Will GREAT Dining Ever Return to WDW?

Sure they can get a better cut of meat, but that better cut of meat cost more money. They can charge outrageous theme park prices for it *because they can* and people still pack in to LC, hence they buy the cheapest cuts they can get away with.

If you want a better cut then head to Yatchmans Steakhouse, of course you will pay a premium above LC prices.

The extra money is doodly squat. As you said, they already can charge whatever they darn well please and get away with it. Why not give the guest the choice of a "prime" piece of meat at least somewhere? Why accept the mediocrity???

Yachtsman's gets their provisions from the same places as every other WDW restaurant. Shula's gets their own from their own corporate farms.
 
The extra money is doodly squat. As you said, they already can charge whatever they darn well please and get away with it. Why not give the guest the choice of a "prime" piece of meat at least somewhere? Why accept the mediocrity???

Yachtsman's gets their provisions from the same places as every other WDW restaurant. Shula's gets their own from their own corporate farms.
So you want them to open a 3rd steakhouse? WDW has figured out that the masses will pay crazy prices for cheap food, why bother changing the model since it is (pardon the pun) a cash cow? WDW is a master at marketing. They charge prime beef prices for non prime beef and people are lining up to do so because it is on Mickey Mouse property. If they were to open a true prime steakhouse it would be even more expensive than a Morton's and Ruth's and it wouldn't be on the dining plan. I doubt that there is a market for such a place. If people want that off dining plan then they will go to one of the many prime steakhouses off property.
 
So you want them to open a 3rd steakhouse? WDW has figured out that the masses will pay crazy prices for cheap food, why bother changing the model since it is (pardon the pun) a cash cow? WDW is a master at marketing. They charge prime beef prices for non prime beef and people are lining up to do so because it is on Mickey Mouse property. If they were to open a true prime steakhouse it would be even more expensive than a Morton's and Ruth's and it wouldn't be on the dining plan. I doubt that there is a market for such a place. If people want that off dining plan then they will go to one of the many prime steakhouses off property.

OK. You and I can no longer discuss this.

I do not accept that Disney is just another business. Call me naive, call me ideological, call me a dinosaur but my Disney, the standard I will hold them to, is far greater than just a profiterring company. As long as there is hope I will continue to grasp at straws and call them on the carpet. If this is your sole regard to Disney, then as I said, we have nothing to discuss.
 
If the dining plan would go away or free dining went away would be a start. Plus I dont know if certain places get their own food, ie: le cellier or if they all pull from the same food pool from WDW.
 

OK. You and I can no longer discuss this.

I do not accept that Disney is just another business. Call me naive, call me ideological, call me a dinosaur but my Disney, the standard I will hold them to, is far greater than just a profiterring company. As long as there is hope I will continue to grasp at straws and call them on the carpet. If this is your sole regard to Disney, then as I said, we have nothing to discuss.
I appreciate that you believe WDW is held to some other standard, but frankly Disney provides what people are willing to pay for, it is NOT a charity. Sure they are great at customer service and making people special, but they aren't in the business of giving things away. The people spoke by wanting a "deal" (free dining) more than they wanted a true fine dining experience that they are willing to pay for consistently. Sure plenty people would love a prime steak for an Outback Steakhouse price, but that just isn't in the cards. I don't see this changing.
 
I appreciate that you believe WDW is held to some other standard, but frankly Disney provides what people are willing to pay for, it is NOT a charity. Sure they are great at customer service and making people special, but they aren't in the business of giving things away. The people spoke by wanting a "deal" (free dining) more than they wanted a true fine dining experience that they are willing to pay for consistently. Sure plenty people would love a prime steak for an Outback Steakhouse price, but that just isn't in the cards. I don't see this changing.

I don't believe Disney is held to another standard. I hold them to another standard. Walt's standard. If they choose to profiteer and the masses continue to accept it then eventually Disney will become Wal-Mart and I will no longer go there (and we're getting close tho that).

This thread was designed to discuss the possibility that WDW might somehow see the future within the dining venue and return to their innovative and quality oriented ways.
 
Pirate

The only way I forsee this is to incorporate the dining plan. Too many guests will not patronize otherwise. I'd start with cinderellas castle for dinner - charge 4 dining credits and strictly enforce the dress code.

this will require a 4th dining plan category which combines both standard and deluxe - ie 2 deluxe ts/1cs/ 2 snack/day.
 
We are definite foodies, and overall I was pretty impressed with the food I ate at Disney.

Narcoosee's was by far our best meal, and to be honest, one of the best meals I've had. They might not have a sommelier, but whoever is pairing their wines knows his stuff. My husband & I ordered different fishes that each came with a recommended Chardonnay. They were so similar, yet in the ways they were different perfectly complimented each fish. Someone knew their stuff. My kids' meals were quality - the salmon (which they LOVED) was wild caught Alaskan salmon that was nicely seasoned and baked. Our other signature experience, Citricos, was also very good.

