Will GREAT Dining Ever Return to WDW?

[GeorgeG]

Over the past 25 years the biggest challenge about going to WDW was trying to decide which restaurants we wanted to eat at because there were so many favorites. Now, it's more about trying to find the restaurants that are still worth eating at, and that's the truth!

We were at Epcot Friday and lunch was counter service at the American Adventure. There were no lines and the food sucked, except you can't really do much to screw up french fries. Dinner was at the Rose & Crown and was good, but nowhere as good as it once was. The bottom line is you won't go hungry, but it won't be special in the way that used to put WDW above any other theme park. I think you could get a better hot dog at a carnival.

 

[cluvsdisney]

Over the past 25 years the biggest challenge about going to WDW was trying to decide which restaurants we wanted to eat at because there were so many favorites. Now, it's more about trying to find the restaurants that are still worth eating at, and that's the truth!

We were at Epcot Friday and lunch was counter service at the American Adventure. There were no lines and the food sucked, except you can't really do much to screw up french fries. Dinner was at the Rose & Crown and was good, but nowhere as good as it once was. The bottom line is you won't go hungry, but it won't be special in the way that used to put WDW above any other theme park. I think you could get a better hot dog at a carnival.

This is how I feel. Setting aside the signature places, the more casual places are mostly mediocre. I think the chains like Chilis, Cheesecake Factory, TGI Fridays are much better - their menus have much more variety, the prices are more reasonable, the food tastes better and they can turn a table quickly.

I am not an adventurous eater but I still want my food to taste good.

 

[LovesTimone]

There is much debate on the dining plans, I know that many regular families like mine - might not make a trip if free dining was not offered - or the CS choice when your kids are small - you are interested in getting them to eat because of all the excitement and this is the food that they eat. I personal feel that CS choice have improved greatly and have more balanced choice - and Character meals are just that character meals - the buffets are good... better than say golden corral.
As our kids got older and wanted more sit down we went with the DDP fair enough price or for free even better. Then again still wanting the Character meal - lets face it they are fun and there are family moments that you are still talking about - are you talking about the food, in some ways yes - mickey waffles ect ..But is most ways not so much. But what you really talk about is what was going on, making a train with Winnie the pooh and friends, dancing with them, swinging your napkin around, this is to me the point, of the magic.

Our children are all college aged now - we now go with DDXDP - We have become more adventurous as a family - 2ts meal at least 2 nights - But those 2ts service meals are for a birthday- anniversary, graduation or some other celebration. We enjoy the offerings at most of the restaurants.
We are there as a family to spend time together thats the magic of it and I think that disney hits it right on the mark.

Dh and I go to the mouse now and then alone and we see and find things different to enjoy, and we enjoy better dining, but we still go to soak up the magic and remember past trips and plan future trips.

We look forward to the start of a new generation of disney trip as our family changes.

As far as 5 star dining we do enjoy it at home as we live in central fl, there are lots of choices for that type of dining - when we want it -

As for Disney it seems to have the pulse on what is going on, I know lots of people would not have had a vacation if there was not the options that disney provides so that every family can get a piece of the magic and keep within there budget.

Those are my thoughts

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

I mean no disrespect by calling the general dining public, the average American guest, the "masses". It's just my term for the vast majority of guests who in some cases don't want, in some cases don't care, in some cases can't afford, in some cases couldn't appreciate truly exceptional meals. I've already mentioned that my taste personally isn't educated enough to appreciate the nuances of V&A's but I still appreciate that WDW offers this experience for those who do.

sotoalf, I think you'll notice that I agreed with your comment about the great diversity of American eating preferences. While it is very, very true that we are very much becoming an overweight, fast food eating society - It is at the same time very true that a definite segment of our society has brought Indian and Asian cuisine to new heights in this country and elevated the status of culinary difference makers (the celebrity chefs) to great heights. So my point is, there should be room for all at WDW within the realm of maximum profit potential.

sotoalf, If you recall, the signatures were a 90's development (An Eisner brainchild) and remained in their original state for a very few years (and not very full, hence our problem today). Artist Point, for example, may be good now (I agree) but at it's inception it served exotic dishes from the great Northwest almost exclusively. Not just one bison steak or one unusual appitizer as it does now. It was a very unusual restaurant.

Re: the dress code. This seems to be another 'hot button' item to many, that doesn't affect me too adversely. I really think this is a symptom of what has happened (though I'm not saying it's not important).

