A Little Advice needed... UPDATE pg 6

[The Mystery Machine]

Ok, it is yet another holiday issue thread. I am kind of torn between what part of me wants to do and my more logical side.

BACKGROUND: DBrother and SIL have been together for 6 yrs now. Ever since they stated dating they would fly to Wisconsin to see her family for Christmas and New Years. No big deal. After DNephew was born my mom asked if Holidays could now be split (one year WI and one year FL) so that they could have time to see DN for the holidays. DB and SIL agreed. DN's first christmas and new years was spent in WI and this year DB was supposedly flying down to FL.

CURRENT SITUATION: Needles to say my mother has been excited *all Year* for this christmas. Her and DB and SIL talked about the trip many times. She has planned for a photographer to take pictures of the whole family on the 26th since with my residency schedule I can not get home at all until the 26th. She has a special christmas tree for the baby (all non-breakable items he can touch and play with) and was eager for this christmas. New wood toys for DN (no plastic allowed by DB and SIL) and lots of fun stuff.

Yesterday we get DBs official itinerary. DB and SIL will be flying to FL on Dec 11, and immediately starting a 130 mile hike that will last until the 21st. Mom and Dad will babysit DN during this time but DB and SIL will not be there as they will be taking a vacation. Okay, not what I consider relaxing but that is their choice.

Here is the kicker. They get back home the 21 and then their flight reservations have them LEAVE on Dec 25th at 0700 to fly to WI for christmas day and new years. They arrive in WI at 2:00 pm on christmas day to spend the holidays there again.

Mom is heartbroken. For months her and DB had been talking about this years holiday. We were all under the impression that christmas would be spent here in FL. Instead we are feeling a bit taken advantage of and disregarded. Grandparents get to babysit while they take vacation for 10 days and then only have 3 days with DB and SIL. I will now not get to see my DN at all. Mom and Dad will not get to have any christmas day with DB, SIL and DN. It feels like favoritism toward the other side.

THE ISSUE: I fully understand that it is DB's choice where to spend the holidays. But I must admit all our feelings are more than little hurt by this.

When my DB sent out his itinerary I wished him well and informed him that I would not be able to see DN this year and to send my love to everyone. Mom wrote a nice e-mail saying that DB should do what is best for his family but would really miss everyone on christmas day. We all wanted to be nice and not guilt trip about the holidays because *sooooo* many people here have issues with being guilted by family over travel plans.

Yet I still feel hurt and my mom is very hurt. She won't tell my brother because she doesn't want to make him feel bad but she spent an evening in tears over this. Part of me wants to write my brother a letter of some sort to let him know that we feel hurt. That we were under the impression Christmas would be in FL and honestly feel jilted by his choice. It has really upset us and I don't think DB is even aware. I must admit I had wanted to see DN as well and will miss not seeing the little guy.

So what to do? Try to write a respectful letter about how hurt everyone feels (emotional side). Let him know that The grandparents and myself feel very saddened over missing christmas? Like we are just being used as babysitters while they vacation before their real christmas in WI. I believe DB is honestly completely clueless that any of us have hurt feelings over this and can't understand why we would possibly be hurt by this.

Or do I just drop it and forget about it since it truly is their family and choice (my logical side tells me this is correct). Push my emotions aside and accept we will never have a Christmas with DB and SIL. Just vent here instead.

I swear, when I have kids this is the *exact* reason i will refuse to travel over christmas. Too many hurt feelings when one side gets favored.

DISer's i seek your advice. Talk to me about the right choice.

First NEVER EVER EVER EVER put anything in writing. That is my golden rule to live by.

I vote for dropping it. What is done is done. I would not make my Christmas about bemoaning the actions of my brother and my SIL. Would I be aggravated, you bet.

Look to the future. If you behave in an adult manner you may find that things change in later yrs.

Also if you make a big stink it gets remembered forever for Christmas.

I am all about focusing on the joy of Christmas and not starting wars with family. Be disappointed of course but then turn your attention to the positive.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Yeah, I think that's crap. When you make your plans without consulting your family and in such a way that the family can't even all be together for a holiday celebration, then yeah, you are responsible for the hurt feelings and so-called avoidence of guilt is manipulation.

So the answer is to not make plans with family. End of story.

