Advice welcome dealing with son & his school ***HE'S BEEN MOVED!***

[Praying Colonel]

OP, your story sounds a lot like our situation with DS when he was in middle school. I convinced DW we should put him in a magnet traditional school. That was not his learning style, as I finally admitted after 2 1/2 years of pain trying to make the square peg fit the round hole.

The school paid lip service to working with John's needs, but ultimately the teachers just took the approach that they had 30 other kids in the class to deal with and it was their way or the highway.

We finally pulled him out and backed him up a year because he spent so much time and energy just trying to cope daily that he didn't learn that much his last year in that school. We home-schooled him for 3 years, then found a great private school that has a small teacher-student ratio and focuses on working with kids with different issues and learning styles.

I still kick myself over trying to force something to work that didn't work and the pain I put DS through. But he's doing great now and I'm glad we found something that works for him. So if I were giving any advice here, it would be to evaluate the situation objectively and don't be afraid to pull the ejection handle if you see the situation's not going to work at that school.

 

[teacups]

Hi everyone, I want to thank you all for encouragment, advice, opinions and constructive criticism - I truly appreciate every word.

We have not medicated him because I fear the long term effects on his brain have not been studied. I'm afraid of him being dependent on stimulants all of his life..what if we ween him off and he seeks other forms as a teen to cope? What if he's a zombie at school and the kids pick on him?

What is your experience before and after medicating please?

I can not tell you, but I'd like to ask... what will he seek as a teen becasue he was not treated? Sorry. I know that isnt what you want to hear, but I worry about that as well as what you mention above. I just dont have the answer to any of the meds Q's.

 

[Lorix2]

I can not tell you, but I'd like to ask... what will he seek as a teen becasue he was not treated? Sorry. I know that isnt what you want to hear, but I worry about that as well as what you mention above. I just dont have the answer to any of the meds Q's.

Wow - no, that is exactly what I need to hear. thank you for playing devil's advocate.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Sorry Lorix, but I believe you misunderstand... The SS teacher actually said this directly to the OP's son.

I got a call from my son 1.5 hours later after school and he told me that his ss teacher called him a "jerk" after we left ......
He said another boy heard her say it....

The other child is a valid witness.


To the OP: I know you must be just incensed and livid over this....
But, think about it... If moments after a parent teacher conference regarding the fact that these teachers might need to be more positive and respectful in how they are handling your son, the teacher turns right around and calls your son a jerk.... This is pretty huge...

You can't fight an avalanche with a teaspoon....
And, this teacher does not need to be your focus.

Take ownership of the situation.
Get your son into a better situation.

That includes a complete and thorough, outside non-biased) neuro-psych evaluation.

I really don't know for sure whether your son's biggest issue is the ADHD at this point. (it is a commonly jumped-to diagnosis with young boys). You might find out that the stimulant ADHD meds are not what is indicated.

I know this is all SO hard....

 

[torinsmom]

Hi everyone, I want to thank you all for encouragment, advice, opinions and constructive criticism - I truly appreciate every word.

We have not medicated him because I fear the long term effects on his brain have not been studied. I'm afraid of him being dependent on stimulants all of his life..what if we ween him off and he seeks other forms as a teen to cope? What if he's a zombie at school and the kids pick on him?

What is your experience before and after medicating please?

My son was not like a zombie on any of the three meds we tried. First he was on Concerta, but he had some chest pain and felt like he would pass out during soccer practice about 6 months into treatment, so that one was stopped.(He ended up being diagnosed with strep the next day, but the dr. did not want to assume the symptoms were unrelated to the med). Then he was on Adderall, but he didn't feel the urge to urinate, so that was over pretty quick. The last one he tried was Vyanase. It REALLY worked and helped his symptoms, but it is making his stomach hurt since he doesn't like to eat in the morning. We are trying to work that one out still.

I think most of these meds have been studied to death to see if they affect the brain long term, and it has been determined that they don't. Some may affect the rate of growth, but it seems that a child WILL reach their predetermined height, although maybe later in childhood than without drugs.

As far as seeking other ways to stimulate his brain, that will happen whether he is on meds now or not. I am NOT saying he will get into drugs; it could be video games, sports, etc.

