A little hurricane grievance/evacuations education/ Katrina timeline.

[BuckNaked]

I'm fed up with people not having any compassion and not looking outside their safe little world. Just because Bush declared an emergency and called for an evacuation doesn't mean the poor had the money and vehicles to leave. Let's see - if you have no money, no car, and no way out of town - how are you supposed to evacuate? These people are below poverty level.

My point exactly!!! The mayor of NOLA told people to evacuate, but made little or not attempt to help those that had no means to leave.

 

[snoopy]

If the officials in NOLA and LA are going to throw up their hands and say "There is no way everyone can get out and there is no way we can safely shelter them in the city", then I think they should give serious consideration to not rebuilding the city as it was. To me, it is totally unacceptable to write off 100,000 citizens in a city because "it's just too hard" to help them get out or protect them if they have to stay.

NOLA faces unique dangers in the face of hurricanes, and there has to be some creative solutions about how to handle those dangers in the future.

This seems so cut and dried to me. I absolutely agree. I understand people have an attachment to their hometown and that NOLA is a place of such historical signficance, but it just seems nuts to rebuild and chance a disaster like this one again unless they can guarantee a much better plan.

 

[cajunmommy]

Just an FYI about the Dome being used as a shelter....Heard on the radio, probably Sat or Sun, as the evacuations were being discussed that the Dome was NOT to be a shelter. This was from someone in facility management with the Dome. He was warning people not to come despite it being used as an evacuation site last year. If it were to be used as an shelter of last resort, it was probably going to be a "swim-up option".

If Dome management knew this, there were probably no emergency provisions stocked inside. I'm guessing the only rations available were that left in storage by the on-site catering people.

Lisa, thanks for trying to shine some light on this for those who truly have no idea what's going on in this area. Seeing the arm-chair quarterbacking, even from folks here, is quite frustrating. I only hope we can learn from this expensive lesson and rise like a phoenix from the ashes.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

If they evacuated the entire city, who would drive the buses to evacuate the ones that don't have transporation? Since were only talking about 48 hours at the most, wouldn't the drivers be gone? (I'm not trying to be smart, just a question)

They had drivers--they were bussing people to the Superdome.

During a hurricane--city staff/essential services...employees cannot evacuate unless specifically told to do so. They find other arrangements for their family if their family needs to leave.

In my county---some employees were permitted to evacuate if they needed to--but had to be back in a specific amount time. Several got fired for not coming back in time. Some argued successfully to get their jobs back due to the return traffic and gas shortage but others did not. Came down to they knew their job duties and their evacuation plan should have had that in consideration.

So I have no doubt if such a Herculean effort were in place--they would have had the staff to drive these "rescue" busses that everyone thinks would have saved the day and more lives if people were removed from town. But we would not have had an empty city b/c there is no time to go door to door to 350,000 residences and arm wrestle them out. That would be visiting 121 homes per minute in the area or over 7200 per hour.

10,000 people went to pickup points---Not the 100,000 of those deemed unable to leave on their own due to physical or logistical issues.

 

[momof2inPA]

The failure of the feds this time was in not telling state and local officials to get the hell out of the way and federalize the entire effort. Following the procedures that are in place require state and local governments to let the government know what they need, and it's obvious that those officials didn't have a clue.

The day after the hurricane, the governor and a senator from Louisiana were on tv for a press conference, and every answer to a question, was that FEMA was on the scene and FEMA would solve their problems. They were not only NOT in the way of the federal effort, they were solely dependent on their organization and leadership. You can blame the lack of local plans and organization before the hurricane, but after if hit, FEMA should have established command and control and handled the entire evacuation and rescue effort. They did not-- or they did a horrible job of it. The Coast Guard did a lovely job of rescuing people from roof tops, but FEMA whose job, day in and day out, is to plan for and execute in emergency situations was AWFUL. Really, heads should roll and the entire agency should be re-examined, but our federal government owes the people of this country a better system.

 

[peachgirl]

Even if the money had been available, it was a plan that wasn't planned to be completed for more than 10 years. I highly doubt it would have made any difference in this case. But nice try.

Actually, if I had been trying to put in a little zinger, I would have noted that President Bush was the one who cut the funding. I didn't include that because I wasn't trying to get in a jab.

I realize it would not have helped for this disaster, but it would for ones in the future and that's what we were talking about. Nice try, though.

However--there is no way logistically--to empty 1 million people out in 48 hours.

