Your DD is just as mean she just says it nicer. What?????

[kt_mom]

This is more of a vent then anything else but advice or opinions or whatever are welcome.

A little backstory: I have one sister (27) and we are about 7 years apart. She has one daugher that is about 10 months older than my DD. The girls have always been close but in the last few years the bickering has gotten really bad.

My sister still lives with my parents, she waits tables/bartends and is going back to school. My parents have basically raised my niece. My mom is no longer working and I pay her to keep my DS while I work. My DH picks up my niece everyday and takes both girls to school and my mom picks them up from school except on days when DH is off early or one of us is off then we get them. So usually two days a week one of us gets them from school.

So my DH calls me after dropping the girls off at school upset because they fought the whole way to school, again. My niece got a new xbox and kinec from my sis last night and when DD said she liked a particular character or something my niece told her that she was stupid or something. But she doesn't just say its stupid or your stupid, DH said she said it real nasty. Which I've heard her do.

My niece is often hateful and mean to DD. I've heard her tell DD that she hates her or just outright ignore her when she feels like it. And my DH said the other morning DD said something my niece didn't like and so she pushed her in the face. Now DD is not a saint by any means. I've seen her pick at my niece and she can be kind of bossy but I've never heard her just be downright hateful, more annoying then anything.

So I called my mom and said that enough was enough and my sister needed to at the very least take her daughter to school at least two days a week. And that they needed to talk to my niece about how she treats DD and do soemthing about it. My mom's response is that she picks them up every day and has to listen to them fight too. And that DD was mean to my niece all the time too that she just doesn't do it in front of us or DH in particular. She said, "DD says mean things to niece she just says it nicer", umm what? That doesn't even make sense.

My mom has always been more mom to my niece then grandparent so its very hard to try to get her to have an objective conversation about the girls. I get defensive of DD, like any mom would, but I try to be objective. I told her if she ever heard DD talk to my niece or anyone the way I hear my niece talk to DD that she better tell me because DD would be in all types of trouble. That we're just not okay with that kind of behavior.

There's so much more its just such a long story. I want so badly for my children to have a normal relationship with my parents but its never going to happen because of my sister and her daughter. Don't get me wrong I love my niece to death and I feel really badly for her because she doesn't have very good social skills and doesn't really have many friends at school and I want her to be happy. But it seems like she is being more and more mean to my DD. And no one but DH and I see the difference in how DD picks at my niece as opposed to how my niece is just downright hateful and mean to DD.

I'm sitting here at work and I just want to cry. I want my kids involved with my parents but its getting harder and harder. I'm thankful that my mom can keep my son while I work. It saves me a little money and he doesn't have to be with strangers. But by the time I pay her $75 a week, and my DH takes my niece to school everyday and then I have to deal with the favoritism and how it seems like they are always trying to make sure that my niece has everything that DD has its just too much.

We took DD shopping last Sunday to that girls store Justice to get some spring clothes. Guess where my sis took my niece Tuesday evening....Justice. Well her tax refund is burning a hole in her pocket and she bougt a xbox and kinec last night. Now DD would love to have one of those but I'm not going to rush out and buy one just because they did. We're not a big gaming family, we have a Wii that we got for free through DH work. Of course after we got the Wii they got one within days.

We bought DD swingset last year and within weeks they had bought one for my neice. DD got a new bed a couple years ago and within weeks they had bought the exact same one for my neice. DD got a puppy two years ago and again within weeks they had bought one for my niece.

We're not getting DD an xbox kinec or a lizard or a fish like my niece has. DD gets mad but I'm just not going to foster that kind of thinking. Life is not fair and you can't have stuff just because someone else does. But it sure is hard when she sees it day in and day out with them. We try to tell her that we aren't going to buy every new thing just because we want it or because someone else has it. But we do save our money and we are going to go back to Disney World this year and also to the beach this summer.

Okay, I've ranted long enough. Sorry for being so long winded its just I'm so frustrated and I have no real outlet.