Good luck! I hope you get some help. My son struggles academically, but thankfully, he has teachers who tell him they know he can do it and that he needs to keep trying.

Marsha

 

[dawson5]

I have three sons, one with ADD and the other with ADHD. We spoke with the doctors, teachers and counselors, did lots of reading and research before choosing medication. I can only say research and find the answers you are looking for. I found a study where they were taking "deep" cat scans (can't remember the exact terminology of it) of the brains of kids with ADD/ADHD and taking medication and found that it was helping long term. I went back to the doctor with what I read and he confirmed it. Kids with ADD/ADHD can outgrow it, some cannot. If I could find that again I will forward on to you.

Good luck.

 

[Disney Doll]

See bolded

I almost hate to say this because I can understand how you would feel about teachers disrespecting your son ("jerk" and such), but perhaps the time to pick at the nits and expecting others to solve the problem has ended. You are not going to be able to control what these teachers say or how they act and any attempt to do so will likely make the situation worse.

The mark of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results each time. This is a nasty thing to post. You should be ashamed of yourself.
Perhaps the time has come to take this issue out of the schools hands where you're not getting good results and seek outside tutoring such as Sylvan Learning Centers or other local tutors in addition to regular class time? It appears that your son is intelligent enough, he just needs to have someone else show him a different way of looking at math problems, social studies issues, etc.

Way to kick someone when they're down.

 

[LisaR]

Op,
You only mention the social studies and math class. How are the rest of his classes? Is he passing? Disrupting those classes? Understanding the material? How is he in the lunch room?

If he is doing well in all his other classes (no detention, passing grades, no outbursts) I would demand they switch teachers for SS and math and I wouldn't take no for an answer.

If he has issues in all his other classes, you need to take the bull by the horns. He has some problems. He needs medication, therapy, tutoring, etc. You have to find whatever ends up working for him. It might be one thing or a combination of tools that work but you have to find the solution and fast. He will only get further behind and the behavior will intensify.

 

[dismom2]

OP: What exactly did the teacher say when the "jerK' comment was made? Did she say, "you are a jerk", or something like, "when people (or you) ACT like a jerk, it disrupts the class? Either way, it's totally wrong, but I do think it's important to know exactly what was said, how it was said (contex), and what took place and was said before this comment. You have to have the whole picture.

I know that some teachers are better than others when it comes to being understanding and helpful, and I'm sorry if these two teachers are not this type. Again, look at the whole picture--- I don't know your son, but you admit he has behavior issues; it's possible that the teachers are sick and tired of dealing with his behavior---maybe it's very disruptive to the class and other students. Maybe nothing they have tried to stop it has worked, since he continues to 'act up', so they gave up on him (again, this may be wrong, but I'm just trying to figure this out).

I am a firm believer that some teachers just do not work for some kids. I had a teacher in the past who just assumed everyone could catch on quickly, and never took the time to fully explain anything to those who didn't quite understand the material. I've had other teachers who went out of their way to explain things several different ways, and their teaching methods and style made it easy for the whole class to easily understand (using visuals, exercises, games...). Personally, I think a good teacher will utilize several teaching techniques. Math is hard for a lot of people, and used to be for me, even though I got A's in every other subject. What I ended up doing, and still do in life for many things, is do a lot of my own research. I read a lot, look up things on the internet---there are even tons of online video's you can watch that teachers post; some are not so easy to understand, but there are a lot of really great ones. People explain things differently and you just have to find what clicks for your son.

So---I think you are going to have to take the time to help your own son---it may be your best bet. I've learned to rely on myself and it's the best thing I ever did for myself. I know what I need and I seek it out and find it. I also think you need to get him help for his behavioral problems. You have way more option in that department, as his parent, than anyone else. It is up to you to teach him how to behave, nobody else. And if you don't take care of the problem now, it will only get worse, and you'll always have problems no matter what school he goes to. My kids have had teachers they didn't like, but since they behaved well, they never had any personal issues with them---which definately helps. Think about it---what is leading the teachers to be so frustrated? Address the core of the issue, not the person who is frustrated and who's hands are tied. Help your son learn at home, and work on his behavior and see how the teachers act then. If they are still idiots, then I would get them out of their class. But, you have no way to know unless you handle those two things first--they seem to be the core of the problem. Good luck

 

[FayeW]

I can not tell you, but I'd like to ask... what will he seek as a teen becasue he was not treated? Sorry. I know that isnt what you want to hear, but I worry about that as well as what you mention above. I just dont have the answer to any of the meds Q's.

