$1 Timeshares?

[littlestar]

You really have to do your homework when it comes to buying a timeshare. They are not easy to sell (especially now). And keep in mind that things change over time (especially with the big developers and exchange companies). Mark it down that things will change and they will try to pick your pocket with some "enhancement" of some sort. So you really have to try to position yourself where you have plenty of wiggle room when it comes to value - or else you're better off renting.

We gave away our Marriott week on Tug's bargain board. The only weeks timeshare I have left is an every other year 2 bedroom lock-off 4th of July week in the North Carolina mountains, DVC points, and Wyndham points deeded at Gatlinburg.

My points memberships have home resorts that I'm happy staying at. And the North Carolina lock-off week splits into two one bedrooms and is a holiday week - so it gives me tremendous value for the maintenance fees paid regardless whether I deposit it in RCI or II. My motto now days is I only own where I get tremendous value - otherwise I'm looking for a deal and paying cash.

 

[wbl2745]

Thanks for all of the great information! In hindsight I believe I made the right decision, buying where I want to stay.

The one comment that the bottom drops out of the market when the maintenance costs exceed the cash cost of booking an equivalent stay and unit is very interesting. Currently we own 210 points at VGC and the maintenance cost for 2011 was $801.85. Our points would give us 8 days in a studio during the Magic Season or 10 days during the Choice Season. The cost of a room at the Grand Californian for those times would likely be a lot higher. (I was going to look up the cost, but the GCH web site isn't working.) I also realize that the original cost of the points figures into this, but I can see how timeshares would cost $1 if the maintenance costs were higher than cash reservations.

Thanks for enlightening me. I'm not really in the market for any more timeshares, but I was curious about the whole affair. I know people at work who have bought into the Marriott Timeshare at Park City, Utah and hated it. They lost a ton of money getting out of that. My uncle has three weeks and he's getting too old to use them and his kids don't want them either. One of my aunts is in the same boat. You don't buy a timeshare to make money.

 

[twinklebug]

This morning news said it is very possible gas will go as high as $6.00 a gallon and unemployment will continue to rise, so I am sure we will see even more if this comes to pass.

Gas prices are up, airfare is up, even the cost of groceries are up. I can't bring up a conversation about when our next trip to WDW is with a lot of people anymore because it's a luxury they can't fathom taking at this time, and I end up defending my right to take a break off to FL for sanity.

DVC is back to being a secret.

 

[ToddyLu]

Gas prices are up, airfare is up, even the cost of groceries are up. I can't bring up a conversation about when our next trip to WDW is with a lot of people anymore because it's a luxury they can't fathom taking at this time, and I end up defending my right to take a break off to FL for sanity.

DVC is back to being a secret.

Ditto !!

 

[culli]

I checked these Ebay timeshares out before we bought DVC and this is what I concluded----the $1 timeshares (or the less than $1000 timeshares) are priced that way where the annual dues to maintain that timeshare is greater than the rack rate to rent the same accomodation for a week.

.

This is a generalization as many are trying to climb out of bad timeshare deals. However, there are some wonderful deals out there well under $1k and many for $1. Of course you need to make sure it is right for you yada yada yada etc. If you know how to work the system and keep your eyes open there are fantastic deals out there. However, things can change and they do almost over night...I get into DVC much cheaper than my DVC MFs much less figuring in purchase price. On top of that it is at properties I like going to, and oh yeah didn't pay over 1k for any of them.

There is so much more to owning a timeshare then what it rents for or who you can rent it from. Trading is an art form that as you progress your knowledge provides tremendous value, this is why when it is brought up about trading DVC for something else the smart money says "don't do it".

 

[shalom]

I get into DVC much cheaper than my DVC MFs much less figuring in purchase price.

Yah. Right now I can trade into DVC for considerably less than $4 a point, but will that be the case when I actually want to do it? Maybe not. A lot of the people who bought something for II in order to trade into DVC are kicking themselves now.

I think one of the reasons DVC resale stays so high is that far more people buying DVC really understand what they're getting than people buying most other timeshares. There may be some high pressure DVC salespeople, but most of them are not. Plus with DVC you're buying a specific type of vacation that's pretty easy to understand; the only unhappy DVC owners are those whose kids have lost interest in Disney, or whose interest in Disney has waned over the years. And even then, they got good use of their ownership for years.

OTOH, people who buy a weeks ownership most places have to learn to negotiate a trading system (RCI or II or whatever) before they can go anywhere else, and I'm amazed at the number of people in my own points system who simply don't understand how it works. If a DVC owner doesn't "get" the whole points thing or doesn't understand you need to reserve early, they still have fair odds of getting somewhere on property when they want to go.