What I'm seeing here is a son who possibly heard his mother saying, "I want to spend time with my grandson. I never see him". So the son gave her 10 days to spend with her grandson alone, then he and his wife are spending 3 days with his parents around the holidays. I'd recommend the grandparents have Christmas on Wednesday or Thursday instead of Friday and enjoy that 10 days with their grandson as much as they can.

I think the son is madly juggling trying make as many people happy as possible. If one of the balls drop (his sister or his mother) then, depending on how much static he got when he dropped the ball, he may decide that it's not worth upsetting his own family's life again to try all this flying with a baby or toddler in the future.

OP, I can understand you wanting to let your brother know how much your mother was hurt by his decision to not spend Saturday the 26th in Florida. However, I firmly believe that the decision to let your brother know about it is your mother's responsibility, not yours. If you are upset, then by all means call and write him about it. But, like another poster said, offer a solution and be prepared to hear him say, "I'm sorry but we can't make it."

Guilting someone into doing something only makes the person laying the guilt-trip feel better. Or in control. The person who was guilted into doing something will eventually find a way to not be around guilt-trip-laying person anymore. And I'm speaking from experience here.

Personally, I'd have to wonder if he doesn't feel more comfortable or is happier at his wife's family's home instead of at his parent's home.

 

[BelleWDW]

Personally, I'd have to wonder if he doesn't feel more comfortable or is happier at his wife's family's home instead of at his parent's home.

That could be it.

 

[Lionqueen2]

I think your SIL needs to grow the heck up and realize that life doesn't revolve around her. It isn't that they are coming before Christmas and yes, they can EASILY celebrate Christmas on any day, it is the fact that they are leaving to go to her parents for Christmas when they had promised the MIL they would be there this year.

I would most defiantly CALL your brother and make sure he understands just how hurt your mom is. I am sure he knows this isn't what your mom wanted but I think a call from you would help. No, I wouldn't be "nice" about it, I would lay it flat on the table and tell him that HE is compromising the relationship with your mom, not the other way around.

Does your brother and family visit your mom other times of the year?

I agree! I would certainly call DB and explain the situation. At least from this point on, he will know how his family feels and I wouldn't worry about his feeling guilty. Neither he or your SIL showed any consideration for your family's feelings.

 

[quentina]

This is quite common..........I think the "wife" makes plans and hubby's (most anyway) just go along for the ride. My husband is so out of tune with this type of stuff, if I didn't invite his family over, we would never see them.

 

[Caradana]

It is rare that I depart from 90%+ of the advice given in a thread, but in this particular case, I do.

I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot pole. This one is between your mother and your brother. Your SIL obviously wants to spend Christmas with her family, which I can honestly understand, because I think when my day comes with a young baby, I am going to want to spend it with my mother too. Your brother probably thinks that he's done enough with the prolonged baby-staying-with-my-parents period. and they probably did save hundredds on flights. I wouldn't say a word. There's no way for you to win here.

 

[Carly_Roach]

Ever since they stated dating they would fly to Wisconsin to see her family for Christmas and New Years.

DISer's i seek your advice. Talk to me about the right choice.

I agree! I would certainly call DB and explain the situation. At least from this point on, he will know how his family feels and I wouldn't worry about his feeling guilty. Neither he or your SIL showed any consideration for your family's feelings.

The OP doesn't say where her brother lives, but apparently it's far enough away from both families that he has to fly to get there. Flying is time-consuming and can get expensive. If OP is ready to do all the flying herself, then by all means she should explain her side and not worry about her DB feeling guilty.

As I've said before: people who do things because they are guilt-tripped into doing them find ways of just not being around the guilt-tripper anymore. Whatever the OP decides to do, she's the one who will have to live with it; not us well-meaning advice givers.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

It is rare that I depart from 90%+ of the advice given in a thread, but in this particular case, I do.

I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot pole. This one is between your mother and your brother. Your SIL obviously wants to spend Christmas with her family, which I can honestly understand, because I think when my day comes with a young baby, I am going to want to spend it with my mother too. Your brother probably thinks that he's done enough with the prolonged baby-staying-with-my-parents period. and they probably did save hundredds on flights. I wouldn't say a word. There's no way for you to win here.

Yep.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

Just a thought: Have you considered that they may be flying out on Christmas morning, because it is much, much cheaper?

