13 Year old gir declared brain dead has now officially died

[mom2rtk]

did they go through the whole farce of using anesthesia?

I wondered the same thing. It might be pretty telling.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

thanks (and thanks to the other person who answered too). I just want to know who they got to do this procedure and did they go through the whole farce of using anesthesia?

That's an interesting question about the anesthesia.

 

[bcla]

I understand that. But I'm wondering if this is some twisted way of challenging the death certificate and "proving" that she really didn't die. Thus suing CHO for more money.
I just can't make any sense of this.

I found that CHO once settled with a family where the child became brain damaged - for $4.4 million. However, she had brain function, and the majority of the settlement was put into a trust fund for her future care.

http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_24799117/jahi-mcmath-2-years-ago-girl-wound-up

Given that the family agreed that they are responsible for the body now, I think that would absolve CHO for the costs of whatever the family is currently attempting.

 

[timmac]

The way statements from the lawyer are worded, e.g. "getting the care she should have had for the last 28 days", speaks pretty well to intentions, I'd say.

I suspect whatever type of "care" she is getting at this point is probably smoke and mirrors, and part delusion.

 

[gottaluvPluto]

thanks (and thanks to the other person who answered too).

I just want to know who they got to do this procedure and did they go through the whole farce of using anesthesia?

I wonder if she is at a research facility or a medical school that can work on deceased people for educational studies.

I don't think they gave her anesthesia. I think they told the parents that she doesn't need it because she won't feel any pain from the procedure.

 

[sonnyjane]

It's funny. The story is basically exactly the same, but it's very apparent that every news outlet has their own opinion on the case. This LA Times headline is pretty biased (rightfully so) against the family. http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-78820175/

ETA: Ugh sorry, from my phone it's not loading. Anyway it says "Inevitable: as Jahi McMath deteriorates, brain-death case nears end"

 

[twinboysmom]

In regards to anesthesia, it is not necessary for a trach. They are done at the bedside frequently. For comatose patients I have seen some docs use strictly lidocaine to numb the site. Most nurses (myself included) usually push for some sedation as well but not all doctors use it in that type of situation. For more neurologically aware patients I have always seen them use sedation and a local anesthetic. The same with a feeding tube. They can also be done easily at the bedside and since she has no gag reflex, she may have received only light sedation or some lidocaine. We all know that any efforts at sedation or pain control would only be for her families benefit since she is brain dead but we can speculate but likely will not know how they did these procedures.

 

[StitchesGr8Fan]

If they allowed those procedures to be done without anesthesia then they are hypocrites. If they don't think she is brain dead, and they are saying she responds to touch, then they should have insisted on anesthesia since she would feel the "touch" of the scalpel on her throat and stomach.

 

[Kitty 34]

That's what gets me about this. Anyone who has an MD knows that this girl is dead. I have to assume, at this point, that whatever 'health care professionals' are participating in this disgrace are flat out lying to the family. They should have their licenses pulled.

So agree with the this!!!

 

[Handbag Lady]

Oh no...according to the family, she is doing "much better".

I can't get the image of Weekend at Bernie's out of my mind. You know, the scene where is he waterskiing?

 

[joviroxx]

Again - Dr. Paul A. Byrne of the University of Toledo Medical Center. He's been outspoken in his opposition to "brain death" as a proper diagnosis. Additionally, I found one site claiming that he was once on the staff at Oral Roberts University although he appears to be Catholic. I get the suspicion that a lot of his medical ideology is driven by his religious views.

The Catholic Church accepts brain death as death. I don't know what his religious views are buy if he is opposed to brain death, its not a catholic view.

This case was making me so sad and no I just find it ridiculous. I felt such empathy for this family but its beyond anything Ive ever seen...

She's doing much better? REALLY????!!!

 

[Silly Little Pixie]

She's doing much better? REALLY????!!!

And then, when her heart finally gives out, it will still be the hospital's fault since they "denied" her nutrition after she was declared dead back in December.

