2025 Dues

[WinterSolider]

Lots and lots of cruise ships.

Bingo.

 

[eticketplease]

Outside of OKW, my home resorts are the two highest at WDW.

Your pictures show SSR & BCV and those are middle of the pack.

Even with CFW going down it is still the highest.

 

[eticketplease]

Does Disney still own the land in VA?

I know the put it up for sale but I'm not sure if a sale was ever made.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I know the put it up for sale but I'm not sure if a sale was ever made.

I do remember being really excited when I heard about it - what was that at least 20 years ago? We are in NH, so it was much closer for us to drive to. We are so sick of SWA, MCO and car rentals.

 

[eticketplease]

I do remember being really excited when I heard about it - what was that at least 20 years ago? We are in NH, so it was much closer for us to drive to. We are so sick of SWA, MCO and car rentals.

Everything I was seeing was behind a paywall.

Looks like 1993 but they attempted to sell in 1995?

https://www.pecva.org/resources/publications/piedmont-view/when-mickey-came-to-town/

I'm tired of SWA as well but it is the only way we can get to MCO on a direct flight

 

[Sandisw]

That argument doesn't work when rack rates fall though.... Did your dues go down when hotel rates plummeted during downturns like in 2009 and 2020?

Rack rates are irrelevant to me. If I was buying a condo/hotel (where you own a hotel room you can use, and it can also go in a rental pool from which you split the revenue with management) I might care about that. But a timeshare is more like a fractional condo and the HOA dues are related to the costs of running/maintaining the resort, which should be more correlated to CPI than rack rates.

If anything, I might care about point rental rates because I can rationalize it that if dues go up 7% but so do point rental rates, and then I am still better off owning. Unfortunately, when dues go up, more owners rent points (more supply) and rental rates may not go up at all or might go down. As others pointed out, a contract is generally worthless if/when point rental rates are lower than dues (and "rack rates" are not part of that statement).

Which really means everyone has to look at things in a way that matters and makes sense to them.

For us. It was against rack rate with a discount when we bought. Once it made sense, we bought and no longer kept analyzing. And still don’t.

Plus a contract is only worthless if the only value you see is a spreadsheet dollar value…my guess is many owners don’t see it that way because the value is in its use and a DVC contract will never not provide you with a room.

 

[GrumpyInPhilly]

Your pictures show SSR & BCV and those are middle of the pack.

Even with CFW going down it is still the highest.

View attachment 915079

You are correct that the dues for BCV & SSR are middle of the pack. I didn't make it clear that I was referring to the 5YCAGR.

 

[tom1944]

Does Disney still own the land in VA?

I think they owned the rights to purchase the land once all the approvals were obtained. I am not sure they actually owned all the land.

I could be wrong though.

Looks like they owned some and had options for some

Disney put the 600 acres (240 ha) of land they had already acquired up for sale in March 1995 and relinquished options to purchase an adjacent 2,037-acre (824 ha) property in December 1994.[47] The land slated for the proposed park has instead since been used to build tens of thousands of single and multi-family homesites in the Dominion Valley and Piedmont housing developments and Camp William B. Snyder for the Boy Scouts of America.[48][12] Since the demise of the Haymarket project, the promised road improvements have been on hold and traffic has increased from the housing developments built on the site, though some residents credit the new housing with attracting a wealthier, more-educated population; the population of Prince William County grew by nearly 100,000 people in the 10 years following the end of the project.[49]

 

[DebbieB]

Your pictures show SSR & BCV and those are middle of the pack.

Even with CFW going down it is still the highest.

View attachment 915079

I bought BWV in 1999. For approximately 10 years, BWV was the highest at WDW, higher than Beach Club or Boulder Ridge. Now lower than both, middle of the pack. Thoughts on reason? More rooms to spread the cost?

 

[eticketplease]

I bought BWV in 1999. For approximately 10 years, BWV was the highest at WDW, higher than Beach Club or Boulder Ridge. Now lower than both, middle of the pack. Thoughts on reason? More rooms to spread the cost?

That would be my guess as those two are certainly smaller point wise.

 

[AstroBlasters]

I bought BWV in 1999. For approximately 10 years, BWV was the highest at WDW, higher than Beach Club or Boulder Ridge. Now lower than both, middle of the pack. Thoughts on reason? More rooms to spread the cost?

BWV has almost as many points as BCV and BRV combined. I’m sure that has something to do with it.

 

[atthebeachclub]

The ceiling is at WDW. They can’t build more rooms and they can’t take much more price.

Disneyland has neither problem but has logistical challenges.

They need a 3rd US resort to actually continue to grow apace.

Surely someone there has realized that.

I think this is probably part of why Dollywood is doing so well. It is in a third location, between Land and World, so captures that regional market, and Land and World are already packed with visitors.

 

[atthebeachclub]

Maybe? Not sure where the sweet spot is. The farther North you go, the more you can distinguish markets, but the less likely you will find a location that can operate year-round.

It's also the case that building a new theme park resort just to sell some more hotel rooms is a large capital investment. There may be better ROIs elsewhere---and so far, that's exactly how the company has behaved, by adding Shanghai, expanding the capacities of the other existing resorts, and building (or buying) new cruise ships. Lots and lots of cruise ships.

You are right. ROI on Shanghai is probably outrageously good. Building more US parks would have much lower ROI.

 

[TinkAgainU]

Especially AKV. Ouch on that increase this year. Probably means they’ll hit $10 next year, and I have 510 points there. Sigh. But I love my AKV.

