A question for Christians

[JoeEpcotRocks]

Faith without works is dead. You can pray all you want for God to help the homeless but unless you go hand out sandwiches and clean clothes to the homeless, you cant eat a prayer.
You can pray all you want that God care for the sick, and it doesnt matter what kind of illness it is, unless you are the one giving care and comfort to the sick, prayers that they dont know about, do nothing.
Jesus died for me so IF I beleive in him and am grateful, it is my duty to represent his rightesness (not mine) to honor him by doing his work. Not judging and deciding who gets in , who deserves Gods mercy and grace. I personally have expereinced so many "Good Christians" who are so judgemental and mean and beleive it is their right that they judge:
Gays-If God works in mysterious ways, then it is no ones business how or why, but only to live by the Golden Rule.
the homeless-But for the Grace of God.... No one wants to end up homeless, and sometimes it just happens. I have personally seen good Christians judge and ignore homeless people because they felt it in thier righteousness to be intolorant of someones mistakes. And sometimes, life just doesnt work out the way you planned.
Other Religious believers- God works in infinate ways, Why did he make many animals rather than one? Why did he give us higher thinking above those animals? To have tolerance and embrace with love and tolerance those unlike us it to truly understand and accept the differences in us make us the same. We arent animals. We are special, not just some of us.
To be a good Christian should be hard. It should make us work hard everyday to accept others with tolerance and love , just like Jesus.
So, in answer to your question, why should I be accepted into Heaven?
Because I chose to take on the task of doing the work of Jesus , with out question to love my fellow man, not just some of them because Jesus died for me. Now, you can choose to not do the work, but dont claim that you are a Christian.
Faith without works is dead.Words are empty. Actions are everything.
IF you just talk the talk, why would you think you would go to heaven?

Yes, we should certainly do good works.

Salvation is not earned. Jesus paid the full price. We are righteous with God soley thru what Jesus did -- not self-righteous with God by what we do.

God does not work in mysterious ways; He works in Biblical ways.

 

[Corpsebride]

Yes, we should certainly do good works.

Salvation is not earned. Jesus paid the full price. We are righteous with God soley thru what Jesus did -- not self-righteous with God by what we do.

God does not work in mysterious ways; He works in Biblical ways.

Im not exactly sure what that means. If you could explain it in plain english that would be cool
No, salvation isnt earned. It is an agreement with you and God. I will accept JC into my heart and in return I will do the works of Jesus. That is how the true message gets across. And God does work in mysterious ways. He has all the answers. not us. But the equasion is simple. Do unto others... not do unto others when I feel like it, or if I think they deserve it. That is where mercy and tolerance comes in.We are not righteous with God. We arent on the same level as God. God is righteous, we only do righteous works in the NAME of God. We can not be righteous and be flawed at the same time. The joy is doing the righteous works. I think that is where most get hung up. They mistake thier egos for righteousness. THere is no humility in that. If one is a true believer, than the validation will come from the satisfaction of doing righteous works in our hearts. And dont get me wrong, there are days that I have less patience than other days, and there are days that I dont feel very loving. But in my heart, I try everyday to practice what I preach. And as a good Christian, I want to sleep at night living in the truth. He got nailed to a cross brutally to die a slow painfull scary death. the least I can do is be the very best representative I can. I am not righteous.

 

[Wishing on a star]

Well, we can try to explain it in plain English.. but 'grace' is the most difficult concept of all for many to understand.

We are saved thru grace, and not of works, that any man should boast..

It really is that simple...

We ARE saved thru grace.
We do not have to earn our salvation thru works.
Salvation is not an employment contract.

Christ did not say that 'all who do works will be rewarded with everlasting life...'
He said, "All who believe upon me, all who have faith, all who are born again, shall not perish, but have everlasting life."


All the good works that we could do in an entire lifetime of 24/7 days would not even come close to paying the price for our salvation. It would do nothing to change the fact that we are all (every one of us) mortal humans, and are sinners, falling short of the glory of God.

Now, don't get me wrong.. Nobody is discounting the importance or the value of good works. We should all do our best to live as Christ would have us live, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. (which can and should translate into good works...) But, when it comes to salvation, it is not a part of the contract. IMHO, salvation is not a contract, but a covenant.. a promise.

It is not about works... It is about our mortal shortcomings, our sin nature, our humbling ourselves before Christ as our creator and our savior and accepting his gift, that we are saved thru His grace, and His grace alone.

 

[Saxsoon]

Wow... And the fact is that we are actually NOT to be judging others.. That is GOD's place. We are in no way qualified whatsoever. This is, in fact, the biggest part of our sin-nature... Thinking that we know right from wrong, thinking of ourselves as Gods... Anyone who supposes to think that they can make any determination about whether another person is going to 'Hell' should know, as a Christian, that they are commiting the most serious of sins.

About Hell... IMHO, there is no such thing as the recent post-modern notion of hell fire. The wages of sin is, very simply... death... The word hell in the scriptures is in most all cases a form of the word for 'the grave'... 'death'.

The Bible tells very specifically about the creation and existance of the heavens and the earth.. From genesis, through revelations... "and I saw a new heaven and a new earth". There is never any specific mention of hell.

It is either death or eternal life... It is not the will of God that any man should 'perish'. (again, the word perish, or die and cease to exhist.. not burn in hell fire forever...)

