xPass or Premium FASTPASS? Yes, I'm Starting ANOTHER FP Forum

[Kona65]

Let's put it this way. This is the first time in a number of years, that we will not be going to WDW for our vacation. Until Disney can sort this mess out, we will be taking our $4,000 and going some other place. This year we are heading out west. Time to see what else America has to offer.

 

[mesaboy2]

And since Disney wants guests to stay onsite, wouldn't this make sense for them as well? This is why, if we wanted to visit US, we would stay onsite as well. When we stayed there last year, we stayed at Portofino and walked over every day. Using FOTL, we found we had a much more relaxing vacation and did spend a little more time at the resort and the shopping areas.

Your forgetting that UO has 3 onsite hotels, WDW has more than 20. The unlimited FOTL concept at Uni for onsites works because of the relatively small number of eligible guests. The system would grind to a halt if Disney implemented it without restrictions.

 

[dvcdisney]

Your forgetting that UO has 3 onsite hotels, WDW has more than 20. The unlimited FOTL concept at Uni for onsites works because of the relatively small number of eligible guests. The system would grind to a halt if Disney implemented it without restrictions.

I agree. I didn't think Disney would offer FOTL to everyone onsite. By the numbers alone, it would make the fp redundant. All I'm referring to is that incentives like this would increase the onsite bookings. So why wouldn't Disney do it?

Many are upset that Disney may decide that only Deluxe resort guest will be given this "fastpass". There so many complaints that Disney shouldn't do this because it would create a class system. But it's already there. If Disney didn't want this, then all the resorts would be in the same category. They wouldn't have concierge or VIP tickets. But like everything in life, there are levels.

I do think that if Disney does implement this "fastpass" as unlimited, it would only be offered to Deluxe resort guests. But, similarly to US FOTL, there is the Express pass that can be purchased and used as one time only for each ride. This would be the restriction. I would think, though, that guests in Moderates and Values, as well as those with APs and FL residents would be given a discounted rate. I can definitely see Disney doing this and making it work.

 

[DisneyTraveler18]

I agree. I didn't think Disney would offer FOTL to everyone onsite. By the numbers alone, it would make the fp redundant. All I'm referring to is that incentives like this would increase the onsite bookings. So why wouldn't Disney do it?

Many are upset that Disney may decide that only Deluxe resort guest will be given this "fastpass". There so many complaints that Disney shouldn't do this because it would create a class system. But it's already there. If Disney didn't want this, then all the resorts would be in the same category. They wouldn't have concierge or VIP tickets. But like everything in life, there are levels.

I do think that if Disney does implement this "fastpass" as unlimited, it would only be offered to Deluxe resort guests. But, similarly to US FOTL, there is the Express pass that can be purchased and used as one time only for each ride. This would be the restriction. I would think, though, that guests in Moderates and Values, as well as those with APs and FL residents would be given a discounted rate. I can definitely see Disney doing this and making it work.

This.

 

[andyman8]

Bump

 

[Colleen27]

Many are upset that Disney may decide that only Deluxe resort guest will be given this "fastpass". There so many complaints that Disney shouldn't do this because it would create a class system. But it's already there. If Disney didn't want this, then all the resorts would be in the same category. They wouldn't have concierge or VIP tickets. But like everything in life, there are levels.

I do think that if Disney does implement this "fastpass" as unlimited, it would only be offered to Deluxe resort guests. But, similarly to US FOTL, there is the Express pass that can be purchased and used as one time only for each ride. This would be the restriction. I would think, though, that guests in Moderates and Values, as well as those with APs and FL residents would be given a discounted rate. I can definitely see Disney doing this and making it work.

The bolded is only part of the complaint, though... This idea would create a class system by diminishing the experience for non-deluxe/offsite/day guests. The class system as it exists now doesn't generally take away from one to offer better to another, and in the ways it does (like VIP tours with FOTL access) are so limited by price as to be unnoticeable to guests.

