Thoughts on Cars Land replacing Tom Sawyer Island at The MK

[Chili327]

We already know Rivers of America, Tom Sawyer Island and most likely Muppets are leaving. It's not hard to understand why many are upset. For many Disney Parks are what they grew up and the like the nostalgia factor.

For some reason the new generation doesn't care about that. They want flashy and new.

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... Bite your tongue. that's not even close to "most likely".

 

[Jrb1979]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... Bite your tongue. that's not even close to "most likely".

From things I'm hearing it's most likely cause they want it save Animation Courtyard for future expansion. That and the execs in the offices behind it don't want to move

 

[HopperFan]

Whoa, whoa, whoa.... Bite your tongue. that's not even close to "most likely".

Disney already said they have not chosen a location yet. Probably are doing market research based on people's reactions, and other factors. Don't listen to any rumors claiming to know more than what Disney has put out there. Pure conjecture.

We are all in this together! #TeamMuppet

 

[cabanafrau]

We already know Rivers of America, Tom Sawyer Island and most like Muppets are leaving. It's not hard to understand why many are upset. For many Disney Parks are what they grew up and the like the nostalgia factor.

For some reason the new generation doesn't care about that. They want flashy and new.

Usually when we refer to nostalgia it's regarded as a good thing, warm fuzzy feelings, etc. However there are other aspects that sometimes come into play as well. If it's appropriate to attempt to demean a "new generation" with dismissive attitudes simply because we disagree about something or prefer different things, maybe those of us who are older should prepare to be tarred with a toxic nostalgia label, whether we're deserving or not.

 

[sam_gordon]

We already know Rivers of America, Tom Sawyer Island and most like Muppets are leaving. It's not hard to understand why many are upset. For many Disney Parks are what they grew up and the like the nostalgia factor.

For some reason the new generation doesn't care about that. They want flashy and new.

Disney has made all kinds of changes to attractions over the years. Mr Toad's Wild Ride, what was the Airline attraction? Alien Encounter, etc, etc. Yes, there's something to be said for nostalgia. There's also something to be said about change.

As I said, maybe this will be a "bad" change. But maybe not. We'll find out in a couple of years.

 

[Chili327]

Legoland had a suspended coaster that was lower thrill, called Flying School. It ran from 2004 to 2023. So I guess it could go either way. It did have shoulder harness.

So it was a kids ride?

Disney has made all kinds of changes to attractions over the years. Mr Toad's Wild Ride, what was the Airline attraction? Alien Encounter, etc, etc. Yes, there's something to be said for nostalgia. There's also something to be said about change.

As I said, maybe this will be a "bad" change. But maybe not. We'll find out in a couple of years.

At this point I'm just waiting to find out when they're going to drain the river & hope I can get back there once before they do.

 

[BrianL]

Usually when we refer to nostalgia it's regarded as a good thing, warm fuzzy feelings, etc. However there are other aspects that sometimes come into play as well. If it's appropriate to attempt to demean a "new generation" with dismissive attitudes simply because we disagree about something or prefer different things, maybe those of us who are older should prepare to be tarred with a toxic nostalgia label, whether we're deserving or not.

That's fair.

Of course, the fact is that young people have absolutely terrible tastes in music, movies, and fashion, and their attitudes toward work and relationships are attrocious. Now, I'll be right back, I've got to go check my lawn and tell some folks to get off of it!

 

[zackiedawg]

That's fair.

Of course, the fact is that young people have absolutely terrible tastes in music, movies, and fashion, and their attitudes toward work and relationships are attrocious. Now, I'll be right back, I've got to go check my lawn and tell some folks to get off of it!

Come on - FOLKS don't go on your lawn. Only whippersnappers do!

 

[cabanafrau]

That's fair.

Of course, the fact is that young people have absolutely terrible tastes in music, movies, and fashion, and their attitudes toward work and relationships are attrocious. Now, I'll be right back, I've got to go check my lawn and tell some folks to get off of it!

Don't ask me, I'm not opposed to changing TSI yet I have reservations about too much pavement and simply flipping the switch and removing a more laid back area and trampling placemaking and storytelling. I'm not opposed to a Cars attraction and hope they do a good job with it. I consider it a plus that they're not just cloning DCA and are creating a new experience. I will be sad at the riverboat being gone or rendered useless as to it's current ability as an attraction.

I'm also into a wide range of music, ranging from my youth, significantly earlier than my own youth, and all the way into today -- where I'm possibly a bit less youthful. I've raised two young people and know a lot of their peers. They're about on par overall with my generation in regard to work and relationship attitudes IMO and experience.

