13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[JanaDee]

This came out from the Catholic Church

http://www.ncbcenter.org/resources/jahi-mcmath-and-catholic-teaching-on-the-determination-of-death

Hmmm, interesting.

So I take that article to mean a Catholic hospital is in no way associated with the case, since they also believe she is dead.

 

[lsyorke]

Hmmm, interesting.

So I take that article to mean a Catholic hospital is in no way associated with the case, since they also believe she is dead.

That's my take on the article too.

 

[luv4u859]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/08/health/jahi-mcmath-update/

they want privacy now as this article says. I understand they are going through a lot but they didn't ask for "privacy" when they were asking for money from the public to help move her, I don't mean to sound like I hate the family or anything because I don't, I just don't feel its right that they did all these news conferences, asked for money and now they want privacy. I am saddened by this story and I feel sad about the whole situation

 

[JanaDee]

Nick Smith ‏@nicksmithnews 31m
#NEW INFO: according to family, #JahiMcMath has had feeding tube inserted and is "doing great." pic.twitter.com/TqWC1qt3FQ

I am sickened, saddened, and disgusted by this news. She has no way to digest food. This is going to get horrible very fast.

Their definition of "doing great" is light years away from mine. The delusion and denial has truly reached an unbelievable level.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

This came out from the Catholic Church http://www.ncbcenter.org/resources/jahi-mcmath-and-catholic-teaching-on-the-determination-of-death

That was refreshing. Thanks for posting that.

But, she IS in a Catholic hospital, isn't she? Reading that link, I have to agree with the PP who asked who would risk their licensure by inserting a feeding tube, etc? Unless, going by that article, there's no OBLIGATION to insert a tube or anything else, but...what? This is just crazy. I wonder what the Catholic Church thinks of that crazy Dr Byrne (I think that was his name).

This is so frustrating.

 

[LilyWDW]

A Catholic hospital, protecting "life" at all costs.

The Catholic Church accepts the concept of "brain death" as actual death. So lets not drag the religion into this. Even a doctor at a Catholic Hospital would follow the brain death idea.

The Ethical and Religious Directives for Catholic Health Care Services, published by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, summarizes the continuous teaching of the Catholic Church: “The determination of death should be made by the physician or competent medical authority in accordance with responsible and commonly accepted scientific criteria.”

Edit: And I was posting at the same time as MaryAnn who read the article. Sorry about that!

 

[JanaDee]

That was refreshing. Thanks for posting that.

But, she IS in a Catholic hospital, isn't she? Reading that link, I have to agree with the PP who asked who would risk their licensure by inserting a feeding tube, etc? Unless, going by that article, there's no OBLIGATION to insert a tube or anything else, but...what? This is just crazy. I wonder what the Catholic Church thinks of that crazy Dr Byrne (I think that was his name).

This is so frustrating.

No one really knows where she is for sure, only speculation. I am pretty sure she isn't in a different hospital, though.

 

[Lorelei Lee]

The allnurses thread has a link to an Instagram page, wheresomeone who claims to be a cousin says the tubes have been placed. Thete is also a link to a facebook page ofanotger cousin, who hopes someone talks sense into Jahi's mother.


And the nurses are very graphic about what wil happen if they try to put formula into the feeding tube.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

It's going to be interesting to find out, if we ever do, who had her and what their qualifications were, and what they got out of it. It's not like the family has NO support out there. Maybe the Schaivo's organization hooked them up with a place. And there's always that crazy question...what legal responsibility does any medical facility have for the care of a dead body.

 

[phorsenuf]

Well I guess they must not exist then.

Yup let's assume they had a party in her room with 16 people and burgers. I read it on the Internet so it must be true. Got to head out for that date with the French model I met online.

My goodness this has got your dander up. You stated you've only seen locked ICU's. Others have agreed with you and some have not. Why such an attitude?

 

[lizzi6692]

I realize that. But not every person who goes into cardiac arrest ends up on a vent either. Doctors call "time of death" & that, sadly, is it, & then they go out to talk to the family in the waiting room.