On their face the numbers seem as though they'd prevent any unlimited application of this system. The potential for 10 or 20 thousand guests (assuming deluxe only) to have unlimited FP access to rides that have capacity as low as 10K per day is a system where you pretty much have to have Xpass if you want to ride TSM. For the system to co-exist with a reasonably unchanged experience for non-Xpass guests the it would have to be limited both by time window and number of times you can select the same attraction in one day, but both of those things would reduce the marketability of the Xpass as a paid upgrade. I don't think it is a big leap to see this as a step in the same direction Universal has taken - paid FOTL replacing the free system entirely, leaving guests who can't/won't pay for the upgrade to the standby queues.

 

[doconeill]

The bolded is only part of the complaint, though... This idea would create a class system by diminishing the experience for non-deluxe/offsite/day guests. The class system as it exists now doesn't generally take away from one to offer better to another, and in the ways it does (like VIP tours with FOTL access) are so limited by price as to be unnoticeable to guests.

On their face the numbers seem as though they'd prevent any unlimited application of this system. The potential for 10 or 20 thousand guests (assuming deluxe only) to have unlimited FP access to rides that have capacity as low as 10K per day is a system where you pretty much have to have Xpass if you want to ride TSM. For the system to co-exist with a reasonably unchanged experience for non-Xpass guests the it would have to be limited both by time window and number of times you can select the same attraction in one day, but both of those things would reduce the marketability of the Xpass as a paid upgrade. I don't think it is a big leap to see this as a step in the same direction Universal has taken - paid FOTL replacing the free system entirely, leaving guests who can't/won't pay for the upgrade to the standby queues.

I don't know if a "once per attraction" limitation would necessarily reduce the value, and I see it as a reasonable limitation...it basically guarantees you to get on each attraction once that day (assuming all other requirements are met). I'm sure plenty of guests would be glad for that. The power-tourers, however, might not. Then again, we don't know if it would preclude the use of normal FPs, either.

 

[GuardMusic]

I first read about this elsewhere yesterday & knew I'd need to read the entire thread here (which I have). At this point, I'm all for XPass - and know I'm not loaded. I do need to give this more through on how I'll feel when I retire to FL in about 20-25 years.

Here is the response I posted on another site yesterday:
I'm probably on the "other side" of this issue. By no means are we flush with cash and do have to plan pretty far in advance for our Disney trips (mostly WDW & DCL). Yet when I read this article I was/am all for XPass.

First, I presumed by "deluxe" it would also include DVC, which we regularly stay at (on a friend's points, not own). So that needs clarification.

If it's (eventually) open to anyone, then it's no different than other "special" offerings like firework cruises, VIP tours, firework dessert reception, etc. We used to watch the fireworks for free at Tomorrowland Terrace. Now we decide from trip to trip if we want to pay for the reception to have those seats or not.

Another example is the 3D Dessert Reception (w/ VIP Illuminations viewing) during Food & Wine. I would never do this with my mom, but have done it twice with BFF. Last year we even upgraded to the Sweet Seats.

But perhaps the best example is the Dining Reservations. This costs nothing, but it is a regular occurrence for a table service restaurant to be booked with reservations, and not available to walk-ups. Some would say this is unfair; that there should be no reservations. It's even more of a factor on DCL with the silver, gold, & platinum levels. Yes, I couldn't wait to get to gold just to book Palo earlier. And getting that "perk" is incredibly expensive, as the only way to get there is take more cruises!

As long as Disney maintains a high visitor count, high demand for resort hotel rooms, etc., they can "afford" to put these kinds of measures in place. Why? Because Disney people like us, even though we gripe about it, determine the offerings are worth it (based on want or need) and find a way to fork out the $.

Everyone has their own wants and limitations. Do I want a private cabana on Castaway Cay. You bet, but $500/day is too rich for me, so I'm satisfied with getting up a bit earlier for a good seat on the beach.

Frankly, I feel my time is very valuable, as is effortlessly traveling with my elderly mother. She can't "run" to an attraction at opening or do all-day/commando style visits anymore. If I have the OPTION of paying more for a more relaxing/less taxing vacation, it is most likely worth it for me and my family. And as much as we initially hate these types of changes with Disney, in the end we know they create incredible experiences for us.