 

[ols386]

Wow, it really sounds like your sister is setting up her daughter for failure (and your mother isn't exactly helping the situation).

If she grows up thinking that she should get everything that others get, she will be sadly disappointed when she becomes an adult living in the real.

 

[horseshowmom]

This is more of a vent then anything else but advice or opinions or whatever are welcome.

A little backstory: I have one sister (27) and we are about 7 years apart. She has one daugher that is about 10 months older than my DD. The girls have always been close but in the last few years the bickering has gotten really bad.

My sister still lives with my parents, she waits tables/bartends and is going back to school. My parents have basically raised my niece. My mom is no longer working and I pay her to keep my DS while I work. My DH picks up my niece everyday and takes both girls to school and my mom picks them up from school except on days when DH is off early or one of us is off then we get them. So usually two days a week one of us gets them from school.

So my DH calls me after dropping the girls off at school upset because they fought the whole way to school, again. My niece got a new xbox and kinec from my sis last night and when DD said she liked a particular character or something my niece told her that she was stupid or something. But she doesn't just say its stupid or your stupid, DH said she said it real nasty. Which I've heard her do.

My niece is often hateful and mean to DD. I've heard her tell DD that she hates her or just outright ignore her when she feels like it. And my DH said the other morning DD said something my niece didn't like and so she pushed her in the face. Now DD is not a saint by any means. I've seen her pick at my niece and she can be kind of bossy but I've never heard her just be downright hateful, more annoying then anything.

So I called my mom and said that enough was enough and my sister needed to at the very least take her daughter to school at least two days a week. And that they needed to talk to my niece about how she treats DD and do soemthing about it. My mom's response is that she picks them up every day and has to listen to them fight too. And that DD was mean to my niece all the time too that she just doesn't do it in front of us or DH in particular. She said, "DD says mean things to niece she just says it nicer", umm what? That doesn't even make sense.

My mom has always been more mom to my niece then grandparent so its very hard to try to get her to have an objective conversation about the girls. I get defensive of DD, like any mom would, but I try to be objective. I told her if she ever heard DD talk to my niece or anyone the way I hear my niece talk to DD that she better tell me because DD would be in all types of trouble. That we're just not okay with that kind of behavior.

There's so much more its just such a long story. I want so badly for my children to have a normal relationship with my parents but its never going to happen because of my sister and her daughter. Don't get me wrong I love my niece to death and I feel really badly for her because she doesn't have very good social skills and doesn't really have many friends at school and I want her to be happy. But it seems like she is being more and more mean to my DD. And no one but DH and I see the difference in how DD picks at my niece as opposed to how my niece is just downright hateful and mean to DD.

I'm sitting here at work and I just want to cry. I want my kids involved with my parents but its getting harder and harder. I'm thankful that my mom can keep my son while I work. It saves me a little money and he doesn't have to be with strangers. But by the time I pay her $75 a week, and my DH takes my niece to school everyday and then I have to deal with the favoritism and how it seems like they are always trying to make sure that my niece has everything that DD has its just too much.

We took DD shopping last Sunday to that girls store Justice to get some spring clothes. Guess where my sis took my niece Tuesday evening....Justice. Well her tax refund is burning a hole in her pocket and she bougt a xbox and kinec last night. Now DD would love to have one of those but I'm not going to rush out and buy one just because they did. We're not a big gaming family, we have a Wii that we got for free through DH work. Of course after we got the Wii they got one within days.

We bought DD swingset last year and within weeks they had bought one for my neice. DD got a new bed a couple years ago and within weeks they had bought the exact same one for my neice. DD got a puppy two years ago and again within weeks they had bought one for my niece.

We're not getting DD an xbox kinec or a lizard or a fish like my niece has. DD gets mad but I'm just not going to foster that kind of thinking. Life is not fair and you can't have stuff just because someone else does. But it sure is hard when she sees it day in and day out with them. We try to tell her that we aren't going to buy every new thing just because we want it or because someone else has it. But we do save our money and we are going to go back to Disney World this year and also to the beach this summer.