That is exactly the reason we chose to medicate our daughter. We were, and still are, concerned about the long term effects of taking ritalin or concerta, but before agreeing to the medication we did some research and the studies we read said that there was a higher instance of drug and/or alcohol abuse in children with ADHD who had NOT been medicated than those that were. The biggest factor in the drug abuse as teenagers and adults was that they suffered from low self esteem and looked to "self medicate" so they could cope.

We were seeing the self esteem issues already starting in our daughter at age 7. Every adult in her life, including us, reacted to her negatively. Teachers, neighbours, parents of her friends,etc yelled at her about her behaviour. We chose to medicate her to give her an opportunity to have positive interactions while she matures and learns some coping strategies. We have seen huge improvement in her behaviour, however, she has also been taking the medication since she was 7, and she will be 15 next month. She has made such progress in the last 6 months it is really unbelievable. Right now she is at a friend's house who literally lives across town, 30 mins away. She went on the city bus after school yesterday, by herself, and will return today the same way. Four months ago I would have laughed at anyone who suggested she would have the self confidence to be able to do that. Things that might not even be a blip on somebody else's radar are seen as milestones in our family.

I hope that we made the right choice. It is so hard to see your child struggling but as parents we can only do what we think is best. It is important to make informed decisions.

 

[disneydreamingdebby]

First, I am sorry. As a teacher, I am embarrassed by your son's teachers. I skimmed the other responses. Frankly, some offended me.

I do not agree that you are dropping the ball. I teach high school English including AP English, and sometimes I struggle with my daughter's 2nd grade homework. (The second grade teachers have "jelly bean" words and "elephant" words. It is a way to mark "talking vowels". If I didn't see her classwork paper to help me, I wouldn't have had a clue as to what she was talking about.)

The 504 works like an IEP; the accomodations must be followed by law. The difference and possibly the reason you might want to fight for an IEP is that you would have support staff to help your son during the school day. Special education teachers typically have patience and kindness. (Not that all teachers shouldn't, but these teachers usually have more.)

If your son can be moved to new classes, that could be the fresh start he needs. As difficult as this is, you mentioned that you are upset with your son. I think he is acting pretty age appropriately. Heck, he is confused;his teachers treat him rudely; his parents are upset. Love him and tell him you are trying to find the best way to help him.


Regardless of which teachers (old or new), I think to go from here you need to have another meeting. Possibly at this meeting you need to have the superintendent included. I would explain that you need the teachers to come prepared with the ways they are currently meeting the 504. (I don't know how the school feels about lawsuits - I am assuming that this is a public school. If it is, you have legal recourse to make them help your son. Not that you want to go here but...) You also want them to explain the redirecting cues that they use to help your son. (They might tap his paper lightly; they might stand next to him; they might place a note on his desk etc.) In other words, what are they doing to help your son BEFORE he acts out. Are they checking for undertanding as he is doing classwork?

Further, although it might be hard to take off from work, schedule the after school math help for both you and your son (or DH). This might be hard for your son to deal with, however. The teacher should be required to help after school - it should be common practice. I am required to be available to help students from 2:30-3:00 unless I have a meeting.

A plan of how the teachers will help your son needs to be cemented before you leave the meeting.

The teacher should be required to help your son get it. I think it sounds like the SS teacher (haha- pun not intended) thinks that your son doesn't care. And it this point, he probably doesn't. Kids will work really hard for teachers who show students that they care about them. The reverse is true too. Kids often can't understand that they are hurting themselves.

