Would you join a lawsuit against DVC to stop/revert the 2020 reallocation?

[KAT4DISNEY]

I don't recall any good examples of being proactive in terms of communication. I recall a number of examples the other way including at least 3 refurbishment issues (BWV BW view & 2 AKV include Concierge) plus the valet parking and 2010/11 reallocation. As I've said a number of times over the last few years, I feel they would be better off if they did so but were firm in their commitment.

I had recalled those all falling under the Jim Lewis oversight but maybe it was after. Bilby came in August of 2011. Valet was prior to that at least. There was the craziness of CCV and the closure of amenities for VWL and a couple other refurbs but there were also offerings to compensate in those cases although they tended to be inconsistent. Still I think most were offered moves or some thing else. I think those were under Mr Potrock. I still think Lewis was the height of non-communication and the ultimate explanation of "due to member feedback".

 

[mustinjourney]

Dean has spent years on the BBSs (that predated the internet as we know it today) talking about timeshares. He’s also spent a huge amount of time on these boards providing advice to people looking to get into the timeshare business. More times than not, I’ve seen him try to dissuade people from buying into the system.

While I certainly don’t see eye to eye with him on this reallocation and felt he was wrong about using our voice in a public forum in this way, at no point have I ever questioned his integrity or motivation. To do so would be to ignore the invaluable contributions he has made to this community over the decades of his involvement.

I agree. Dean is actually usually the least Disney sunshine pumper on these boards. He’s a valued member and provides sound, emotionless advice.

 

[Dean Marino]

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[Dean]

Where is Dean since the great news broke? Like to get his view on DVC’s about-face. Makes me wonder if he is a DVC employee, consultant, or unpaid plant on this board. Seems to ALWAYS take The DVC side of issues. Just wondering.

Not questioning anyone’s integrity, but maybe his motivation. Don’t know the person, and I haven’t been on this board in years. It’s just seemed his veracity for taking Disney side in all this, and feeling the need to Vehemently oppose almost every valid point members made and take DVC’s side, just made me wonder the motive. Re reading my post, i can see how my statement came across negative or somewhat confrontational . That was not the intent. However I would not be surprised if Disney watches this board and has personnel post their position from time to time without revealing who they truly are. Maybe just the cynical side of me.

Just us?
We're STILL going to buy another 30 points at our Home Resort. Point Inflation has been tried once, for 2020. We do not trust DVC to not pull this act again in 2021....

All personal opinion - I'm not necessarily right, no one else is necessarily wrong.

There will be changes at some point and it will almost certainly be negative to studios and certain times of the year. Having options and flexibility is always a good thing.

 

[jo-jo]

I also want to thank those who took up the cause. I read countless posts and my eyes were glazing over. I couldn't make sense of it all, except the part where studios were going up.

As many others, I thought studios would always run from a low of 12 points to a high of 16 points depending on season. ( just throwing numbers out there) In fact our guide at the time, told us how someone bought 157 points because they had planned to come the same time each year. So they also were on the understanding on those points for that villa to remain constant.

 

[mustinjourney]

Yes - neither of these would benefit me (since we like to travel in the fall and only book studios) but I am in agreement, if they balanced the seasons a little more and also raised studios while reducing 1-beds I would not be thrilled but I would not suspect any devious plan in doing that, because the data shows that this is the appropriate. (We probably shouldn't be proposing these ideas though.)

I would be somewhat sad, but I would likely feed the addiction further by buying more points to upgrade my studio stays to 1BRs

 

[DougEMG]

Anyone want to write a letter recommending what the point reallocation should look like : (1) increasing studios, (2) decreasing 1 bedrooms and (3) adjusting the seasons - higher for fall and lower for summer. Otherwise maybe they should just leave things alone.

 

[TexasChick123]

Anyone want to write a letter recommending what the point reallocation should look like : (1) increasing studios, (2) decreasing 1 bedrooms and (3) adjusting the seasons - higher for fall and lower for summer. Otherwise maybe they should just leave things alone.

I like all of these suggestions because I stay in 1- and 2-bedrooms only and like to go at the beginning of summer.

 

[glamdring269]

I take a few days off and come back to this amazing news. Heck yeah!

Thanks to everyone who put in so much effort actually meeting with Disney. Thanks to everyone for having a healthy debate here. That to me is really the key. Without the debate I doubt folks would have continued digging and digging and ultimately uncovering whatever specific point it was that helped sway the argument in our favor.

Cheers!

 

[Donna M]

I want to add my thank you to zavandor for being so persistent; it paid off. Thanks too to all the people who took the time to contact Disney. Way to go!

 

[Bing Showei]

One thing I have gleaned from this is that I have lost a lot of faith in DVC as a whole. I am confident that they did not reverse their decision out of the goodness of their hearts or "based on member feedback". They did it to protect themselves from legal action, plain and simple.

I suspect they’re just regrouping and if not the same exact changes, some variation on these changes will be back. Maybe raising studios to close the studio/1BR gap with no offset/rebalance elsewhere? Benefit to the greater membership will still be in question, Disney will still be the greatest beneficiary, and the membership will still remain powerless.

The only difference? Disney will get all their ducks in a row with respect to addressing any legal gaps this reallocation has exposed. And this time around, they’ll also get ahead of the outrage by justifying the changes by way of an official statement of some kind reiterating their rights to do so in the membership agreement (which will be much more explicit in the new POS).

I think it’s important to note that in her emailed statement, Yvonne Chang made no admission of error. In fact, it reads to be much more an assertion of Disney’s right to do exactly what they did.

While certainly eye-opening, this “reverse course” hasn’t instilled any confidence in me about Disney. If anything, it has forced me to really think hard about what risks I’m assuming/accepting by keeping my contracts.