Okay, I've ranted long enough. Sorry for being so long winded its just I'm so frustrated and I have no real outlet.

If I were in your situation, a couple of things come to mind.

First, I would deal with your daughter's "picking" at your niece. While I think it's unfortunate that your DN is nasty to your daughter, I don't see a big difference in one inappropriate behavior over the other. After your daughter gets her own house in order, then you will have a better position from which to discuss your concerns.

Regarding the other niece getting the things you daughter gets, I guess I just wouldn't care. I just don't see the issue. I take care of my own child, and what the rest of the world does is up to them. Your daughter needs to recognize that you are her parent and that you make the decisions - regardless of other people's actions.

Lastly, if this is a genuine concern of yours, you may need to make some changes in how much time they spend together although you'll have to weigh the benefits and the negatives in the changes you would have to make.

 

[Hannathy]

Until your DD is the innocent victim you really can't complain. And I will say some of the nastiest girls my DD ever ran into where the ones who were mean while "saying it nice" I know exactly what your Mom is saying, and that can be vicious. So until your DD quits being mean you have no right to tell your niece to not be mean. I'll take an outright mean girl anyday over the do it nice ones.

It is also the old you get what you pay for. If you are unhappy with the situation change it, pay for your DD to go elsewhere or deal with the problems that come with the situation. Which is more important the money or the fighting? Don't use your Mom for childcare.

And who cares if they get the same stuff, that will happen all her life whether it is friends or relatives or neighbors.

 

[cabanafrau]

A previous poster got it right when she suggested you need to address your DD picking at your niece and your daughter getting her house in order.

Honestly, my gut reaction from reading what you said is that you are not owning yours or your daughter's parts in this issue. Worry about sweeping your own doorstep and see where that gets you. If there are still issues, take a break from the daily grind w/ your DN & your parents, seek alternate daycare for your son. That might take a lot of pressure off the situation & change the dynamics. If nothing else, it should change the way your own household feels.

 

[Tinkermommy]

Until your DD is the innocent victim you really can't complain. And I will say some of the nastiest girls my DD ever ran into where the ones who were mean while "saying it nice" I know exactly what your Mom is saying, and that can be vicious. So until your DD quits being mean you have no right to tell your niece to not be mean. I'll take an outright mean girl anyday over the do it nice ones.

It is also the old you get what you pay for. If you are unhappy with the situation change it, pay for your DD to go elsewhere or deal with the problems that come with the situation. Which is more important the money or the fighting? Don't use your Mom for childcare.

And who cares if they get the same stuff, that will happen all her life whether it is friends or relatives or neighbors.

I agree with this.

As for saying mean things "nicely" its called being passive aggressive and it's very bit as mean and a lot more devious than saying things directly.

 

[cabanafrau]

Until your DD is the innocent victim you really can't complain. And I will say some of the nastiest girls my DD ever ran into where the ones who were mean while "saying it nice" I know exactly what your Mom is saying, and that can be vicious. So until your DD quits being mean you have no right to tell your niece to not be mean. I'll take an outright mean girl anyday over the do it nice ones.

It is also the old you get what you pay for. If you are unhappy with the situation change it, pay for your DD to go elsewhere or deal with the problems that come with the situation. Which is more important the money or the fighting? Don't use your Mom for childcare.

And who cares if they get the same stuff, that will happen all her life whether it is friends or relatives or neighbors.

It's true, ironically many mean girls are allowed to operate & gain power as a mean girl because they present a better face to adults. Teachers need serious training in this area because they can unwittingly foster bullying.

 

[bellarella]

I'm a big fan of living in reality rather than pining away for an ideal world.

From what you've said, it seems pretty clear that the current situation isn't working. Having a "normal" relationship with your mother really won't be possible until you remove her from having to be your children's childcare providers. I personally don't think that it usually works to have family members be responsible for child care on a regular basis. I want my parents to be grandparents, not the ones responsible for day-to-day discipline issues.

In your shoes, I would find other child care arrangements and work on patching up family relationships after that. Your mother's characterization of your daughter's behavior also makes total sense to me. I'm not saying she's right, but I have seen the "nice mean girls" and agree that the behavior is no better than the out and out nasty ones.

