50 pts or less contracts?

[bumbershoot]

I was sincere.

I really had been trying to figure out how to phrase a question so as to get the most helpful responses, but sometimes I get scared, even though this is pretty much the nicest message board I've run across (got my start on wedding planning boards, then parenting boards, so I've seen some nastiness in my time!).

Your question yielded some really good answers, for my unasked question (and I think answered it for you, too), so truly, no sarcasm, thank you!!!


And just in case a hypothetical, just thinking about it, will help you... We just really learned about all of this. Although we have very little interest in owning an actual HOME and having a mortgage because we like the flexibility of leasing houses and apartments, this vacation "home" thing really intrigues us!

However, we also have no interest in financing 16K to get 150? 160? points (whichever it is to buy direct from Disney), nor do we have interest in waiting as many vacation-free years as it would take to save that up (even though we're moving to a better, less expensive, living space soon, woohoo! I feel so bad for the condo *owners* stuck with this awful places, so glad we only had to stay a year!). A really easy, simple amount to get together would be enough for 25 points through resale (I think that's the minimum for resale). "They" say that with that purchase, you're treated just like a "real" member. By DVC at least, if not by all "real" members, I suppose.

Looking through the big ol' book DVC just sent us, that could get us 3 nights in a studio at a few places, at a time we already travel (value? season). Hey, that's enough for us right now! We have family in Orlando, we could always finish off a longer trip with them. (I have a feeling payback would be interesting, though)

Now I just have to figure out if owning that amount makes us "real" enough members (by the way, the "real" isn't a snark at anyone who replied, it's just referring to what I said above, that the 25 point resale purchase makes you a real member just like a DVC direct 150 or 160 point member) to then buy add-ons FROM DVC, or if we'd have to just add-on through resales...hmm.


Anyway, that's my point of view. We don't really like to take DH's vacay all at once so we take mini-breaks (to quote Helen Fielding), and it SEEMS that it would work out well for us!

 

[Dean]

Anyway, that's my point of view. We don't really like to take DH's vacay all at once so we take mini-breaks (to quote Helen Fielding), and it SEEMS that it would work out well for us!

Once you're a member, you're a member. So if you buy 25 pts resale, you can add on 25 points just like anyone else. DVC does not refuse to sell if you don't have 150 or end up with at least 150, though they could if they chose to. While this could change in the future, I doubt it will. Your only limitation is that you have less points to work with.

 

[bumbershoot]

Once you're a member, you're a member. So if you buy 25 pts resale, you can add on 25 points just like anyone else. DVC does not refuse to sell if you don't have 150 or end up with at least 150, though they could if they chose to. While this could change in the future, I doubt it will. Your only limitation is that you have less points to work with.

Thank you! Such good info to be had around here!

 

[El&Asmom]

We are not yet DVC owners, but will likely be next year after our trip to decide where to buy in Sept.
We plan on a small contract. Not 25, but somewhere in the range of 75-100.
I've done the math on predicted trips over the next 5-10 years.
We plan on using DVC for Sun-Thur parts of our trip, and then paying cash or transfering to an on site non DVC property for the weekend portion if we want a longer trip. It decreases our point needs significantly by doing this.
We also may not always want to go to DW every year. (yes I admit that).
By banking/borrowing 150pts for every other year gives us 5 nights at BCV or VWL in a one bedroom during magic season. Right now we typically go during value season so we'd even have points left over.
We would much rather pay cash than finance. Right now we don't have 15K to put into DVC. We're in our early 30s, have two small kids, maybe more one day, an expensive mortgage, and we like to enjoy life year round, not just when we're on vacation.
A small contract will get us in the door, and we can always add on later.

And to be honest, I don't even know about all of the benefits of being a member besides the AP discount which likely won't even benefit us when we go for 7 nights or less a year.
We bought a 10 day no exp hopper last year that will probably last us three trips.

Oh, and I love your avatar bumbershoot.
Carried my dd in her Babyhawk all through DW last Sept. She was a happy baby!