 

[skier_pete]

I think it’s important to note that in her emailed statement, Yvonne Chang made no admission of error. In fact, it reads to be much more an assertion of Disney’s right to do exactly what they did..

Do you believe that? I don't. I believe they found something that had them very concerned, especially the fact that they reverted so quickly. If they really felt that it was just a few complaints, they would've stuck with the usual "For the members benefit". I think they realized they did something that could get them in a lot of trouble. I HOPE it's raising the "lock-off premium" but I don't really know what it would be.

I do agree they are very likely to do SOMETHING in 2021. I seriously doubt it is the same thing we just saw - but yeah - something's gonna happen.

(Off-topic: Am I the only one that could see them moving a high point season window to early October for the 50th anniversary in 2021. They wouldn't really NEED to do it, but I sort of think that they might.)

 

[MommaBerd]

Adding my deep appreciation to all of you who e-mailed/called DVC and especially those of you who had conversations with management! It took a LOT of your personal time to benefit not just yourselves, but the entire community. A reward for your hard work - even if just for now.

 

[mrsap]

Thanks to everyone who stayed persistent with this. You guys are great!

We still can’t believe it!

 

[Bing Showei]

I believe they found something that had them very concerned, especially the fact that they reverted so quickly. If they really felt that it was just a few complaints, they would've stuck with the usual "For the members benefit". I think they realized they did something that could get them in a lot of trouble.

I’m sure they realized something was problematic, but my point is that all they need to do is to patch up whatever legal vulnerabilities they may have discovered as a result of the big brouhaha, and then they can do the same thing again with the legalities having been more closely examined and addressed.

Buying in, we’ve ceded unfettered control to Disney to change whatever it wants to in the POS. If there is a shown propensity for this “money-grab” sort of behavior, what’s to suggest it couldn’t happen again?

[Cue Dean/Tim re: selling if you don’t trust the system] Maybe they’re right, but the idea that the only real vote we have is the vote with our feet is just depressing.

 

[miTnosnhoJ]

I’m sure they realized something was problematic, but my point is that all they need to do is to patch up whatever legal vulnerabilities they may have discovered as a result of the big brouhaha, and then they can do the same thing again with the legalities having been more closely examined and addressed.

Buying in, we’ve ceded unfettered control to Disney to change whatever it wants to in the POS. If there is a shown propensity for this “money-grab” sort of behavior, what’s to suggest it couldn’t happen again?

[Cue Dean/Tim re: selling if you don’t trust the system] Maybe they’re right, but the idea that the only real vote we have is the vote with our feet is just depressing.

We may not have a vote, but I think this shows the power of social media. Our folks who spent time talking with Disney execs could not be silenced and sent on their way because they were influential within a large online community.

If there is a lesson from Wells Fargo, it is this: it takes many years to build a reputation with your customers, but it can be lost overnight.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

I suspect they’re just regrouping and if not the same exact changes, some variation on these changes will be back. Maybe raising studios to close the studio/1BR gap with no offset/rebalance elsewhere? Benefit to the greater membership will still be in question, Disney will still be the greatest beneficiary, and the membership will still remain powerless.

The only difference? Disney will get all their ducks in a row with respect to addressing any legal gaps this reallocation has exposed. And this time around, they’ll also get ahead of the outrage by justifying the changes by way of an official statement of some kind reiterating their rights to do so in the membership agreement (which will be much more explicit in the new POS).

I think it’s important to note that in her emailed statement, Yvonne Chang made no admission of error. In fact, it reads to be much more an assertion of Disney’s right to do exactly what they did.

While certainly eye-opening, this “reverse course” hasn’t instilled any confidence in me about Disney. If anything, it has forced me to really think hard about what risks I’m assuming/accepting by keeping my contracts.

Realistically demand is out of whack with the studios. In good part it has been a result of or at least added to by choices made by DVC - increased point buy in, point creep and lowering the minimum buy in for new members. Plus Bungalows and Cabins adding to resort point totals with point requirements that the vast majority of buyers will never plan on booking. That's the reality we have going forward. DVC does have the right and sole discretion to reallocate and it should be expected they will do something as they have done in the past. Hopefully they will be more mindful when they next change the charts. If they were 100% confident on the legality it's unlikely they would have pulled back but they would not state such a thing.

 

[KAT4DISNEY]

(Off-topic: Am I the only one that could see them moving a high point season window to early October for the 50th anniversary in 2021. They wouldn't really NEED to do it, but I sort of think that they might.)

I do not see how they can justify a change in advance of "demand". That's how they start the charts but reallocations need to be based on actual demand and a need to shift it. Very difficult to justify numbers in advance of them happening. But October is already out of whack so it's not unthinkable that something will be seen for that time.

 

[Wakey]

I don’t believe they can patch up legal vulnerabilities re the lockoff premium. There are duties there they cannot overcome, both in the POS, what would be a huge misselling issue (it’s also all over Facebook what people say they were told by guides), and DVCMCs fiduciary duty in the benefit of members.
I think if they tried the lockoff premium again, given all the groundwork that has been done on here already, I think it wouldn’t take a month to get to the stage of members going to lawyers.
I suggested above and people seem to agree, maybe 1 to 2 points on a studio, but only if there is exactly the same reduction in one beds, and Oct to Dec up a bit, but only if there is exactly the same points deductions elsewhere (probably summer) would be the only fiddling with the points that make any sense.

 

[Sammie]

I can't believe someone would accuse Dean of being a DVC employee, consultant, or unpaid plant on this board. Just because someone actually read their contract and understands what they bought and also know that DVC is audited by outside agencies and held to laws that govern such, does not make one a plant. It makes them intelligent.

Comments such as these are the main reason I am not very active on this forum anymore. Sadly I see it has not changed.