2025 Dues

[JackosinDIS]

I’m quite looking forward to dissecting this release. The tax shakeout might dramatically change Riviera’s positioning. Which has already significantly yielded maintenance fee complaints when it originally went on sale.

Poly is the other one to watch; inflated tower charts should drive it quite low in the long term.

Will be interesting if the high points for Poly does bring the per point cost down… or have they inflated the points requirements to cover high operational costs to avoid a CFW situation?!

 

[DanCali]

Some of us had a suspicion of it being a high increase. But it's lower than last year.
2024 - 6.8%
2023 - 5.4%
2022 - 3.7%

That's the danger in extrapolating based on recent trends.

Increases of 7% imply that dues will double in 10 years, quadruple in 20 years and go up eightfold in 30 years. That's not sustainable for most owners. If anything, reversion to the mean is more likely - unless the resort is going into a bad debt "death spiral", high dues increases should generally be followed by more moderate ones and vice versa.

Based on rising insurance rates, yes.

I haven't followed the year-over-year trends on the insurance line item, but if I read the current pdf correctly, the couple of insurance line items represent about $0.20 in dues per point. That's barely 2% of the total dues. If that's indeed the case, even relatively large changes in insurance rates would barely be noticeable on the bottom line.

 

[tjkraz]

That's the danger in extrapolating based on recent trends.

Increases of 7% imply that dues will double in 10 years, quadruple in 20 years and go up eightfold in 30 years. That's not sustainable for most owners. If anything, reversion to the mean is more likely - unless the resort is going into a bad debt "death spiral", high dues increases should generally be followed by more moderate ones and vice versa.

The overwhelming majority of increase in recent years has been due to the cost of labor. As recently as 2018 WDW cast member minimum wage was $10 per hour. By 2026 it will be $20 per hour. DVC has often asserted that 75% of a resort's operating budget goes toward wages and benefits for employees.

I don't want to turn this into a political discussion but the two are undeniably linked. Arguing that Disney should have done more to control annual dues increases is basically arguing that "the people who make the magic" shouldn't be earning more than $12 or $15 per hour. And given that they're drawing from the same labor pool as competitors like Universal, and workers are backed by a union representing 45k+ at Disney alone, such low wages were unrealistic.

 

[tom1944]

I am happy to pay dues that leads to decent wages for the staff.

 

[WinterSolider]

That's the danger in extrapolating based on recent trends.

Increases of 7% imply that dues will double in 10 years, quadruple in 20 years and go up eightfold in 30 years. That's not sustainable for most owners. If anything, reversion to the mean is more likely - unless the resort is going into a bad debt "death spiral", high dues increases should generally be followed by more moderate ones and vice versa.

And also... operational cost increases are going to make their way into the cash rates at these rooms as well, meaning your sensitivity models should have future dues increases and future rack rate increases pegged to one another in some way.

 

[DanCali]

The overwhelming majority of increase in recent years has been due to the cost of labor. As recently as 2018 WDW cast member minimum wage was $10 per hour. By 2026 it will be $20 per hour. DVC has often asserted that 75% of a resort's operating budget goes toward wages and benefits for employees.

I don't want to turn this into a political discussion but the two are undeniably linked. Arguing that Disney should have done more to control annual dues increases is basically arguing that "the people who make the magic" shouldn't be earning more than $12 or $15 per hour. And given that they're drawing from the same labor pool as competitors like Universal, and workers are backed by a union representing 45k+ at Disney alone, such low wages were unrealistic.

My post that you responded to had to do with the Aulani proposed budget, but I'll give you my thoughts on WDW.

In 2020 FL passed a constitutional amendment (which I also voted for) increasing the minimum wage by $1/year until it gets to $15/hour in 2026. It passed with a 60.8% "yes" vote (needed 60% to be approved).

I honestly don't know how many people at WDW are minimum wage employees, since even my high school age child was making $3/hour above the minimum wage working with zero prior experience at a fast food establishment prior to leaving for college. That said, I can see how a rise in minimum wage would impact other hourly employees as their pay might also rise to keep them above the prevailing minimum wage. Still -

1) the $1/hour annual increase becomes smaller in percentage terms over time (i.e., going from $10 to $11 is a 10% increase while going from $14 to $15 is a 7% increase.

