Would You Have Tipped In This Situation?

[Hrhpd]

My daughter is a server. At the end of the night, she has to tip out several percentage of her total sales to the hostess, the person that buses the tables and the bartender (because he makes the table drinks). No tipping, not only does not provide the server with a tip, it actually takes money out of the servers pocket. They tip out whether or not you think you should tip.

In the case of the OP, the server was busy. That meant in the hour the server neglected the OP's table, the server was also earning tips at other tables. Even after tipping out, the server should still earn minimum wage for that hour. Her first $5.06 for that hour would be hers to bring her to minimum wage, the other table tips would cover her tipping out.

You really think a server who is giving crappy service deserves more than minimum wage?

 

[cornflake]

OK, why then are restaurant servers not paid at least that much? I've read several times in different threads that they're only paid a couple of bucks an hour as wages, and that's why tipping takes on a whole other dimension.
(Heck, here even salespeople on straight commission need to be guaranteed a draw against their sales that equals at least as much as minimum wage for whatever hours they put in).

The way it works here is that they're allowed to be paid as low as $2 and change an hour - on the supposition that it's a tipped position so they'll be earning at least minimum wage when tips are included.

Servers are taxed as if they received I think it's 15% on the food they served during the year. So if people don't tip, they're actually costing the server. Servers also, as others have mentioned, often have to 'tip out,' that is give a portion of their tips each night to the busboys, etc.

The way the minimum wage thing works into this is that restaurants are supposed to make up the difference if a servers wage (the $2.xx) plus tips does NOT actually add up to the federal minimum wage (currently $7.25).

However, in practice, restaurants often say they'll make up the difference later and claim they'll do that like, at the end of the year or when the server leaves employment. Then, because waitstaff has such high turnover, this rarely happens - either people leave before the end of the year and the restaurants claim that's when they settle books, or they just never do and claim they will, and many servers don't know they're entitled to the differential (which is not much some weeks so maybe they don't argue and then don't realize how much it adds up to).

 

[DisneyWalle]

I will throw my hat into this ring.

We eat out in our community about once a week. I only tip if the service is noteworthy. If the waitress just takes my order and brings it out -- then thats basic service which they earn base pay for. If the waitress or server goes above and beyond in taking care of us then I tip well -- even at fast food establishments. I recently tipped my Subway "artist" $5 on $7 worth of sandwiches because she was extremely nice and wrote the name of each sandwich on the wrappers.

My reasoning is very simple. If I just perform my basic job duties at work -- I earn my agreed upon hourly salary. But if I exceed customer service goals than I earn a bonus. If its good enough for me then its good enough for others in customer service. Just my opinion.

 

[cornflake]

I will throw my hat into this ring.

We eat out in our community about once a week. I only tip if the service is noteworthy. If the waitress just takes my order and brings it out -- then thats basic service which they earn base pay for. If the waitress or server goes above and beyond in taking care of us then I tip well -- even at fast food establishments. I recently tipped my Subway "artist" $5 on $7 worth of sandwiches because she was extremely nice and wrote the name of each sandwich on the wrappers.

My reasoning is very simple. If I just perform my basic job duties at work -- I earn my agreed upon hourly salary. But if I exceed customer service goals than I earn a bonus. If its good enough for me then its good enough for others in customer service. Just my opinion.

If you don't tip because your waitstaff just 'do their jobs' you're costing them money. Their salary is meant to include tips. They're taxed on theoretical tips. They generally have to tip out to other staffers.

That's the way it's structured. They are not taking jobs that actually pay $2 an hour - the structure of their payscale is entirely based on customers tipping to provide part of their salary.

I'd guess you're going to say they should find another job if they don't like the salary and they agreed to $2 and whatnot. This job is not supposed to pay base pay alone. It is only people who choose to ignore that fact for whatever reason that refuse to tip.

 

[DisneyWalle]

If you don't tip because your waitstaff just 'do their jobs' you're costing them money. Their salary is meant to include tips. They're taxed on theoretical tips. They generally have to tip out to other staffers.

That's the way it's structured. They are not taking jobs that actually pay $2 an hour - the structure of their payscale is entirely based on customers tipping to provide part of their salary.

I'd guess you're going to say they should find another job if they don't like the salary and they agreed to $2 and whatnot. This job is not supposed to pay base pay alone. It is only people who choose to ignore that fact for whatever reason that refuse to tip.

I didn't say that I never tip. I just stated that I only tip if the server does more than take the order and bring drinks. I stand by what I said -- if they choose that line of work and agree to their hourly pay (just as I have done) then if they want a tip then they need to provide exceptional service. If they only provide basic service then their basic pay is warranted. I'm not stopping them from making a tip -- they are -- if they don't provide exceptional service. The servers dictate if they "earn" a tip -- a tip is not mandatory -- if it were it would be included in the check.

