13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[bcla]

Sorry if this is a dumb question…

Regarding the brain dead woman in TX being kept "alive" for the sake of her fetus, how are they able to keep her body "digesting" nutrients? I assume they have interred a G tube for feeding for the sake of the fetus. Would who ever it is that is "treating" Jahi be able to do the same thing? I keep reading how providing nutrients to a dead body is going to get nasty, but how are they doing it in TX? Is it that the decomposing process had already begun with Jahi?

Ugh. So terrible to even think about.

I don't think they can do anything about the digestive system. I'm guessing it's all coming through an IV. If she is indeed brain dead, then the GI system will shut down all function within a week if not sooner. Or at least that's what's been reported. The head of critical care at CHO says that Jahi McMath's gut is "sloughing off", which I interpret as decomposing and being expelled through the bowels.

As for Marlise Munoz, apparently the hospital refuses to confirm if she is brain dead or not. There's some controversy over whether or not "life-sustaining" care is what's called for in an otherwise brain-dead patient. If she were in a coma or a persistent vegetative state, it would probably be clearcut.

 

[teller80]

I also realize that patients & patients' families don't hear all the information correctly. I think it was on the nurses' site that one nurse quoted a statistic - a patient & the family only hears 50% of the information, of that 50%, they only understand 50%, &, of that 50%, they only correctly remember 50%. And, when you're in an emergency situation, your perception of time is skewed.

I can believe that. When my son was sick (on the cancer ward) I swore my brain turned to mush. I just couldn't seem to process information at all.

I no longer really trust what the doctors & nurses are telling the family. I do believe that the doctors are doing everything they can, but I don't believe they always tell the family the absolute truth.

I agree with you, especially the bolded part. I also think they hold back information. I can't tell you how many times I was blindsided. At the time I didn't think about it, but now that I have I am with you 100%.

 

[MINNIEsotanice]

I just had my tonsils out in November. There is no way I could eat toast right after my surgery. Not saying I don't believe others who had. I just can't imagine it. If the hard toast scraped where my tonsils had been I would have jumped out of my skin. Plus the bleeding that could occur from the toast potentially scraping the scabs away. Eating was so painful altogether for at least 3.5 weeks. Right out of surgery I was given a popsicle. I was on so much pain medication right after that my throat didn't hurt. Then day 1 of surgery I felt pretty good. Just slight pain. I was still hoped up from so much pain medication. Day 2 and so forth we're complete misery and the worst thing I've ever experienced. The pain medication wore off and I couldn't keep oral pain meds down. Eating and swallowing we're the worst and I lost 15 pounds because of it. Like I said earlier I would never recommend this surgery for any older patient as it was such an awful recovery.

 

[U2_rocks!]

Many hospitals are moving away from soft foods after a tonsillectomy because they believe that rougher foods help to promote faster healing by clearing the tonsil bed of debris and preventing infection. It think it has become a UK standard now, and because our hospital is UK-influenced we are following the same guidelines. Perhaps U.S. hospitals haven't started to do that yet?

 

[Disney Doll]

A Catholic hospital, protecting "life" at all costs.

Not true. I work at a Catholic hospital.
There is an innate difference between respecting/protecting life and what is happening here.

NO ONE working in MY hospital would support what is happening to this child's body and memory right now.

 

[rigs32]

As an aside regarding hospital security, a man in my city was arrested in the maternity ward after a crime spree with the loaded weapon on him. Think about it. There are no metal detectors - you just walk in.

 

[Disney Doll]

I agree with this 100%. I could have said all that myself just now but somebody got to it first.

SOMETHING caused this child to die after having had surgery. There are always risks involved in any surgery but ppl usually do not die from it. This girl did. there may be a lawsuit coming for medical malpractice. There would be if that had been my child. But I agree that since this family is so disgusting in their actions that they have mostly lost public support and any lawsuit now will make them out to be looking to profit from their dead daughter.

Had they let her die and buried her I don't know too many ppl who wouldn't support them suing the hospital for the girl dying.

OK for the 49000th time, no one said that the hospital didnt make a mistake. But without knowing all the facts there is no way to say that the hospital DID make a mistake.

The frustration is that there are people believing the rumblings of people who, quite frankly, are operating outside the realm of reality right now, who are being advised by an ambulance chasing lawyer looking for his 15 minutes of fame and some relatives who are looking for a big payout.

IF the hospital made a mistake big enough to kill this girl it will be discovered. There is no way to hide a mistake that causes a sentinel event. There will be investigations, reviewing of the record by numerous people, interviewing of participants by numerous people. You guys seem to think that if the hospital made a mistake someone's going to say "OK let's just delete that from the record...next case". It doesn't happen that way.

If the hospital made a life ending error it WILL be discovered. And they will pay.

