gets here and I'm going to have to fight it.

 

[kaytieeldr]

Our county court pays $10 a day. Woo Hoo!

I am biased against the system because I was forever having to show up and be sent back to work where i had already cancelled my appts. for the day.

As far as chicagodisneyfan's statement about every sahm should have childcare, I'd ask "why." I didn't when I was a sahm. The whole purpose of being one was so that i didn't need childcare.

I would suggest that while things are FAR from perfect here, you all encourage your states to adopt the Massachusetts model of "one day, one trial". You get called for jury duty. You go. If selected for a trial, you serve for that trial and you're done for three years. If not selected for a trial, you stay until the judge dismisses you - and you're done for three years. And that covers you for Federal court as well.

Try it, it works.

 

[pintamino]

I'm sorry, I just have to That's generally the response of someone who doesn't have something concrete to back their point up. You are an idealist. In an ideal world, we should all have to serve, family obligations or not; it is our duty to make it happen. The reality of the situation is that some people really cannot serve. I pray that when you get older you never are faced with financial hardship (work at a courthouse). Perhaps then you will understand our side. Without having actually lived through being a sole caregiver, living paycheck to paycheck w/ dependents I think you can see why we say what we say but you can't really understand it and be compassionate yet.

What do you propose a SAHM do (we'll take out the breastfeeding aspect as I don't believe that's an issue for OP) who's husband works, has no PTO, has no family in the area, is new and thus does not really know anyone, and cannot afford childcare? Daycare centers will not take a child temporarily. So are they supposed to go find a stranger off the street? Perhaps just leave their children at home unattended?

As for having childcare in the courts? I can say honestly that I wouldn't leave my child w/ someone I don't know. I thank my lucky stars that this will never be an issue for me.

I don't owe you an explanation of what I've been unfortunate enough to live through, and since you ignored my question (generally a response of somebody who doesn't have an answer), I'll assume you don't have an answer and hope you will someday have the grace to stop mocking people online

 

[SoonerSarah]

I'm sorry, but the woman in the hall of shame who refused to serve because she was still nursing her 2 year-old is not a good example. I'm still nursing my 2 year-old too, but she can be away from me for a day or more if needed. A 2 year-old isn't nursing for nutrition. That just sounds like a crazy excuse to get out of jury duty to me and I am an extended BFing mom myself!

I didn't say that every story on there was a perfect example. But there are a lot of stories on there. There is one where I woman had an elderly relative living with her, a nursing infant and 2 or 3 other younger children and she was not excused.



I do think that if they want to get more women serving on a jury, then there needs to be some better guidelines set in place. For those of us that are willing to figure out some short term alternate care for our children, but are still BFing, either make accomodations for the woman to pump or to BFed her child that is brought into her. If they are unwilling to make a small accomodation for that, then priorities need to be figured out. Our government wants women to be BFing, and to be doing it longer, this is a small way to better work towards that goal. There have been women that are willing to serve, and were treated poorly because they were BFing.


I never realized that anyone would include jury duty in their "emergency care" plans for their children. I always thought of an emergency as medical or death.

 

[rynosmom]

My DH was call for Federal Grand Jury Duty last summer. DH works for a small plumbing and heating company with only 2 employees. We called before the court date and explained that DH would not get paid for his days while on Jury Duty and was told that there were no excuses given everyone needed to show up and state their case when called. DH went and was not asked to servebut he did say that the judge was very fair and picked people who would either get paid for the days or were retired or unemployed 1st. He had no problem filling the spots and DH never had to plead his case.

I think if the OP just states her case of no long term childcare she should be fine.

 

[tlbwriter]

What do you propose a SAHM do (we'll take out the breastfeeding aspect as I don't believe that's an issue for OP) who's husband works, has no PTO, has no family in the area, is new and thus does not really know anyone, and cannot afford childcare? Daycare centers will not take a child temporarily. So are they supposed to go find a stranger off the street? Perhaps just leave their children at home unattended?

This is something that puzzles me... why do people leave themselves without a safety net? What would the SAHM in this situation do if she had an emergency other than jury duty? Even if you don't intend to use daycare, why wouldn't you at least line up someone you could trust if you had to go to the emergency room or something?

