Will the Draft Come Back to the USA?

MAKmom

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http://www.marinecorpstimes.com/news/2007/04/military_groundforces_draft_070417w/

Experts: Force increases may not be enough

By Rick Maze - Staff writer
Posted : Thursday Apr 19, 2007 5:32:46 EDT

The Senate Armed Services Committee heard testimony Tuesday that increasing the size of the Army and Marine Corps may not resolve severe and growing personnel problems. There was even talk of returning to the draft to fill the ranks.

“It is better to take a smaller force than to lower your standards,” said Lawrence Korb, a former senior Pentagon personnel official now affiliated with the Center for Defense Information and the Center for American Progress.

“The current use of ground forces in Iraq represents a complete misuse of the all-volunteer military,” he said.

The all-volunteer force was never designed for a protracted ground war, but that is exactly what it faces, he said.

“If the United States is going to have a significant component of its ground forces in Iraq over the next five, 10, 15 or 30 years, then the responsible course is for the president and those supporting this open-ended and escalated presence in Iraq to call for reinstating the draft.”

The draft, though, is one of those political dirty words that most lawmakers don’t want to hear.

Sen. John Warner, R-Va., the former armed services committee chairman and former Navy secretary, said he cannot imagine a circumstance under which Congress would order a military draft.

“We must, at all cost, preserve the all-volunteer force,” Warner said.

Army Gen. Barry McCaffrey, an international relations professor at the U.S. Military Academy at West Point, N.Y., described what he sees as the “disastrous state” of ground forces, a broken commitment to troops because of broken equipment, missed training and his sense that the 95,000 increase in Army and Marine Corps personnel planned over the next five years isn’t fast enough to provide relief.

The 95,000 — 65,000 soldiers and 30,000 Marines by 2012 — are not enough, he said, because of the extraordinary means used to field forces. This includes having 20,000 Navy and Air Force personnel assigned to traditionally ground-force missions such as convoy duties and guarding detainees, using stop-loss to prevent people from leaving the military when their obligation has ended, recalling people from the Individual Ready Reserve — who “in many cases” did not even have a relevant military skill, McCaffrey said — and relying on contractors and civilians to replace military personnel, both in combat theaters and even for stateside assignments such as being instructors for military training.

“For the first time since Vietnam, we are caught with no strategic reserve. We simply do not have a strategic fallback position for the crisis that will come inevitably,” McCaffrey warned.

McCaffrey, like Korb, worries about the quality of recruits.

“Ten percent of Army recruits are of low caliber and do not belong in uniform,” he said, noting that the number of moral waivers has increased, the percentage of high school graduates has dropped, and the average age of first-time enlistees is rising.

Because of concerns about who is being recruited and even who is being retained, Andrew Krepinevich of the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments said he is not even certain it is wise to make the planned 95,000 increase.

“There are very likely clear limits on the size of an all-volunteer ground force the Army and Marine Corps can achieve without dramatically increasing the pay and bonuses of soldiers and Marines,” Krepinevich said. The average cost of supporting a soldier has more than doubled over the last five years, he said, in part because of big bonus increases, but “there are worrisome indicators that the quality of the force has declined, perhaps significantly.”

Like Korb, Krepinevich mentioned a military draft as a possibility. Another suggestion from Krepinevich was to “welcome” foreigners to serve in the U.S. military in exchange for citizenship.

Korb had two suggestions beyond the draft, both controversial. One would be to drop the military’s prohibition on openly homosexual people serving in the military.

“Over the past 10 years, more than 10,000 personnel have been discharged as a result of this policy, including 800 with skills deemed mission critical, such as pilots, combat engineers and linguists,” he said.

Second, Korb would drop gender restrictions on some direct-combat occupations.

“The idea that women who possess the requisite mental and physical skills should somehow be protected from the dangers of combat fails to acknowledge the reality of the modern battlefield and the role women are already playing in Iraq and Afghanistan,” Korb said.

Discuss:
Force increases may not be enough
 
This has been brought up at least annually since the start of the war. There will be no draft. I hate to think what these draftees would be like when forced to work for someone that volunteered to be in the military. There will be way too much discention in the ranks.