 

[georgina]

That's fair.

Of course, the fact is that young people have absolutely terrible tastes in music, movies, and fashion, and their attitudes toward work and relationships are attrocious. Now, I'll be right back, I've got to go check my lawn and tell some folks to get off of it!

That's particularly funny for me since my 29 yo DD just quit her software engineering job to take a break, as so many of her friends have apparently also quit.

While I might miss some stuff, I am always happy to check out something new.

 

[tx911]

Disney already said they have not chosen a location yet. Probably are doing market research based on people's reactions, and other factors. Don't listen to any rumors claiming to know more than what Disney has put out there. Pure conjecture.

We are all in this together! #TeamMuppet

View attachment 886624

I still think best solution is MuppetVision replaces Lightening McQueen, RnR re-themed to Muppets.

Make that whole back (side?) corner a little Muppets land.

Then put Monsters, inc. where Muppet's is currently.

 

[Chili327]

Here is the best explanation I’ve found.

Even though I still think they can do it, keep the circle River in Liberty Square, then behind the circle remove that part of the island and make a river straight down the middle to have room for a path on the left side next to BTMRR, and a water/river path for Liberty Belle to still get to the dry dock and “open sea” when needed.

 

[lovethattink]

So it was a kids ride?



At this point I'm just waiting to find out when they're going to drain the river & hope I can get back there once before they do.

Adults went on it too. It had a height requirement.

 

[ChrisFL]

There was some public grumbling when WDW announced Be Our Guest dining would include building Beast's Castle bc DL & WDW "Castles" were meant to represent each Park & a 2nd WDW "Castle" diminished their importance. I still agree.

You wouldn't like Tokyo Disneyland then, where they basically put a full size Beast castle in the same park as their Cinderella Castle:

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

Of course, and others get to freely voice our opinions about your opinions.

Exactly my point. But that wasn't a choice in your former post so it seemed it should be pointed out to everyone. Glad we agree!

 

[Mai Ku Tiki]

You wouldn't like Tokyo Disneyland then, where they basically put a full size Beast castle in the same park as their Cinderella Castle:

View attachment 886905

Nope. One iconic castle to a Park

 

[cabanafrau]

You wouldn't like Tokyo Disneyland then, where they basically put a full size Beast castle in the same park as their Cinderella Castle:

View attachment 886905

If the US parks were receiving anywhere near the type of investment and resulting level of detail and planning shown here it might stand a very good chance of a warm welcome. Problem is we've had to learn to be wary about exactly what will be given up and what will actually result.

I remember visiting WDW as a child and seeing the model of the yet to be built Space Mountain. The model got heavy traffic to view it because people were excited -- and they knew their excitement would be rewarded. The way the US parks are run doesn't encourage that kind of blind faith anymore.

 

[wabbott]

https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/internet/disney-new-announcements-d23-park-land-cars-rcna167598

Major changes at Disney parks divide fans

At Disney’s D23 convention, a flurry of new announcements thrilled adult fans. Then, they found out what was being replaced.

By Kat Tenbarge
8/24/2024 - 7:00 AM CDT

For Disney fans, this summer has been a roller coaster of emotions. For some, excitement around a slew of new attractions has soured after the company announced what would be shuttered to make way for the changes.

In early August, fans were thrilled to hear about plans for a long-awaited “Villains Land” and two new “Cars” rides at its Magic Kingdom park in Florida, as well as a “Monsters, Inc.” land at Hollywood Studios.

But in the wake of the announcements, excitement has dampened as Disney fans have learned about the loss of classic and atmospheric attractions in favor of franchise-driven rides that will draw huge crowds.

On Aug. 12, the Monday after D23, Disney’s annual fan convention, the company announced that it would transform the “Rivers of America” waterway, riverboat ride and Tom Sawyer-themed island in Magic Kingdom into the new “Cars” attractions. The move would replace a large original part of Disney World.

The negative reactions to the news have included complaints that Walt Disney’s vision for the park is being destroyed, that Disney is valuing crowd capacity over themed design and that a formerly calm respite from the Magic Kingdom crowds will become yet another long line for a loud, frenetic attraction.

The evolution of reactions has largely taken place inside the thriving online community of adult Disney fans, including Disney influencers, journalists and content creators, whom the company has increasingly marketed to as repeat visitors.

