Will the Draft Come Back to the USA?

[phorsenuf]

Thanks. Honestly, I was absolutely shocked that the comment about Bush drew the reaction it did. Guess I could have phrased it a bit differently to show that I was making fun of him, not the National Guard.

I think the confusion came when you referenced the Republicans kids (which seemed in the present) to the President (in the past) so that kinda made it like you were talking about the Guard in the present tense.

Does that make sense?

 

[Fitswimmer]

Couldn't agree more. The administration managed to stir up public outcry about the imaginary threat from Iraq, and then made sure the vote came before the congressional elections in 2002. Those that saw through the BS and voted against it (Max Cleland, for example) were then painted as unpatriotic and ripped to shreds in the media. Yes, Max Cleland - an amputee and war veteran - was ripped apart as being "unpatriotic" by a bunch of people who never served.

Sadly, I have to disagree with Fitz' comments. If another attack as severe as 9/11 happened, I absolutely believe that the public outcry for vengeance would supercede any reasonable cries for caution. I certainly hope I am wrong about that, but I don't think so.

What can I say? I'm still trying to think the best of people-even the politicians. I'm sure I'll get over it.

 

[wvrevy]

What can I say? I'm still trying to think the best of people-even the politicians. I'm sure I'll get over it.

2004 did that for me. Never again will I assume that the American people will "get it".

 

[Tiggeroo]

Again I think the big stumbling block here would be the ban of homosexuals and women in combat. If they bring forth a draft they'd have problems here. Can you prove a person is homosexual if they use that as a reason to not serve? Can you force young men to risk their lives but not women? It will cause complications that no matter what answer a polit. gives will cause problems.
Also, today training time is much longer. A typical two year draft would leave little war service. College is also much more accesible today, meaning that you will be faced with the issue of saying that only kids who are lacking any academic skills and unable to get into a community college will be available.
Now if we pulled out the war service and wanted to make a requirement of service to your country of one year for financial aid it might work. Then you could channel these youths into desk jobs handled by military and free up volunteers for other duties.

 

[Bust*A*Stitch]

Thanks. Honestly, I was absolutely shocked that the comment about Bush drew the reaction it did. Guess I could have phrased it a bit differently to show that I was making fun of him, not the National Guard.

I was shocked too, some people need to learn to re-read posts and actually understand the words written before they decide to type off the handle like more than a few posters around the community board do on a regular basis.( Please bring back the debate board)

If you were in America anytime around the election of 2000 you know darn well what wvrevy was talking about, and these direct attacks against someone that gave YOU the benefit of the doubt to know your current history (yes the poster assumed you were smart) were and are uncalled for.

wvrevy I applaud you for being so nice about this, but it is unfortunate that you had to re-state yourself 3 times to get the point across.

I may have to hold my tongue at work, but not in my private life.

Ohh yea, I have twin brothers both have served in guard status.

One went the chicken route and was a bass drummer in an Army Reserve band that played for all the brave ones returning from the first Gulf War.

The other twin went active duty shortly after that and had moved over to the reserves to be closer to his daughter in 1999. Of course his air guard was activated and he served in various locations in Saudi Arabia and Iraq and flying with missions over Afghanistan.

 

[bevtoy]

30 years so far, and no recruitment issues, dispite what some "experts" say.

Alright, the draft is something that anti-war people keep bringing up. They use it as a scare tactic, thinking it will get people to want us out of the war. Ok, I'm a vet of the war, I'm not necessarily a fan of the war and I would like to bring people home, obviously, but right or wrong, our troops over there have a job to do. People who try to be-little their efforts by calling for a re-instatement of the draft, or, as Hillary, Barack and John have done, voting against funding of the war, are not supporting the troops as they claim to be doing. Their lip service is more stinging than if they were just to join the protestors and throw blood at us. Everytime one of them says "I support the troops, but not the war" it makes me cringe, because they are not supporting me, and I would appreciate it if they just shut up, really. I sent Kerry a letter to that effect and got one of his talking out of both sides of the mouth responses.