Getting OKW when you wanted BLT just doesn't compare with the situation facing people who reserve late in most points systems. If you're in a points system with a wide variety of choices, odds are good that all the skiing vacations are gone months before ski season, and you're not going to be too happy with the fact that there are plenty of openings on the beach in South Carolina! DVC demands less savvy of its owners, so more owners get good use of it.

 

[Dean]

Yah. Right now I can trade into DVC for considerably less than $4 a point, but will that be the case when I actually want to do it? Maybe not. A lot of the people who bought something for II in order to trade into DVC are kicking themselves now.

Who knows, but at the level of savings and other RCI benefit options, I think it can be well worth the risk for many people. You simply have to buy something that makes sense and works for you even if the DVC option doesn't work out and investigate enough to know you'd have a great chance of exchanging in. This includes knowing you're flexible going in, though as a rule, when DVC members say their flexible, they really aren't. To buy within RCI with the plan of trading into DVC to truly make sense you must know you can travel during off season (Jan, Feb, May, Sep-early Dec), will take any on property resort and can make due in a 1 BR. That's not to say that busier times, higher rated resorts and 2 BR units don't happen, just that they are not common enough to make the risk reasonable as part of the purchase decision.

I totally agree that one has to learn the system and be the "early bird" and that DVC is relatively forgiving for those that take chances by not planning and reserving early. However, if one is willing to learn the system and use that knowledge to their advantage, timesharing in general (DVC and otherwise) can be very rewarding. For those that sit back and take what comes (or can't plan ahead for whatever reason), timeshares can be a black hole with a lot of frustrations. In many ways timesharing really is one member vs another.

 

[culli]

Yah. Right now I can trade into DVC for considerably less than $4 a point, but will that be the case when I actually want to do it? Maybe not. A lot of the people who bought something for II in order to trade into DVC are kicking themselves now.

My point is that not all those $1 timeshares are not worthless or ones that have MFs higher than what you can rent. For those people who bought a timeshare strictly for trading into DVC and only DVC...I really don't feel sorry for them. As a DVC owner I say you want a guarantee to get into DVC BUY DVC!!! Hey I had a TS or 2 I mainly used for easy DVC trades and when they left II I got rid of one and use the other to trade for many of the other great II properties.

I had to bite my tongue when I saw people going crazy that DVC pulled out of II. It bummed me out because it did take away an easy and cheap in for me. I adjusted some things and it is actually easier for me then it ever has to get into DVC with their move to RCI. Do people get in cheaper than me....absolutely! However, I compare my costs to my own MFs, renting from another DVC and rack rates. Plus I don't have the crazy buy in costs. I'm also set up if I can't get in as easy as I can now to use those timeshares for other things including actually using them!

We love Disney and have over 500pts, and have been lucky to trade in and use our dvc pts to make those trips longer and bring family with us. We treat our DVC pts like gold and bank as much as possible when we can. I probably have used an equiv of over 2000 DVC pts in the last 12 months with trades. To do that with DVC pts would be out of our reach. These are all done with timeshares I got for well under the $1k pp that I was referring too in my post.

Time sharing is not an absolute and you need to be on top of changes and understand the system. Those who do benefit greatly from the system, the ones that don't they are usually the people complaining. I agree DVC is very forgiving and easy to use. If people are frustrated with DVC then they really don't belong in timeshares. We slowly add on the DVC points when we can BUT WOW are prices getting out of hand to own DVC.

 

[bookwormde]

As has been said when rental rates are less than maintenance fees the timeshares are virtually worthless.

What concerns me now is seeing lots of RCI reservations at DVC being sold (even though they are not supposed to be) at discounted prices which are not much more than maintenance fees. If this is allowed to continue it will depress DVC value even further.
bookwormde

 

[arthur06]

but wow are prices getting out of hand to own dvc.

+1

 

[JimMIA]

I think one of the reasons DVC resale stays so high is that far more people buying DVC really understand what they're getting than people buying most other timeshares.

The reason DVC resale prices stayed (past tense, not a typo) high is that Disney supported the resale price levels by ROFR. That is no longer true, and has not been for more than a year...and prices have fallen substantially to the point that today DVC resales are priced $35 to more than $50 per point lower than direct prices. In time, I think you will see those prices go even lower, and I'm not talking about 10 years from now.

