12 year olds drinking O'Douls...appropriate?

[cornflake]

Actually, you can drink in a safer way, but no alcohol is actually good or safe for anyone of any age. It affects young people's bodies more heavily than adults, but that doesn't mean it's safe for anyone.

Whoa, where do you get that alcohol isn't good or safe for anyone?

Repetitive studies show it is good for people, and there's nothing unsafe about moderate alcohol drinking.

Kids're going to mimic adult behavior -- lots of play is copying adult behavior: Playing house, tending baby dolls, cooking, etc. The question is, why would adults allow kids to mimic NEGATIVE adult behavior?

To you, drinking is negative behaviour. That isn't at all a universal. Most people who drink alcohol have no problems with it. Some people have serious problems with it but far more drink wine with dinner or go out for a couple of cocktails or sit at home and chat and have a drink at night and it's not negative and they'd be happy for their kids to have the same relationship with alcohol that they do.

If it's JUST this one thing, likely there's no problem; however, it's rarely a matter of JUST this one thing. Families who promote fake beer for pre-teens are likely also to push overly-adult behaviors in other ways. It'd be interesting to know if this is a pattern within the family.

Again, no one knows this was 'pushed' on anyone, nor does everyone agree that having a drink is overly adult behaviour. Plenty of people, as evidenced by the thread, give their kids wine if everyone is having wine, etc. It's not specifically adult to those families.

I can tell you that within my extended family, we had lots of negative examples and plenty of access to alcohol.

I don't question that this is true for a lot of people, but a lot of people also grow up in families where there aren't negative examples, where people drink socially or with food or whatever and don't ever have a problem and it's treated as nothing more serious than people who choose to drink coffee or not, it's just no big thing.

 

[cornflake]

So when my DD was little and used to run really high fevers and I would drown her in OJ to keep her hydrated, you are contending that I could have given her 10 O'Doul's and the outcome would have been exactly the same?

The O'Doul's doesn't have any vitamin C but it certainly has less sugar so probably a wash there, healthwise.

 

[MrsPete]

Talking, listening, advising, letting them see that its best to drink responsibily, letting them know the chances of becoming an alcoholic, etc. will help a child navigate the pressures of drinking. Disallowing or allowing a fake beer isn't going to push them down to a life of drinking and it isn't going to stop them from that life either.

Agree with the first sentence. Disagree with the second.

Whoa, where do you get that alcohol isn't good or safe for anyone?

Repetitive studies show it is good for people, and there's nothing unsafe about moderate alcohol drinking.

You can't be serious! Didn't you take 9th grade health? All drinking has a negative effect on the brain (literally destroys brain cells) and on the liver. It also leads to obesity. In moderation, these effects are negligible and the risks are small, but you can't seriously think drinking is good for you.

The one thing that's been studied and proven is that a small amount of red wine is good for the heart.

 

[sam_gordon]

Agree with the first sentence. Disagree with the second. You can't be serious! Didn't you take 9th grade health? All drinking has a negative effect on the brain (literally destroys brain cells) and on the liver. It also leads to obesity. In moderation, these effects are negligible and the risks are small, but you can't seriously think drinking is good for you.

The one thing that's been studied and proven is that a small amount of red wine is good for the heart.

These two sentences don't go together. Is ALL drinking "bad" or is there some "good" drinking?

 

[cornflake]

Agree with the first sentence. Disagree with the second. You can't be serious! Didn't you take 9th grade health? All drinking has a negative effect on the brain (literally destroys brain cells) and on the liver. It also leads to obesity. In moderation, these effects are negligible and the risks are small, but you can't seriously think drinking is good for you.

The one thing that's been studied and proven is that a small amount of red wine is good for the heart.

I am absolutely serious. Don't you read the newspapers?

I could post a dozen studies demonstrating beneficial effects from moderate alcohol consumption.

Like...

this one -

The goal of this study was to evaluate the relationship between intake of total alcohol and bone density.

· Men who consumed 1 to 2 drinks per day had greater bone density compared with nondrinkers. Postmenopausal women who consumed more than 2 drinks per day of total alcohol or wine had greater bone density than nondrinkers. Men who drank more than drinks per day had significantly less bone density.

· The authors concluded “Moderate consumption of alcohol may be beneficial to bone in men and postmenopausal women,” “however, in men, high liquor intakes (> 2 drinks/d) were associated with significantly lower BMD.

this one -

A study reported at the annual Congress of Epidemiology in Toronto found moderate consumption of alcohol to be associated with superior mental function among older women compared to abstainers.