I'd hate to have draftees working for me. I can't get my third class petty officers to work have the time as it is.
 

How long can the volunteer Army last? 2,5 10 years?
 
The all-volunteer force was never designed for a protracted ground war, but that is exactly what it faces, he said.


This stood out to me. If an all-volunteer force wasn't designed for a protracted ground war, how would a drafted force be any different (better or worse)?
 
How long can the volunteer Army last? 2,5 10 years?

30 years so far, and no recruitment issues, dispite what some "experts" say.

Alright, the draft is something that anti-war people keep bringing up. They use it as a scare tactic, thinking it will get people to want us out of the war. Ok, I'm a vet of the war, I'm not necessarily a fan of the war and I would like to bring people home, obviously, but right or wrong, our troops over there have a job to do. People who try to be-little their efforts by calling for a re-instatement of the draft, or, as Hillary, Barack and John have done, voting against funding of the war, are not supporting the troops as they claim to be doing. Their lip service is more stinging than if they were just to join the protestors and throw blood at us. Everytime one of them says "I support the troops, but not the war" it makes me cringe, because they are not supporting me, and I would appreciate it if they just shut up, really. I sent Kerry a letter to that effect and got one of his talking out of both sides of the mouth responses.

I hate all the politicians and would prefer if everybody voted all of these self-serving, deaf, dumb and blind idiots out of office.
 
30 years so far, and no recruitment issues, dispite what some "experts" say.

Alright, the draft is something that anti-war people keep bringing up. They use it as a scare tactic, thinking it will get people to want us out of the war. Ok, I'm a vet of the war, I'm not necessarily a fan of the war and I would like to bring people home, obviously, but right or wrong, our troops over there have a job to do. People who try to be-little their efforts by calling for a re-instatement of the draft, or, as Hillary, Barack and John have done, voting against funding of the war, are not supporting the troops as they claim to be doing. Their lip service is more stinging than if they were just to join the protestors and throw blood at us. Everytime one of them says "I support the troops, but not the war" it makes me cringe, because they are not supporting me, and I would appreciate it if they just shut up, really. I sent Kerry a letter to that effect and got one of his talking out of both sides of the mouth responses.

I hate all the politicians and would prefer if everybody voted all of these self-serving, deaf, dumb and blind idiots out of office.

We had Peace for most of that time. I think they are having some recruitment issues now.
 
I don't know whether there are "recruitment issues, but as the mom of two appropriate-age sons, I can tell you that the recruiters sometimes seem to be grasping at straws. My middle son got a call a couple weeks ago from a sargeant who told his dad that he had expressed interest. DS has been away at college the entire year, and has never expressed one iota of interest in the miltary. Perhaps they target kids finishing their first year of college in case they didn't have a good year. :confused3 He also gets a LOT of recruiting mail.
 
They will never institute a draft for several reasons, but the chief of which - as has already been stated - is that it would be political suicide to do so.

Besides...you think the Republicans want their kids to have to fight this war?!? :lmao: They can't even go the National Guard chicken route the way Shrub did, since the National Guard is now doing much of the fighting in this war.

But hey...what's a little thing like force readiness when you are talking about the president having to admit he made a colossal mistake? :rolleyes:

And to mattsdragon....I hate to tell you, but supporting the troops while not supporting the war is very much the position of MOST Americans at this point. Personally, I feel sorry for the folks in the military. They've been used and abused by a president who does nothing but mouth platitudes, and the military personnel seem to eat it up, completely ignoring his every action. And as for "their job" in Iraq...could you define that, please?
 
