2022 Point Charts Are Out

[zavandor]

It would if the percentage of total budget was changed. We get 2.5% right now...if it was raised to 3%, then we get more. Now, they already could do that with no change, but you said they would have to have a reason and giving members more back from breakage would be something that can be seen as a benefit.

I will have to compare VGF to RIV because what I read didn’t seem familiar to what I had read when I bought BLT and VGF direct.

However, I am not convinced that the lock off premium can’t be adjusted up or down within reason, and there is nothing clear in the language that tells me that, So. It’s one of those gray areas for me as an owner.

I have bought DVC in order to book rooms, that is its primary purpose and I would argue that is what the management company has to guarantee. Reduce by 10% the amount of rooms I can book (what the increase to the lockoff premium would have done), in exchange in a 0,5% reduction in dues would not be an advantage for me.
Even more so because they already hit the limit. If they think it's so important to offset the dues they could already lift or increase the limit.

 

[mdembko]

Actually, I think I’ve been saying it wrong. DVC doesn’t “compare” one year to another, e.g., they don’t compare 2022 to 2021, and they don’t compare 2022 to the base year. When DVC calculates the total points needed to book a resort for 2022, they apply the 2022 points chart to the base year, whatever year that is.

Let’s say that the base year is 1991. I’m going to use the BWV points charts. So in the 2022 points charts, during Sept. 1-19 a standard view studio is 9 points on weekdays and 13 on weekends. When adding up the total points needed to book that room during that period, they don’t look at how many weekdays there will be during Sept. 1-19 in 2022 - they look at how many weekdays there were during that time in 1991 (or whatever the base year is). In Sept. 1-19, 1991, there were 15 weekdays, so each dedicated standard view studio at BWV is responsible for 9 x 15 = 135 points for that period. There were 4 weekend nights, so each dedicated standard view studio is also responsible for 13 x 4 = 52 points for that period, or a total of 187 points. Multiply that by the number of dedicated SV studios there are at BWV (I’m too lazy to look that up) to get the number of points required to book all the dedicated SV studios for the first season shown on the 2022 points chart.

They go through that process for every room type (at BWV that would be dedicated SV studios, dedicated BW/G/P view studios, dedicated SV 1 BR, dedicated BW/G/P view 1 BR, SV 2 BR and BW/G/P view 2 BR) for every season, and they total all that up. (I’m sure they have a lovely spreadsheet that’s way beyond my self-taught Excel skills to develop that does all those nice calculations for them.). That total is compared to the total points for the resort. And that’s the number that has to remain reasonably constant year to year.

Does that make sense? Was that helpful?

So, it seems there are many variables in determining the Base Year in order to align Home Resort Vacation Points with DVCMC's formula.
- you would have to know what dates are considered the high demand period. Back when Old Key West was opened, possibly that demand period coincided with Cash Resort high demand periods like you had mentioned, but we don't know the specific dates.

- When new resorts were opened, did they use a new Base Year? Did the demand period remain the same?, DVC no longer has the same demand periods as the Cash Resorts. Every time a new resort opens, more than likely the charts had been adjusted following the opening of a previous resort.

It seems like plugging in present day points charts back to the Base Year is a moving target. Other than that, for PVB it is relatively simple to apply the point charts since there are only 3 vacation home types, and the units are grouped together as either Lake View Studios or Standard View Studios or Bungalows, all 3 used to establish the Home Resort Vacation Points

 

[CarolynFH]

here you go

https://www.disboards.com/threads/2022-point-chart-release-date.3818065/post-62513445

1 Jan	year
sun​	2017​
mon​	2018​
tue​	2019​
wed​	2014​
thu​	2015​
fri​	2010​
sat​	2011​

no leap years in the bunch but you still have to manually adjust for US Thanksgiving; the Spring break holiday floats a bit but it's usually >7 days so will always have at least one Fri and Sat

and just one more thing to note I didn't put in the original thread, 2017 is just one example of a non-leap year starting on a Sun but there are several others if you wanted to pick one; also, 1991 was a non-leap year starting on a Tue so effectively the same as using 2019

Thanks! I thought maybe you had analyzed point charts using one base year, but that was probably wishful thinking.

