A little hurricane grievance/evacuations education/ Katrina timeline.

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Something that caught my eye in the original post...and I also remember the mayor saying this on Sunday morning.

Why can't the mayor order a mandatory evacution in a situation like this without a court order? I live way up north, we never have evacs. Is this a law everywhere? I heard him say that legally he couldn't order an evacuation and that surprised me. I thought the Mayor or Governor would be the ones that could legally order a mandatory evac.

I'm wondering the same thing.

I don't know how it could not be within his power.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Honestly, I don't see why. I watch a wee bit too much of the Discovery Channel and I saw a program on Hawaii's tsnaumi system. They can evacuate the entire coastline in less than 3 hours, I believe.

Impressive.

 

[Talking Hands]

What Lisa has explained absolutely true. We really don't know what is going to happen until about 48 hours prior to the storm and even with that the storm can go anywhere within the cone. On the news we were told that Katrina would probably make landfall on the Broward-Palm Beach county line and then head north-northwest across the state. Instead it hit at the Dade- Broward county line and went south-southwest. Completely opposite what was predicted. Why was there a good deal of damage in my area. Because people didn't prepare. The listened to the predictions and ignored the cone. The Keys were not even in the cone but were also hit. They never evacuate the Keys for TS conditions but do for hurricane conditions. They had no warning for this hurricane because they never put up hurricane warnings for them plus evacuating would bring them right up into the hurricane conditions. They had to ride it out. My husband did put up the shutters, we have had our supplies for months, and we were prepared. We didn't have any damage! We could have if the windows had not been shuttered. Our neighbors did.
Also government officials are hesitant to order evacuation too early and have people evacuate only to find it was a false alarm. When it happens too many times people start to ignore the mandatory evacuation orders. We have seen this in the Florida Keys frequently. It takes at least 3 days to evacuate everyone in the Florida Keys. They now do a phased evacuation. First day (72 hours in advance) they require all tourists to leave and all hotels close to tourists. They must leave. People start to prepare, then at 48 hours they tell the residents to start leaving. But even in a mannditory evacuation you can't force people to leave and some stay. It is their decision in the final analysis. And in some situations those in Key West are actually better off staying because it is high ground. The rest of the Keys can be flooded in a Cat 1 storm. BTW there is only one road in and out of the Keys until they get up to Key Largo and then there are 2 for a short while and it merges back to one.
People (all people, rich, poor, disabled, black, Hispanic, Anglos) are ultimately responsible for themselves and their own decisions on evacuation. Anyone in a hurricane prone area needs a plan in place to get out.
Also in Andrew it was predicted to turn north-northwest and hit the same area Katrina hit. Evacuations were required for the Miami Beach area and many evacuated to friends in South Dade and Kendall. Instead Andrew came directly west and didn't turn and hit from Florida City to Kendall. They ended up in the direct path of a Cat 5 storm. Our good luck was that Andrew was a realitively dry storm and moved over the area quickly so flooding was at a minimum. We had wind damage. We saw homes that looked like doll houses with the front completely gone. Others flattened. Flooding on the coast. The Burger King building had flooding and all its windows blown out. But those with shutters actually faired pretty well if they had CBS constructed homes. My house has weathered a Cat 1 and a Cat 5 and has stood. As long as we stay in this area we will remain in this house as it has proved itself to be safe.

 

[BuckNaked]

It is a good idea--but a hurricanes location can really screw all that up and the plan....probably would not work.

Well, NOLA apparently thinks it would be feasible, because that was part of their proposed plan prior to Katrina.

Why can't the mayor order a mandatory evacution in a situation like this without a court order?

I don't know about a mayor, but I'm pretty sure that a governor can order an evacuation with or without any kind of court order.

 

[mum4jenn]

Well I realize that Albany GA does not have as many people as NO but when the flood was going on we were originally given about 12 hours to evacuate. I think they were giving us until something like 2 pm on "the day" and then when they saw it was getting much worse and that some dams were going to give way police and firetrucks went through the neighborhoods at 3:30 am with sirens and loudspeakers telling people the mandatory evacuation was in effect and we had to get out immediately. The racial make-up is very similar to that of NO as well as the economic aspect. Most people got out (all the bridges were CLOSED so people had limited areas to go to) but yes there were the fools that refused and most of those drowned in their homes and attics. It just seems that NO could have done something using loudspeakers in the neighborhoods. NO there was not time to get out of the city but there would have been time for most to get to higher ground. I know there will always be those that decide to stay where they are as the same thing happened here. Also the water rose so fast some still were caught in it even they were trying to get out. The ones on the east side of the river had no access to any hospitals or doctors for days until the army helicopters arrived and had to land in a shopping center parking lot to take the sick and injured to the hospital. I remember FEMA response being slow then too but at least people had access to food and water almost immediately.