[In addition to dream students who live to learn - AP kids- I also teach kids who have no interest (and have difficulty reading) in reading early American lit - and with the exception of nerdy English teachers - who really does? I explain why I want them to read something - read for imagery - I try to make it enticing - "a baby is born through the armpit!!!" When they don't do it, I tell them I expect more from them. I find out why they didn't do it. I tell them they need to do their homework. I want them to do well; I know they can do well. This sounds really ridiculous, but it works for me. The fact that they know that I will stand on my head for them contributes greatly. (I haven't yet, but...)] I love my students - even the difficult ones.

It sounds to me that the teachers see "teaching" as important. They need to see student "learning" as important. (I can "teach" my cat to open the door; I can explain, demonstrate, etc. However, my cat didn't "learn" it.) Likewise, I can teach my class what a comma splice is; it doesn't mean that they "learned" it. I have to make them demonstrate it so that I know they learned it. I might ask them to write a sentence that includes a comma splice and tell them to give it to their neighbor to correct the comma splice. If a kid can't do it, he didn't learn it. It is my RESPONSIBILITY to find another way to explain it or to model it more so he can get it. Some kids need more time methods.

Hopefully, I have given you some sound advice to use (and restored some people's faith in teachers.) BTW, I teach in a high school that has not made adequate yearly progress on the state test for four years now with a large free and reduced lunch population. We are trying- the "teaching vs. learning" analogy is really a shift that is occuring in our school.

Good Luck, Debby

Please keep us updated.

 

[Christine]

Lorix2,

I'm not saying that medication is the "answer" for your son, but please try to do some more research on it. These medications have been studied for MANY years now and, in fact, I have an adult friend who requires it to function. Prior to using medication, he could not hold down a job, had serious esteem issues, and became an abuser of other prescription drugs and alcohol in an attempt to self-medicate. He has been on Ritalin for 10 years now and has no more substance issues because he can now function normally. He said that "if only they had this when I was a child." He is 57 years old.

There have been studies that indicate that people with ADHD and other disorders who do not get treatment (be it medication or therapy) are at a much higher risk for drug use than those who used medications and/or therapy to help them cope.

And to add one more anecdotal story. My coworker has a son (who is now 20 years old). He was diagosed with severe ADHD at around age 8. My coworker refused to medicate him because "it would ruin his chances of becoming a pilot." (Co-worker had been a military pilot). So they did nothing but put plans in place at the school and got some extra help. The self-esteem issues went out of control because of this boy's problems with school and social interactions with peers. At age 13, he stood up in the middle of the class and said "I'm going to kill myself." That got everyone's attention. They put him on meds, put him in an alternative learning situation, and over many years, this boy improved dramatically. I will say that I think my co-worker caused undue harm by not medicating him. To spend 5 years in that boy's hell was devastating to him and caused some secondary depression.

While I will agree that what this teacher said was WRONG on so many levels and the school is not doing their part, you probably need to realize that no one is going to fight for your child as hard as you and, overall, they don't care that much. In order to get them to do their part, YOU need to do your part and meet them halfway. Just getting a diagnosis is not good enough. You have not really said but it seems like you need to be providing your son with extra study intervention, counseling so he can cope with his problems in a classroom setting, and medication if appropriate. If you are not doing these things then you are expecting too much of the school.

 

[torinsmom]

I was trying to find a video clip of the episode of Supernanny where they visited a family with a 6 year old boy with severe ADHD. THe mom did not want to medicate him, and Jo did an "experiment" to show how her child feels every day. She had the mom sit on the couch with the tv on loudly in front of her. She put loud headphones on her and asked her to complete a questionnaire. Then she had the kids run in and out of the room, disturbing her. When Jo came back in 3-4 minutes to see if the form was done, the mom had barely started it. Jo explained that this is what it is like for many children with ADHD every day. The mom agreed to try meds after that.

The moral is that as non-ADD people, we have no idea how this disorder affects them everyday. Obviously medicating is a personal decision, but we do need to give our child some kind of help in managing this.

Marsha

 

[KirstenB]

Hi everyone, I want to thank you all for encouragment, advice, opinions and constructive criticism - I truly appreciate every word.

We have not medicated him because I fear the long term effects on his brain have not been studied. I'm afraid of him being dependent on stimulants all of his life..what if we ween him off and he seeks other forms as a teen to cope? What if he's a zombie at school and the kids pick on him?

What is your experience before and after medicating please?