Dr. Meir Stampfer and colleagues at Harvard School of Public Health interviewed over 9,000 women aged 70 to 79 between 1995 and 1999. The women's mental function was assessed with seven different tests. Information about alcohol consumption had been collected at the beginning of the study in 1980 and was updated through 1994.

After adjusting for other factors that might affect mental function, the researchers found that the women who drank in moderation performed significantly beter on five of seven tests. They also performed significantly better on a global score that combined all seven tests.

Dr. Stampfer said that the affect of moderate alcohol consumption on congnitive functioning was equivalent of being one to two years younger.

Like dozens more that have led the CDC to say this -

Researchers analyzed data from CDC's National Health and Nutrition Examination Survey (NHANES) III Mortality Study, a mortality follow-up of NHANES III survey participants aged 17 years and older who were recruited from 1988 to 1994 and followed through 2006.

The researchers defined low-risk health behaviors as never smoking, eating a healthy diet, moderate intensity or vigorous intensity physical activity, and moderate alcohol consumption. According to the 2010 Dietary Guidelines for Americans, men should drink no more than two drinks per day; women, one drink per day.

 

[LisaR]

The O'Doul's doesn't have any vitamin C but it certainly has less sugar so probably a wash there, healthwise.

And if DD had to go to the hospital because the illness got worse and I informed them that I gave her 10 O'Douls to keep her hydrated, what do you think the chances are that she would be removed from my home and I would find myself in front of a judge?

Headline making news:
" Stupid mom gives her sick toddler 10 O'douls in lieu of OJ because she thought they contained an equal amount of alcohol"

I wonder how many on the Dis would come to my defense and say, "Well, really they are about the same amount of alcohol. It is all in the marketing and advertising. I think she did the right thing."

 

[cornflake]

And if DD had to go to the hospital because the illness got worse and I informed them that I gave her 10 O'Douls to keep her hydrated, what do you think the chances are that she would be removed from my home and I would find myself in front of a judge?

Headline making news:
" Stupid mom gives her sick toddler 10 O'douls in lieu of OJ because she thought they contained an equal amount of alcohol"

I wonder how many on the Dis would come to my defense and say, "Well, really they are about the same amount of alcohol. It is all in the marketing and advertising. I think she did the right thing."

I don't think you'd get hauled before a judge for giving someone a non-alcoholic product, no.

 

[beaucoup]

O'Douls is all our poor deployed soldiers can buy on base in Afghanistan.

Maybe his parents are preparing him for deployment.

 

[LisaR]

I don't think you'd get hauled before a judge for giving someone a non-alcoholic product, no.

I'd beg to differ. My 16 y/o can not walk into a store here and buy O'douls so I am going to assume if I gave her 10 of them at the age of 3, I would be lucky if the only thing I get is time in front of a judge.

I'm done with this conversation just because it is starting to bore me. Short attention span! We are all just repeating the same old thing, including myself.

 

[luvsJack]

Agree with the first sentence. Disagree with the second.

I am really curious, are you saying that you think that a parent letting one child at 12-18 years of age drink one fake beer at some point in his teen years is going to lead to abusing alcohol?

You previously said that it was a combination of things. I agree. So with out all the other things in that combo, do you still think that the one act of allowing this drink is going to lead to abuse?

 

[Wishing on a star]

I'll bite....
( I must be bored right now!!!!! )

Anyhow, it is very obvious that a kid 'trying' anything once is not bound to have any huge life-altering effect.
It is always interesting to see where one has to take a point to an incredible extreme to try to disagree.

But, in a family where there the over-riding environment and the message is that to be accepted and to be 'one of the men' (whatever) means you have a beer or other alcoholic beverage in your hand..... YES, I would say that, most definitely, without question, this could have a profound influence. Especially at an age as young as 10-12.

 

[princessmom29]

So when my DD was little and used to run really high fevers and I would drown her in OJ to keep her hydrated, you are contending that I could have given her 10 O'Doul's and the outcome would have been exactly the same?

It probably would have been a wash between the sugar in the OJ and the sodium in the beer, but you would have gotten about the same amount of alcohol and neither is the ideal choice to keep a child hydrated.

And if DD had to go to the hospital because the illness got worse and I informed them that I gave her 10 O'Douls to keep her hydrated, what do you think the chances are that she would be removed from my home and I would find myself in front of a judge?