My family always makes a big deal over Christmas Eve. Perhaps your family could do the same and not cause a lot of guilt and hurt feelings over their plans. Hope everything works out!

We used to leave for Florida ON Thanksgiving morning, for that very reason. HUGE difference in the cost of flights.

We used to alternate holidays with my ILs, until my father died 11 years ago. Now, ALL of our holidays (the day of) are with my mother. My ILs have other children/grandchildren to be with...my mother doesn't (in this area).

I live 2-3 hours south from home. A simple enough drive, I go to see my parents probably every other month.

My issue is that I am currently in residency for Nurse Anesthesia. Dec 11 -21 Bro and SIL are on their hike. I work the First saturday and DH have a wedding to attend on the 13. (this person was DH's best friend for 10 yrs and part of our wedding party)

I work Night shift the following week, then also work the weekend of 21 & 22.

Christmas week I work evening shift (noon-10pm), but then am off for christmas weekend and new years. I work evening on Christmas Eve and Day. I am a resident, which translates to slave labor, at the hospital and changing my schedule is not really an option.

If I must i will swing by home after wedding to see DN that evening for a couple hours.... but I had really wanted to see DB and SIL as well. Plus, my mom is the one really hurt by this.

It sounds like a very busy year for YOU, and that you expect your DB/SIL to work around you.

How much time do your DB/SIL have off from work (assuming they work?)? We're talking two weeks here as it is, the majority of time devoted (for the DN anyway) to YOUR family. I don't have grandchildren yet, but when I do, the greatest GIFT they could give me would be to let me have time with them without their parents hovering over them...I'll even pay THEM.

I'm going to guess that your brother and his wife might not be spending Christmas in the first way they would choose, either. It sounds like they'd have to get up around 4AM in someone else's house, maybe somehow see if Santa came, then head to the airport. They might already feel that they are being pushed & pulled and that they are compromising all over the place. Just a thought.

Anyway, if you are going to contact them do you have a resolution in mind? Are you hoping that they will change their Christmas day flight to a later one? Are there any others that you would consider- for example, if they cut their hike short by a day or two could you come & celebrate Christmas with them at that time?

If you think that there is a solution that would be feasible for everyone, by all means give them a call & try to work it out.

Best wishes for a happy & peaceful holiday!

I agree. And I feel like the ONLY resolution you and your family would accept is staying until the 26th.

I vote for dropping it. What is done is done. I would not make my Christmas about bemoaning the actions of my brother and my SIL.

Also if you make a big stink it gets remembered forever for Christmas.

I am all about focusing on the joy of Christmas and not starting wars with family. Be disappointed of course but then turn your attention to the positive.

This is quite common..........I think the "wife" makes plans and hubby's (most anyway) just go along for the ride. My husband is so out of tune with this type of stuff, if I didn't invite his family over, we would never see them.

Ditto here. And after years of making the effort, I gave up, just to see what would happen. And what happened is...we don't see them, except Christmas Eve and/or the day after Christmas (at a restaurant) and Father's Day OR Memorial Day.

I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot pole. This one is between your mother and your brother. Your SIL obviously wants to spend Christmas with her family, which I can honestly understand, because I think when my day comes with a young baby, I am going to want to spend it with my mother too. Your brother probably thinks that he's done enough with the prolonged baby-staying-with-my-parents period. and they probably did save hundredds on flights. I wouldn't say a word. There's no way for you to win here.

I don't think the timing of the final plans is late. It's over a month before Christmas. This reminds me of my MIL eagerly saying to me, one time in September, "Do you have plans for Christmas?" And I'd say "Not yet. " And she'd answer "Oh good!! Spend it with us!" I didn't have plans because we hadn't figured it out yet, in SEPTEMBER. Geez. One year, the plan made in advance was to spend Thanksgiving with DH's family; the day before Thanksgiving, MIL called DH at work to say goodbye...they were heading to his sister's house, 180 miles away, for the weekend. So I called mom and asked if we could come (of course we could!). There have been numerous misunderstandings with DH's family about invites over the years, mostly because ditzy MIL was always in the middle, screwing it all up. So, unless you're there hearing the whole story, as it's playing out over days/months/the year, you gotta wonder.