Our dd takes Concerta for ADD. It leaves their system every day. DD has the option to not take it on the weekends or holidays. I swear to you she doesn't seem to have any adverse effects, like withdrawal, when she doesn't take it. It's a stimulant, so it doesn't make you a zombie, it just allows you to function like all the other kids.

 

[Mouse House Mama]

.

According to a child she called your child a jerk. While it probably is true I wouldn't bring that up since it was not your own son who heard the remark.

As a parent I understand your upset. Nobody wants their kid crying about school. It is heartbreaking. However, YOU need to set him up to succeed. The teacher cannot allow disruptive behavior. What about the other kids in the class? They are there to learn too.

QUOTE]

No, I'm sorry if I confused you. The teacher called my son a jerk to his face and my son said to this boy "did you hear that?" as if to say, can you believe it? the mother confirmed this with her son and says this teacher gets nasty with my son and others too.

You are right, the other kids have a right to learn without disruptions and they are doing well...so if they are doing well, what about my son? Why can't she take the time with my son and bring him up to the same level? I swear if she'd just take him aside and say "you're capable, I believe you can do this, now let me help you"...she'd be met with a much different attitude from him. I want my son to succeed and I know her job is hard enough, but she's already given up on him and feels it's our problem - period. They don't realize the negative impact their comments have on my son's willingness to comply and want to learn. Very frustrating.

I apologize. I misunderstood. There is no excuse for calling any child any name. So that I would take up with the administration.
As for taking your son aside to bring him up to level I see two sides to this. She cannot tutor him one on one during class. She has however given you the websites so that you can help him and offered other places where he might be able to catch up better. I don't think her attitude sounds very charming but I still think that you as a parent need to get whatever help your child needs. From what you have posted it seems like she feels it is your problem and you feel it is her problem. Both of you need to come up with a plan for anything to work. Good luck.

 

[Luv Bunnies]

Wow! OP - I could have written your first post 2 years ago and, in fact, I did! My son has Asperger's Syndrome and did pretty well in mainstream classes until the beginning of 6th grade. That's when he started having major problems in school. Math was a huge problem for him and his math teacher wouldn't accept any reason we gave for his behavior and anxiety in her class. She would yell at him the minute he got frustrated and his anxiety would escalate until she sent him to the office. It was awful for him and for us and I was so stressed trying to figure out how to deal with him and the school to make things better for him.

It sounds to me like your son needs some very specific accommodations in class. The way to achieve this is through an IEP. I would recommend contacting your district's special education department and requesting further evaluation and an IEP meeting. It might also help to take him to an outside psychologist to get him evaluated and give those reports to the school district. You have to show the district that he needs a more structured program with specific accommodations to do well in mainstream classes.

Does your school have a resource program that pulls kids out of class for extra help? Perhaps one of his accommodations should be that he is pulled out of math for one-on-one or small group resource help. He may do better in math if he's not in a large classroom environment while he's doing his work. And the resource people should be trained in special ed techniques that might help your son learn better. It should at least help him to be in a calmer atmosphere.

What you really need to do is think about what will help your son and be very specific about what you want added to his list of accommodations. Don't leave it up to the school district. In my experience, they offer as little as possible to save themselves money. It's sad but true, at least in our district. We researched specialized schools on our own and toured one that we loved. Then we hired a special ed attorney who negotiated a placement for our son in that school (at the district's expense). We were able to prove that the district couldn't meet our son's educational needs and they ended up agreeing to the private placement.

I doubt you'll have to go as far as we did, but I wanted to tell you how much is sometimes necessary on the part of the parents to get help for their kids. Good luck! You seem to be on top of things for your son and I'm sure you'll be able to work something out that will help him.

 

[IDoDis]

Medication should never be a first option, but perhaps it's time to give it a try since other options don't seem to be working. Medication alone won't solve his problems though. He probably needs a Function Behavioral Analysis (FBA), followed by a Behavior Intervention Plan (BIP) tied to his 504 plan. A solid plan that is followed in school and in the home, along with medication could do wonders for your son. If it doesn't work after a few weeks, stop the meds and you've lost nothing. If it works, you'll be wondering why you didn't try it years ago.