 

[dianeschlicht]

We are not yet DVC owners, but will likely be next year after our trip to decide where to buy in Sept.
We plan on a small contract. Not 25, but somewhere in the range of 75-100.
I've done the math on predicted trips over the next 5-10 years.
We plan on using DVC for Sun-Thur parts of our trip, and then paying cash or transfering to an on site non DVC property for the weekend portion if we want a longer trip. It decreases our point needs significantly by doing this.
We also may not always want to go to DW every year. (yes I admit that).
By banking/borrowing 150pts for every other year gives us 5 nights at BCV or VWL in a one bedroom during magic season. Right now we typically go during value season so we'd even have points left over.
We would much rather pay cash than finance. Right now we don't have 15K to put into DVC. We're in our early 30s, have two small kids, maybe more one day, an expensive mortgage, and we like to enjoy life year round, not just when we're on vacation.
A small contract will get us in the door, and we can always add on later.

And to be honest, I don't even know about all of the benefits of being a member besides the AP discount which likely won't even benefit us when we go for 7 nights or less a year.
We bought a 10 day no exp hopper last year that will probably last us three trips.

Oh, and I love your avatar bumbershoot.
Carried my dd in her Babyhawk all through DW last Sept. She was a happy baby!

And your proposed use of a small contract is exactly how it SHOULD be used. If you get a 50 point contract, you will have 150 points for a stay every 3rd year, and that scenario you mention would work perfectly for that. I would probably suggest being a little more thoughtful about exactly the number of points you need based on resort and time of year as well as length of time you want to vacation. For example, say you only find and pass ROFR for a 25 point contract...You can look at EXACTLLY the number of points you would need for a week in a 1 bedroom at your prefered resort, and divide that number in half or thirds (depending on if you expected travel is every other or every third year), and do an add-on to get to that exact number. Say you want a 2 bedroom at OKW in value season for a week. That is 218 points. If you want to go every other year, you would do an addon to that initial 25 point contract of 84 points. That gets you to your optimum point count of 109 for an every other year trip. By the same token, if you want to do every third year, that same reservation would mean you would want a point total of 73 points, so you would just do an addon contract of 53 points to the initial 25. You can see how customized that becomes. My concern is a lot of folks who live nearby getting the small 25 point contracts mostly for the perks. I don't think that is at all what DVC intended.

 

[Dean]

My concern is a lot of folks who live nearby getting the small 25 point contracts mostly for the perks. I don't think that is at all what DVC intended.

Diane, I don't see why it should be a concern, DVC set it up that way. They can change it if they want by taking the perks away or making them only applicable if you are actually staying on points.

 

[lizziepooh]

It would be interesting to know just how many people own only 25 points. It doesn't seem like there would be that many, but then I really have no idea.

 

[dianeschlicht]

Diane, I don't see why it should be a concern, DVC set it up that way. They can change it if they want by taking the perks away or making them only applicable if you are actually staying on points.

You are probably right, Dean. I'm positive it is a non-entity compared to commercial renting. I know a lot of folks here get up in arms about ANY renting, but if DVC were to do away with renting, they would isolate themselves in an industry that has always allowed that activity. Perhaps the only real issue DVC has with the number of points for initial buy in is the ability of the buyer to trade. Now you and I both know that isn't the best of most economical use of DVC points, but I suspect DVC gets a lot of "pressure" from the exchange industry to encourage more exchanging, and that may be the ONLY issue DVC has with small ownerships.

 

[Dean]

You are probably right, Dean. I'm positive it is a non-entity compared to commercial renting. I know a lot of folks here get up in arms about ANY renting, but if DVC were to do away with renting, they would isolate themselves in an industry that has always allowed that activity.

I would agree that a loss of any renting, which means no CRO rooms as well, would have a negative impact for some members and for certain exchange options. But it would have benefits for some as well. I don't see any truly negative impact from what some could call commercial renting, at least to DVC. And I doubt it's common enough to impact DVD or Disney in general. Even if it did impact availability after the 11 month window and for non owners at that resort, I don't see that as a problem. If you take the entire package of those that rent, of which those that truly fit the commercial moniker are a small percentage, you might start to see some real effect. I think the main issue is that some perceive effect and have complained to DVC, mostly members of this and similar boards or email lists.