We weren't on the dining plan. I will say that we've decided for our next trip we'll stick to the character meals & signature restaurants. The meal cost wasn't that much more than the cost of meals at a regular TS place especially when you took into consideration how much better the food was.
 
Pirate

The only way I forsee this is to incorporate the dining plan. Too many guests will not patronize otherwise. I'd start with cinderellas castle for dinner - charge 4 dining credits and strictly enforce the dress code.

this will require a 4th dining plan category which combines both standard and deluxe - ie 2 deluxe ts/1cs/ 2 snack/day.

Hi crusader. Long time.

I have thought of this type of possibility too and I'm all for anything that will even start to bring some innovation back.
 
Been lurking. A fp thread on the theme parks board pulled me out of hybernation.

but to your points. The biggest hurdle may be venue - hence the castle's allure. If I were to think of another, possibly the Great Movie Ride.

You're right. they'd get the business, and the guest will pay with dining credits if need be.
 
I don't believe Disney is held to another standard. I hold them to another standard. Walt's standard. If they choose to profiteer and the masses continue to accept it then eventually Disney will become Wal-Mart and I will no longer go there (and we're getting close tho that).

This thread was designed to discuss the possibility that WDW might somehow see the future within the dining venue and return to their innovative and quality oriented ways.
You were always about hoping that Disney would stick to that high standard. They haven't for a long time. It's nice to hope that they'll go back but I personally don't see it. Those in charge would have to find a motive and the fact that Walt wanted it wouldn't likely be enough. Cynical but likely true.
 
if you guys want some really good food, drive up i-4 and go to olive garden.. some awesome eyetalian food. /sarcasm
 
if you guys want some really good food, drive up i-4 and go to olive garden.. some awesome eyetalian food. /sarcasm
Hey it's fast food Italian style and does what it's supposed to. Fill people up with OK food and good breadsticks. They might beat most Disney Italian restaurants just with the breadsticks. ;)
 
I would not count on it. With the economy and dining plans, I would expect a continued decline. :(
 
Disney may not be Walmart yet, but it's getting pretty darn close to Target at this point. Have you seen what they sell in their stores ?
In 2006, our first trip, each resort had its own merchandise, with a bit of the generic stuff thrown in. Now all you can find is the generic stuff. AKL's gift shop is the exception, and even there, the selection is ridiculous compared to what they were offering just 2-3 years ago.
And the quality... :eek: $22 for a shirt that you'll be able to wash once or twice if you're lucky before the design starts to fade.

Disney is cutting corners in every possible way (2 Fantasmics a week instead of 2 Fantasmics a night), hiring less personnel, buying everything in bulk... that sounds dangerously close to Wally World.
 
While the food at WDW may never return to what it once was there are still some bright spots. We ate at California Grill again last week and it was outstanding as always. The food & service were excellent. They also still have some different items that you do not see at every other rewstaurant. We also ate at the new restaurant in Mexico at Epcot and were really surprised by how good the food was. They had several different dishes on there menu.
 
You were always about hoping that Disney would stick to that high standard. They haven't for a long time. It's nice to hope that they'll go back but I personally don't see it. Those in charge would have to find a motive and the fact that Walt wanted it wouldn't likely be enough. Cynical but likely true.

I knew people from the old DIS would remember that I came full circle, from unrepentant Disney defender to where I am now.

I agree with you and what marivaid just posted. A return to a quality based company is very unlikely and really at this point I'm just hoping for the dining portion as that would be easiest. Little investment, easily trackable results, easy to pull the plug.

The truly sad thing is that so, so many people defend the "Disney is a business" argument as if it's written in some business school textbooks that seeking profitability, quality and being innovative are somehow mutually exclusive (they are not). The acceptance of the mediocrity (everywhere in our lives) is what is lowering the standards and we, the consumer, are ultimately to blame.
 
A few (seemingly) random observations and comments.

There are literally tens of thousands of people staying at WDW on any given night, and as folks on this Board know, the competiton level for tables at the "nicer" restaurants (however one wants to define that) is brutal. The notion that WDW cannot support two or three more high end "off the dining plan" restaurants is ludicrous. There is room for another V&A, and perhaps two more places that are what the CG used to be.

As much as we like to talk about affordability and value, there are still, on any given night, thousands of people staying in Disney hotels that charge in excess of $400 per night. Indeed, many people pay multiples of that. I mean no disrespect to the hard-working folks who save for a vacation at the All-Star Resorts and go with free dining, but most of the people paying $500 per room at the Grand Floridian don't care nearly as much about whether an entree costs $30 or $45. That $15 increase is not going to move the meter on their $10,000 vacation. Folks who often vacation at Ritz Carlton's, Four Seasons, and the Luxury Collection hotels go to WDW also. This clientele would no doubt appreciate a higher level of dining in smaller venues that are not on the dining plan. No need to displace any existing restaurants. But adding a few more venues into a system that already books to capacity all of its TS restaurants months in advance is not asking much.

