Will the Draft Come Back to the USA?

[wvrevy]

They can't even go the National Guard chicken route
To the person who was crude enough to use this statement to describe the National Guard-even in the context of what you said-i wish i could slap your face-my husband has been a "chicken" for 29 years-hes saved several lives from fires and floods-and if the "chickens" handn't been around to help during Katrina where would New Orleans be? He has served a tour in iraq-as have about 400K reservists-many many of whom volunteered to return-i hope you NEVER need the help of a Guardsman-because you dont deserve it.

Umm...I was talking about Bush's (and other rich kids) dodge into the Guard during Vietnam (which I thought was rather obvious ). I even stated that the Guard is no longer that kind of an outlet, since those folks are doing a very large part of the work in Iraq now-a-days. I wasn't insulting your husband, or his service. I was insulting those that used the guard 40 years ago to get out of real service to their country.

But, by all means...please feel free to take my comments completely out of context. Also glad to see that differing opinions make someone "unworthy" of NATIONAL GUARD assistance. Glad you know so much of what the constitution of this country says about free speech.

 

[phorsenuf]

the Pentagon doesnt want a draft-despite General McAfferys gloom and doom-and to a large extent he is right-the all volunteer force is a better quality more dedicated force and thats what they want to keep. They will beat the reserve component to death before they will push for a draft to increase end strength

They can't even go the National Guard chicken route
To the person who was crude enough to use this statement to describe the National Guard-even in the context of what you said-i wish i could slap your face-my husband has been a "chicken" for 29 years-hes saved several lives from fires and floods-and if the "chickens" handn't been around to help during Katrina where would New Orleans be? He has served a tour in iraq-as have about 400K reservists-many many of whom volunteered to return-i hope you NEVER need the help of a Guardsman-because you dont deserve it.

(in ) (out)

 

[wvrevy]

WOW DH went into the NG after his first 4 years active duty. He did OCS and did 10 years. After 9/11, he requested to go back on active duty and had been for a little over 5 years. That National Guard crack was really uncalled for.

Oh, good grief...It was OBVIOUS that I was talking about the Guard as an outlet for rich kids to get out of Vietnam. READ THE WHOLE POST, fer' crying out loud.

Here let me put it simply since some seem to be deliberately (at least...I hope it's deliberate) misunderstanding my comment. The National Guard is no longer the type of outfit where rich brats can avoid doing real service to their country. They now do quite a bit of work, both domestically - when they can - and in Iraq. In fact, they are carrying way too much of the burden that the overwhelmed active duty military can't handle.

I have a lot of respect - and sympathy - for those in the guard now.

There...is that plain enough?

 

[Jabber_Jaws]

Oh, good grief...It was OBVIOUS that I was talking about the Guard as an outlet for rich kids to get out of Vietnam. READ THE WHOLE POST, fer' crying out loud.

Here let me put it simply since some seem to be deliberately (at least...I hope it's deliberate) misunderstanding my comment. The National Guard is no longer the type of outfit where rich brats can avoid doing real service to their country. They now do quite a bit of work, both domestically - when they can - and in Iraq. In fact, they are carrying way too much of the burden that the overwhelmed active duty military can't handle.

I have a lot of respect - and sympathy - for those in the guard now.

There...is that simple enough?

Wow DaJaView. Kind of like Rosie vs EH.

 

[Fitswimmer]

Oh, good grief...It was OBVIOUS that I was talking about the Guard as an outlet for rich kids to get out of Vietnam. READ THE WHOLE POST, fer' crying out loud.

Here let me put it simply since some seem to be deliberately (at least...I hope it's deliberate) misunderstanding my comment. The National Guard is no longer the type of outfit where rich brats can avoid doing real service to their country. They now do quite a bit of work, both domestically - when they can - and in Iraq. In fact, they are carrying way too much of the burden that the overwhelmed active duty military can't handle.

I have a lot of respect - and sympathy - for those in the guard now.

There...is that simple enough?

You and I may not agree too often, but I always enjoy reading your posts-usually because our ideas are so different and you make me think.

I thought that the "chicken" comment came out of your hatred for the President and I passed it off as that, but I can see how it would seem insulting to Guard members who did not use it as an escape clause from fighting in Vietnam. I know you didn't mean to insult those folks, but I don't think it was really obvious, even after reading the whole thing. I don't think people were deliberately misreading you.

 

[lyeag]

Wvrevy, I did get your point, but unfortunately it still came off badly. Plenty of people in the NG have been in a very long time. It was common in my husband's old unit for people to do 20 or more years. That would put many of them in well before any of this current mess started. National Guardsmen and their families have taken ribbing, joking, insults, whatever, about being "weekend warriors" for a long time. Their service is valuable no matter if deployed or not. They go in knowing there is always a chance of being called up. I don't see that as going the chicken route-then or now.