 

[brymolmom]

This is something that puzzles me... why do people leave themselves without a safety net? What would the SAHM in this situation do if she had an emergency other than jury duty? Even if you don't intend to use daycare, why wouldn't you at least line up someone you could trust if you had to go to the emergency room or something?

I think the big difference here is that jury duty does not = an emergency. Sure, if a SAHM got very sick and had to be in the hospital or some other true emergency, I'm sure the working parent would stay home to care for the child, and go without pay, even if it hurts, and potentially lose the job at some point. While we hope this kind of thing doesn't happen often, I truly believe it shouldn't have to happen for a non-emergency like jury duty. Oh and kids are allowed in an emergency room where they are not allowed in a jury room apparently...

 

[Ava]

I think the big difference here is that jury duty does not = an emergency. Sure, if a SAHM got very sick and had to be in the hospital or some other true emergency, I'm sure the working parent would stay home to care for the child, and go without pay, even if it hurts, and potentially lose the job at some point. While we hope this kind of thing doesn't happen often, I truly believe it shouldn't have to happen for a non-emergency like jury duty. Oh and kids are allowed in an emergency room where they are not allowed in a jury room apparently...

You beat me to it. If my partner had to go to the emergency room, DD would go with her & I would leave work to meet them there. Jury duty is not an emergency.

 

[angwill]

If a parent doesn't have someone to watch there child in an emergency like going to the ER they have to take the child with them. You can't leave them at home and have to do what you have to do.

 

[mommyof2princesses]

I would love to serve once. I have only been called once and was excused. I was a single mom and going to college full time. It was 14 years ago and I guess that was good enough.

I could definitely do it now, as my first dd is old enough to watch my other dd and I only work part time. But, not having a babysitter would not make me a bad mom. Remember, judge not lest the by judged!

I also didn't realized that if you were nursing they would not let you pump for the 10-15 minutes it takes. Ouch!

 

[lonegirl]

ONCE AGAIN:

I am OP, and never said I do not have options. But not all grandparents are available 24/7. My folks work, and I would never ask them to take the day off without pay to watch my kids for jury duty. They are available nights and weekends and EMERGENCY situations.
No need to judge the type of parent I am. Geez. Civilized discussions are great, name calling not necessary.

Both of my parents left work immediately to watch kids when I had to take DH to emergency room. They are not going to leave work for my jury duty. Our teenage babysitters are in school during the day. My original point was that my baby will go without the therapy he receives for his physical disorders due to the fact that the facility we are using only sees the child with a parent present. I know it is possibly just one day, but it is also possibly weeks, which other posters also stated in their experiences. We have one income and like everyone else, we are watching every penny, so DH cannot take off work for this.

As I stated before I have served and will serve again when we are out of these therapy years. Thank you to those who responded reasonably--either in my favor or against. I appreciate the civility. Will fill you in next Monday when I report!

 

[hambirg]

I have only been called twice. I would love to have served, but the first time I had actually moved across state when I got the notice. I just had to call them and send proof of my new residence. The second time, was about 2 months after my youngest was born. I was nursing and had another toddler at home. I did go down (my mom watched the kids that morning) and I was excused almost immediately.

Now that I could actually serve I probably won't get called again. The other thing is I would never get picked for a jury anyway. My brother is a prosecutor in the county that I live in. Both of my parents have been called to duty, but never got picked because of that. It's not a given. . .but it's usually safe to assume no defense attorney will want to choose you.

 

[SoonerSarah]

I think the big difference here is that jury duty does not = an emergency. Sure, if a SAHM got very sick and had to be in the hospital or some other true emergency, I'm sure the working parent would stay home to care for the child, and go without pay, even if it hurts, and potentially lose the job at some point. While we hope this kind of thing doesn't happen often, I truly believe it shouldn't have to happen for a non-emergency like jury duty. Oh and kids are allowed in an emergency room where they are not allowed in a jury room apparently...

Exactly. I have a lot of poeple that could take care of my children in an emergency. If DH or I am rushed to the hospital, I might have to make a few calls before I'm able to get ahold of someone, but one of my friends would take off of work to come care for my children, once again, in an emergency.

My closest relative is 6 hours away. She is my MIL, and while she's in relatively good healthy, she does have physical and medical restrictions. It is most likely that should I have to serve on the jury, she would be able to come care for my children, but not for a long term situation. The next closest relative is 12 hours away and is somewhat disabled due to a car accident.

