A question for Christians

[jimmiej]

What does this have to do with those who have never heard the gospel?

The Bible talks a lot about rejecting false Gods. I think many Christians don't take into consideration that we are not all worshiping different Gods.

My point was that the writer (Paul) believed salvation is through Jesus. However, those who don't know about Jesus have been given plenty of "proof" to at least believe in God, or a creator. I believe if they do, they will be saved from God's wrath, just like those in the OT.

Other than this one passage, I know of no other that speaks to this issue. Therefore, we have little to go on.

 

[bluefairy13]

My point was that the writer (Paul) believed salvation is through Jesus. However, those who don't know about Jesus have been given plenty of "proof" to at least believe in God, or a creator. I believe if they do, they will be saved from God's wrath, just like those in the OT.

Other than this one passage, I know of no other that speaks to this issue. Therefore, we have little to go on.

I guess we have to disagree that this speaks to the issue at all. At least not the question the poster has asked of you.

 

[salmoneous]

Romans 1

18The wrath of God is being revealed from heaven against all the godlessness and wickedness of men who suppress the truth by their wickedness, 19since what may be known about God is plain to them, because God has made it plain to them. 20For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse.

But what is Paul saying here? Throughout the opening chapters of Romans, Paul is laying the groundwork that all have sinned and fall short of God - both the Jew and the Gentile. To me, 1:18-20 isn't about people who haven't heard of Jesus, but about people who aren't aware of "the Law". The fact that they don't know the law is no excuse - they are still sinners and in need God's Grace. Go back and read the first few chapets of Romans (never a bad thing) and see if you don't agree...

 

[Fitswimmer]

I guess we have to disagree that this speaks to the issue at all. At least not the question the poster has asked of you.

I think that is the whole point. Personally, I don't think Jesus wanted us to be spending time on what's going to happen after life. Based on what I've read in the Gospels, he was more interested in how we lived our lives every day and how we treated one another. Remember that section where the mother of two disciples asked Him to seat them on His right and left? He turned that discussion around to how His followers were to humble themselves before others and be of service.

 

[jimmiej]

I think that in the end Jesus said it loud and clear:

"Do not judge so that you will not be judged. "For in the way you judge, you will be judged; and by your standard of measure, it will be measured to you. "Why do you look at the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me take the speck out of your eye,' and behold, the log is in your own eye? "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye. (Matthew 7:1-5)

In the end, man will not judge you.

44Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. 46I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

 

[dsnyscrapper]

He won't ask as my name is already written in the Lamb's Book of Life, and yes I am VERY sure of myself. By His saving grace, I will one day rejoice in Heaven with my Lord. As it is written in the Bible and many people have already stated, we are not worthy but God sent His Son to die for us so that we can spend enternity in Heaven with Him---all we have to do is ask Him into our hearts.

And to the person who asked on page three yes there will be only Christians in Heaven because to get to Heaven you have to BELIEVE in Jesus and the Son of the Lord and ask Him into your heart. By definition that is a Christian. Good deeds alone will not get you to Heaven and that isn't being judgemental; that is being Biblical.

 

[Fitswimmer]

In the end, man will not judge you.

44Then Jesus cried out, "When a man believes in me, he does not believe in me only, but in the one who sent me. 45When he looks at me, he sees the one who sent me. 46I have come into the world as a light, so that no one who believes in me should stay in darkness.

47"As for the person who hears my words but does not keep them, I do not judge him. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save it. 48There is a judge for the one who rejects me and does not accept my words; that very word which I spoke will condemn him at the last day. 49For I did not speak of my own accord, but the Father who sent me commanded me what to say and how to say it. 50I know that his command leads to eternal life. So whatever I say is just what the Father has told me to say."