 

[Sandisw]

I have bought DVC in order to book rooms, that is its primary purpose and I would argue that is what the management company has to guarantee. Reduce by 10% the amount of rooms I can book (what the increase to the lockoff premium would have done), in exchange in a 0,5% reduction in dues would not be an advantage for me.
Even more so because they already hit the limit. If they think it's so important to offset the dues they could already lift or increase the limit.

I understand and hear what you are saying. I am simply saying that the POS is grey where this is concerned and that I, as an owner, do not see anything that says it has to stay point neutral to the extent that the contract guarantees that the total points, based on the base year, will remain point neutral.

Now, resorts with dedicated studios and 1 bedrooms make it harder as those have to be determined, and Poly has none so that resort is not even included.

We simply have different views on this topic, no worries.

 

[CarolynFH]

So, it seems there are many variables in determining the Base Year in order to align Home Resort Vacation Points with DVCMC's formula.
- you would have to know what dates are considered the high demand period. Back when Old Key West was opened, possibly that demand period coincided with Cash Resort high demand periods like you had mentioned, but we don't know the specific dates.

- When new resorts were opened, did they use a new Base Year? Did the demand period remain the same?, DVC no longer has the same demand periods as the Cash Resorts. Every time a new resort opens, more than likely the charts had been adjusted following the opening of a previous resort.

It seems like plugging in present day points charts back to the Base Year is a moving target. Other than that, for PVB it is relatively simple to apply the point charts since there are only 3 vacation home types, and the units are grouped together as either Lake View Studios or Standard View Studios or Bungalows, all 3 used to establish the Home Resort Vacation Points

How is it a moving target? If all points charts for all resorts for all years are calculated as if they were the points chart for 1991, that seems pretty fixed and standardized to me.

I agree that the High Demand periods have changed, which is why they’ve reallocated points costs from summer to fall the last two years. Having a Base Year on which to build all points charts allows them to make some dates higher and some dates lower while keeping the total over the year the same (within a small percentage).

 

[Sandisw]

So, it seems there are many variables in determining the Base Year in order to align Home Resort Vacation Points with DVCMC's formula.
- you would have to know what dates are considered the high demand period. Back when Old Key West was opened, possibly that demand period coincided with Cash Resort high demand periods like you had mentioned, but we don't know the specific dates.

- When new resorts were opened, did they use a new Base Year? Did the demand period remain the same?, DVC no longer has the same demand periods as the Cash Resorts. Every time a new resort opens, more than likely the charts had been adjusted following the opening of a previous resort.

It seems like plugging in present day points charts back to the Base Year is a moving target. Other than that, for PVB it is relatively simple to apply the point charts since there are only 3 vacation home types, and the units are grouped together as either Lake View Studios or Standard View Studios or Bungalows, all 3 used to establish the Home Resort Vacation Points

I was thinking about that high demand aspect, but then realize it may not matter because the dates for current year of the chart are based back on that.

So, the chart has always gotten more expensive with each travel period..excluding premium...so, for me, the higher demand period may be that last period.

When dates are out there, they calculate, based on that base year and that is how many points it counts as, not necessarily what it is.

For example, if the travel period 4 for in a base year, using 2022 dates, comes out to 500,000 points, then that is what matters, even if the actual 2022 dates say it is 525,000 because there are more weekends, etc...and I used just made up numbers for the example.

So, I you can not look at 2021 vs, 2022 and say there are more...you have to apply the dates to the base year for each room type and that is why I think most will give some wiggle room with total.

 

[CarolynFH]

I was thinking about that high demand aspect, but then realize it may not matter because the dates for current year of the chart are based back on that.