Personally, I hope we get to try out some form of this for our November visit.
Gayle

 

[dvcdisney]

The bolded is only part of the complaint, though... This idea would create a class system by diminishing the experience for non-deluxe/offsite/day guests. The class system as it exists now doesn't generally take away from one to offer better to another, and in the ways it does (like VIP tours with FOTL access) are so limited by price as to be unnoticeable to guests.

On their face the numbers seem as though they'd prevent any unlimited application of this system. The potential for 10 or 20 thousand guests (assuming deluxe only) to have unlimited FP access to rides that have capacity as low as 10K per day is a system where you pretty much have to have Xpass if you want to ride TSM. For the system to co-exist with a reasonably unchanged experience for non-Xpass guests the it would have to be limited both by time window and number of times you can select the same attraction in one day, but both of those things would reduce the marketability of the Xpass as a paid upgrade. I don't think it is a big leap to see this as a step in the same direction Universal has taken - paid FOTL replacing the free system entirely, leaving guests who can't/won't pay for the upgrade to the standby queues.

I guess I don't see it as a creating a class difference. I view it as Disney (or any other company) providing extra perks to those who are increasing their profits. If all the resorts cost the same, but for some reason, the Deluxe resort were only offered to those whose personal worth is over 1 million, then Disney decides to provide only these resort guest with FOTL, then yes --- definitely a class system. But if Deluxe resort guest are paying more, they should be entitled to more perks. I would feel the same if they started offering Deluxe resort guest 20 days ahead for ADRs, Moderate with 10 days and Value with 5 days ahead. Disney wants to encourage people to book Deluxe resorts vs Value resorts, so why would this be an issue? Disney is not forsaking Value resorts guests. They are offered great prices for the rooms.

I think Disney had done a great job of offering accomodations to every type of budget. But, as a business, they should promote the more costly accomodations with incentives. If one usually books Moderate resorts and sees that Deluxe resorts get a type of unlimited fastpass, in some cases, one would find it worth it to upgrade. And yes, there are many others who will not or cannot, but that's how it goes.

I guess I'm quite surprised how many people raise Disney to a standard that no other company can manage. They are a business like others businesses. Even if, as many have said in the forum, that Walt would be upset if he was still alive, I think he would still have to find ways to make a profit in order to continue to offer Disney to everyone.

 

[doconeill]

I guess I don't see it as a creating a class difference. I view it as Disney (or any other company) providing extra perks to those who are increasing their profits. If all the resorts cost the same, but for some reason, the Deluxe resort were only offered to those whose personal worth is over 1 million, then Disney decides to provide only these resort guest with FOTL, then yes --- definitely a class system. But if Deluxe resort guest are paying more, they should be entitled to more perks. I would feel the same if they started offering Deluxe resort guest 20 days ahead for ADRs, Moderate with 10 days and Value with 5 days ahead. Disney wants to encourage people to book Deluxe resorts vs Value resorts, so why would this be an issue? Disney is not forsaking Value resorts guests. They are offered great prices for the rooms.

I think Disney had done a great job of offering accomodations to every type of budget. But, as a business, they should promote the more costly accomodations with incentives. If one usually books Moderate resorts and sees that Deluxe resorts get a type of unlimited fastpass, in some cases, one would find it worth it to upgrade. And yes, there are many others who will not or cannot, but that's how it goes.

I guess I'm quite surprised how many people raise Disney to a standard that no other company can manage. They are a business like others businesses. Even if, as many have said in the forum, that Walt would be upset if he was still alive, I think he would still have to find ways to make a profit in order to continue to offer Disney to everyone.

The counter argument though is that the deluxe guests are paying more for the amenities of the resort itself. This would be the first time that resort classes had different benefits within the parks themselves (that I am aware of).

 

[dvcdisney]

I first read about this elsewhere yesterday & knew I'd need to read the entire thread here (which I have). At this point, I'm all for XPass - and know I'm not loaded. I do need to give this more through on how I'll feel when I retire to FL in about 20-25 years.