Headline making news:
" Stupid mom gives her sick toddler 10 O'douls in lieu of OJ because she thought they contained an equal amount of alcohol"

I wonder how many on the Dis would come to my defense and say, "Well, really they are about the same amount of alcohol. It is all in the marketing and advertising. I think she did the right thing."

Odouls is perfectly legal. Someone might have questioned your choice of beverage but no, legally it would be about the same as you chooisng to give her 10 sodas.

I don't think you'd get hauled before a judge for giving someone a non-alcoholic product, no.

exactly.

I'd beg to differ. My 16 y/o can not walk into a store here and buy O'douls so I am going to assume if I gave her 10 of them at the age of 3, I would be lucky if the only thing I get is time in front of a judge.

I'm done with this conversation just because it is starting to bore me. Short attention span! We are all just repeating the same old thing, including myself.

In my state and many others your teen could in fact purchase it, so here, no you would not be in fron t of a judge as it is perfectly legal. You would howeverbe lucky if they didn't make the 3 year old sick based solely on taste.

 

[MrsPete]

I am absolutely serious. Don't you read the newspapers?

I could post a dozen studies demonstrating beneficial effects from moderate alcohol consumption.
-

And on the other hand, here are a couple pieces of evidence that even moderate drinking has its risks -- there's loads of it out there -- mainly dealing with the brain:

A study by researchers at the Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health and other institutions found a link between low to moderate alcohol consumption and a decrease in the brain size of middle-aged adults. Brain atrophy is associated with impaired cognition and motor functions.
The researchers also found that low or moderate consumption did not reduce the risk of stroke, which contradicts the findings of some previous studies.


Brain damage is a common and potentially severe consequence of long-term, heavy alcohol consumption. Even mild-to-moderate drinking can adversely affect cognitive functioning.


And don't overlook the fact that -- for those people who are at risk -- moderate use can become abuse easily. And obesity, which leads to so many other medical conditions, goes along with drinking.

Really, moderate drinking isn't a high-risk activity for adults, but it can't be promoted as a healthy or neutral choice either. Don't doctors and dieticians constantly harp on even moderate drinkers to decrease their consumption?

These two sentences don't go together. Is ALL drinking "bad" or is there some "good" drinking?

One sentence had to do with alcohol's effect on the brain and liver. The other had to do with alcohol's effect on the heart. No contradiction.

I am really curious, are you saying that you think that a parent letting one child at 12-18 years of age drink one fake beer at some point in his teen years is going to lead to abusing alcohol?

You previously said that it was a combination of things. I agree. So with out all the other things in that combo, do you still think that the one act of allowing this drink is going to lead to abuse?

No, I didn't say that one fake beer is going to lead to alcoholism -- that's stretching something to the point that it's ridiculous. Few one-time experiences have the power to change the course of a person's life. What I said is that glamorizing alcohol usage (and fake beer is one way of glamorizing alcohol, letting kids looking like the adults) is often a part of a pattern of behavior, a pattern made up of multiple things, and those patterns can lead to alcoholism.

 

[Principessa1284]

Drinking alcohol does kill brain cells, but doesn't it just kill the old ones that were going to die off soon anyways? You know, to make room for the new ones that we're constantly regenerating? The Buffalo effect - the hunter always takes out the slower, older buffalo (buffaloes?) first and easiest. So, in essences, isn't moderate drinking just like a chemical peel for your brain?

In any case, no, I would not have an issue with a 12 year old drinking an O'Douls. To begin with, it's not my kid, and it's not enough alcohol to do any damage anyways. My mom actually just got some O'Douls at the supermarket tonight. She used to be a pretty hefty drinker (I wouldn't say alcoholic.. she could go days without drinking and stop when she knew she'd have enough) but the new drugs she had to take after she contracted a fun medical condition can't be taken with alcohol, she drinks an occasional O'Douls because she misses the taste. Yes, her doc did OK the O'Douls and said as long as she doesn't take it WITH her pills in the morning, there's not enough alcohol to do any damage if she only has 1 or 2.

That being said, I obviously grew up in a house with alcohol always in the fridge. I never remember being curious about the taste of beer - just the smell of it was enough to turn me off. No type of alcohol has ever, ever appealed to me because I just can't stand the taste. I've tried every beer ever made and it's all just gross to me. I have acquired a slight taste for wine with certain meals to enhance the flavor, but I very rarely buy a bottle to bring home. Oh, I was also given many a virgin daqueri and colada when I was a kid.. I still order them on the virgin side.