There's no excuse for what that teacher said to him, either. I'd consider sending him with a small recorder that can record for 4 hours. He can leave it in his coat pocket and it will pick up whatever is said in the classroom. I remember a couple of years ago a parent sent recorder in her child's backpack that picked up some mean things the teacher was saying to the child and the class. The story and the recording made national news.

 

[dicar123]

My son had a similar (but milder) problem in 4th grade. Up until then, teachers acknowledged that my son had trouble paying attention and struggled with the work, but he was a nice kid who was doing the best he could, so they treated him kindly. They hinted about medication and I begged them to address the learning trouble first. Neither of us would "give in".

The 4th grade teachers were absolute nightmares! My son was devastated, mostly because he just wasn't used to being treated that way. So, feeling like the worst parent in the universe, I put my son on medication. I HATED doing it because of them.

It got the teachers off his back, my son was happier going to school. His work gets done. His grades have stayed the same but he's no longer needing help from me, so that is improvement. He still isn't doing anywhere near the kind of work I think he can do.

Two years later, I am still conflicted about the medication, but my son is doing fine so I tell myself to knock it off. He only takes medication on school days and we have not had any bad side effects.

I know how hard these things are. I'm so sorry.

 

[quasar4legs]

No advice but thought you might like a koala cuddle from down under

 

[torinsmom]

Wow! OP - I could have written your first post 2 years ago and, in fact, I did! My son has Asperger's Syndrome and did pretty well in mainstream classes until the beginning of 6th grade. That's when he started having major problems in school. Math was a huge problem for him and his math teacher wouldn't accept any reason we gave for his behavior and anxiety in her class. She would yell at him the minute he got frustrated and his anxiety would escalate until she sent him to the office. It was awful for him and for us and I was so stressed trying to figure out how to deal with him and the school to make things better for him.

It sounds to me like your son needs some very specific accommodations in class. The way to achieve this is through an IEP. I would recommend contacting your district's special education department and requesting further evaluation and an IEP meeting. It might also help to take him to an outside psychologist to get him evaluated and give those reports to the school district. You have to show the district that he needs a more structured program with specific accommodations to do well in mainstream classes.

Does your school have a resource program that pulls kids out of class for extra help? Perhaps one of his accommodations should be that he is pulled out of math for one-on-one or small group resource help. He may do better in math if he's not in a large classroom environment while he's doing his work. And the resource people should be trained in special ed techniques that might help your son learn better. It should at least help him to be in a calmer atmosphere.

What you really need to do is think about what will help your son and be very specific about what you want added to his list of accommodations. Don't leave it up to the school district. In my experience, they offer as little as possible to save themselves money. It's sad but true, at least in our district. We researched specialized schools on our own and toured one that we loved. Then we hired a special ed attorney who negotiated a placement for our son in that school (at the district's expense). We were able to prove that the district couldn't meet our son's educational needs and they ended up agreeing to the private placement.

I doubt you'll have to go as far as we did, but I wanted to tell you how much is sometimes necessary on the part of the parents to get help for their kids. Good luck! You seem to be on top of things for your son and I'm sure you'll be able to work something out that will help him.

ITA with the bolded part especially. My DS had a terrible time in math at the beginning of 7th grade. He would just put his head down on his desk. The teacher said he was not trying, but the truth was he was overwhelmed. She went way too fast and taught as if every child learned at the same rate and in the same way. She even had the nerve to tell him he shouldn't have his mommy do his work for him in front of the whole class!(One of his accommodations was dictate to scribe because he has a writing disability. I would write the problems and answers for him, but he would do the work.)

Anyway, we finally had a meeting and the EC teacher suggested he do resource math with a small group. It was a great decision! This teacher took the time to figure out how DS learned best and went back a few lessons to catch him up. He always encouraged him and that gave him a lot of confidence.

OP, don't take no for an answer regarding more testing. As a teacher, I know even better than most that the school systems will stall and resist testing. I believe if a parent requests testing in writing, they have to at least consider testing within 45 days.

I would also recommend the book "Right brained children in a Left Brained World", by Jeffrey Reed. It really gave me insight into the positive aspects of a child who is said to have ADD.

Marsha