Here is the response I posted on another site yesterday:
I'm probably on the "other side" of this issue. By no means are we flush with cash and do have to plan pretty far in advance for our Disney trips (mostly WDW & DCL). Yet when I read this article I was/am all for XPass.

First, I presumed by "deluxe" it would also include DVC, which we regularly stay at (on a friend's points, not own). So that needs clarification.

If it's (eventually) open to anyone, then it's no different than other "special" offerings like firework cruises, VIP tours, firework dessert reception, etc. We used to watch the fireworks for free at Tomorrowland Terrace. Now we decide from trip to trip if we want to pay for the reception to have those seats or not.

Another example is the 3D Dessert Reception (w/ VIP Illuminations viewing) during Food & Wine. I would never do this with my mom, but have done it twice with BFF. Last year we even upgraded to the Sweet Seats.

But perhaps the best example is the Dining Reservations. This costs nothing, but it is a regular occurrence for a table service restaurant to be booked with reservations, and not available to walk-ups. Some would say this is unfair; that there should be no reservations. It's even more of a factor on DCL with the silver, gold, & platinum levels. Yes, I couldn't wait to get to gold just to book Palo earlier. And getting that "perk" is incredibly expensive, as the only way to get there is take more cruises!

As long as Disney maintains a high visitor count, high demand for resort hotel rooms, etc., they can "afford" to put these kinds of measures in place. Why? Because Disney people like us, even though we gripe about it, determine the offerings are worth it (based on want or need) and find a way to fork out the $.

Everyone has their own wants and limitations. Do I want a private cabana on Castaway Cay. You bet, but $500/day is too rich for me, so I'm satisfied with getting up a bit earlier for a good seat on the beach.

Frankly, I feel my time is very valuable, as is effortlessly traveling with my elderly mother. She can't "run" to an attraction at opening or do all-day/commando style visits anymore. If I have the OPTION of paying more for a more relaxing/less taxing vacation, it is most likely worth it for me and my family. And as much as we initially hate these types of changes with Disney, in the end we know they create incredible experiences for us.

Personally, I hope we get to try out some form of this for our November visit.
Gayle

 

[dvcdisney]

The counter argument though is that the deluxe guests are paying more for the amenities of the resort itself. This would be the first time that resort classes had different benefits within the parks themselves (that I am aware of).

But aren't they already doing that for Free Dining? I think when they started, all those who booked it had received the Standard Dining plan as free. But then after a couple of years, they introduced the Counter Service DP (not sure what it's actually called) and those were then what was offered as free for Value resort guests, while Moderate and Deluxe would receive the Standard Dining plan. Is this not correct?

 

[doconeill]

But aren't they already doing that for Free Dining? I think when they started, all those who booked it had received the Standard Dining plan as free. But then after a couple of years, they introduced the Counter Service DP (not sure what it's actually called) and those were then what was offered as free for Value resort guests, while Moderate and Deluxe would receive the Standard Dining plan. Is this not correct?

I suppose that could be thought of that way, but that was also part of a specific discount offer, not a standard feature.

 

[Colleen27]

But aren't they already doing that for Free Dining? I think when they started, all those who booked it had received the Standard Dining plan as free. But then after a couple of years, they introduced the Counter Service DP (not sure what it's actually called) and those were then what was offered as free for Value resort guests, while Moderate and Deluxe would receive the Standard Dining plan. Is this not correct?

It is but that's handled as a resort discount from an accounting perspective, and is no different from scaling the percentage of a room-only discount according to the rack rate of the room which Disney has done all along. It also isn't a standard inclusion with the room itself - it is, like any other resort discount, a time-limited special offer to drive bookings at slow times of year. Historically "parks" and "resorts" are two different realms and what you pay for with one only determines what you get from that one, not the other.

Whether we're staying at the $30/night HoJo off property or dropping $500/night for Grand Floridian club level, we're all paying the same extremely high ticket prices to get into the parks - over $1400 for my family at this point. We should all get the same top-notch experience for that money.