 

[GeorgeG]

I'm learning here that the general public wants inexpensive food they can eat with their fingers, especially younger folks who have no idea what to do with a knife and fork. I can be very happy with burgers and hot dogs, but Disney should at least not insult even the general public with burgers and hot dogs that are of such low quality a lot of people can't even finish them. But, I guess that's okay as long as they were paid for. Give the public what they want, but at least give them decent quality food.

 

[marivaid]

I'm learning here that the general public wants inexpensive food they can eat with their fingers

Then you and I are not reading the same thread.

 

[Uncleromulus]

Another Uncleromulus story perhaps relating to the "general public" and what they want as food.
Used to be a nice restaurant at the Swan/Dolphin called Sum Chows. Upscale Asian, good beer and wine list. We went several times and each time we saw fewer and fewer people. I had to ask our server about that one night when we were one of only two tables in the entire restaurant. His answer--a large number of people walked in (or up) to the restaurant wanting nothing more than Chow Mein, Egg rolls, and Wonton soup. He saw parties every night that would not come in (or even walk out) when the saw the menu offerings and prices.
That was our last visit because they went out of business before our next trip.

prncess674 sums it up pretty well--look at all the threads we see asking where is the cheapest spot to eat, or where can we eat meat and potatoes and keep all the sauce, etc off. They far outnumber the threads asking about true quality dining.

 

[gibbersome]

Would be nice--but I doubt it will happen. They actually HAD another V&A type restaurant (The Empress Room) and once V&A opened, it ceased to exist.
Here's a short story that may be of interest:

Back in the 70's we loved Papeete Bay. Great food, entertainment. Went regularly and noticed it got LESS and less crowded. One night it was SO bad the manager was outside handing out menus to people walking by. So I wrote a letter to the manager and asked what was going on. He actually called me back--the answer was that they found most Poly visitors were interested in cheap, quick meals, or buffet/character meals. Good food and entertainment was of little or no interest.

Then the menu changed. Prices dropped and it went mostly Chinese.

And Papeete Bay went right out of business to be replaced by that awful 'Ohana.

As for CG, there USED to be a great supper club up there--with name entertainment. But because of the view, they found they could pack a new restaurant (CG) nightly with adults and kids scrambling to see the fireworks.
So why do anything else??

Ahh, sir! You've put me to shame. I thoroughly enjoyed Ohana on our last trip. The food was good, we loved the service and the girlfriend thought the same. However, if we had paid out of pocket for the meal, our night might have been ruined somewhat.

With the Disney dining plan (and paying upfront for the food), the check is no longer a fearful obligation, but rather a badge of glory. The check would arrive and one would bask is self-satisfaction knowing the money saved by being on the dining plan.

Yet after reading your post I feel I have been duped. We may never experience the level of Papeete Bay had to offer unless I visit V&A. It's a tragedy.

 

[GeorgeG]

Then you and I are not reading the same thread.

Same thread, different take. As much as some people claim to want good dining, it still comes down to the majority wanting to eat cheap food in their bathing suits. I'm sorry, but that's as nice as I'm going to put it.

 

[marivaid]

Same thread, different take. As much as some people claim to want good dining, it still comes down to the majority wanting to eat cheap food in their bathing suits. I'm sorry, but that's as nice as I'm going to put it.

The fact is that Disney World is still primarily a theme park. People go there to have fun, and "fun" doesn't necessarily include a six-course meal in an evening dress. I have plenty of fancy restaurants near me at home, what I don't have is Pluto sharing my breakfast, or huge skewers of shrimps coming out of a fire pit.

On another subject, you picked the most unimaginative CS in all of Epcot(Liberty Inn) - what did you expect?! This is the place people who think rosemary is a weird spice go to. Yeah I'm still not over the rosemary thread, for those who remember it


ETA : Something else to consider as far as the "cheap" issue. If you're a local, you're not already spending hundreds (or in our case, thousands) of dollars for airfare, car rental, hotel room and theme park tickets. When your vacation already adds up to 3K or more for a week, you are more reluctant to spend another $400 on one dinner. Even awful Ohana, in its finger-eating-bathing-suit-wearing glory, cost us $240 for 4 adults this summer.