 

[melissapealo]

I agree that if your daughter is being mean then you really can't complain. I'd work on getting her to not say mean things, even in replying to your niece and then once it's under control say something. Just because someone says mean things nicer than another person doesn't make it right, or even okay. Quite honestly your mother is probably right, your daughter is probably hiding her mean habits more from you and your husband. You may not see the whole picture. What your niece does is wrong but so is what your daughter does.

 

[shortbun]

Sounds awful. I'd keep the girls apart as much as possible. the other adults in this equation don't sound particularly stable or logical. Does your daughter's school have latch key? Time to get another after school plan, eh?

 

[mickeyboat]

There are family dynamics here that extend way beyond your DD's relationship with your neice. It sounds to me like you and your sister have some real jealousy issues going on here and your DDs have picked up on the dynamic and are replicating it in their dealings with one another.

Teach your daughter that teasing can be just as cruel as outright hateful behavior.

Encourage your daughter to make some other friends at school.

 

[The Mystery Machine]

I understand the jealousy and frustration dynamic that is going on here. I mean it would take a saint to ignore all the baloney here.

You just need to be sympathetic to the dynamics of your family with regards to the gifts and the fact that niece gets grandma 100% of the time and is closer with her than your dd.

The jealousy factor here is enormous with you and your dd. You are keeping tabs on what they are buying which is not a good sign.

You have several options here....

1) Teach your dd to stop fighting with the niece. It takes 2 to tango and as long as your dd engages niece then they are going to bicker. Do some role playing, give your dd canned responses to niece's comments, etc.

2) Ignore the crap. If your dd and niece want to fight and bicker then so be it.

3) Tell dd she is not allowed to fight with her niece and then punish her for doing so. Explain you are sick of the crap and since she cannot punish the niece you are going to punish her.

4) Get other childcare and be done with it. Of course there are no guarantees that your dd is not going to go and do the same thing in another situation. However sounds like it is time for a "time out" with your mom & niece.

Bottom line, pick a course of action and be firm with your dd.

 

[Scurvy]

My niece is often hateful and mean to DD. I've heard her tell DD that she hates her or just outright ignore her when she feels like it. And my DH said the other morning DD said something my niece didn't like and so she pushed her in the face. Now DD is not a saint by any means. I've seen her pick at my niece and she can be kind of bossy but I've never heard her just be downright hateful, more annoying then anything.

So I called my mom and said that enough was enough and my sister needed to at the very least take her daughter to school at least two days a week. And that they needed to talk to my niece about how she treats DD and do soemthing about it. My mom's response is that she picks them up every day and has to listen to them fight too. And that DD was mean to my niece all the time too that she just doesn't do it in front of us or DH in particular. She said, "DD says mean things to niece she just says it nicer", umm what? That doesn't even make sense.

It does make sense. Some of the meanest girls I've known were ones who had mastered the art of saying horrible things in a nice way. Plus, they know when they can get away with it and when they should keep quiet in fron of certain adults. Mean girls like that can often drive other girls to react by saying terribly mean and nasty things so the other girls end up looking much worse than the mean girl does. Adults tend to only notice the other girls' reactions and not the original girls' constant more subtle picking. It sounds to me like you might not be completely aware of what's going on between your daughter and her cousin.

We're not a big gaming family, we have a Wii that we got for free through DH work. Of course after we got the Wii they got one within days.

We bought DD swingset last year and within weeks they had bought one for my neice. DD got a new bed a couple years ago and within weeks they had bought the exact same one for my neice. DD got a puppy two years ago and again within weeks they had bought one for my niece.

Maybe they just don't want anyone to have any fun things that their daughter doesn't have. But there's another possible explanation. There have been lots of times when my husband and I have bought things after hearing my sister and her husband talk about how great those things are. Expecially when it comes to video games, we often don't realize we would enjoy something until we hear how much they love theirs. Maybe your niece doesn't want the things you have until after she hears your daughter talk about how much she enjoys them, and then she thinks she would like having them also. There's nothing wrong with her parents buying her things they think she'd enjoy.