“I don’t think all people in the fandom are resistant to all change, but it’s easy to be upset when something is being taken away, even if you’re excited for something coming that is new,” said Scott Gustin, who works for media company Nexstar and posts theme park updates to his popular account on X. “Theme park fans, they kind of want it all. They want the best of all of it. They want to keep what they know, they don’t want a ‘Cars’ attraction to have to require them to pour a bunch of concrete into the river and pave it over.”

Gustin was one of the journalists live-posting at D23 throughout the Disney theme parks preview on Aug. 10. His posts on X that night were viewed over 4 million times. Gustin was provided a media credential by Disney.

The new planned attractions at Disney parks around the world were presented with great fanfare. Entertainers like John Stamos, Darren Criss, Ke Huy Quan and Meghan Trainor performed onstage throughout a presentation from Josh D’Amaro, the company’s head of parks and resorts. Gustin said the crowd at D23 was the largest and most energized he has been a part of since he started covering the event in 2022.

“I feel like I can allow myself to get excited and feel optimistic about the future of the Disney Parks again,” Gustin posted the next day. The night the convention ended, Gustin took a red-eye flight back to his home in North Carolina. Then, the mood shifted.

“I walk into the house, I set my luggage down, and then at 9 a.m. they post new concept art that shows the Rivers of America is going away,” he said.

“If you’re going to remove Rivers of America and Tom Sawyer Island, it better be damn good. It better be worth it,” Gustin posted on X. “You don’t hear me complain much about removals at the parks because I’m generally accepting of change — but it all comes back to the exchange. You can’t use ‘moving forward’ if the changes are not for the better.”

The “Rivers of America” space in the Magic Kingdom is a man-made river containing a steam-powered riverboat ride that circles an artificial island with paths and hideaways to explore, reached by motorized rafts. It’s a large play area themed to “The Adventures of Tom Sawyer” by Mark Twain with places to relax. The area draws far fewer visitors than other attractions and is seen by many Disney fans as a respite from large crowds at the park.

Gustin’s sentiments were echoed by other prominent members of the Disney fandom. Blogger Tom Bricker wrote, “It’s not exactly paving over paradise to put up a parking lot, but it’s kinda close.” YouTuber Jenny Nicholson, whose four-hour video about the closure of Disney’s “Star Wars” hotel went viral in May, posted, “I feel like the appeal of the river is that it creates a grand impression and makes the park feel like a big kingdom. All the stuff near the water feels cooler because of it. Even if you don’t go to the island or on the water it improves your experience.”

The “Rivers of America” aren’t the only attractions that will likely be shuttered in the coming years at Disney World. The “Dinosaur” ride and “DinoLand” at Animal Kingdom will be replaced with a “Tropical Americas” land featuring “Encanto” and “Indiana Jones” themed rides. The new “Monsters, Inc.” land is speculated to replace the “Muppets Courtyard” at Hollywood Studios, although the location of the attraction hasn’t been confirmed by Disney.

These changes aren’t unprecedented. Numerous attractions have been renovated and replaced at the Disney theme parks over their decadeslong history. But the large number of presumed changes has rankled some fans.

“Epcot: Defaced. Studios: De-Themed. DAK: Endangered. Magic Kingdom: 1/3 Destroyed,” posted one Disney content creator and former Disney employee. “My literal home for 75% of my life made unrecognizable.”

Deshawn Warr, an Orlando-based Disney content creator, said he believes many of the negative reactions come from a place of nostalgia, and that they’ve been incentivized by social media platforms that reward emotionally charged posts. He also highlighted that throughout the history of changes at Disney, ones that are intended to make the parks more inclusive of diversity are met with more backlash.

In 2023, “Splash Mountain” was closed amid controversy over featuring characters from “Song of the South,” which includes racist stereotypes. The ride reopened this year as “Tiana’s Princess Bayou,” themed to Disney’s first Black princess. In 2017, Disney removed a scene from the “Pirates of the Caribbean” ride that showed pirates auctioning women.

“A lot of people don’t want those changes because what changed reflects their nostalgia,” Warr said. “From nostalgia, you can unearth personal views and viewpoints on life.”

“How the parks look now isn’t so much for me but for my daughter, who’s 3,” he continued. “When she’s my age, she’ll remember a park that is different from mine, but the experiences stay the same.

 

[NiceBlue]

Deleted

 

[Chili327]

My thinking is they could retain the river feel in Frontierland, and still gain a ton of filled in land behind to make this work for everyone.

Green is filled in
Yellow is current path, & existing stuff
Black is a new structure that gets moved into place, or out of the way like a draw bridge or whatever to allow the boat to go dock.