If man will not judge in the end, then why the heck are so many "men" judging now? It clearly says in the bolded words above that JESUS is the one who will decide. WE have NO say. It is NOT up to US. It doesn't matter how many times we've read the Bible, how many Masses or Church services we've attended or anything else-WE have NO right to decide or even speculate on the decision that God will make over anyone else's salvation.
I know that I've got more than enough to keep me busy just following the Commandments of God-I don't have time to be looking around at other people and thnking about whether or not they're going to Heaven. I don't have time to be thinking about it for myself either, it's not my call.

 

[MAKmom]

I'd say because I've always been your favorite child

 

[crzyred]

I'd say because I've always been your favorite child

 

[flipflop]

He won't ask as my name is already written in the Lamb's Book of Life, and yes I am VERY sure of myself. By His saving grace, I will one day rejoice in Heaven with my Lord. As it is written in the Bible and many people have already stated, we are not worthy but God sent His Son to die for us so that we can spend enternity in Heaven with Him---all we have to do is ask Him into our hearts.

And to the person who asked on page three yes there will be only Christians in Heaven because to get to Heaven you have to BELIEVE in Jesus and the Son of the Lord and ask Him into your heart. By definition that is a Christian. Good deeds alone will not get you to Heaven and that isn't being judgemental; that is being Biblical.

I'm curious about this, as I have been told that as a Roman Catholic I will burn in hell for not being saved, will there be people from all secs of Christianity or just "Christians" (those who have been saved or "born again") in heaven?

I believe that the Bible is subject to interpretation - I'm not a strict constructionist.

 

[jimmiej]

I think that is the whole point. Personally, I don't think Jesus wanted us to be spending time on what's going to happen after life. Based on what I've read in the Gospels, he was more interested in how we lived our lives every day and how we treated one another. Remember that section where the mother of two disciples asked Him to seat them on His right and left? He turned that discussion around to how His followers were to humble themselves before others and be of service.

Well, yes & no. We are saved to do good works here & now. If we do, we will be rewarded in heaven in the afterlife.

Matthew 6

Treasures in Heaven

19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 5

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Well, yes & no. We are saved to do good works here & now. If we do, we will be rewarded in heaven in the afterlife.

Matthew 6

Treasures in Heaven

19"Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. 20But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also.

Matthew 5

11"Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

but is that really what you think about when you do things? I don't think about the afterlife at all most days...you've got me thinking about it more today then I probably have in my whole life!


As I've said-the whole decision is WAY above my pay grade.....

 

[jimmiej]

If man will not judge in the end, then why the heck are so many "men" judging now? It clearly says in the bolded words above that JESUS is the one who will decide. WE have NO say. It is NOT up to US. It doesn't matter how many times we've read the Bible, how many Masses or Church services we've attended or anything else-WE have NO right to decide or even speculate on the decision that God will make over anyone else's salvation.
I know that I've got more than enough to keep me busy just following the Commandments of God-I don't have time to be looking around at other people and thnking about whether or not they're going to Heaven. I don't have time to be thinking about it for myself either, it's not my call.

Jesus has already passed judgement:

John 14:6

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Anyone who claims to know what's in your heart is not worth your time. However, preaching the gospel is not judging. It's informing.

 

[jimmiej]

but is that really what you think about when you do things? I don't think about the afterlife at all most days...you've got me thinking about it more today then I probably have in my whole life!


As I've said-the whole decision is WAY above my pay grade.....

I think about it often! We talk about it in church, we sing about it...

My favorite Scripture is:

I Thess. 4

The Coming of the Lord
13Brothers, we do not want you to be ignorant about those who fall asleep, or to grieve like the rest of men, who have no hope. 14We believe that Jesus died and rose again and so we believe that God will bring with Jesus those who have fallen asleep in him. 15According to the Lord's own word, we tell you that we who are still alive, who are left till the coming of the Lord, will certainly not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. 18Therefore encourage each other with these words.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Jesus has already passed judgement:

John 14:6

6Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Anyone who claims to know what's in your heart is not worth your time. However, preaching the gospel is not judging. It's informing.

I've been preached to and preached at-and I'm sorry to disagree but it is judging. Any time a HUMAN being is telling someone else that they are definately going to Hell, that's a judgement. It's also giving power to Man that is reserved for God.