 

[GeorgeG]

The fact is that Disney World is still primarily a theme park. People go there to have fun, and "fun" doesn't necessarily include a six-course meal in an evening dress. I have plenty of fancy restaurants near me at home, what I don't have is Pluto sharing my breakfast, or huge skewers of shrimps coming out of a fire pit.

On another subject, you picked the most unimaginative CS in all of Epcot(Liberty Inn) - what did you expect?! This is the place people who think rosemary is a weird spice go to. Yeah I'm still not over the rosemary thread, for those who remember it


ETA : Something else to consider as far as the "cheap" issue. If you're a local, you're not already spending hundreds (or in our case, thousands) of dollars for airfare, car rental, hotel room and theme park tickets. When your vacation already adds up to 3K or more for a week, you are more reluctant to spend another $400 on one dinner. Even awful Ohana, in its finger-eating-bathing-suit-wearing glory, cost us $240 for 4 adults this summer.

I've only been local for five years. For twenty years prior to moving here we spent as much as $9.000 for our WDW vacations, which is how we know what used to be and is no longer.

 

[snykymom]

there was a time when disney was noted for having great restaurants. And isn't dining in the parks and resorts part of disney's advertisements?

I think the problem most of us have with this excuse, is it is just that. an excuse. I look for good quality dining whenever I step into a restaurant whether it's at Disney, my home town of Sicklerville NJ or in Paris France. Do you actually go out to dinner and say, "It's totally ok if the food is mediocre?"
I never understand how people feel just because they are on the dining plan or free dining it's ok to serve mediocre food?

There's a different between "mediocre" and "adequate." TGIF, Red Robin, Red Lobster, etc. are not fine dining establishments but their food is adequate - you get what you expect and what you paid for. I think many feel that Disney no longer give you what you paid for. (And that' probably as a result of no longer "paying" for it. Of course, people are paying for it through rack rate rooms, but that's another issue.)

I find it very interesting when you ask people would they pay cash for ts at disney for the most part you get a resounding NO. That tells me that as long as the "perception" is that we get it free, it's totally acceptable to be lousy.

I will (and do) pay cash for TS, since I dislike the dining plan, whether paid or free. One thing that I do is order appetizers. They tend to be more adventurous since they're not included in the regular dining plan.

IMHO great dining is still there at the signature restaurants. It has just getting very expensive. It seems to me that the cash paying customer is now subsidizing "free dining" and the DDP.

We have always loved the Brown Derby and dined there for lunch last week. The food is still great, but the entrees at lunch are now priced at former dinner prices, $28-$40. I can only assume that dinner prices have increased proportionately. The TIW definitely helps to reduce the "pain", but in this economy I don't think the price increases are warranted except to maintain Disney margins.

No question. In fact, the major reason I get an AP is for the TiW. It saves me enough to offset the increased cost of the AP.

It's easy to say Americans are "unadventurous" and prefer fast food, but how then do you explain the explosion of sushi and Indian restaurants in the last ten years? The popularity of wine? Of "Food Network"? To me it says something that you can now buy fresh fruit in the theme parks and fast food options aren't just limited to burgers and chicken fingers. With all due respect to Uncleromulus, we used to frequent WDW in the seventies and eighthies, and no way was the food then superior to what was offered from, say, 1995 onwards. Too often in those days WDW attempted a sophistication its chefs couldn't achieve.

We haven't returned to WDW enough in the last three years to notice a significant drop in food quality, but on my last visit Citricos and Artist Point were as solid as they ever were (they're not very popular restaurants anyway). The farther off the beaten track you venture, the more likely the food will still hold up. Otherwise we have to remember that WDW has always been a theme park, and homogenized menus is What Theme Parks Do.

My DH is an excellent cook and loves to watch Food Network. Last year, my DD and I went to Disney and did the 'eaters tour" of Disney - signature dining every day. We also went to V&A. DH was surprised, but she looked at him and said, "It's all your fault, making me watch Food Network all these years!" So this trip, he's coming for a couple of days and wants to do V&A. Works for me.

Another Uncleromulus story perhaps relating to the "general public" and what they want as food.
Used to be a nice restaurant at the Swan/Dolphin called Sum Chows. Upscale Asian, good beer and wine list. We went several times and each time we saw fewer and fewer people. I had to ask our server about that one night when we were one of only two tables in the entire restaurant. His answer--a large number of people walked in (or up) to the restaurant wanting nothing more than Chow Mein, Egg rolls, and Wonton soup. He saw parties every night that would not come in (or even walk out) when the saw the menu offerings and prices.
That was our last visit because they went out of business before our next trip.

prncess674 sums it up pretty well--look at all the threads we see asking where is the cheapest spot to eat, or where can we eat meat and potatoes and keep all the sauce, etc off. They far outnumber the threads asking about true quality dining.