I hate all the politicians and would prefer if everybody voted all of these self-serving, deaf, dumb and blind idiots out of office.

Well stated.

 

[Uuaww]

If we are attacked by another COUNTRY, and a war happens, I would be fine with fighting, if the war is for a good reason, like our safety, I would fight. Now if the war in Iraq turned into needing a draft, I say send the young folks who are pro war to fight, why should I fight your war. Then if they needed still more soldiers, then I would be ok with going.

 

[bevtoy]

I do not think we will ever see the draft again.
In this day and age with our changing society they would have to draft women. Wives and mothers , teenage daughters, I think it possibly could cause a civil war.

 

[Barbossa]

Those that saw through the BS and voted against it (Max Cleland, for example) were then painted as unpatriotic and ripped to shreds in the media. Yes, Max Cleland - an amputee and war veteran - was ripped apart as being "unpatriotic" by a bunch of people who never served.

I big "right on" to that. It was apalling how real patriots who saw real combat were branded as unpatriotic by politicians who've never seen the inside of a barracks. The GOP even went after their own when George W. Bush attacked John McCain as being unpatriotic. This was John-Freakin'-McCain, a man who chose to remain a POW in Vietnam, being called unpatriotic by a bunch of draft dodgers. Un-freakin'-believable.

 

[jimmiej]

Sorry...that bolded part just cracked me up. Since you posted after my clarification...You were mad about...what, exactly? That I made fun of Shrub for being a draft dodger? You must be mad an awful lot these days, jimmie.

Not gonna respond to the rest of this for fear of pulling the thread off topic.

No, I was offended by your NG comment & didn't buy your "clarification." You said it-you own it!

 

[LuvDuke]

Will the Draft Come Back to the USA?

If we intend to keep fighting long wars, it most certainly will be. You cannot keep shoving the responsibilities on the same military personnel/families over and over again. That is reality.

America is going to have to make a choice of either stop fighting protracted wars OR watch all their children, not just someone else's, do the fighting.

 

[LuvDuke]

wvrevy, your so biased (blinded, hateful), you can't even see straight! Your post is downright rude & uncalled for. You should apologize to all the NG folks.

ETA: I posted after your clarification, but I was so mad I didn't care!

I don't think wvervy owes anyone an apology. The fact is, the NG during the VietNam war, was the service of choice for the children of the rich and powerful to avoid service in VietNam. George Bush took that route as did Dan Quayle and Lloyd Bentson's son.

You can fantasize about George Bush being the greatest military hero since Julius Caeser and the greatest pilot since Chuck Yeager, but the fact is George Bush was in the NG to avoid VietNam. And, no, he had no chance of going to VietNam because his plane had been decommissioned for service in VietNam. He found a safe place to hide just like many of the children of the rich and powerful.

So, let's cut the phony outrage and admit the reality of history.

 

[Fitswimmer]

I don't think wvervy owes anyone an apology. The fact is, the NG during the VietNam war, was the service of choice for the children of the rich and powerful to avoid service in VietNam. George Bush took that route as did Dan Quayle and Lloyd Bentson's son.

You can fantasize about George Bush being the greatest military hero since Julius Caeser and the greatest pilot since Chuck Yeager, but the fact is George Bush was in the NG to avoid VietNam. And, no, he had no chance of going to VietNam because his plane had been decommissioned for service in VietNam. He found a safe place to hide just like many of the children of the rich and powerful.

So, let's cut the phony outrage and admit the reality of history.

agreed. What Wvervy was talking about was the Vietnam era and there were a LOT of people who avoided combat in any number of ways. (college, Canada, the National Guard) Some of them became famous later on, but most of them just went on with their lives. It's only the ones who are outspoken war supporters now that I have an issue with.