The one friend that is also a SAHM is also one that has 3 under the age of 3, two of whom are special needs twins. She can and will care for my girls, but it would only be for a few hours.

 

[SoonerSarah]

I also didn't realized that if you were nursing they would not let you pump for the 10-15 minutes it takes. Ouch!

There are courts and judges who absolutely do and will make allowances for a BFing mother who will serve, making sure that she is able to pump as needed and in a private place. But not all of them will, for whatever reason.

 

[Dr.Girlfriend]

That stinks.

I would just show up with my kids in tow since I am the babysitter, aka mom, for my kids if they told me I had to go.

I would not have my dh take the day off of work for me to go since he works FT & can work OT so we'd lose that OT income if he had to take the day off.

I would be calling every day, every hour until I got some answers.

Do NOT bring kids. When I was recently at jury duty it was basically said that you can be in contempt.

 

[soonerfan2008]

There are courts and judges who absolutely do and will make allowances for a BFing mother who will serve, making sure that she is able to pump as needed and in a private place. But not all of them will, for whatever reason.

I guess I'd be pumping underneath a nursing cover-up in the middle of court, then. There are federal laws in place that require workplaces to provide private pumping spaces for nursing mothers--why would the court be exempt?

 

[LoveBWVVBR]

I think the big difference here is that jury duty does not = an emergency. Sure, if a SAHM got very sick and had to be in the hospital or some other true emergency, I'm sure the working parent would stay home to care for the child, and go without pay, even if it hurts, and potentially lose the job at some point. While we hope this kind of thing doesn't happen often, I truly believe it shouldn't have to happen for a non-emergency like jury duty. Oh and kids are allowed in an emergency room where they are not allowed in a jury room apparently...

Exactly. In an emergency, either of my BFFs will do whatever they have to do to take my kids (and vice versa). Tomorrow one of their DD's is going in for surgery. In the afternoon I have her other 2 kids...we trade off like that when necessary. She wouldn't be taking off of work to watch my kids so that I could go to jury duty, though...SO not an emergency. If I were in the hospital, she'd take off in a heartbeat, though. Jury Duty is not an emergency.

 

[tlbwriter]

I think the big difference here is that jury duty does not = an emergency.

You're right, it's not. Look at it from the judge's point of view - you knew it was coming, you had time to prepare.

So, if you *do* have a backup plan, that means if you stand before a judge and say "I can't find childcare," you are going to be lying. You CAN find childcare. You choose not to. And the fact that you have very good, legitimate reasons for not using alternative childcare isn't going to matter to many judges. So why lie about it? Why pretend you have no options? Instead, I like the idea someone posted upthread about stating a financial hardship. Don't claim your husband can't take off work. Don't claim there isn't a single trustworthy babysitter in your town. Don't claim drop-in care doesn't exist. The judge is unlikely to believe you. Tell the truth and say "My husband can take off work to care for our child, but he doesn't get paid for that so it would be a severe financial hardship, and if it goes on for longer than a couple of days he might lose his job" or "I can get daycare for a week, but we have three kids at home and it would be a severe financial hardship to get last-minute care for all three of them."

 

[pixiewings71]

Over the years I was called to serve when I was either close to my due date, or right after giving birth (I have 3 kids) so I always got out of serving. I was a SAHM for 5 years once my youngest started school and never had to serve I would get the notice and was always excused once I called. I got a p/t job last Feb and by April i was called once again. This time I had to go.

All those years of dreading to go, I finally went and I was surprised that once I got there it was all very interesting and I actually look forward to serving!!

In this case we were there until 10:30 when the judge came in and said the case was dismissed and we were free to go!

I now do not have to serve for 3 years

T you're clear for 3 years? We only get a year break before we may be called again. DBF just served so he's clear for a year, it's been probably 3 years since I've even been called so I anticipate being called anytime now.
Here the first day of service (jury selection) is non-paid but after you do get something like $10 a day and mileage for 1 way. DBF's company pays him as well. He did serve on a 3 day jury a few years back, he was paid by the courts and by his employer. Here an employer can NOT fire someone for serving jury duty, if an employee is let go for that reason then s/he can sue the company.