I personally think very few timeshare owners who purchase from ANY developer know very much about timeshares generally, or their own system in particular. I think DVC owners are generally much LESS knowledgeable, but as others have noted, the DVC system is simpler and more forgiving than most systems.

Plus with DVC you're buying a specific type of vacation that's pretty easy to understand; the only unhappy DVC owners are those whose kids have lost interest in Disney, or whose interest in Disney has waned over the years.

I agree that's probably the majority of the owners who get out of DVC, or want to.

However, I think there is another VERY large group of owners who bought in the last 5 years or so based on very limited understanding and swayed heavily by the thought that they could afford the monthly payments. Today, a combination of economic and personal conditions, the skyrocketing costs of the overall Disney vacation, and other issues have proved those to be poor decisions. Those are the contracts you see listed at bargain-basement prices or being foreclosed or taken back by DVC.

OTOH, people who buy a weeks ownership most places have to learn to negotiate a trading system (RCI or II or whatever) before they can go anywhere else, and I'm amazed at the number of people in my own points system who simply don't understand how it works.

You have to learn any system, including DVC. But not all other timeshare systems are as limited as you think. Many of the better ones have dozens of options within their own system, plus hundreds (or thousands) more through II or RCI.

For example, with DVC, I have a choice of 11 resorts. Seven of those are at Walt Disney World, with the others at Vero Beach, Hilton Head, SC, Disneyland, CA, and Oahu, HI. Beyond those 11 choices, I have to either pay WAY too much in points cost/MFs through one of the non-DVC options, or see what I can find from the less than 600 RCI resorts that can be accessed through DVC.

Last summer, I bought a Wyndham timeshare contract, resale on eBay for less than $2000 including closing costs. With that, I have about 70 Wyndham resorts that are fairly easily bookable online through Wyndham itself. So I have 70 resorts to choose from internally, without needing to exchange -- and for the most part, I can get any of those at 10 months with little difficulty unless there is some special event like Mardi Gras in New Orleans or the Daytona 500 at Daytona. Timeshares are not for last-minute trips generally, but in the last 3 days I've been able to find several examples of very attractive availability for July of THIS year. And then, if I don't use all my points, I can deposit them into RCI and have direct, online access to the full portfolio of more than 6,500 RCI resorts worldwide.

 

[shalom]

What concerns me now is seeing lots of RCI reservations at DVC being sold (even though they are not supposed to be) at discounted prices which are not much more than maintenance fees.

If I owned DVC, I would be more concerned about the Art of Animation resort. Speaking personally, once we discovered Timeshares, there was no going back. So maybe I've got a skewed perspective, but it seems to me there's a fair percentage of people currently renting DVC who'd be just as happy (and maybe even happier) to get a suite at All Star Music, probably meaning they'd be happy to stay at the Art of Animation. My concern would be that Art of Animation will be large enough to skim off a large enough percentage of renters to make a difference.

I agree with Dean when he says that timesharing can be one member competing against another -- but with DVC, you could end up competing against Disney to boot.

 

[shalom]

Timeshares are not for last-minute trips generally, but in the last 3 days I've been able to find several examples of very attractive availability for July of THIS year.

Sure, my timeshare has plenty of availability in July at places I want to go as well. My point is that some people buy into a point system intending to use that system for one thing -- skiing, in my example -- and if they don't understand how to use it or can't make their reservation early enough, they aren't going to get what they wanted out of it. With DVC, most people buying in want to stay at WDW or DL, and most of them can do so. I would think this will continue to be the case for some time, since people who've owned longer would be more interested in the resorts without the parks, thus people who are still learning the system will have pretty good availability when they want to go.

DVC has more happy owners because it's easier for owners to get what they want out of it. People in other points systems tend to be less happy because they bought in with false expectations -- sometimes expectations created by the salesperson, but sometimes expectations that're just plain ol' not understanding how it works. When the system doesn't fit their expectations, some people figure out what they actually have and how to use it, and some people just want to get rid of it. And sometimes it's just a bad fit. I see DVC as kind of inflexible in terms of location, but it works great if you just want to stay onsite - and that's what most people buying into it want to do.

 

[JimMIA]

I see DVC as kind of inflexible in terms of location, but it works great if you just want to stay onsite - and that's what most people buying into it want to do.

I agree -- you can't beat DVC for onsite...because it's the only game in town! And it does work very well for stays at DVC resorts with just a little bit of familiarization and a minimum of hassle.

DVC is an expensive timeshare to buy and use, but DVC owners are not looking for the cheapest alternative. They're looking for good value in onsite accommodations primarily, and DVC certainly provides that.