And before the resident experts jump on my comments I have already said I know that the population numbers are quite different. There is no way to compare trying to get 100,000 people out vs. getting a million or more out but it just seems more could have been done. I also know that is is impossible to pinpoint exactly where the hurricane is going to hit but don't you think they could have positioned troops 200-300 miles away from the general area and then no matter where it hit they would have been a bit closer?? You know like maybe the middle of Alabama or something and then they would have been closer and able to get in there to give out food and water sooner.

 

[MinnieM3]

As someone who has lived in "Hurricane territory" my entire life, one thing I've learned is that it's better to be prepared than be caught unprepared. I know anytime there's a storm brewing off the coast of Africa, my family always takes the proper steps necessary.

Waiting until a Hurricane Warning is issued is just plain stupid, no matter how you slice it. If a hurricane enters the Gulf, there's a damn good chance it will hit Louisiana. If you live in Louisiana on the coast, you always have to think that way. If you live in Florida on the coast, same thing. You just have to always be prepared.

There are thousands of buses in New Orleans. Seems to me someone should have started making contingency plans very early on, in the event that the hurricane comes their way. But no, they waited until a hurricane watch was issued, then a hurricane warning. By then, it's too late. Bridges have to close for safety reasons, and New Orleans is an island when its bridges are closed.

Scientists have been predicting this for years and right now, as cruel as it sounds, there are some that are saying "Told you so."

I place the blame squarely on the shoulders of the people who chose to wait until the last minute. If you're disabled, start making plans. If you're poor, go to your city hall and find out what means they are taking to get you out of the city. Don't try to ride it out. If you do, guess what, you might get stranded on the island of New Orleans until water recedes enough for trucks/buses to enter the area.

Seems to me like it's just common sense.

If you lived near a volcano, would you wait until you saw lava flowing to abandon your house? If you lived near a forest, would you wait until the fire is a couple of trees away before you leave?

The answer is no. And no matter what people say, I know you can't predict a hurricane's path, but you can sure well prepare for it in the event that it comes your way. If you don't that's your fault and nobody else's.

People pretty much DID have a major clue as to what was going on for a minimum of two FULL days to take action. You can get prepared in 48 hours, at least to some degree. two days is a lot of time! HOWEVER, much of the planning part for a hurricane is also mental..... if you've NEVER thought it all through, you'd be lost. you have to at LEAST have the plan in your head if you live in a hurricane prone area.

I don't think there was a great plan in place. I think it could have been handled better with a sronger, more forceful leader. But that's just my opinion.

 

[MinnieM3]

Also, can anyone remember what the evacuation total was for Floyd? I know it was a lot, but just can't remember. not trying to make a comparison, just more of a curiosity question.

 

[lillygator]

mandatory evactuations can be issed - but I am not sure what level - sorry!!

...we have been under several here in Sarasota county before - they come by in police trucks announcing it by foghorns for those who may not be watching the news.

What "mandatory" means is (or what I take it to mean!!) that if you choose not to evacuate, when you call 911 for help they will not subject their workers lives to come and rescue you.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Also, can anyone remember what the evacuation total was for Floyd? I know it was a lot, but just can't remember. not trying to make a comparison, just more of a curiosity question.

http://www.cnn.com/WEATHER/9909/14/floyd.07/
completed article of this evacuation debacle....(which was not repeated during the summer of 2004).

Bumper-to-bumper interstates

Mandatory evacuations of more than 2 million people were ordered from Florida City to Savannah, Georgia, and up along the South Carolina coast.

In Florida, 1.3 million people in the counties of Dade, Broward, Indian River, St. Lucie, Martin, Palm Beach, Volusia, Flagler, St. Johns, Duval and Nassau were evacuated.

In Georgia, evacuation orders affected 500,000 people in the counties of Bryan, Chatham, Effingham, Liberty, McIntosh, Camden and Glynn.