Same here. And as someone mentioned, there will come a time when the 2042 resorts are out of the mix (assuming no extensions offered) - at which point AKV will be even more popular and require the booking priority.

 

[Brian Noble]

You are right. ROI on Shanghai is probably outrageously good. Building more US parks would have much lower ROI.

In the words of Foghorn Leghorn: "You missed it! It flew right by you!"

Edited: Apparently the person who missed it is me. My bad, and I apologize!

Shanghai was built in a country that had zero Disney resorts, containing 1.4 billion-with-a-B people, with the world's second largest economy and a growing middle class. I suppose you could argue that Hong Kong is part of China, and it is after a fashion, but the border is not yet completely open. In particular, those in the mainland have to apply to enter.

So, they could have built Shanghai, or they could have added a third resort to a country with a bit less than 340M people, with an arguably shrinking middle class, albeit in the world's largest economy.

There might be a reason they built Shanghai and not Virginia. There might also be a reason they are adding to the cruise fleet, and not building Virginia. There might be a reason they are expanding the existing domestic theme parks, and not building more. And don't kid yourself--these are competing with each other as uses of capital, which is not infinite.

As an aside: If you've never been on Shanghai's Pirates, it is worth the price of admission all by itself.

----
It never ceases to amaze me how many well-qualified CEOs there are here on DIS. I'm sure James Gorman will be here soon to pick among the vast stable of candidates.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I think they owned the rights to purchase the land once all the approvals were obtained. I am not sure they actually owned all the land.

I could be wrong though.

Looks like they owned some and had options for some

Disney put the 600 acres (240 ha) of land they had already acquired up for sale in March 1995 and relinquished options to purchase an adjacent 2,037-acre (824 ha) property in December 1994.[47] The land slated for the proposed park has instead since been used to build tens of thousands of single and multi-family homesites in the Dominion Valley and Piedmont housing developments and Camp William B. Snyder for the Boy Scouts of America.[48][12] Since the demise of the Haymarket project, the promised road improvements have been on hold and traffic has increased from the housing developments built on the site, though some residents credit the new housing with attracting a wealthier, more-educated population; the population of Prince William County grew by nearly 100,000 people in the 10 years following the end of the project.[49]

Well, I guess that is the end of that project! THANKS for the deep dive!

 

[MICKIMINI]

Everything I was seeing was behind a paywall.

Looks like 1993 but they attempted to sell in 1995?

https://www.pecva.org/resources/publications/piedmont-view/when-mickey-came-to-town/

I'm tired of SWA as well but it is the only way we can get to MCO on a direct flight

Unfortunately, it is true from MHT. We had to fly out at 2 pm last month on a Friday. Gone are the 6 am, 7 am etc flights where you could actually be at WDW before lunch, so sad...

 

[atthebeachclub]

In the words of Foghorn Leghorn: "You missed it! It flew right by you!"

Shanghai was built in a country that had zero Disney resorts, containing 1.4 billion-with-a-B people, with the world's second largest economy and a growing middle class. I suppose you could argue that Hong Kong is part of China, and it is after a fashion, but the border is not yet completely open. In particular, those in the mainland have to apply to enter.

So, they could have built Shanghai, or they could have added a third resort to a country with a bit less than 340M people, with an arguably shrinking middle class, albeit in the world's largest economy.

There might be a reason they built Shanghai and not Virginia. There might also be a reason they are adding to the cruise fleet, and not building Virginia. There might be a reason they are expanding the existing domestic theme parks, and not building more. And don't kid yourself--these are competing with each other as uses of capital, which is not infinite.

As an aside: If you've never been on Shanghai's Pirates, it is worth the price of admission all by itself.

----
It never ceases to amaze me how many well-qualified CEOs there are here on DIS. I'm sure James Gorman will be here soon to pick among the vast stable of candidates.

I agree with what you wrote, which was the point of my significantly shorter post. But what I don’t understand is if you are attempting to poke fun at me, and if so, why?

 

[Brian Noble]

I read it sarcastically, and that is 100% my fault. Mea culpa! I apologize to you.

I will admit that I was surprised that National Harbor never happened. I thought that was a pretty good idea. Washington DC is one of the "standard pilgrimage" destinations for US families. It's practically a rite of passage to do the DC tour right around middle school or so, much in the same way WDW is a rite of passage for the early grade school set. They bought it near the end of the Great Recession, so presumably got a good deal on it.

Of course, as with most non-theme-park locations, National Harbor was sub-optimal. It is not at all convenient to the Metro, and Disney had the plot farthest from the water. I still think it could have made a pretty good non-park location, but it would not have been without challenges.

But still--I am a little surprised they abandoned it within just two years.

 

[MICKIMINI]

I read it sarcastically, and that is 100% my fault. Mea culpa! I apologize to you.

I will admit that I was surprised that National Harbor never happened. I thought that was a pretty good idea. Washington DC is one of the "standard pilgrimage" destinations for US families. It's practically a rite of passage to do the DC tour right around middle school or so, much in the same way WDW is a rite of passage for the early grade school set. They bought it near the end of the Great Recession, so presumably got a good deal on it.

Of course, as with most non-theme-park locations, National Harbor was sub-optimal. It is not at all convenient to the Metro, and Disney had the plot farthest from the water. I still think it could have made a pretty good non-park location, but it would not have been without challenges.

But still--I am a little surprised they abandoned it within just two years.

If I remember, the locals weren't thrilled with it...