I guess what I'm asking what would put one cardiac arrest patient on a vent & one cardiac arrest patient not?

In Jahi's case, would she have ended up on a vent because they did manage to get her heart started back but couldn't keep it beating on its own, so they would have put her on vent? And then, later, as you said, discovered that she was brain dead.

She was put on a vent because they were able to get her heart restarted. They didn't know if she was brain dead so as long as her heart continued beating they had to go on the assumption she was still alive until they could prove otherwise. Tests for brain death have to be performed under certain circumstances which is probably why they waited to do them.

 

[bcla]

That was refreshing. Thanks for posting that.

But, she IS in a Catholic hospital, isn't she? Reading that link, I have to agree with the PP who asked who would risk their licensure by inserting a feeding tube, etc? Unless, going by that article, there's no OBLIGATION to insert a tube or anything else, but...what? This is just crazy. I wonder what the Catholic Church thinks of that crazy Dr Byrne (I think that was his name).

This is so frustrating.

Dr. Paul Byrne of the University of Toledo. He apparently has been part of this circus and claims that he witnessed activity that indicated that Jahi McMath was still alive and responding to stimuli. He's also pretty public about his objections to "brain death" - claiming that it's something declared in order to facilitate organ transplantation.

I don't know if there's only one overriding philosophy among all Catholic medical practitioners. I wouldn't be surprised if Jahi's body were at a Catholic facility being tended to. I could also imagine her body in some place wholly unsuitable, and the family is lying about everything.

 

[TLSnell1981]

.

The family has been shown to not use good judgement, IMHO, so nothing would surprise me. Perhaps the hospital IS to blame on some level. We just don't know now. The situation long ago moved from what actually happened to cause her to be brain dead, to moving a dead body, sustaining a dead body, decomposition, etc. After she's finally buried, the family and hospital and lawyers will return to what caused her to die in the first place.

Their actions do cause one to pause and ponder. So far, this doesn't pass the smell test or gut check.

 

[luv4u859]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/08/health/jahi-mcmath-update/

they want privacy now as this article says. I understand they are going through a lot but they didn't ask for "privacy" when they were asking for money from the public to help move her, I don't mean to sound like I hate the family or anything because I don't, I just don't feel its right that they did all these news conferences, asked for money and now they want privacy. I am saddened by this story and I feel sad about the whole situation

 

[MinnieLovesMickey12]

If my child went in for a T&A and came out dead, I have to tell you that I would launch an investigation like one has never seen before to get to the bottom of it all. If I concluded through that investigation that the hospital was even slightly negligent, I would sue them to ends of the earth and wouldn't settle for anything.

I am NOT saying the hospital is negligent. But when a child dies after fairly routine surgery, there needs to be a serious investigation. And I know some are saying this wasn't a routine surgery. I'm sorry, but hospitals operate on overweight people every single day of the year and they don't die. My son had a T&A and they took a large amount of extra tissue. While it might not be routine in a tonsillectomy, it certainly isn't rare. There are surgeries performed daily that are a hundred times more complicated than this surgery and the patient doesn't die. Again, I am not saying the hospital did anything wrong. This may have simply been one of those things, but as the parent of a child who died during surgery, you better believe I wouldn't let this one drop. Would any of you?

The thing is, I doubt there is a single person out there would let this drop if it was their child, but people hate this family so much right now, that they are automatically excusing the hospital. If this family had reacted like most of us say we would have on this thread (child is declared brain dead, parents remove life support, child passes and is buried) and then the family started an investigation, I can't imagine a single person wouldn't back them up. An investigation doesn't mean negligence will be found, but the family certainly has a right to find out why their 13 y/o is gone. Unfortunately, this has turned into a ginormous cluster **** and the family has lost support. That is really sad because it isn't common for a kid to die after tonsil surgery, but because of the circus surrounding this case, we will likely never find out what really happened.

I agree with this 100%. I could have said all that myself just now but somebody got to it first.