Perhaps the only real issue DVC has with the number of points for initial buy in is the ability of the buyer to trade. Now you and I both know that isn't the best of most economical use of DVC points, but I suspect DVC gets a lot of "pressure" from the exchange industry to encourage more exchanging, and that may be the ONLY issue DVC has with small ownerships.

Likely not. I think the reason for the buy in level is to get the most money possible for the least amount of expense. It started at 230 and worked it's way down to 150 over time at a stage when DVC wasn't selling very well. The min should likely have been raised long ago, likely about the time VWL as announced. My guess is the reason they didn't do it then was that VB and HH were still selling, or at least trying to. I'm really surprised they didn't actually raise it more than they did. Almost all points system match the points packages they sell to the number of points required for each unit type for a week for each season so you have the choice of say 10-15 package sizes. Some charge more per point for the smaller contracts and less for larger ones. DVC has shown a reluctance to somewhat micromanage over the years both in this area and in rebalancing, which is also likely long overdue. The problem with their reluctance is that they really haven't kept up their side of the bargain to equal out usage by adjusting the points levels. Not that I want them to change it every year but they really should seriously look at rebalancing every 3-5 years if there are obvious inequities in usage.

 

[starbox]

Diane, I don't see why it should be a concern, DVC set it up that way. They can change it if they want by taking the perks away or making them only applicable if you are actually staying on points.

Most of the good perks are only for points stays anyway - I think you get MUCH better perks with an AP, and Florida Resident perks to boot. I don't really think a 25 point contract for the perks would appeal to a local.

 

[dianeschlicht]

I think the reason for the buy in level is to get the most money possible for the least amount of expense. It started at 230 and worked it's way down to 150 over time at a stage when DVC wasn't selling very well. The min should likely have been raised long ago, likely about the time VWL as announced. My guess is the reason they didn't do it then was that VB and HH were still selling, or at least trying to. I'm really surprised they didn't actually raise it more than they did. Almost all points system match the points packages they sell to the number of points required for each unit type for a week for each season so you have the choice of say 10-15 package sizes. Some charge more per point for the smaller contracts and less for larger ones. DVC has shown a reluctance to somewhat micromanage over the years both in this area and in rebalancing, which is also likely long overdue.

I agree with two of your points for sure. I do agree it has to do with getting more money for the least expense, and I am surprised they kept the low buy in price for so long. When we first looked at DVC, they had just lowered it to 210 points for a minimum. By the time we purchased, the buy in was 150. I rewally expected that to be a very temporary thing. I wonder if it will inch back up again?

 

[Dean]

Most of the good perks are only for points stays anyway - I think you get MUCH better perks with an AP, and Florida Resident perks to boot. I don't really think a 25 point contract for the perks would appeal to a local.

I would disagree. Most of the perks are actually member specific and not stay specific. Off the top of my head, the only ones that are stay specific I can think of right now are related to Golf and the member cash discount, plus resort options like free movies and DDP. The AP/PAP discount, dining discounts, minor park discounts, free valet parking and tour discounts are all applicable to any member, anytime. Parking is free to anyone staying on property but also free to any AP/PAP holder but not to seasonal pass holders. I know people who buy seasonal passes for the family with one AP to get the free parking. Seasonal passholders get all the other perks of an AP. DDE also gives you free valet parking associated with meals at resorts that DVC members don't otherwise get free valet parking. But like anything else, it depends on what benefit you would derive as to what would be applicable to you. One thing DVC doesn't do, which many other timeshare do, is give day use privileges. However some owners act like they do anyway and crash the pools.

I can guarantee you that I would own 25 points only if I lived close by WDW, just for the perks alone.

 

[doubletrouble_vb]

I dont really see people owning 25 point contracts for the perks...unless you have a fairly large family. It just wouldnt be cost effective. I'm considering reducing the size of my contract but it has more to do with finances and the fact that 150 points is a bit much for me. Ideally something in the 60 point range split between Hilton Head and a WDW resort would work better. I have another Orlando timeshare I wont bother trying to sell and using the two together could work just as well for me as would using the two separately.