Recruters are all over colleges and high schools, and they are using some not so honest tactics. My dad was recruter, he told us all about the lies they told people in order to make their quotas, and I can see the way they twist things to make them seem better than they really are. Confuse young people who have no fore knowledge of how the military realy works.... oh, yeah. Institute the draft... no way. They will not do that, and the only people bringing that issue up are the democrats as a ploy. The republicans are perfectly happy sending my sister to Afgan for a year, and (soon to come) to Iraq for 15 months. They don't need to use the draft as long as we can keep tossing the same poor s.o.b's into the fight. Imho, polititians never really care about the people, they do what will get them in office.... all of them are the same, even the halfway good ones.
Honestly though, I would hate to be out there depending on someone who really doesn't want to be there... would you want someone at your back who thinks that what you are doing is morally wrong? No, no, no.... keep that person far away, and don't give him a gun!
What I wonder is if one day we are in a war and do the draft again.... will we add the girls to it..... boy the pregnancy rate for 18 year olds would sky rockey, don't you think!
 
30 years so far, and no recruitment issues, dispite what some "experts" say.

Alright, the draft is something that anti-war people keep bringing up. They use it as a scare tactic, thinking it will get people to want us out of the war. Ok, I'm a vet of the war, I'm not necessarily a fan of the war and I would like to bring people home, obviously, but right or wrong, our troops over there have a job to do. People who try to be-little their efforts by calling for a re-instatement of the draft, or, as Hillary, Barack and John have done, voting against funding of the war, are not supporting the troops as they claim to be doing. Their lip service is more stinging than if they were just to join the protestors and throw blood at us. Everytime one of them says "I support the troops, but not the war" it makes me cringe, because they are not supporting me, and I would appreciate it if they just shut up, really. I sent Kerry a letter to that effect and got one of his talking out of both sides of the mouth responses.

I hate all the politicians and would prefer if everybody voted all of these self-serving, deaf, dumb and blind idiots out of office.

First-THANK YOU. It seems inadequate to just say that, but every time I see a soldier, or speak to a vet my eyes get misty thinking about the sacrifices you and your families make. I wish there was more I could say.

Second-I agree with you about the politicians. I voted anti-incumbant in the last election and fat lot of good it did me. Different names, same losers.
 
This has been brought up at least annually since the start of the war.
LOl, waaaaay more than just annually. It's every few months or so.

NO, I do not think there will be a draft. The only way I can see that coming is if we were invaded stateside by a very powerful army and couldn't protect ourselves. (which is unlikely scenario and we probably wouldn't even need to draft young men if that were the case)
 
30 years so far, and no recruitment issues, dispite what some "experts" say.

Alright, the draft is something that anti-war people keep bringing up. They use it as a scare tactic, thinking it will get people to want us out of the war. Ok, I'm a vet of the war, I'm not necessarily a fan of the war and I would like to bring people home, obviously, but right or wrong, our troops over there have a job to do. People who try to be-little their efforts by calling for a re-instatement of the draft, or, as Hillary, Barack and John have done, voting against funding of the war, are not supporting the troops as they claim to be doing. Their lip service is more stinging than if they were just to join the protestors and throw blood at us. Everytime one of them says "I support the troops, but not the war" it makes me cringe, because they are not supporting me, and I would appreciate it if they just shut up, really. I sent Kerry a letter to that effect and got one of his talking out of both sides of the mouth responses.

I hate all the politicians and would prefer if everybody voted all of these self-serving, deaf, dumb and blind idiots out of office.
So true. And thank you for your service to our country. :thumbsup2
 
I don't see a draft happening.

Just based on the response I received after calling Charlie's office last year to voice my opinion. By the time I was off the phone, his staffer was agreeing with ME that a draft wasn't a great idea!

No staffer has ever "folded their cards" that fast on a telephone call before.


OT: My own Senator's staffer told me they "didn't care" about my opinion (on another subject) and it didn't matter because I'd probably forget before the next election!

:laughing: Well, we shall see. We shall see!
 
Recruters are all over colleges and high schools, and they are using some not so honest tactics. My dad was recruter, he told us all about the lies they told people in order to make their quotas, and I can see the way they twist things to make them seem better than they really are. Confuse young people who have no fore knowledge of how the military realy works.... oh, yeah. Institute the draft... no way. They will not do that, and the only people bringing that issue up are the democrats as a ploy. The republicans are perfectly happy sending my sister to Afgan for a year, and (soon to come) to Iraq for 15 months. They don't need to use the draft as long as we can keep tossing the same poor s.o.b's into the fight. Imho, polititians never really care about the people, they do what will get them in office.... all of them are the same, even the halfway good ones.
Honestly though, I would hate to be out there depending on someone who really doesn't want to be there... would you want someone at your back who thinks that what you are doing is morally wrong? No, no, no.... keep that person far away, and don't give him a gun!
What I wonder is if one day we are in a war and do the draft again.... will we add the girls to it..... boy the pregnancy rate for 18 year olds would sky rockey, don't you think!