 

[sam_gordon]

I didn't say that I never tip. I just stated that I only tip if the server does more than take the order and bring drinks. I stand by what I said -- if they choose that line of work and agree to their hourly pay (just as I have done) then if they want a tip then they need to provide exceptional service. If they only provide basic service then their basic pay is warranted. I'm not stopping them from making a tip -- they are -- if they don't provide exceptional service. The servers dictate if they "earn" a tip -- a tip is not mandatory -- if it were it would be included in the check.

I hope you have your flame suit handy, you're going to need it. Just so you know, I agree with you. I try to do my job to the best of my ability because I take pride in what I do. I don't need a bonus/tip as incentive. Is it nice when we get a bonus? Sure. But the bonus doesn't make me work any harder.

I don't understand those who say "waiters need bonuses(tips) in order to do a good job". Or "If you don't tip, they have no incentive to serve you well." Bull.

 

[DisneyWalle]

I hope you have your flame suit handy, you're going to need it.

Yes, I have been on these boards for awhile now. So I'm fully aware of how heated the "tipping" topics get. But its my opinion. In no other business, would someone be awarded "extra" money for a mediocre job. All the waitstaff in our regular restaurants know that I tip but I expect a certain level of service for those tips --- and they provide it so I tip them well.

Again I will say that tips are not mandatory -- if they were they would be included in the check. Good quality service = Excellent tipping. Basic service or bad service = Zero Tipping.

 

[DisneyWalle]

Just so you know, I agree with you.

Good to know I'm not alone.

 

[kamik86]

I definitely tip the server much less when mistakes are made that the server should notice. The server should notice your food isn't coming out.

A server should notice if I ordered soemthing with no sauce and the sauce is on the food when they bring it out.

However if I order a medium well steak and it comes out mid-rare to be honest I don't expect servers to be able to tell that until I cut into it. So as long as they bring it back and get me my steak done right it doesn't affect their tip, its not their fault the kitchen messed up. The same goes for including something (or not) in the toppings of a burger or another mistake that isn't obvious the second you look at the plate.

 

[Disney Doll]

We BEGGED for the bill and I am not joking. We were completely ignored, it was bizarre. Server kept saying yes, I will get that. We waited for almost an hour. This was in the bar area of a restaurant at Happy Hour.

An hour!!!!!!!!!
I'd have left too.

 

[Disney Doll]

How do you feel about public input about how you should do your job?

I'm a nurse, I serve the public. So I expect public input about how to do my job. And we get it in spades. Every patient gets a survey, the results are tabulated and shared with the staff with regard to what our areas of excellence/deficiency are.

And if there are areas of deficiency, no one's giving me a raise, nor do I deserve one.

 

[Feckless]

finally, I get why Canadians are shocked at the higher tip percentages than what we are used to at home. So, in some places wait staff is actually NOT paid minimum wage by their employers and this is legal, because their salary will be made up in tips from customers??? Is this the case in all states?

Here, wait staff are not exempted from minimum wage, and 15% is a generous tip as a result. Minimum wage in my province is $10 per hour.

Not commenting on OPs question because I'm still processing!

 

[mom2of2]

finally, I get why Canadians are shocked at the higher tip percentages than what we are used to at home. So, in some places wait staff is actually NOT paid minimum wage by their employers and this is legal, because their salary will be made up in tips from customers??? Is this the case in all states?

Here, wait staff are not exempted from minimum wage, and 15% is a generous tip as a result. Minimum wage in my province is $10 per hour.

Not commenting on OPs question because I'm still processing!

standard hourly wage for servers is $2.13 an hour and yes that is in most states. Some pay more but the majority pay well under federal minimum wage. Out of their hourly wage comes taxes (federal, state and local), insurance, social security, disability and some places union dues. Paychecks are generally under $100. Tips are how servers make their money.

 

[okw2012]

finally, I get why Canadians are shocked at the higher tip percentages than what we are used to at home. So, in some places wait staff is actually NOT paid minimum wage by their employers and this is legal, because their salary will be made up in tips from customers??? Is this the case in all states?

Here, wait staff are not exempted from minimum wage, and 15% is a generous tip as a result. Minimum wage in my province is $10 per hour.

Not commenting on OPs question because I'm still processing!

Where are you from? Many provinces do have a lower min wage for waiters and tax their revenues as if they'd earned a 15% tip on food!

 

[ronandannette]

The way it works here is that they're allowed to be paid as low as $2 and change an hour - on the supposition that it's a tipped position so they'll be earning at least minimum wage when tips are included.

Servers are taxed as if they received I think it's 15% on the food they served during the year. So if people don't tip, they're actually costing the server. Servers also, as others have mentioned, often have to 'tip out,' that is give a portion of their tips each night to the busboys, etc.

The way the minimum wage thing works into this is that restaurants are supposed to make up the difference if a servers wage (the $2.xx) plus tips does NOT actually add up to the federal minimum wage (currently $7.25).