I would think anyone who is a regular here on this board and on these type of threads would know better than to think he was being insulting to anyone who joined because they really wanted to be of service to the country. I can understand someone who was new here misunderstanding it though.

 

[salmoneous]

No, I was offended by your NG comment & didn't buy your "clarification." You said it-you own it!

I'm curious which part of the post got you so mad. The part about the NG being a route for people who wanted to avoid Vietnam? Or the part about today's NG being on the front lines in Iraq?

 

[disneyfan67]

I don't think wvervy owes anyone an apology. The fact is, the NG during the VietNam war, was the service of choice for the children of the rich and powerful to avoid service in VietNam. George Bush took that route as did Dan Quayle and Lloyd Bentson's son.

You can fantasize about George Bush being the greatest military hero since Julius Caeser and the greatest pilot since Chuck Yeager, but the fact is George Bush was in the NG to avoid VietNam. And, no, he had no chance of going to VietNam because his plane had been decommissioned for service in VietNam. He found a safe place to hide just like many of the children of the rich and powerful.

So, let's cut the phony outrage and admit the reality of history.

You're very correct. I read several books on the Johnson Presidency and one of the reasons he didn't activate the NG or the reserves is that he didn't want to alarm America in the early stages of the Vietnam war. According to some of the released papers from his administration, Johnson feared by activating and sending those units over there, would cause the public to realise that Vietnam was a bigger issue than most realised back in the early days of the conflict.

Serving in the NG became a safe loop hole for many of the well connected like those you mentioned above. I also read that in the later stages of the war, it was pretty hard for a regular guy to get into those units. I could only imagine the strings that were pulled and favors called in, so certain people didn't have to serve.

I don't particularly care for John Kerry or his political history, but I have always respected him for going to Vietnam as a volunteer. He came from a rich family and could have followed the same route as many other rich kids did. He didn't though and he served his country, that counts for something in my book. Everything after that about him is up for grabs, but he did serve.

 

[jimmiej]

I'm curious which part of the post got you so mad. The part about the NG being a route for people who wanted to avoid Vietnam? Or the part about today's NG being on the front lines in Iraq?

NG=chicken

You can fantasize about George Bush being the greatest military hero since Julius Caeser and the greatest pilot since Chuck Yeager, but the fact is George Bush was in the NG to avoid VietNam. And, no, he had no chance of going to VietNam because his plane had been decommissioned for service in VietNam. He found a safe place to hide just like many of the children of the rich and powerful.

Where did I take up for GWB?

 

[Charade]

They can't even go the National Guard chicken route
To the person who was crude enough to use this statement to describe the National Guard-even in the context of what you said-i wish i could slap your face-my husband has been a "chicken" for 29 years-hes saved several lives from fires and floods-and if the "chickens" handn't been around to help during Katrina where would New Orleans be? He has served a tour in iraq-as have about 400K reservists-many many of whom volunteered to return-i hope you NEVER need the help of a Guardsman-because you dont deserve it.

A big thank you to your husband.

 

[NeverEnufWDW]

Oh, good grief...It was OBVIOUS that I was talking about the Guard as an outlet for rich kids to get out of Vietnam. READ THE WHOLE POST, fer' crying out loud.

Here let me put it simply since some seem to be deliberately (at least...I hope it's deliberate) misunderstanding my comment. The National Guard is no longer the type of outfit where rich brats can avoid doing real service to their country. They now do quite a bit of work, both domestically - when they can - and in Iraq. In fact, they are carrying way too much of the burden that the overwhelmed active duty military can't handle.

I have a lot of respect - and sympathy - for those in the guard now.

There...is that plain enough?

Pray tell...please tell us about YOUR military service record.

 

[katerkat]

Pray tell...please tell us about YOUR military service record.

Air Force from '93 to '97 (wvrevy, not me.)

 

[cardaway]

You said it-you own it!

Maybe you'll remember those words the next time you try and backpeddle.