 

[cornflake]

Really, moderate drinking isn't a high-risk activity for adults, but it can't be promoted as a healthy or neutral choice either. Don't doctors and dieticians constantly harp on even moderate drinkers to decrease their consumption?

Tell it to the CDC who, as I quoted, listed moderate drinking as one of the four healthy lifestyle choices people should make, along with exercise, healthy eating and not smoking.

And no, doctors and dieticians don't harp on moderate drinkers to decrease their consumption as, as above, moderate drinking is considered a healthy thing.

 

[MrsPete]

Drinking alcohol does kill brain cells, but doesn't it just kill the old ones that were going to die off soon anyways?

No, brain cells -- like nerve cells -- don't regenerate. A newborn baby has all the brain cells it'll ever have. That's why brain injuries are so serious.

Who'd think I'd remember so much from AP Biology so many years ago?

Tell it to the CDC who, as I quoted, listed moderate drinking as one of the four healthy lifestyle choices people should make, along with exercise, healthy eating and not smoking.

And no, doctors and dieticians don't harp on moderate drinkers to decrease their consumption as, as above, moderate drinking is considered a healthy thing.

Doctors and other health professionals promote moderate drinking not as a healthy choice, but as better choice than binge drinking or heavy drinking. Moderate drinking is promoted with the assumption that people are going to drink because it's a social habit that's very ingrained, so moderation is the way to approach it.

You're not going to find a doctor who'll say, "Oh, you don't drink at all? You really should start."

 

[luvsJack]

I'll bite....
( I must be bored right now!!!!! )

Anyhow, it is very obvious that a kid 'trying' anything once is not bound to have any huge life-altering effect.
It is always interesting to see where one has to take a point to an incredible extreme to try to disagree.

But, in a family where there the over-riding environment and the message is that to be accepted and to be 'one of the men' (whatever) means you have a beer or other alcoholic beverage in your hand..... YES, I would say that, most definitely, without question, this could have a profound influence. Especially at an age as young as 10-12.

And YES I would agree with that. I am not the one that has stretched any points.

The OP went to a BBQ, there was one kid there drinking one ODoul's and now on page whatever he is suddenly from an alcoholic family that is pushing him to drink to prove his manhood and has him pegged for a life of drunkeness.

It was one fake beer.

The OP asked if it was appropriate. In what she described, there was nothing inappropriate. IF any of the things everyone has projected on this kid are true than he very may well end up a life long alcohol abuser but we don't know any of this. All we know is that one kid was drinking one fake beer.

 

[luvsJack]

No, I didn't say that one fake beer is going to lead to alcoholism -- that's stretching something to the point that it's ridiculous. Few one-time experiences have the power to change the course of a person's life. What I said is that glamorizing alcohol usage (and fake beer is one way of glamorizing alcohol, letting kids looking like the adults) is often a part of a pattern of behavior, a pattern made up of multiple things, and those patterns can lead to alcoholism.

I am not stretching anything. (see above post) It was one kid drinking one thing one time and you and other posters have stretched into a family of drunks making him drink a fake beer to prove his manhood and prime him for a life of alcohol abuse.

 

[KimR]

You're not going to find a doctor who'll say, "Oh, you don't drink at all? You really should start."

In general, moderate drinkers live longer than both heavy drinkers AND non-drinkers due to the heart-protective effects of alcohol in moderation. The reason doctors do not recommend someone start drinking is due to the possibility of problem drinking or addiction, both of which are worse than not drinking at all.

 

[Wishing on a star]

I am not stretching anything. (see above post) It was one kid drinking one thing one time and you and other posters have stretched into a family of drunks making him drink a fake beer to prove his manhood and prime him for a life of alcohol abuse.

Nope, I have to respectfully disagree.

The OP asked for opinions, and we have opinions.

Everybody has acknowledged that we really don't have enough information about this one particular case. And, we don't.

We have said that we find it odd, and that we would never do this with our own children.

Nobody has said that they would actually take issue with another families choices.. But, in all honesty.... I simply do not see any other reason why a family would be buying O'Doul's for young kids. I really don't.

Sorry but 'Maybe he likes the taste' doesn't cut it for me. As a parent, I learned by the time that my child was one or two years old that there might be many, many, things that my child might like, but that are not good or appropriate.

Again, I think there must be reason's why you are so vested in justifying your viewpoint.