However, in practice, restaurants often say they'll make up the difference later and claim they'll do that like, at the end of the year or when the server leaves employment. Then, because waitstaff has such high turnover, this rarely happens - either people leave before the end of the year and the restaurants claim that's when they settle books, or they just never do and claim they will, and many servers don't know they're entitled to the differential (which is not much some weeks so maybe they don't argue and then don't realize how much it adds up to).

Wow, bad deal. Still I refuse to behave as if I, as a customer, have somehow agreed to the obligation of "topping up" a server's wage simply by patronizing a restaurant. Do I tip routinely? Of course, the standard here is 10% + for excellent service.

If you don't tip because your waitstaff just 'do their jobs' you're costing them money. Their salary is meant to include tips. They're taxed on theoretical tips. They generally have to tip out to other staffers.

That's the way it's structured. They are not taking jobs that actually pay $2 an hour - the structure of their payscale is entirely based on customers tipping to provide part of their salary.

I'd guess you're going to say they should find another job if they don't like the salary and they agreed to $2 and whatnot. This job is not supposed to pay base pay alone. It is only people who choose to ignore that fact for whatever reason that refuse to tip.

If indeed the risk of not receiving tips (which, regardless of all this are always optional and at the discretion of the customer) imperils a servers' livelihood, then restaurants (who apparently don't want to and don't have to) pay a reasonable wage should institute a mandatory service charge.

 

[ronandannette]

Where are you from? Many provinces do have a lower min wage for waiters and tax their revenues as if they'd earned a 15% tip on food!

Google it. There is a separate wage standard for jobs that include tips, but the lowest of those is in Quebec and it is $8.55 hr as of May 30, 2012. (BTW, I'm in Alberta where the actual minimum wage for regular jobs is the lowest in the country at $9.75. Nunavut Territory is the highest at $11.00. For the record, almost nobody, with the possible exception of child care or domestic help would be working for minimum wage in Alberta.)

 

[cornflake]

Wow, bad deal. Still I refuse to behave as if I, as a customer, have somehow agreed to the obligation of "topping up" a server's wage simply by patronizing a restaurant. Do I tip routinely? Of course, the standard here is 10% + for excellent service.



If indeed the risk of not receiving tips (which, regardless of all this are always optional and at the discretion of the customer) imperils a servers' livelihood, then restaurants (who apparently don't want to and don't have to) pay a reasonable wage should institute a mandatory service charge.

The latter is why most restaurants here do have a mandatory 18% charge on parties of 6 or more people, because the risk becomes too great.

People get bent out of shape about that, however - if they tried to institute it on smaller parties I think it'd just cause a mess. It's just one of those 'America is bizarrely resistant to sensible progress/modernization' things - for other examples, buy sugar in America.

Also, if that's the case, wow do I overtip in Canada I know I overtip in Europe but Canada has never occurred to me actually, I just presumed it was more like here in that regard.

 

[pegrad1]

As someone who was a server over 15 years ago and probably did that type of work for close to 10 years I hope my answer is helpful.
Trust me when I say that servers feel like crap when they know you didn't get the service you should have. We all should remember that they are people and all of us are bound to make mistakes. Also keep in mind that their wage is around $3.00 an hour. Can you imagine if you made a simple typo at work making a letter or document look unprofessional, that your employer docked your pay? It wouldn't be acceptable would it? I believe that a lesser tip is in order but none at all? I feel that is rude & well, not so nice. A lesser tip lets your server know that the service should have been better. Trust me when I say, they already know it but a $1 or $2 tip will remind them to focus & work harder for the next party. And they will.

 

[ronandannette]

Also, if that's the case, wow do I overtip in Canada I know I overtip in Europe but Canada has never occurred to me actually, I just presumed it was more like here in that regard.

Yep, that's likely why the servers hug you when you leave...and here you probably just thought we were super-friendly . You've got me curious about American sugar now too.

 

[cymbaldiva]

I didn't say that I never tip. I just stated that I only tip if the server does more than take the order and bring drinks. I stand by what I said -- if they choose that line of work and agree to their hourly pay (just as I have done) then if they want a tip then they need to provide exceptional service. If they only provide basic service then their basic pay is warranted. I'm not stopping them from making a tip -- they are -- if they don't provide exceptional service. The servers dictate if they "earn" a tip -- a tip is not mandatory -- if it were it would be included in the check.

Agreed.

I think that it is beyond ridiculous that it is acceptable that waitstaff are paid in this manner - I think waitstaff should be paid at least the legal minimum wage and tips being a true gratuity for great service as opposed to being demanded by society. As a consumer I pay more for my meal in a table service establishment because someone will be waiting on me. I do not believe that I should be expected to tip for a server doing their minimum job requirement since I'm already paying for that basic service; that's what their employer should cover. As a person though, I felt bad for the servers.

Or I used to... the funny thing is? I have friends that wait tables and I've asked them why they don't consider a job that pays a consistent wage as opposed to worrying about being tips. The answer? "I like the flexible schedule and I make way more an hour waiting tables"

My take away from that? I've stopped worrying about the waitstaff hourly wage. They made their career choice, I tip what I feel is warranted - done.