It sounds like it might be a good idea to keep the girls apart for a while. Regardless of which one is starting the fights, both are now participating and they could probably use a break from each other.

 

[Wall-E1]

My mom has always been more mom to my niece then grandparent so its very hard to try to get her to have an objective conversation about the girls.

Maybe you're not being entirely objective either. It seems that you feel that your mother has a more motherly relationship with the niece, and this perhaps bothers you.

And no one but DH and I see the difference in how DD picks at my niece as opposed to how my niece is just downright hateful and mean to DD.

Maybe no one else sees a difference because there is no difference. Parents don't always look objectively at their own child's behavior.

I have to deal with the favoritism and how it seems like they are always trying to make sure that my niece has everything that DD has its just too much.

I'm sitting here at work and I just want to cry. We took DD shopping last Sunday to that girls store Justice to get some spring clothes. Guess where my sis took my niece Tuesday evening....Justice. Well her tax refund is burning a hole in her pocket and she bougt a xbox and kinec last night. Now DD would love to have one of those but I'm not going to rush out and buy one just because they did. We're not a big gaming family, we have a Wii that we got for free through DH work. Of course after we got the Wii they got one within days.

We bought DD swingset last year and within weeks they had bought one for my neice. DD got a new bed a couple years ago and within weeks they had bought the exact same one for my neice. DD got a puppy two years ago and again within weeks they had bought one for my niece.

Why would any of this matter? My son has two nephews. They play at each other's houses. Sometimes, my son will come home and tell me about something he really liked there (a video game, tech toy, etc.). I'll sometimes get him the same thing. My sister is the same way. She has called me and asked me where I got something. I just don't see why a child getting a puppy, swing set, or bed would have you frustrated and on the verge of tears. It seems like sibling rivalry and jealousy are at play in your situation, more so than the back and forth between the two girls.

 

[Northstar]

Just to add one more option to Mystery Machine's list....

You can choose to address just the issue of fighting and disrespect in your car on the drive to school.
This is one situation you can control. Tell both girls that their fighting is unacceptable. If they can't talk calmly and politely to each other, then they will be silent and ignore each other. The first sign of fighting and your DH just tells them, "No more talking on this trip." If they test the rule, the penalty for your DN is that she is not going to get a drive to school in your car. You can use whatever penalty you think appropriate for your DD, but it should be more than a slap on the wrist.

It sounds as if you're afraid your mother will withdraw child care and the drive home from school if you just refuse to take your niece to school. If that's the case, I think you are certainly going to have to find other child care arrangements. Too many strings attached.

 

[okeydokey]

I think the only way this situation is going to change is if YOU change it. Send your son to another care giver. Get your own DD back and forth to school yourselves and do not take the niece. If they can't be together without making each other and those around them miserable, then they need to not be around each other anymore, at least for a while. This will take a sacrifice on your part, so only you can decide if it is worth it. Good luck.

 

[kt_mom]

Thanks for the feedback. Just to answer a few of the comments.

DD does get in trouble for arguing or being mean to my niece. I can't punish my niece but I can punish DD. But she doesn't have some passive agressive mean girl thing going on. She can be a little bossy and I know that really makes my niece mad and its something she gets in trouble for. And she always tattles and I know that really makes my neice mad. And its also something we have discussed with her and although I don't punish her for it we are trying to help her understand when you should tattle and when you should ignore something and just do your own thing. You don't need to tattle because the other person doesn't want to play what you want to play. Just find something to do on your own and move on, you know.


There are issues with my sister and I. I wish she would grow up. I wish she would be a better parent, or a parent at all sometimes. I wish my parents would quit enabling her behavior. But I can't change any of this and I try to stay out of it as much as I can to the extent that it doesn't involve me.