SOMETHING caused this child to die after having had surgery. There are always risks involved in any surgery but ppl usually do not die from it. This girl did. there may be a lawsuit coming for medical malpractice. There would be if that had been my child. But I agree that since this family is so disgusting in their actions that they have mostly lost public support and any lawsuit now will make them out to be looking to profit from their dead daughter.

Had they let her die and buried her I don't know too many ppl who wouldn't support them suing the hospital for the girl dying.

 

[bcla]

I agree with this 100%. I could have said all that myself just now but somebody got to it first.

SOMETHING caused this child to die after having had surgery. There are always risks involved in any surgery but ppl usually do not die from it. This girl did. there may be a lawsuit coming for medical malpractice. There would be if that had been my child. But I agree that since this family is so disgusting in their actions that they have mostly lost public support and any lawsuit now will make them out to be looking to profit from their dead daughter.

Had they let her die and buried her I don't know too many ppl who wouldn't support them suing the hospital for the girl dying.

I've stated that I believe they could very well be sued, but they won't get anything beyond simply the $250,000 "noneconomic" cap in California law since 1976. All the medical expenses for the stay at CHO will be covered either by the family's insurance or eaten by the hospital. The family has since agreed to be responsible for all care of the body since the release as a condition of the release, and there is a death certificate now. Claiming that CHO is on the hook for any efforts to maintain a legally dead body will go nowhere. As a minor who never worked, they won't be able to claim loss of future earnings.

 

[luvsJack]

And many hospitals have locked icus.

Only locked unit in your hospital is psych? Not even maternity? I thought that was pretty standard these days.

Either way it doesn't change the fact that it's all speculation based on Internet rumors. It's actually really sick that people are willing to speculate on how this mother killed her daughter based on nothing.

Neither of our two hospitals have a locked ICU nor is the maternity ward locked.

Someone MAY have offered the child a bite of something not knowing what could happen. It is possible.

And maybe they didn't. No one knows for sure but them.

You are making fun of people getting info from the internet. Where are you getting info? Is not some of it coming from the internet?

 

[sunshinehighway]

Neither of our two hospitals have a locked ICU nor is the maternity ward locked.

Someone MAY have offered the child a bite of something not knowing what could happen. It is possible.

And maybe they didn't. No one knows for sure but them.

You are making fun of people getting info from the internet. Where are you getting info? Is not some of it coming from the internet?

People shouldn't be taking their information from random comment sections of articles. This is especially true when they are using that information to speculate on why this death was the fault of Jahi's mother. Look, I don't agree with what this family is doing. I understand they've lost favor with the public because of their actions. That's fine, I totally get it. It's just cruel to go from "I don't agree with what they are doing" to " lets speculate on how they probably killed her".

 

[dakcp2001]

And many hospitals have locked icus.

Only locked unit in your hospital is psych? Not even maternity? I thought that was pretty standard these days.

Either way it doesn't change the fact that it's all speculation based on Internet rumors. It's actually really sick that people are willing to speculate on how this mother killed her daughter based on nothing.

Nope. Maternity is not locked. The babies wear a little LoJack bracelet and if anyone tried to take a baby or remove the bracelet then it triggers a lockdown.

Why do you hate hospitals and nurses so much? It's pretty obvious you have had a bad experience, and have shown your bias.

 

[luvsJack]

People shouldn't be taking their information from random comment sections of articles. This is especially true when they are using that information to speculate on why this death was the fault of Jahi's mother. Look, I don't agree with what this family is doing. I understand they've lost favor with the public because of their actions. That's fine, I totally get it. It's just cruel to go from "I don't agree with what they are doing" to " lets speculate on how they probably killed her".

I get what you are saying completely. I don't think we should suddenly decide it is the mother's fault nor do I think we should decide that the hospital did something wrong but either one is possible.

Whoever made that comment could have been completely lying, but they could have been being completely truthful too. We just don't know.

I don't vilify the mom for what she is doing. I feel sorry for her.