2) Those mandatory increases due to the amendment are not expected to continue after 2026 when CPI adjustments kick in.

 

[pkrieger2287]

Throwing a couple random thoughts into the wild:

- Do the tax assessment changes possibly relate to them delaying this year’s release and them needing to go back to the drawing board on 2025 numbers?
- Is there another unintended issue causing the delay? Last year’s release was also a bit all over the place with random paper notices going out for not certain resorts if I recall.
- Lastly just really to stir the pot… Does anyone have a clear understanding of notice requirements and the timeline? My understanding is 15 days which if we go by the meeting dates means the latest they could send these would be Monday/Tuesday of next week.

 

[Chili327]

That's the danger in extrapolating based on recent trends.

Increases of 7% imply that dues will double in 10 years, quadruple in 20 years and go up eightfold in 30 years. That's not sustainable for most owners. If anything, reversion to the mean is more likely - unless the resort is going into a bad debt "death spiral", high dues increases should generally be followed by more moderate ones and vice versa.

That's why selling before the contract loses any significant value is a good idea... even though many of us wont.

I haven't followed the year-over-year trends on the insurance line item, but if I read the current pdf correctly, the couple of insurance line items represent about $0.20 in dues per point. That's barely 2% of the total dues. If that's indeed the case, even relatively large changes in insurance rates would barely be noticeable on the bottom line.

Looking back, is 8x what OKW or other early resorts have done? (I'd think 7% is not the average)

 

[maui22]

@tjkraz has a new DVCNews article with the 2025 dues.
https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...y-vacation-club-annual-dues-released-for-2025

 

[WinterSolider]

OKW getting bruuuuutal.

 

[tjkraz]

@tjkraz has a new DVCNews article with the 2025 dues.
https://dvcnews.com/dvc-program-men...y-vacation-club-annual-dues-released-for-2025

If anyone has links for Vero, Grand Californian or FW Cabins, please share. The others should all be linked at URL above.

Poly dues went down!

 

[DanCali]

If anyone has links for Vero, Grand Californian or FW Cabins, please share. The others should all be linked at URL above.

Poly dues went down!

And here we are thinking dues always go up! Funny how that happens when you're in active sales....

 

[maui22]

If anyone has links for Vero, Grand Californian or FW Cabins, please share. The others should all be linked at URL above.

Poly dues went down!

I have been hoping Island Tower would lower dues, but actually seeing it made my day.

 

[The_MT]

If anyone has links for Vero, Grand Californian or FW Cabins, please share. The others should all be linked at URL above.

Poly dues went down!

VGC is $8.7974, 2.8% increase
https://cdn2.parksmedia.wdprapps.di.../condo-association/180918-WDW-Mtg-Bk_GCAL.pdf

 

[pkrieger2287]

Breaking News - The 2025 Disney Vacation Club (DVC) Annual Dues projections are here!
Find out what you’ll need to budget and when to pay your 2025 DVC Annual Dues.
Click the link for all the details:
https://dvcfan.com/general-dvc/2025-disney-vacation-club-annual-dues/
#DVCFan #DisneyVacationClub #DVC #AnnualDues #DisneyNews #DVCUpdates #BreakingNews

 

[hhisc16]

If anyone has links for Vero, Grand Californian or FW Cabins, please share. The others should all be linked at URL above.

Poly dues went down!

VB-14.30/11.23
VGC-8.79

 

[MarkNC2Disney]

Riv + Poly is a winning combination

 

[ChipTheRescueRanger]

Ok if people can now list contacts for the sale that would help me

 

[Mouseforward]

And here we are thinking dues always go up! Funny how that happens when you're in active sales....

They don’t even hide it anymore

 

[davidhr]

Riviera looking better and better. Amazing for Poly. If anyone has doubts about Reflections lowering dues for the cabins, this might be a talking point.