So, the chart has always gotten more expensive with each travel period..excluding premium...so, for me, the higher demand period may be that last period.

When dates are out there, they calculate, based on that base year and that is how many points it counts as, not necessarily what it is.

For example, if the travel period 4 for in a base year, using 2022 dates, comes out to 500,000 points, then that is what matters, even if the actual 2022 dates say it is 525,000 because there are more weekends, etc...and I used just made up numbers for the example.

So, I you can not look at 2021 vs, 2022 and say there are more...you have to apply the dates to the base year for each room type and that is why I think most will give some wiggle room with total.

Exactly. Just look at the highest points period of the year, Dec. 24-31. This year, 2020, the only weekend nights in that period are Friday Dec. 25 and Saturday Dec. 26. Next year, 2021, there will be three weekend nights in that period - Dec. 24, 25 & 31. In 2022 there will again be three - Dec. 24, 30 and 31. In 2023 it will be back down to two, Dec. 29 & 30. Since weekend nights are more expensive than weekday nights, Even if the number of points per night is the same, a given villa would account for more points required to book it in 2021 and 2022 than in 2020 and 2023. If the total number of points required to book is based on the calendar for the same year (1991, maybe) that will smooth out that kind of variance.

 

[mdembko]

Thanks. So I am not just comparing 2022 to 2021, I have looked at all years since Poly opened and 2022 is the only outlier and that's why I would like to plug in to the base year, just to relief my doubts that it's more than just a year with more weekend days during the peak periods. I realize that every year the number of WE are going to increase or decrease but the changes from 2015 through 2021 are what I would have expected for those increased weekend days (+/- an extra WE day). So just to compare, Poly is among the smaller group of DVC and it had the largest % point increase from 2021 to 2022 and the 4th highest points increase, the other 3 being the large resorts: SSR, AKV and OKW.

 

[sethschroeder]

Thanks. So I am not just comparing 2022 to 2021, I have looked at all years since Poly opened and 2022 is the only outlier and that's why I would like to plug in to the base year, just to relief my doubts that it's more than just a year with more weekend days during the peak periods. I realize that every year the number of WE are going to increase or decrease but the changes from 2015 through 2021 are what I would have expected for those increased weekend days (+/- an extra WE day). So just to compare, Poly is among the smaller group of DVC and it had the largest % point increase from 2021 to 2022 and the 4th highest points increase, the other 3 being the large resorts: SSR, AKV and OKW.

Use the previous years point chart on 2022. If you use the 2021 and 2020 point charts on the 2022 calendar it should come out point neutral if I am thinking correctly.

EDIT:

If I just pasted 2021 in to the 2022 calendar and compared there is a 0.33% point increase. I would suspect that point difference can be accounted for out of how holidays land in 2021 vs 2022 though.

I am not exactly sure this is a way to tackle it so I am likely off here as a way to compare. It likely needs to stick to the base year it seems weird that we can not just get the answer on what year is used as base year and clarification on some of the language.

 

[CarolynFH]

Use the previous years point chart on 2022. If you use the 2021 and 2020 point charts on the 2022 calendar it should come out point neutral if I am thinking correctly.

EDIT:

If I just pasted 2021 in to the 2022 calendar and compared there is a 0.33% point increase. I would suspect that point difference can be accounted for out of how holidays land in 2021 vs 2022 though.

I am not exactly sure this is a way to tackle it so I am likely off here as a way to compare. It likely needs to stick to the base year it seems weird that we can not just get the answer on what year is used as base year and clarification on some of the language.

Yes, pasting the 2021 points chart onto the 2022 calendar to calculate total points required can work - in essence you are using the 2022 calendar as a base year. I agree it would be nice to hear from DVC which year’s calendar they use as a base year (I’m curious about whether it’s the same year for all or each resort has its own), but without that information, all you can do is pick your own base year and calculate points required based on that same base year no matter which year’s point chart you’re analyzing.