 

[katerkat]

No way is a draft going to happen. It's political suicide and usually brought up to make a political point. The several times Rangel has brought it up, he's said it was just to make a point and he knew it would never ever happen. (Barring an invasion of the US.)

BTW, I read the "chicken" comment in context knowing the poster. People who just clicked on this thread and haven't read enough of the political threads might get confused. Another reason I miss the Debate Board.

 

[Tiziminchac]

BTW, I read the "chicken" comment in context knowing the poster. People who just clicked on this thread and haven't read enough of the political threads might get confused. Another reason I miss the Debate Board.

My thoughts exactly. It's amazing how easy it is to offend someone. I've done it myself, without meaning to. And I've been offended, sometimes easily. It can be tough out there trying to express yourself.

 

[Barbossa]

We might be one major crisis away from resuming the draft. Be it in Iran, North Korea, or some other rogue country. We've stretched our forces to the limit in Iraq, so another major conflict would require more drastic means to increase these forces (i.e. a draft). And like 9/11, the citizenry of this country would write a blank check to the President and the Congress to do as they please. There would be no political fallout (at least in the near term).

 

[wvrevy]

Hmm...This is getting completely off-topic, but I feel compelled to make one more NG post, then I'll shut up and we can discuss it on another thread if you guys want.

I do not view the National Guard of 1967 in the same light as 2007...or any of the preceding 20 years, really. During the Vietnam era, the guard was often used by those of privilege to avoid the draft. The Guard back then wasn't doing anywhere near the fighting that the other branches were, so the odds were very heavily towards people in the guard never having to fight in that war. Bush is one very good example. His daddy got him in the guard, and he spent the Vietnam War defending Oklahoma from the VietCong.

The Guard of the past 20 years has been something different. The people that joined during those relatively peaceful times wanted to do something for their country, but didn't necessarily want to make the military their entire life the way you pretty much have to in the active duty forces. Just to be clear, there is absolutely nothing wrong with that, IMO. In fact, I think it is fairly noble to want to dedicate as much time and effort to helping their country as those men and women did / do. Yeah, being active duty at one point, I probably have made a few jokes about "weekend warriors". But I know that the Guard has been there many times in the recent past when people in trouble needed them. I respect the people that have done so much for their country (and, frankly, gotten so little in return).

The Guard since 2001 has changed again. Rather than being what they are designed to be - a reserve force - this administration has used them as a supplement to their understaffed main force. For all intents and purposes, the line between "Guard" and "Active Duty Military" has all but ceased to exist. That is honestly all I meant by my previous comment...that the Guard is no longer a place where one could go to avoid the conflict, the way it most certainly was during Vietnam.

Again, I apologize if anyone honestly mistook my comments as a shot at the men and women of our current National Guard, as they certainly were not intended as such.

Ok...now...Back to the Draft that will never happen.

 

[Fitswimmer]

We might be one major crisis away from resuming the draft. Be it in Iran, North Korea, or some other rogue country. We've stretched our forces to the limit in Iraq, so another major conflict would require more drastic means to increase these forces (i.e. a draft). And like 9/11, the citizenry of this country would write a blank check to the President and the Congress to do as they please. There would be no political fallout (at least in the near term).

If there were, GOD FORBID, another attack like 9-11, then I think the country might go along with a draft. However, I still think it would be a really tough sell. I could see a demand for a withdrawal from Iraq to fight the new enemy before a draft.
I don't think the country or the Congress will be satisfied with "intelligence" this time around either. There's going to have to be a LOT more connecting the dots before any President is going to get the go ahead for war again.

 

[jimmiej]

Besides...you think the Republicans want their kids to have to fight this war?!? They can't even go the National Guard chicken route the way Shrub did, since the National Guard is now doing much of the fighting in this war.

But hey...what's a little thing like force readiness when you are talking about the president having to admit he made a colossal mistake?

wvrevy, your so biased (blinded, hateful), you can't even see straight! Your post is downright rude & uncalled for. You should apologize to all the NG folks.

ETA: I posted after your clarification, but I was so mad I didn't care!

 

[salmoneous]

If there were, GOD FORBID, another attack like 9-11, then I think the country might go along with a draft.

But in such a situation, I don't think we'd need a draft.