All of that does not change the fact that this family and their advisors are using this dead child for fame, notoriety and monetary gain. Maybe not the parents. Maybe the parents are so awash in grief and whatever that they truly can't think straight but if they didnt have people around them supporting their way of thinking, if they didnt have an attorney blowing smoke up their butts about how she's doing better and all the other crap he's been spouting, maybe they'd come to a level of acceptance if her death.
Frankly, I hope there's a special place in hell for the attorney and the uncle because I see them at the center of keeping this debacle going for their own gain.

The people around these parents need to be repeating, in theist gentlest way possible, that Jahi is gone. When the patent says "oh did you see her smile?" The answer should be "no. I know this is so difficult to realize that your baby is gone".

 

[lizzi6692]

Many hospitals are moving away from soft foods after a tonsillectomy because they believe that rougher foods help to promote faster healing by clearing the tonsil bed of debris and preventing infection. It think it has become a UK standard now, and because our hospital is UK-influenced we are following the same guidelines. Perhaps U.S. hospitals haven't started to do that yet?

I honestly don't care if it makes healing a little faster. I remember when an ER doctor told my parents that they should force me to eat after my tonsillectomy(it had been a few days since I'd eaten anything and my mom was worried). I had my tonsils taken out when I was seven and I don't have many vivid memories of that age but that's one of them. I remember bawling my eyes out while my father tried to make me eat mashed potatoes. The pain was right up there with what I went through a few days later when I went back to the doctor to have the scab removed from my throat. Yet another memory I unfortunately remember every bit of. I can't imagine what it would have been like if they had tried to force me to eat toast hours after surgery. I would prefer a lesser pain for a little longer than going through the pain of being forced to eat before I was ready. I think if my parents hadn't been told to force feed me I would have started eating on my own sooner, but after that I was so traumatized I avoided eating until I was sure it wouldn't hurt anymore. I'm pretty sure that is what led to me having to get the scabs removed by a doctor( from what I understand that's fairly uncommon).

 

[North of Mouse]

I do believe that the doctors are doing everything they can, but I don't believe they always tell the family the absolute truth.

I can't believe that the doctors did not tell the family the complete truth. They could not 'afford' to be dishonest unless they had been totally inept and bungled everything (this would have to be a poorly made personal decision on their part). They may not tell the 'patient' the whole truth (depending extenuating circumstances), but would tell the responsible family member.

They 'told' this family the truth, and even under those circumstances they chose not to accept it. IMO, the courts 'failed' here - a dead body should never be allowed to be treated in this manner. What kind of 'precedent' does this set??

Many hospitals are moving away from soft foods after a tonsillectomy because they believe that rougher foods help to promote faster healing by clearing the tonsil bed of debris and preventing infection. It think it has become a UK standard now, and because our hospital is UK-influenced we are following the same guidelines. Perhaps U.S. hospitals haven't started to do that yet?

You live in the UK, I don't, so will not begin to know what they do there, but they 'don't' do that here.

They also would not make me or my child/family member eat in such a manner. That's just 'asking' for the throat to bleed/stay torn up.

 

[mamamary]

I honestly don't care if it makes healing a little faster. I remember when an ER doctor told my parents that they should force me to eat after my tonsillectomy(it had been a few days since I'd eaten anything and my mom was worried). I had my tonsils taken out when I was seven and I don't have many vivid memories of that age but that's one of them. I remember bawling my eyes out while my father tried to make me eat mashed potatoes. The pain was right up there with what I went through a few days later when I went back to the doctor to have the scab removed from my throat. Yet another memory I unfortunately remember every bit of. I can't imagine what it would have been like if they had tried to force me to eat toast hours after surgery. I would prefer a lesser pain for a little longer than going through the pain of being forced to eat before I was ready. I think if my parents hadn't been told to force feed me I would have started eating on my own sooner, but after that I was so traumatized I avoided eating until I was sure it wouldn't hurt anymore. I'm pretty sure that is what led to me having to get the scabs removed by a doctor( from what I understand that's fairly uncommon).

I know what you are saying. I also had my tonsils taken out at about age 7. I don't have lots of vivid memories from that age but boy oh boy do I remember the pain. In addition to not eating I can also remember not talking because of the pain. Now my son on the other hand asked if I could make him a hot dog after his surgery.

 

[Gracie09]

As an aside regarding hospital security, a man in my city was arrested in the maternity ward after a crime spree with the loaded weapon on him. Think about it. There are no metal detectors - you just walk in.

The maternity ward where I had my daughter was on 24 lock down. You had to be buzzed in and out. Same with the peds ward. The nicu had an even higher level of security.

 

[skylizard]

How is what they are doing to her body legal? The death certificate was issued and she was declared dead as of 12/12/13. So at this point...and not to be gruesome...but they are performing medical procedures on a corpse. Unless the "doctors" are doing it for medical research how is this legal?

 

[Halloweenqueen]

I just can't imagine how a family can just keep a dead body. This case gets more bizarre by the day. I can't imagine this helping their case when they pursue all these lawsuits. The uncle declaring 250,000 is chump change and it should be more like 30 million is disgusting.