Take the Poly as an example. Guests there pay over $400 for a room. The clientele there is obviously pretty well off. Yet there is not a single fine dining restaurant in the complex. You may love Ohana, and this is not a debate about its alure. But waiters walking aroung hacking off chunks of meat from a communal skewer is not "fine dining" by any definition. There is no reason why the Poly cannot have a 100 seat beachside restaurant with a view of the fireworks. I promise you that it would sell out every night.

For people who have commented that "guests do not travel to WDW for the food", well, I think that misses the point. People would if they could. Not too long ago, WDW was featured on the cover of Wine Spectator magazine as a dining destination. It had been written up in every major food magazine. It hosts a Food and Wine event for several weeks a year. It CAN be a dining destination, but only once it figures out the proper interplay between the dining plan and fine dining. Consider this evolution. Appetizers are often the place where the chef gets to experiment and create the most. But apps aren't part of the dining plan, so Disney now serves fewer apps than ever before. What is the logical result? The kitchens stop caring about apps and the quality of the dining experience suffers. I think that the best solution, and one that would certainly work given the economic demographic of WDW guests coupled with the fact that restaurants are fully booked months in advance, is to open a handful of new, non-dining plan restaurants that are higher end, smaller scale places serving food that can compete with New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Napa Valley and Los Angeles. If nothing else, the smaller size of these places would create a buzz of exclusivity, and we all know what that means. People would be falling all over themselves to get in. And if it is unpalatable (pardon the pun) to exclude dining plan guests, then simply give them a certain dollar credit toward their bill and have them pay OOP for the overage.
 
A few (seemingly) random observations and comments.

There are literally tens of thousands of people staying at WDW on any given night, and as folks on this Board know, the competiton level for tables at the "nicer" restaurants (however one wants to define that) is brutal. The notion that WDW cannot support two or three more high end "off the dining plan" restaurants is ludicrous. There is room for another V&A, and perhaps two more places that are what the CG used to be.

As much as we like to talk about affordability and value, there are still, on any given night, thousands of people staying in Disney hotels that charge in excess of $400 per night. Indeed, many people pay multiples of that. I mean no disrespect to the hard-working folks who save for a vacation at the All-Star Resorts and go with free dining, but most of the people paying $500 per room at the Grand Floridian don't care nearly as much about whether an entree costs $30 or $45. That $15 increase is not going to move the meter on their $10,000 vacation. Folks who often vacation at Ritz Carlton's, Four Seasons, and the Luxury Collection hotels go to WDW also. This clientele would no doubt appreciate a higher level of dining in smaller venues that are not on the dining plan. No need to displace any existing restaurants. But adding a few more venues into a system that already books to capacity all of its TS restaurants months in advance is not asking much.

Take the Poly as an example. Guests there pay over $400 for a room. The clientele there is obviously pretty well off. Yet there is not a single fine dining restaurant in the complex. You may love Ohana, and this is not a debate about its alure. But waiters walking aroung hacking off chunks of meat from a communal skewer is not "fine dining" by any definition. There is no reason why the Poly cannot have a 100 seat beachside restaurant with a view of the fireworks. I promise you that it would sell out every night.

For people who have commented that "guests do not travel to WDW for the food", well, I think that misses the point. People would if they could. Not too long ago, WDW was featured on the cover of Wine Spectator magazine as a dining destination. It had been written up in every major food magazine. It hosts a Food and Wine event for several weeks a year. It CAN be a dining destination, but only once it figures out the proper interplay between the dining plan and fine dining. Consider this evolution. Appetizers are often the place where the chef gets to experiment and create the most. But apps aren't part of the dining plan, so Disney now serves fewer apps than ever before. What is the logical result? The kitchens stop caring about apps and the quality of the dining experience suffers. I think that the best solution, and one that would certainly work given the economic demographic of WDW guests coupled with the fact that restaurants are fully booked months in advance, is to open a handful of new, non-dining plan restaurants that are higher end, smaller scale places serving food that can compete with New York, Chicago, San Francisco, Napa Valley and Los Angeles. If nothing else, the smaller size of these places would create a buzz of exclusivity, and we all know what that means. People would be falling all over themselves to get in. And if it is unpalatable (pardon the pun) to exclude dining plan guests, then simply give them a certain dollar credit toward their bill and have them pay OOP for the overage.

Wow!!! What a GREAT post. Thank you.:thumbsup2
 




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