 

[kafitty]

fact is, your DB and SIL agreed to alternate spending "the holidays" with your family. That "the holidays" included Christmas and New Years may not have been spelled out, but any adult with 2 brain cells know that that's what it is. i call shame on them - they HAVE to know that they are compromising that promise to your parents.

you know your relationship with your brother, but you'd BEST believe that if my brother pulled something like that, i would be ALL over him. But that's just the way i am, and we're really close. But, you know best how he'd react to something, and if he's the type that would pull away to avoid the guilt...well, again, shame on him, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to keep the peace.

best of luck.

 

[BelleWDW]

fact is, your DB and SIL agreed to alternate spending "the holidays" with your family. That "the holidays" included Christmas and New Years may not have been spelled out, but any adult with 2 brain cells know that that's what it is.:

Really?
Most young people make plans with friends for New Years.

OP's Mother should have a blow out Christmas eve-with all the trimmings and stop crying about it.

As I posted before-its OP's extremely busy schedule that is causing the family not to get together-the blame should not be put on the brother.


I am dealing with a very similar situation and am taking the high road-and enjoying the week I have with my loved ones and extending joy and best wishes as they celebrate the actual day of Christmas across the country with DIL's family-they too have to fly all over to see everyone,

 

[bubie2.5]

It is rare that I depart from 90%+ of the advice given in a thread, but in this particular case, I do.

I wouldn't touch this one with a ten-foot pole. This one is between your mother and your brother. Your SIL obviously wants to spend Christmas with her family, which I can honestly understand, because I think when my day comes with a young baby, I am going to want to spend it with my mother too. Your brother probably thinks that he's done enough with the prolonged baby-staying-with-my-parents period. and they probably did save hundredds on flights. I wouldn't say a word. There's no way for you to win here.

 

[jwhtewolfd]

I've already said I think you should call him, but some people are asking about a solution. Since the plans are already made, and you risk starting something between your family and her family if they, at the last minute, decide not to fly to WI, I would leave this year as is, and make the best of it. I get the impression that this is baby's first Christmas? If that's so, then maybe some consession can be made for THIS YEAR, as both sides would want to see him for his first holiday...with the understanfing that next year they "spend the holidays" with your family THE SAME WAY they have "spent the holidays" with her family in the past. The following year, they can head back to WI, and so on. If they are up to hosting, even throw their own house into the rotation, so both families travel to them every third year.

So the solution, simply put, is call them on their carp so it doesn't happen again. Then put it out there: Either get it right next year, or don't make promises you don't intend to keep.

 

[my3sonsagn]

First off, how close are you with your brother? Are you close enough as siblings to where you could say, "Hey, you're being a (expletive deleted) and made Mom cry." without it causing a 30 year grudge? If so, then I'd definitely say something - even if you don't get a happy resolution this year he'd at least be aware of it in future years. I'd also (assuming a close relationship) make a comment about how awesome it is that they've figured out a way to split the holidays between both families so that alternating years will no longer be necessary. This is the type of relationship my kids have with each other, so I'm just going by what they'd say to each other in a similar situation. ;-)

If you don't have a close relationship then I'd maybe just call and mention that you're sorry you'll miss them and wish them a happy holiday. No snark or anything - just mention it then let it go. It's unlikely they'll change their plans at this point. I do agree with a pp who suggested adding a third year to the rotation at their house; maybe it would work so well that it became it's own tradition that makes everyone happy.

 

[BelleWDW]

Ok, it is yet another holiday issue thread. I am kind of torn between what part of me wants to do and my more logical side.

BACKGROUND: DBrother and SIL have been together for 6 yrs now.

Ever since they stated dating they would fly to Wisconsin to see her family for Christmas and New Years.

No big deal. .

I think this speaks volumes

 

[ProgressCity]

The cheaper flights excuse would fly with me, if they were flying home, but they're not, they're flying to WI to be with SIL's family. (OP states they've flown every year to see SIL's parents, which means they don't live close by.)

What gets me about this is that there are so many threads on here about parenting and how children are out of control. Well it's no wonder! If we can't ever tell someone they've done something wrong because they might feel guilty . DB has done wrong, he should feel guilty. If he didn't plan on alternating holidays he shouldn't have said he would, period. They aren't flying out to go home and save money on flights, they are flying out to see her family and then they'll fly from there home.