 

[GusGus77]

I can't tell you how many people have called during the past few days and asked "did you hear about the girl in CA?". Thank you, media, for your slanted, half - reporting!

I so agree!!! I have a tonsillectomy and sinus surgery scheduled in two weeks (as a middle-aged adult) and have had several people ask if I have heard about this case and concerned about the procedure and flipping out about it because of this case. Granted, it made me a little nervous, too, but any surgery would as there are always risks regardless of how routine.

The recovery protocol in Britain and U.S. for the procedure are opposite one another. In Britain you are required to eat scratchy food (toast) right away. In the U.S. you only have soft food for awhile.

 

[Callie]

I can't tell you how many people have called during the past few days and asked "did you hear about the girl in CA?". Thank you, media, for your slanted, half - reporting!

I so agree!!! I have a tonsillectomy and sinus surgery scheduled in two weeks (as a middle-aged adult) and have had several people ask if I have heard about this case and concerned about the procedure and flipping out about it because of this case. Granted, it made me a little nervous, too, but any surgery would as there are always risks regardless of how routine.

The recovery protocol in Britain and U.S. for the procedure are opposite one another. In Britain you are required to eat scratchy food (toast) right away. In the U.S. you only have soft food for awhile.

Stay strong! I had sinus surgery twice, and it kind of sucked. Worst part was having to wear something around my face to catch the blood from my nose.

 

[Silly Little Pixie]

OK for the 49000th time, no one said that the hospital didnt make a mistake. But without knowing all the facts there is no way to say that the hospital DID make a mistake.

The frustration is that there are people believing the rumblings of people who, quite frankly, are operating outside the realm of reality right now, who are being advised by an ambulance chasing lawyer looking for his 15 minutes of fame and some relatives who are looking for a big payout.

IF the hospital made a mistake big enough to kill this girl it will be discovered. There is no way to hide a mistake that causes a sentinel event. There will be investigations, reviewing of the record by numerous people, interviewing of participants by numerous people. You guys seem to think that if the hospital made a mistake someone's going to say "OK let's just delete that from the record...next case". It doesn't happen that way.

If the hospital made a life ending error it WILL be discovered. And they will pay.

All of that does not change the fact that this family and their advisors are using this dead child for fame, notoriety and monetary gain. Maybe not the parents. Maybe the parents are so awash in grief and whatever that they truly can't think straight but if they didnt have people around them supporting their way of thinking, if they didnt have an attorney blowing smoke up their butts about how she's doing better and all the other crap he's been spouting, maybe they'd come to a level of acceptance if her death.
Frankly, I hope there's a special place in hell for the attorney and the uncle because I see them at the center of keeping this debacle going for their own gain.

The people around these parents need to be repeating, in theist gentlest way possible, that Jahi is gone. When the patent says "oh did you see her smile?" The answer should be "no. I know this is so difficult to realize that your baby is gone".

My next question for y'all that have worked in ICU's... Is it routine when there is brain death to ask the parents' permission to turn off the ventilator? I would've thought it would go more like, "it's time to say goodbye, we'll leave it on long enough for grandma to arrive". I would think that many families, in the state of shock, would say no. Is it just that this particular family's denial never went away? Or did the hospital err in giving the parents a choice? I am not sure how long it was after Jahi's brain death before the family went to court.

 

[TLSnell1981]

Not true. I work at a Catholic hospital.
There is an innate difference between respecting/protecting life and what is happening here.

NO ONE working in MY hospital would support what is happening to this child's body and memory right now.

 

[AnnaS]

Saw this earlier - not sure if it's on here

http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/...ared-brain-dead-gets-feeding-breathing-tubes/

 

[Lanshark]

Who in the world is paying for all of this?

 

[LisaR]

My next question for y'all that have worked in ICU's... Is it routine when there is brain death to ask the parents' permission to turn off the ventilator? I would've thought it would go more like, "it's time to say goodbye, we'll leave it on long enough for grandma to arrive". I would think that many families, in the state of shock, would say no. Is it just that this particular family's denial never went away? Or did the hospital err in giving the parents a choice? I am not sure how long it was after Jahi's brain death before the family went to court.

I think this is an excellent question and one that I think is very important. I have a living will. I want my wishes to be honored. In my case, I want life support turned off. But what if that wasn't what my wishes were? What if I wanted to stay on life support for as long as possible? Should hospital personal be allowed to make the decision when to pull the plug or should it be left up to my loved ones?

When we removed life support on my dad, we waited for my brother to arrive from out of state. But everything was solely our decision. The hospital didn't tell us we had X amount of hours to get it done. It was completely our decision, as it should be.

I think this case has reopened the discussion of brain dead. When a doctor determines a patient is brain dead, do they call a time of death? I don't believe they do. If a time of death isn't called, you can see why a family may not accept the idea that their daughter is dead. I believe brain dead is dead. However, as is obvious by this case, not everyone accepts that. We can all sit in judgement and say this family is wrong and we are right, but I don't ever want my right to make medical decisions for my family to be taken away.