I agree with you. As I understand it, we're talking about 1.4 million people or so, not just the citizens inside the New Orleans city limits. Not all of them can be evacuated, no matter how good the plan. Better shelters can be built and transportation plans to get them there can be improved. That's going to cost money and a lot of it and the American taxpayer has never been willing to pay for prevention.

The failure of the feds this time was in not telling state and local officials to get the hell out of the way and federalize the entire effort

Agreed, but the state and locals are out of the way now and the feds still can't get it done. I think enough time has passed now that we can begin to hold the feds responsible for the miserable job they are doing with the rescue effort.

 

[lillygator]

OP - great post...


and I have to wonder too...what resposibilities do we, as hurricane prone residents have? I mean, it does not matter how poor or rich I am, I think it is my responsibilty to my family and myself to plan ahead for these types of situations.


The news coverage is heartwrenching and brings me to tears...I can't stand to watch it. I do think that everyone wants to point fingers at everyone else, and the new "twists" of why they haven't gotten people help sooner is just disgusting but something that would be totally expected to be said.

I just hope that everyone gets the help they need and it will be a long time rebuilding...Port Charlotte and that areas (I was there last weekend) still - a year later- has a while to go.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I've been wondering this the last couple days.......

Does anyone know if the Superdome was part of a comprehensive evacuation/hurricane plan beforehand or just somewhere they told people to go because they didn't know what else to do? -- Just wondering.

Yes it is. It has been used before.

 

[Duckfan-in-Chicago]

I think they should contribute, but a city doesn't have nearly the kinds of resources they would need for extensive improvements in the levee system or the money it would cost to improve evacuation plans.

If I were the mayor of NOLA for the past 10 years I would have put a few dollar tax on every hotel room, rental car, flight out of the city, and boat docked at the port for a fund specifically into a fund for this purpose. It wouldn't cost the poor in the city anything and would have raised hundreds of millions of dollars. The tourists would barely notice it. You could even add a few cents to each drink on Burbon St.

 

[bgirldeb]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050902/ts_nm/weather_katrina_criticism_dc


Does this article from a 2004 National Geographic Magazine sound familiar?
http://www3.nationalgeographic.com/ngm/0410/feature5/

 

[mum4jenn]

I so agree...my town was DESTROYED in 1994 by the "great flood"....the Ocmulgee decided to be difficult! Hurrican Floyd also affected us. I too am tired of it.

My family went through that flood too!! We lived in Albany GA at the time and we lived near the Flint River. We got 8 feet of water in our house. I understand also how it feels. Watching all of this is so so sad and it does bring back 11 year old memories.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I agree with you. As I understand it, we're talking about 1.4 million people or so, not just the citizens inside the New Orleans city limits.

Not to mention those on the coast of AL and MS who had just as much a hand in clogging I-10 for the evacuation route. I don't know the populations---but I-10 was a MAJORLY stressed highway...I am sure in this evacuation process.

This is millions of people.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

Does this article from a 2004 Natio...m/20050902/ts_nm/weather_katrina_criticism_dc

The discussion and my point isn't an IF this would happen scenario...it is WHICH hurricane would cause this and how much time do you really have.

Hurricane was NOT a threat until Friday evening. Until then--We could have just as well been evacuating the Texas coast and all of the gulf coast.

You don't prepare for storms by doing "the sky is falling routine"--it stresses resources, causes havoc and fills road space with people who shouldn't be on the roads---instead of saving the roadspace for those who need to be on the roads.


We know very well--and noone is saying that a hurricane was NEVER going to cause this to the city. Just didn't know that Katrina was the one that "could" cause this--until Friday not.

And the levees--there is no dispute. But rebuilding them is not part of an evacuation plan and is an entirely different discussion all together.

 

[bgirldeb]

I guess my frustration is that it didn't seem like NO had much of a "Plan" at all. I know from living in FL that throughout hurricane season you can pick up hurricane preparation material for free from many local stores that tells you what to keep on hand throughout the season and what to do if there is a hurricane. They also have specific zones and routes and evacuate people in an organized manner. I would think a large city like NO with so many below the poverty level would at least have a plan to get the ones living in the most dangerous zones first, and then the next dangerous zone, etc.

oops- I added the NG article to my post, but deleted the other one... fixing it now

 

[padams]

When I was watching the evacuation process on the news the day before the huricane hit, I noticed that the interstate being shown clogged with traffic had only traffic in the "outbound lanes". The "inbound" lanes of the interstate were empty. In Georgia, the hurricane evacuation process provides that the interstates are switched to all outbound rather than 2 way, to get more traffic out faster. Was the news video footage I saw correct, did NO not open all lanes of I-10 in both directions to outbound traffic?