Did it ever occur to anyone that the only reason he'd feel guilty, is if he is "guilty"? My DM is a master manipulator and tries to pull guilt trips all the time, but I've never felt guilty for something that I knew was right. If your DB feels he is right in doing this, he won't feel guilty. If he knows he's been a deceitful little ****** he'll feel guilty.

But I like the plan of people can just do whatever they want and no one should ever say anything about it because then the person might feel guilty. I think we should all just forget how our actions affect others and only think about ourselves. Judging by this thread the people that we hurt can just deal with it and no one will ever call us on it and we won't have to deal with any of that nasty guilt stuff

 

[justhat]

The fact that your brother and SIL spent 6 years of holidays with her family pre-kid and no one complained may make them feel like now your family just wants to see their kid, not really them. So they have handled that, by having your parents babysit for 10 days before the holidays, still spending a few days with them before returning home.

Also, does your SIL have a large family? If not, maybe she feels she *has* to be with her parents on the holidays.

 

[luvsJack]

Op, I would strongly recommend talking to your brother and letting him know how hurt your mom and you are.

This is my experience: My oldest son lives out of state, in the past year he and his wife have come here for friends weddings, showers, and most recently to see a sick relative. Many of these times he would call and say when they would get here and we would all make plans to spend time with them. Then they would get to town and all plans would change and we would barely get to see them. I was well aware that his wife was responsible, but wouldn't say anything so as to not rock the boat. The last time they were in town, dh specifically asked them about being around on the weekend and he took some time off to be here. Then they changed their plans at the last minute. I was finally angry enough to say something and let him know that everyone was hurt and angry. He changed his plans and apologized about it happening so many times. Apparently he had a talk with his wife and they have come to some understanding on his need to be with his family too.


It may not work out this way with your brother, but he needs to know that he is causing your mother this pain. She wants a Christmas with her grandson, she missed the first one she should get this one. Sounds like his wife is being a spoiled brat and needs to grow up and realize she has another family now too.

 

[BelleWDW]

She wants a Christmas with her grandson, she missed the first one she should get this one. Sounds like his wife is being a spoiled brat and needs to grow up and realize she has another family now too.

Why is everyone fixated on the date?

Christmas can be celebrated on any day and that is what happens when people marry-she wants to see her family too & grandma is spending 10 days alone with her grandchild!

 

[cabanafrau]

It's so hard to get all the dynamics from a few postings, but there have been many valid points, even diametrically opposed ones in the responses here. Staying out of it, often a great idea to pick your battles. Don't do it in writing, many times an excellent policy. Do it w/o making DB feel guilty, probably wise. Make DB aware he hurt mom, possibly necessary, particularly when dealing w/ the male of the species.

Something I noticed that hasn't been brought up is the fact that possibly SIL isn't freely making the choice to spend the holidays with her family, but is simply afraid to stand up to a manipulative family or family member and therefore always capitulates to avoid a showdown. It very well could be that she's getting grief from her family over this year's arrangements as it is.

Ah, but OP mentioned SIL's family are lovely & they get along wonderfully . . . Well, I have a very dear friend w/ a fabulous family & fabulous IL's who get along famously. Friend's DM pulled out claws no one suspected she had when it came to divvying out Christmas amongst the two families. Friend was living in very modest home couldn't compromise by hosting the holidays herself as IL's family is incredibly large & her relatively small family traditionally celebrated the holidays w/ extended family. She negotiated a grudging division of time which they suffered under for the 3 years or so they were childless & the first two years after their son was born. Finally had to put her foot down when pregnant w/ second son -- which worked out fabulously for her DB, as he was just married w/ baby on the way. Her DM really got a dose of compromise on this subject when a younger daughter married a man who was an only child -- from England!

OP, if you do decide to wade into the alligator pond, try to collect as much factual information as possible. Did DM assume Christmas through NY or did DB originally state that's the way it would be? If he did say that was the original plan, the best approach might be, hey DB, what happened to the Christmas through NY arrangements? Didn't mom tell you about the family photo plan for the 26th? That was really important to her and she's been living on that dream for months, she's really crushed.

If you keep it rather light, I think it lessens the chance he'll feel guilted & manipulated. If it's handled gently, I don't think it should cause hard feelings for them to know they are being insensitive to others' feelings.