A satellite image of Hurricane Floyd over the Bahamas

And in South Carolina, 800,000 people, including 165,000 tourists, were affected by evacuation orders in Jasper, Beaufort, Hampton, Colleton, Charleston, Berkeley, Dorchester, Georgetown and Horry counties.

Tens of thousands of cars packed Interstate 95, Interstate 75, Interstate 10 and the Florida Turnpike as Floridians and escaping tourists hit the roads.

All major chain hotels from Tallahassee, Florida, across the Panhandle to the Alabama border, a stretch of roughly 200 miles, were booked. The drive from Jacksonville to Tallahassee, about 160 miles, was taking drivers five and a half to six hours.

"All the major arteries here in Florida are pretty much bumper to bumper," said Liz Hirst, a spokeswoman for Florida Emergency Operations. "Everything is slow going."

Toll road traffic from Orlando, Florida, to Interstate 4 headed toward Tampa, Florida, moved no faster than 6 mph as motorists traveling with dogs, cats and other pets chatted amiably with each other through open windows.

"It's taken us one hour to go four miles," a native Floridian evacuated from Ponte Vedra Beach near Jacksonville complained to a friend at CNN via cell phone in her car with two children and a passel of pets.

Most airline flights in and out of South Florida were canceled. At Miami International Airport, many disheveled tourists were facing a second night Tuesday of sleeping on the floor. Many were angry and uncertain about their next move.

"It's absolutely appalling. There was no information," said Dolores Pearson of Ireland, who missed a connection to London and spent Monday night in the airport. "Nobody cared we were stuck. It was complete chaos."

The hundreds of thousands of evacuees fleeing the Georgia and South Carolina coasts included 8,000 Marine Corps recruits and 1,000 support personnel ordered out of boot camp at Parris Island, South Carolina.

Their commander, Brig. Gen. Stephen Cheney, said "I'm not going to take any chances with the lives of our young men and women who are down here for recruit training." He said that if the storm hits, he'll offer his recruits to help in cleanup operations.

About 64,000 people already were in emergency shelters in Florida, according to James Lee Witt, director of FEMA.

 

[4mykids]

I haven't been able to view the boards since Katrina. And, just a disclaimer: I did not read every reply to this message. Also, I am not in New Orleans; I am in Biloxi, Mississippi, so I do know a little about hurricanes.

Just a few thoughts:

After seeing the devastation of Camille in 1969, we never, EVER stay for a hurricane. I don't care if it is a Cat. 1 or 5. Too many tornados for my liking! We stayed glued to the TV when those puppies enter the Gulf. Using the projection models, we make the best decision we can. We board up, gather the kids, my mom, and the dog, get our pictures and get out! Each time we pray it will just be a "mini vacation", which it usually is. We do not wait for an evacuation order.

As for the poor people of New Orleans. I watched some of them on TV prior to the storm. One single mom with no car, a small child, and no money. My heart went out to her. She was staying. My initial reaction. Yes, you do have a way out. Look down at your feet and start walking. I know that sounds harsh and, yes, I have been to N.O. MANY times being only 80 miles away. There are bridges out of that city. Walk across one and go to a shelter out of the "bowl" that NO sits in. As many of you saw on TV, after the storm people were walking out.

As for the evacuation plan for NO: It is stated in the city's plan to use buses (municipal and school) to get the people out. And, who in their right minds takes evacuees to the Superdome that is still in the flood zone? I did not understand that when it first started happening.

As for the comments about the people of MS, LA, and AL not evacuating: You are right. They should have. But all of the media attention was on New Orleans. We heard very little about our area before or after the storm. And hurricane Camille killed more people on August 29, 2005 than she did in 1969 as everyone used her as a benchmark. I am sure years from now Katrina will kill again as people will say, "My house did not get water during Katrina, so it is safe."

Bottom line: You cannot blame the feds. It is up to the local and state gov't to get people out and for immediate response after the storm. Scratch that. It is up to individuals to get themselves out one way or another.

I am prouder than I will ever be able to say to be from the beautiful Mississippi Gulf Coast! Our people have shown dignity and courage after this horrific, unprecedented storm. And, even though, our scenery is scarred, our people are still as wonderful as ever!

Watch us rebuild and grow!

Thanks to all who have opened their hearts and/or wallets! We truly appreciate you!