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

I guess my frustration is that it didn't seem like NO had much of a "Plan" at all.

I know--it seems like it...but they had one. They had zoned removal --they had contraflow (opening all lanes to flow in one direction instead of two--out of the city).


I watched the whole thing LIVE as it was happening.

When I was watching the evacuation process on the news the day before the huricane hit, I noticed that the interstate being shown clogged with traffic had only traffic in the "outbound lanes". The "inbound" lanes of the interstate were empty. In Georgia, the hurricane evacuation process provides that the interstates are switched to all outbound rather than 2 way, to get more traffic out faster. Was the news video footage I saw correct, did NO not open all lanes of I-10 in both directions to outbound traffic?

I was confused b/c I only saw one side with cars as well---but these were traffic cams....and the contraflow began in the distance. One of the anchors finally said where to look to see the cross over--and then I saw it.

I guess contra flow in the middle of the city doesn't do much b/c it doesn't get you out.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

oops- I added the NG article to my post, but deleted the other one... fixing it now

both articles reference the doomsday and expectations that this calamity would happen.

I'm not disputing that.


They did not know which specific storm event would be the one that could cause this calamity until 48 hours before.

 

[bgirldeb]

Yes, I remember seeing contraflow.

It's just such a SAD situation all around. I know this is an understatement.

 

[padams]

Thanks Lisa for responding to my question about the interstates.

I really don't think the pre-hurricane evacuation could have been handled any better. 24-48 hours is not enough time to get everyone out. However, the aftermath of the hurricane, that's an entirely different matter....

 

[BuckNaked]

I guess my frustration is that it didn't seem like NO had much of a "Plan" at all. I know from living in FL that throughout hurricane season you can pick up hurricane preparation material for free from many local stores that tells you what to keep on hand throughout the season and what to do if there is a hurricane. They also have specific zones and routes and evacuate people in an organized manner. I would think a large city like NO with so many below the poverty level would at least have a plan to get the ones living in the most dangerous zones first, and then the next dangerous zone, etc.

oops- I added the NG article to my post, but deleted the other one... fixing it now

That's what I'm saying as well - where were the plans to take care of these people? It's all well and good to say "Well, they didn't have time". Well, guess what, they got as much time as any other hurricane target gets. And KNOWING that the water doesn't just come in and then go back out, as it does in most hurricane scenarios, they had a responsibility to have a plan in place to take care of the people that couldn't get out.

I pulled out the Oct 2004 NG last night to read the article, and reading the first page was like reading a newspaper report on NOLA in the last 5 days.

And I'm not laying this just on mayor Nagin - this is something that should have been in place for decades. There's a very good editorial in the Washington Post this morning about how they had begun to make plans for mass evacuations, most notably, the plan to use cruise ships get people out that had no other way to escape. Unfortunately, these plans were only in the early stages of development. Time ran out. That they had only begun to make plans is a travesty.

The day after the hurricane, the governor and a senator from Louisiana were on tv for a press conference, and every answer to a question, was that FEMA was on the scene and FEMA would solve their problems. They were not only NOT in the way of the federal effort, they were solely dependent on their organization and leadership. You can blame the lack of local plans and organization before the hurricane, but after if hit, FEMA should have established command and control and handled the entire evacuation and rescue effort. They did not-- or they did a horrible job of it. The Coast Guard did a lovely job of rescuing people from roof tops, but FEMA whose job, day in and day out, is to plan for and execute in emergency situations was AWFUL. Really, heads should roll and the entire agency should be re-examined, but our federal government owes the people of this country a better system.

ITA that FEMA has not performed - had it been up to me, Brown would have been fired on Tuesday and the next in command put in control. I don't see how he (or she) could have done any worse than was already being done.

But the bottom line is that under the current system, FEMA is there to coordinate efforts that are requested by state emergenecy management officials. The command and control you speak of is for the distribution and coordination of services and relief. But the local officials are in the best position to know what is needed and where, and it is up to them to forward those needs to FEMA. That wasn't being done.

For example, much has been made of Brown not knowing about the people at the convention center, even though it had been on TV. Putting aside the fact that I doubt the FEMA director was spending his time flipping through the news channels, why hadn't FEMA been alerted by local officials about the convention center?

And this statement in your post says volumes, though I doubt you meant it that way:

They were not only NOT in the way of the federal effort, they were solely dependent on their organization and leadership .

You're right, there was little to no leadership at the local and state level in NOLA.