 

[Dean]

I dont really see people owning 25 point contracts for the perks...unless you have a fairly large family. It just wouldnt be cost effective. I'm considering reducing the size of my contract but it has more to do with finances and the fact that 150 points is a bit much for me. Ideally something in the 60 point range split between Hilton Head and a WDW resort would work better. I have another Orlando timeshare I wont bother trying to sell and using the two together could work just as well for me as would using the two separately.

Actually if you started out with this plan you could put a number of people and families on the deed and they all would get the perks.

 

[1-407-WDWJUNKIE]

Giving a discount is the oldest method in the book for convincing someone to buy something they would not otherwise.

If letting someone own a 25 point contract sells an annual pass, even at a $100 discount, that wouldn't have been bought otherwise than that is good for Disney. If that person then feels they have to go to the parks for 3 weeks out of the year to really 'cheat' the system by maximising their AP I am sure Disney doesn't mind.

Even a 25 point contract ties the owner to coming back on a regular basis. All this enticing people to 'game' or 'abuse' the system is really just enticing them to spend money at WDW. If the 'abuser' gets to feel good about themselves for outsmarting the mighty Disney Marketing Machine then that is just one more perk for them.

 

[Dean]

Giving a discount is the oldest method in the book for convincing someone to buy something they would not otherwise.

If letting someone own a 25 point contract sells an annual pass, even at a $100 discount, that wouldn't have been bought otherwise than that is good for Disney. If that person then feels they have to go to the parks for 3 weeks out of the year to really 'cheat' the system by maximising their AP I am sure Disney doesn't mind.

Even a 25 point contract ties the owner to coming back on a regular basis. All this enticing people to 'game' or 'abuse' the system is really just enticing them to spend money at WDW. If the 'abuser' gets to feel good about themselves for outsmarting the mighty Disney Marketing Machine then that is just one more perk for them.

In general you are correct. But for a subset of people that would spend money anyway with Disney, it can be quite a good deal.

 

[bababear_50]

Think I may be one of those "subset " of people

 

[1-407-WDWJUNKIE]

In general you are correct. But for a subset of people that would spend money anyway with Disney, it can be quite a good deal.

Think I may be one of those "subset " of people

I'm not disagreeing that some people can use a small contract to get discounts on stuff they would have pruchased even without the discount, but I imagine for every person like you guys there are a few more who are buying things they wouldn't have just because of the discounts.

If Disney felt small contracts were hurting them they would do something about it. I just doubt that a) It is hurting them and b) they are going to do something about it.

[Slight Topic Drift Warning] As far as giving more perks to Owners of more points I also doubt they would do that. Part of the Disney Magic is that once you enter their world they make everyone feel that they are treated equal - and I think that is a huge part of their success. Obviously, if you have a lot of money to spend on vacation Disney will make sure that there are plenty of outlets to spend it. What is important is that if you don't have much money to spend you are never made to feel like you are a second class guest. Nothing can ruin a magical vacation like being made to feel like an unloved stepdaughter.

 

[Caitsmama]

Well.. I don't post on this board much, as i am not a member of DVC, but i can tell you that it is my future goal to hopefully within the next few years, buy into DVC with a small contract to start (either 25 or 50pts) - my reasoning behind it is - i want to pay CASH for my start up, i don't want to finance any $$.. So, if i start small, then i can add on over the years to increase my points without struggling financially or having to finance anything.

 

[bumbershoot]

As far as giving more perks to Owners of more points I also doubt they would do that.

DH and I were talking about this thread last night, because after reading the "Dreams" book and talking bunches, we've decided to go forward with buying a small resale and starting from there.


And we realized that the BIGGEST "perk" that people who start more properly with 160 point is that they get to spend much MORE time, or in a much BIGGER place than we will! I mean, you own 160 somewhere, you get a week in a one bedroom in adventure season at OKW. We get 3 days! (and have a point leftover) Right there the 160 point owner is getting more than we are.


I will say, however, that when I found out you could pay cash for a cruise, BUT be recognized as a DVC member and get a little get-together and maybe some pins, we thought that was a nice little bonus! But we found that out AFTER looking into this.