Many christians and christian denominations do not believe in Hell... It really is a relatively new, post modern, post Dante, concept... Just another example of MAN taking some words from the scripture and focusing on them, and interpreting them to meet their own limited and mortal flawed objectives.

I agree with you.... based on our experience of life here on earth, everlasting life is no great prize!!!! It is the opportunity to be reborn and be one with God that is what is at stake here. Everlasting life is NOTHING without GOD.

Hate to be a party pooper, but the weeping and gnashing of teeth that Christ mentioned numerous times in his parables and the lake of fire mean non-existence?

 

[MzDiz]

If we just rotted in the earth when we died, I would still be a Christian.

That's a really beautiful thought. If you don't mind an atheist saying so.

 

[Corpsebride]

Well, we can try to explain it in plain English.. but 'grace' is the most difficult concept of all for many to understand.

We are saved thru grace, and not of works, that any man should boast..<I disagree, only because I see so many boast of having grace and doing nothing but judge and harm. you cant do Gods work and be mean and judgemental at the same time.

It really is that simple...

We ARE saved thru grace.< I agree that we are saved through grace. But that doesnt mean we can skate through life talking the talk and that is it.
We do not have to earn our salvation thru works.<I do think we do have to earn it. it is an agreement. What would be the point of becoming a Christian if we didnt change how we are and try to become better people in the eyes of God? I could be a Christian and be the worst possible person in the world and that makes me the same as the best? I dont think so.
Salvation is not an employment contract.

All the good works that we could do in an entire lifetime of 24/7 days would not even come close to paying the price for our salvation. It would do nothing to change the fact that we are all (every one of us) mortal humans, and are sinners, falling short of the glory of God.>That is my point. We do the righteous acts of God because we are Christians , not because of anything else. It isnt a debt to be paid back but an agreement because that is what we are. Its like being from the same family. I dont have to earn being my sisters sister. But I am her sister because we are in the same family.

Now, don't get me wrong.. Nobody is discounting the importance or the value of good works. We should all do our best to live as Christ would have us live, and to love our neighbors as ourselves. (which can and should translate into good works...) But, when it comes to salvation, it is not a part of the contract. IMHO, salvation is not a contract, but a covenant.. a promise.> a promise. an agreement. That is what I am saying.


It is not about works... It is about our mortal shortcomings, our sin nature, our humbling ourselves before Christ as our creator and our savior and accepting his gift, that we are saved thru His grace, and His grace alone.

< It , to me is about works.Of course we arent perfect that is why and how we arent Righteous. We cant be. But our actions can be. I cant live everyday in the moment , I am sinner. etc. I know that. That is why Jesus dying for my sins is the reason I do the righteous works in his name to get salvation. And doing the righteous works in the name of Jesus no matter what with humility before Christ is to me being a Christian.
Jesus died for me to wash away my sins. I think that is good. I become a Christian. In my promise/agreement, I humbly do righteous works like Jesus. I can not be righteous, but my works can because I am a Christian. It is what we do. To me it is different than what you believe. But, it is also my personal experience between me and God. Just like yours is yours, between you and God.

 

[jimmiej]

Jimmie,

What church do you attend?

http://www.oakwoodbaptist.org/

< It , to me is about works.Of course we arent perfect that is why and how we arent Righteous. We cant be. But our actions can be. I cant live everyday in the moment , I am sinner. etc. I know that. That is why Jesus dying for my sins is the reason I do the righteous works in his name to get salvation. And doing the righteous works in the name of Jesus no matter what with humility before Christ is to me being a Christian.
Jesus died for me to wash away my sins. I think that is good. I become a Christian. In my promise/agreement, I humbly do righteous works like Jesus. I can not be righteous, but my works can because I am a Christian. It is what we do. To me it is different than what you believe. But, it is also my personal experience between me and God. Just like yours is yours, between you and God.

We are made righteous in God's eyes by the blood of Christ...period. When God looks at believers, He doesn't see our sin. The Bible says:

Psalm 103

12 as far as the east is from the west,
so far has he removed our transgressions from us.

Our works (post-salvation) is what our rewards will be based on.

You may be saying basically that. I'm not sure.

 

[jimmiej]

About Hell... IMHO, there is no such thing as the recent post-modern notion of hell fire. The wages of sin is, very simply... death... The word hell in the scriptures is in most all cases a form of the word for 'the grave'... 'death'.

The Bible tells very specifically about the creation and existance of the heavens and the earth.. From genesis, through revelations... "and I saw a new heaven and a new earth". There is never any specific mention of hell.

It is either death or eternal life... It is not the will of God that any man should 'perish'. (again, the word perish, or die and cease to exhist.. not burn in hell fire forever...)

Many christians and christian denominations do not believe in Hell... It really is a relatively new, post modern, post Dante, concept... Just another example of MAN taking some words from the scripture and focusing on them, and interpreting them to meet their own limited and mortal flawed objectives.

The Bible is full of references to Hell being a real place. Jesus spoke of it many times. One I found interesting:

2 Peter 2

4For if God messengers who sinned did not spare, but with chains of thick gloom, having cast [them] down to Tartarus, did deliver [them] to judgment, having been reserved,

Tartarus refers to a deep, gloomy place, a pit or abyss used as a dungeon of torment and suffering that resides within Hades or the entire underworld with Tartarus being the hellish component.