Heck, if right now George Bush came out and said, "The guy who attacked us on 9/11 is still alive. I apologize for dropping the ball and taking my eye off him. But now we are going to go after him. Unfortunately, he is holed up in the wastelands of Pakistan, and it's going to take 100,000 more troops than we have today to get him out. If 100,000 young men and women will sign up for the armed forced in the next few weeks, I promise you we will use those forces to get Bin Laden and everyone else associated with the 9/11 attacks," doesn't anyone not think the recruiting stations would be flooded?

 

[lyeag]

Wvervy, thank you for your last post. You and I rarely see eye to eye, but I do appreciate you taking the time to clarify what you meant. Sometimes it is a fuzzy line between what a poster seems to be implying and what a reader infers.

 

[GeorgeG]

Never say "never!" As much as we'd all like to think there's a solution to the current situation, whether it be "stay the course" or "pull the troops out," there's so much more going on in the world.

While not advocating anything, at least in this post, we could find us at war with many fronts and more enemies than just Muslim terrorists. I don't care who's in office, the people and countries that want a piece of is isn't going away anytime soon.

Contrary to popular belief, the cold war never ended. It just took a lower profile. Russia is now taunting us with an "unstoppable" new missile and that country has always, and I mean always, been supportive of any little country who will fight us.

While diplomatic solutions are always a good first defense, they will not always work. The United Nations probably has as many member nations who hate us as those who support us. And, many of those countries hate us while stuffing their pockets with our foreign aid!

We need to maintain military strength even in times of peace. If all, or even a small percentage of, the countries around the world who hate us decide to declare war on us at the same time, we, the most powerful country in the world, would be eye-deep in poop.

We do have plenty of brave young people who will readily step up to the plate if (or when) things get bad, but we also have plenty of lazy cowards. I remember them well from when I returned from Vietnam forty years ago.

One of my greatest concerns these days is that with all the people and countries around the world who want a piece of us, we'll be too busy fighting ourselves here at home. I guess that might get at least the National Guard units back from overseas.

The only way to avoid a draft somewhere down the road is to get over political differences and volunteer.

 

[lustergirl]

<<< gulf war veteran here!! My kids would be going to Canada if there was to be a draft. My older son is 18 and my youngest son is 13- no way are they going in the armed services!! Been there did that- I know from experience. I have the utmost respect for our soldiers of today just not the policies that stand behind them.

 

[wvrevy]

Wvervy, thank you for your last post. You and I rarely see eye to eye, but I do appreciate you taking the time to clarify what you meant. Sometimes it is a fuzzy line between what a poster seems to be implying and what a reader infers.

Thanks. Honestly, I was absolutely shocked that the comment about Bush drew the reaction it did. Guess I could have phrased it a bit differently to show that I was making fun of him, not the National Guard.

 

[Barbossa]

I don't think the country or the Congress will be satisfied with "intelligence" this time around either. There's going to have to be a LOT more connecting the dots before any President is going to get the go ahead for war again.

I agree with this, though if there was another 9/11 scale crisis (God forbid from me also), our politicians would again bow to the mood of the country. Not once has a politician from the Democratic party (FYI, I'm a Democrat) stated the real reason that he or she voted for the war in Iraq: that 9/11 was still fresh in the country's minds and that it would have been political suicide to vote against it. This would happen again in a true crisis.

 

[wvrevy]

wvrevy, your so biased (blinded, hateful), you can't even see straight! Your post is downright rude & uncalled for. You should apologize to all the NG folks.

ETA: I posted after your clarification, but I was so mad I didn't care!

Sorry...that bolded part just cracked me up. Since you posted after my clarification...You were mad about...what, exactly? That I made fun of Shrub for being a draft dodger? You must be mad an awful lot these days, jimmie.

Not gonna respond to the rest of this for fear of pulling the thread off topic.

 

[wvrevy]

I agree with this, though if there was another 9/11 scale crisis (God forbid from me also), our politicians would again bow to the mood of the country. Not once has a politician from the Democratic party (FYI, I'm a Democrat) stated the real reason that he or she voted for the war in Iraq: that 9/11 was still fresh in the country's minds and that it would have been political suicide to vote against it. This would happen again in a true crisis.

Couldn't agree more. The administration managed to stir up public outcry about the imaginary threat from Iraq, and then made sure the vote came before the congressional elections in 2002. Those that saw through the BS and voted against it (Max Cleland, for example) were then painted as unpatriotic and ripped to shreds in the media. Yes, Max Cleland - an amputee and war veteran - was ripped apart as being "unpatriotic" by a bunch of people who never served.

Sadly, I have to disagree with Fitz' comments. If another attack as severe as 9/11 happened, I absolutely believe that the public outcry for vengeance would supercede any reasonable cries for caution. I certainly hope I am wrong about that, but I don't think so.