 

[murcor]

DVC is an expensive timeshare to buy and use, but DVC owners are not looking for the cheapest alternative.

 

[tjkraz]

On several occasions I've dedicated time to investigating the other timeshare options out there. I agree there are some great deals (virtually $0 up-front cost) if you know what you are looking for and make an educated purchase.

What has always kept me from pulling the trigger is no real desire/ability to consistently use the points purchased.

When you buy one of these timeshares, you're making a commitment to $600-800 (or more) worth of dues per year. It's a great price for the accommodations you ultimately receive, but just make sure that you will actually USE the points.

Due to our kids' ages & school schedules, and my wife's vacation allotment, our DVC points are adequate for our current vacation needs. We may take a couple overnight trips per year, but not necessarily to destinations that have a timeshare readily available and not for the dollars we would pay in timeshare dues.

Some timeshares feature every-other-year usage so that's something to consider. If we wanted to spend more time in the WDW area, I would give a LOT of consideration to Wyndham (Bonnet Creek) before adding more DVC points.

In addition to the other suggestions offered, my advice is to make sure that you have a realistic plan for using the points into the foreseeable future. It's not such a great deal if you end up giving points away, letting them expire, taking vacations you really cannot afford, etc. Protect yourself from being the person who has to pay someone else $1K to take the TS off your hands in a few years.

 

[JimMIA]

Some timeshares feature every-other-year usage so that's something to consider. If we wanted to spend more time in the WDW area, I would give a LOT of consideration to Wyndham (Bonnet Creek) before adding more DVC points.

The EOY option is there in some systems, but you have to be careful what you wish for, and as with any timeshare, you need to be sure you fully understand ALL aspects of the program.

For example, Wyndham offers EOY contracts, but there's a catch that was just applied recently. Wyndham MFs are composed of two distinct parts -- the Program Fee, which pays for the administration of the overall system, and the home resort fees, which cover the operating expenses of the resort. In the past, Wyndham had calculated one year's MFs and billed EOY owners for half of that each year because they only get points every other year. This year, they changed that and they now bill the Program Fee every year based on the understandable logic that the owner still is using the system even if they're not receiving points that year. EOY owners were NOT pleased!

So you need to understand what you're buying and how the nuts and bolts of it work. After the fact is no time to find out.

In addition to the other suggestions offered, my advice is to make sure that you have a realistic plan for using the points into the foreseeable future. It's not such a great deal if you end up giving points away, letting them expire, taking vacations you really cannot afford, etc. Protect yourself from being the person who has to pay someone else $1K to take the TS off your hands in a few years.

That's great advice for ANY system, including DVC. DVC, because of the cost factors of both purchase and annual dues, is an especially bad place to over-buy.

Most systems, including DVC and Wyhdham, have ways to manage periods when you won't be using some or all of your points. But, no matter what devices you use, if you buy too many points in the first place those other options (like depositing into RCI) are really just postponing the date when your points expire unused.

 

[Cruelladeville]

I was one of those people who bought Marriott because it was in Interval, and I spent several happy years trading into Disney. I owned DVC as well, but I was able to have more vacations this way...then DVC became RCI I had to find a new way to use Marriott, but I was fortuneate that Marriott has lovely resorts all over the world. NEVERTHELESS, Marriott is one of those resorts that can be had cheaply. My most recent contract was purchased for $5, but I bought it knowing that I would use it, and when I don't want to use it anymore, I'll give it back to Marriott. In effect, it's a throw-away. Every vacation, though, would cover the cost of the dues, and I get a 2 bedroom unit for a week, and sometimes 2 weeks a year. I knew ahead of time that I would never sell this timeshare for a large amount of money, so I can't complain that I'm not making money on my purchase.

 

[BlackRock]

It cannot be the DVC points. Disney has the right first to buy points back from you. They would never let them go for that amount of money.

Beware
BlackRock

 

[BBG-BLT]

My most recent contract was purchased for $5, but I bought it knowing that I would use it, and when I don't want to use it anymore, I'll give it back to Marriott. In effect, it's a throw-away.

Just FYI - Marriott (along with most timeshare resort holders) is no longer accepting timeshares back (they need the MFs). You are responsible until you can get someone to take over the contract (as I found out the hard way).

I guess there's just too many people who don't want the responsibility of the TS fees anymore. That's why there are companies who can charge up to 4K to take a timeshare off your hands.

My brother has Marriott and they won't take it back and I have Paradise Village and they don't accept them back either.