Someone said something about me monitoring what they buy, but its more the other way around. We actually try not to discuss things we purchase or don't purchase. And there's more to this then just realizing that you might enjoy something because someone else gets it. Its more of a keeping up thing and we just don't play. Its just hard for DD sometimes I think to understand that just because niece got xyz doesn't mean DD will when DD knows that if she get abc that niece will get it. We did our 1 and only trip to Disney with all of them a couple years ago and my DH said he will never go with them again for the sole fact that he can't stand how they have to go behind and make sure that niece gets everything DD gets. They would purchase the souveniers they wanted and I didn't rush in and get it for DD just because. She had to pick and choose what she wanted to spend her money on and she waited and only purchased the things she truly wanted.

I know the only person I can work on is DD. And we do. But she doesn't have these problems with other friends. She gets along great with the girls at school and her best friend outside of school. She really is a sweet kid and would never even think of telling my niece that she hated her. She was asking the other day to have a sleepover and named off 4 or 5 little girls and i said no, only two and she immediately cut out everyone but my niece and said she would have to think about who to invite as the other person.

I love my niece and its so hard to watch the two girls go through this. I just don't tolerate it when they are at my house and they tend to act better once they get in the groove of it and realize that I just don't tolerate it, from either of them. I think things would be better if my parents would put their foot down with my niece a little more. It might make her mad now but it would be so much better for her in the long run.

 

[Kitzka]

Unfortunately, i don't think there is much you can do about how your mother and sister treat your DN. As frustrating as it is that your DN seems to be getting everything your DD is getting you can't do anything about that. my DD went through a similar situation with a friend about 2 years ago. The girl wanted to be like my DD and would get EVERYTHING my DD got. The parents also lavished her with things they could not afford but they were overcompensating, which i think is what your sister and mother are doing. They feel guilty about the lot your DN has been given.

As to the behavior, normally, i would say they need a break from one another. Perhaps your DD could spend more time with other friends? it seems as if the girls spend a lot of time together and between your daughter being annoyed and your DN seeming jealous, a little time apart may be long overdue.

Lara

 

[kt_mom]

It sounds as if you're afraid your mother will withdraw child care and the drive home from school if you just refuse to take your niece to school. If that's the case, I think you are certainly going to have to find other child care arrangements. Too many strings attached.

I think this is a big part of my issue. Everything is strings attached for us. She'll keep DS, which I pay for, but she needs us to take niece to school so she doesn't have to take him out in the mornings.

And its an issue with me towards my sister because I really wish she would get up off her lazy butt and take her own kid to school. But they can't count on her even being home in the morning to take niece even if she says she will. And I wish that she would be a parent so they didn't have to. Then maybe they could be grandparents to both girls. (its all different with DS)

I like knowing that my DS is with someone every day that loves him since he can't be with me. And my DH insists that we take my niece even when my mom doesn't have DS because he doesn't think it should fall on her to have to and he knows my sis won't.

Its just a messed up situation all the way around. And I know that the only way to change it is to remove us from the equation but it really sucks to feel that way about your family.

 

[mjkacmom]

You say your mom can't be objective about judging the behavior of your niece vs. your child, because she is more like a mother to her. Well, you can't really be objective about the behavior of your child, because you are her mother. As parents, we always see the behavior of the other child as worse than our child.

It sounds like these girls spend enough time together that they're more like siblings than cousins (my kids see their cousins a few times a year). Therefore, they will treat each other more like siblings than cousins. My kids do and say things to each other that they would never say to a friend. And they generally get along well!

It sounds like you are jealous about the fact that your mom spends more time with your niece, and you feel like she favors her. I think the fact that she stated they are pretty much equally mean to each other speaks volumes - she's not saying your dd is the only troublemaker. As for your sister buying things your dd has - so what? It will be her problem when her dd finally has to realize she can't have something just because someone else has it. And you seem upset that your sister bought your niece something your dd doesn't have. Is this the first time she got something before your dd got the same item?

ETA - I just see that your ds is still a baby, so your dd's only experience with being a sibling is the relationship she has with your niece. If they were siblings, this would be very normal behavior, and since they're pretty close, I'd just let them work it out on their own/