My emphasis. Military recuiter use all kinds of tactics to get people to join the military, but what does that say about our youth that believe them? My Navy recuiter never used any rosey/flowery picture to get me to sign, and if he had I'd told him I didn't believe him. Anyone who joins to military should know what they are getting into and should do their research before joining.

Now, as for the draft? Won't happen. The only politician I know to have filed a bill wanting to institute the draft again was Charlie Rangel from New York, a democrat
 
30 years so far, and no recruitment issues, dispite what some "experts" say.

Alright, the draft is something that anti-war people keep bringing up. They use it as a scare tactic, thinking it will get people to want us out of the war. Ok, I'm a vet of the war, I'm not necessarily a fan of the war and I would like to bring people home, obviously, but right or wrong, our troops over there have a job to do. People who try to be-little their efforts by calling for a re-instatement of the draft, or, as Hillary, Barack and John have done, voting against funding of the war, are not supporting the troops as they claim to be doing. Their lip service is more stinging than if they were just to join the protestors and throw blood at us. Everytime one of them says "I support the troops, but not the war" it makes me cringe, because they are not supporting me, and I would appreciate it if they just shut up, really. I sent Kerry a letter to that effect and got one of his talking out of both sides of the mouth responses.

I hate all the politicians and would prefer if everybody voted all of these self-serving, deaf, dumb and blind idiots out of office.

I wish that Bush would support the troops by ensuring that they have proper equipment and placing their needs over loyalty to friends and political advisors. Congress has been passive for too long and it is time for Congressional representatives from BOTH parties to assert Congressional power and reign in this president. Clinton, Obama, McCain, Hagel, et. al. have not created this debacle---it's Bush and his gross mismanagement of this war that have caused this disaster.

It is the responsibility of Congress to speak up and question what is happening in Iraq with our armed forces. It is the patriotic duty of American citizens to hold their leaders accountable.

I love our troops and have sent them care packages, but I do not support Bush and I do not support this war.
 
the Pentagon doesnt want a draft-despite General McAfferys gloom and doom-and to a large extent he is right-the all volunteer force is a better quality more dedicated force and thats what they want to keep. They will beat the reserve component to death before they will push for a draft to increase end strength

They can't even go the National Guard chicken route
To the person who was crude enough to use this statement to describe the National Guard-even in the context of what you said-i wish i could slap your face-my husband has been a "chicken" for 29 years-hes saved several lives from fires and floods-and if the "chickens" handn't been around to help during Katrina where would New Orleans be? He has served a tour in iraq-as have about 400K reservists-many many of whom volunteered to return-i hope you NEVER need the help of a Guardsman-because you dont deserve it.
 
They will never institute a draft for several reasons, but the chief of which - as has already been stated - is that it would be political suicide to do so.

Besides...you think the Republicans want their kids to have to fight this war?!? :lmao: They can't even go the National Guard chicken route the way Shrub did, since the National Guard is now doing much of the fighting in this war.

But hey...what's a little thing like force readiness when you are talking about the president having to admit he made a colossal mistake? :rolleyes:

And to mattsdragon....I hate to tell you, but supporting the troops while not supporting the war is very much the position of MOST Americans at this point. Personally, I feel sorry for the folks in the military. They've been used and abused by a president who does nothing but mouth platitudes, and the military personnel seem to eat it up, completely ignoring his every action. And as for "their job" in Iraq...could you define that, please?

WOW:sad2: DH went into the NG after his first 4 years active duty. He did OCS and did 10 years. After 9/11, he requested to go back on active duty and had been for a little over 5 years. That National Guard crack was really uncalled for.
 


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