We know what is written in the Bible, but it is utter arrogance on our part to think that we know the mind of God.

 

[MzDiz]

But what about the people in the jungle? I'm not talking about the ones that ate the missionaries, I'm talking about the people who have never seen another person outside of their own village. Never saw a white man, never saw a Christian, never heard of god - what about them? Are they going to hell? If heaven is only for Christians, like some have stated, and everyone else is doomed because they didn't accept Christ, and GOD put these people on an island in the middle of nowhere, did God himself condemn them to hell?

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, honestly, but this is one of those key issues that turned me away from Christianity when I was young. Everyone barks at you that you're most definitely going to hell if you haven't accepted Jesus Christ as your savior, but have no idea what's going to happen to the people who've never heard of Jesus.

 

[cteddiesgirl]

I'd say ...
God, although I have never been baptised, and I have never professed belief in Jesus (although I believe in Him),
and I didn't attend Church for most of my life, I tried to live life without harm to anyone else and to help out others.
I loved my family and raised 2 children to be good adults.

Even though I never made my children go to church, they had the freedom to go to churchs of many faiths. I let them choose their own. I don't believe the bible is the true word of God, but of humans.

I ask to come in, believing you a loving God, who loves people of all faiths
and doesn't judge at all. Who sits on the Throne of Heaven, waiting for all the people of earth.

If you are this God, I'd like to come in.
If not, send me to the devil, I'd rather be there.

I've been preached to and preached at-and I'm sorry to disagree but it is judging. Any time a HUMAN being is telling someone else that they are definately going to Hell, that's a judgement. It's also giving power to Man that is reserved for God.

We know what is written in the Bible, but it is utter arrogance on our part to think that we know the mind of God.

Exactly.

Also, the bible was written by men. And the New Testament was written more than 50 years after Jesus' death by men who didn't even know Him.

I do not take the bible literally.

But what about the people in the jungle? I'm not talking about the ones that ate the missionaries, I'm talking about the people who have never seen another person outside of their own village. Never saw a white man, never saw a Christian, never heard of god - what about them? Are they going to hell? If heaven is only for Christians, like some have stated, and everyone else is doomed because they didn't accept Christ, and GOD put these people on an island in the middle of nowhere, did God himself condemn them to hell?

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, honestly, but this is one of those key issues that turned me away from Christianity when I was young. Everyone barks at you that you're most definitely going to hell if you haven't accepted Jesus Christ as your savior, but have no idea what's going to happen to the people who've never heard of Jesus.

This is a problem for some to answer.

As a person who considers herself a Christian, I believe all people end up in heaven. But, I've also been told by quite a few "Christians" that I'm going to hell.

Some believe that only the way they believe is correct and that all others end up down south.
As I was raised with the phrase "God loves everyone", I was brought up to believe that we are all His children. How many parents do you know who would condemn their own children to what is believed to be hell?

 

[flipflop]

But what about the people in the jungle? I'm not talking about the ones that ate the missionaries, I'm talking about the people who have never seen another person outside of their own village. Never saw a white man, never saw a Christian, never heard of god - what about them? Are they going to hell? If heaven is only for Christians, like some have stated, and everyone else is doomed because they didn't accept Christ, and GOD put these people on an island in the middle of nowhere, did God himself condemn them to hell?

I'm not trying to be inflammatory, honestly, but this is one of those key issues that turned me away from Christianity when I was young. Everyone barks at you that you're most definitely going to hell if you haven't accepted Jesus Christ as your savior, but have no idea what's going to happen to the people who've never heard of Jesus.

Not all secs of Christianity believe that you are going to hell b/c you have not accepted Christ as your saviour.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Not all secs of Christianity believe that you are going to hell b/c you have not accepted Christ as your saviour.

psst...then they're probably going to hell too....

 

[flipflop]

psst...then they're probably going to hell too....

Yes, I've heard about that position before---hence, my question on the previous page, which has gone unanswered.