 

[DisneyJamieCA]

In regards to anesthesia, it is not necessary for a trach. They are done at the bedside frequently. For comatose patients I have seen some docs use strictly lidocaine to numb the site. Most nurses (myself included) usually push for some sedation as well but not all doctors use it in that type of situation. For more neurologically aware patients I have always seen them use sedation and a local anesthetic. The same with a feeding tube. They can also be done easily at the bedside and since she has no gag reflex, she may have received only light sedation or some lidocaine. We all know that any efforts at sedation or pain control would only be for her families benefit since she is brain dead but we can speculate but likely will not know how they did these procedures.

Except I was under the understanding they wanted an abdominal feeding tube, which would be surgery & require sedation (in patients who are alive).

ETA: Although that is required in a long term situation. Who knows what this "doctor" has agreed to.

 

[bcla]

The Catholic Church accepts brain death as death. I don't know what his religious views are buy if he is opposed to brain death, its not a catholic view.

I understand that. I wasn't getting that his views were mainstream Catholic. However, his personal religious convictions seem to stray from the mainline thinking on what constitutes medical death.

If anything - working at Oral Roberts University would have the key to my distrust.

 

[LilyWDW]

I can't get the image of Weekend at Bernie's out of my mind. You know, the scene where is he waterskiing?

I keep thinking of Monty Python and the Holy Grail...

FATHER: Please, please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion!
Let's not bicker and argue about who killed who. We are here today to
witness the union of two young people in the joyful bond of the holy
wedlock. Unfortunately, one of them, my son Herbert, has just fallen
to his death. But I think I've not lost a son, so much as... gained
a daughter! For, since the tragic death of her father--
RANDOM: He's not quite dead!
FATHER: Since the near fatal wounding of her father--
RANDOM: He's getting better!
FATHER: For, since her own father... who, when he seemed about to
recover, suddenly felt the icy hand of death upon him,...
[ugh]
RANDOM: Oh, he's died!

 

[Procrastinate]

I thought the following was an excellent article:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/today...agedy-in-the-jahi-mcmath-story_b_4568882.html

 

[carissa1970]

I thought the following was an excellent article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/todays-mama/theres-a-second-tragedy-in-the-jahi-mcmath-story_b_4568882.html

That was a really kind, and good article for that hospital. Thank you for sharing that.

 

[minkydog]

I just saw this on facebook. It's almost like reading an Onion article!

http://globalgrind.com/2014/01/09/jahi-mcmath-fitted-breathing-feeding-tubes-healing-details/

Oh my goodness. At least 98% of the people who are posting their opinions on that site are completely delusional. Several have referenced Lazarus, a man who was a friend of Jesus. Lazarus died, was buried for 3 days and Jesus called him from outside the grave and Lazarus came back to life and walked out of the cave he was buried in. To my knowledge, there have been no other people raised from the dead after being in the grave for 3 days. There have been some people who "came back to life" that actually were never dead to start with, but had entered a comatose state in which their breathing was extremely shallow and the heart was very slowed down. But dead for nearly a month? Yeah. IMO, God can perform miracles, but in this case I believe that God has already allowed this girl to pass. In Christian terms, she has been healed completely and her soul is in heaven with God.

 

[twinboysmom]

Except I was under the understanding they wanted an abdominal feeding tube, which would be surgery & require sedation (in patients who are alive).

ETA: Although that is required in a long term situation. Who knows what this "doctor" has agreed to.

Nope. A permanent feeding tube can be done locally. I don't agree with it but have seen it done on comatose patients. They are also routinely dines t tuned side in icu's on more alert patients as well (but with some sedation). It's generally an easy and fairly quick procedure.

 

[MaryAnnDVC]

I thought the following was an excellent article: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/todays-mama/theres-a-second-tragedy-in-the-jahi-mcmath-story_b_4568882.html

That was great. Thanks for posting it. We went through quite the rollercoaster medical experience with our DD back in 2001, and reading that article reminded me how passionately I appreciated the compassion of the staff at our hospital.