 

[ms mouse]

Getting on board in case any information comes out on this. I guess I don't really have an opinion because we don't have all the facts, but the class argument really doesn't work. Look around, there are always things some can afford and others can't. That's just life.

 

[dvcdisney]

I suppose that could be thought of that way, but that was also part of a specific discount offer, not a standard feature.

It is but that's handled as a resort discount from an accounting perspective, and is no different from scaling the percentage of a room-only discount according to the rack rate of the room which Disney has done all along. It also isn't a standard inclusion with the room itself - it is, like any other resort discount, a time-limited special offer to drive bookings at slow times of year. Historically "parks" and "resorts" are two different realms and what you pay for with one only determines what you get from that one, not the other.

Whether we're staying at the $30/night HoJo off property or dropping $500/night for Grand Floridian club level, we're all paying the same extremely high ticket prices to get into the parks - over $1400 for my family at this point. We should all get the same top-notch experience for that money.

Yes, that's true. I guess my point in using the Free Dining scenerio is that Disney has offered incentives to fill the resorts and have changed it so that those paying higher costs for their rooms will have a better/more expensive incentive (in this case - free DP). There's nothing wrong with it. If Disney offered the unlimited fp to every onsite guests and soon after changed it so that only Deluxe resort guests get the unlimited and the other resorts are offered one time use for each ride fp, would that make others feel better. Would it be more understandable that Disney would make the change since obviously Deluxe resort guests are paying more.

I agree, we should all get the best experience included in our tickets. But if Disney does go forward with Xpass or whatever they want to call it, it will not be included in our tickets. Similarly to US, if you want the FOTL experience, it's an additional cost.

I guess that if Disney had never offered it as free to everyone, there would be no issue offering it as an incentive or perk for different levels of resort. It would just make sense. I guess we will never know.

Actually, there may never be an Xpass. With the outrage by some, it may never come to pass. But, I still believe Disney would do well with such an incentive.

 

[eliza61]

The counter argument though is that the deluxe guests are paying more for the amenities of the resort itself. This would be the first time that resort classes had different benefits within the parks themselves (that I am aware of).

Wishes dessert party. you pay the price you get a better view of the fireworks, a special view of tinkerbell and food to boot.

 

[ppony]

And I'll say it, those staying at the values are getting the biggest break and value in free dining. FD isn't exactly appealing for deluxe resorts.

 

[doconeill]

Wishes dessert party. you pay the price you get a better view of the fireworks, a special view of tinkerbell and food to boot.

But that isn't a standard perk of being a deluxe resort guest, is it? That's what I'm talking about - giving something to only a certain class of resort guests in the parks that others do not get.

 

[Colleen27]

If Disney offered the unlimited fp to every onsite guests and soon after changed it so that only Deluxe resort guests get the unlimited and the other resorts are offered one time use for each ride fp, would that make others feel better. Would it be more understandable that Disney would make the change since obviously Deluxe resort guests are paying more.

I agree, we should all get the best experience included in our tickets. But if Disney does go forward with Xpass or whatever they want to call it, it will not be included in our tickets. Similarly to US, if you want the FOTL experience, it's an additional cost.

For me, the main difference between Disney's rumored Xpass and Universal's system is in the numbers. All of Universal's on-site resorts add up to about 1/3 of Disney's deluxe (not counting DVC) capacity. So their FOTL is a very limited system, about 8000 guests if every single room is booked by a family of 4, and it still has a noticeable effect on day guests. If Disney goes ahead with Xpass as an inclusion for deluxe resorts you're talking about the potential for 25,000+ guests to have Xpass even before adding in any buy-in option. That number relative to ride capacity, especially for super-popular low-capacity rides like TSM which handles an estimated 1000 guests per hour, is just too high even if it is limited to one pass per ride per day; there's no practical way to balance even a couple thousand X-passes there without either sharply reducing/doing away with walk-up FPs or dramatically reducing the percentage of capacity allocated for the standby line.