Or the threads that say, "What's the most expensive thing I can get on the dining plan? Never mind if I'll like it or not; I just want to get my money's worth." Or "My kids are really picky . . . "

Just an aside - good dining at Disney is recent. We went in 1982 on our honeymoon (yes, I'm dating myself, and yes, it's the same DH). The one thing we commented on more than anything was that Disney had so many different names for a hot dog & a hamburger! That's all you could get at CS. That has at least improved a bit.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

The fact is that Disney World is still primarily a theme park. People go there to have fun, and "fun" doesn't necessarily include a six-course meal in an evening dress. I have plenty of fancy restaurants near me at home, what I don't have is Pluto sharing my breakfast, or huge skewers of shrimps coming out of a fire pit.

On another subject, you picked the most unimaginative CS in all of Epcot(Liberty Inn) - what did you expect?! This is the place people who think rosemary is a weird spice go to. Yeah I'm still not over the rosemary thread, for those who remember it


ETA : Something else to consider as far as the "cheap" issue. If you're a local, you're not already spending hundreds (or in our case, thousands) of dollars for airfare, car rental, hotel room and theme park tickets. When your vacation already adds up to 3K or more for a week, you are more reluctant to spend another $400 on one dinner. Even awful Ohana, in its finger-eating-bathing-suit-wearing glory, cost us $240 for 4 adults this summer.

You're sounding a little defensive. No one is saying we should do away with choices, only that Disney we grew up with is capable of much, much better than this. BTW, I love 'Ohana personally. "Like" or "dislike" is personal and more debatable but quality is a bit harder to dispute.

 

[MyTwoPrincesses]

Look at what sells - many people live and die by meat and potatoes. People complain that Sanaa is weird, Biergarten has weird food, Akershus... People think that Marrakesh and San Angel Inn are adventurous. Just look at the popularity of Le Cellier. The menu doesn't look all that special, but it's the kind of food that most people eat.

At home, we do eat all sorts of cuisines. We eat Thai, Ethiopian, Indian, Lebanese, Mexican, Salvadoran, Colombian, Japanese, Chinese (both Northern and Southern) with regularity. Our kids are probably more adventurous than average. But when family comes to town from the Midwest, we try to find the most boring meat and potatoes establishements because that's what they eat.

Disney restaurants serve what sells. I was very pleasantly surprised by the offerings, nonetheless. When we booked our first vacation, I thought that it was basically hamburgers, fries, chicken sandwiches, and breakfast foods. But we ended up having some great meals at places like Sanaa and The Wave.

 

[GeorgeG]

I'm as meat and potatos as it gets. I have always been able to get somethiing I like at just about any restaurant in WDW, whether it be the old Empress Room or any of the resort or park restaurants. I don't think the issue with many of us is so much the diversity of food or how exotic the choices should be, but with the decliniing quality of the food. It used to be you paid a few dollars more then the average good steak might cost, but the steak was well above average. Now, the steak is, by comparison to some years ago, not as good and the prices are sometimes double to triple what the meal served is worth. That's less of an issue if you're on a dining plan, at least for some, and it just can't always be rationalized by dining in a "signature" restaurant or with characters. Sure, that's worth a few extra bucks, but it doesn't forgive high-priced marginal food. I suppose much of this is lost on those who never experienced what it was like 10-20 years ago.

 

[Planogirl]

You are all talking about fine dining and how there is little of it at WDW. I can agree with that. I also think that casual dining can be very good and there is little at that quality at WDW. The food is generally acceptable and there is some good food but just not enough of it at the prices WDW charges.

We don't get the DDP when we are onsite because it's not worth it for two people. We pay out of pocket and I realize that that makes it seem much more expensive. I just wish that I enjoyed the food more for what I have to pay. But then I'm still bitter about how Akershus was changed. I loved the old place and it never seemed empty to me.

 

[eliza61]

Over the past 25 years the biggest challenge about going to WDW was trying to decide which restaurants we wanted to eat at because there were so many favorites. Now, it's more about trying to find the restaurants that are still worth eating at, and that's the truth!We were at Epcot Friday and lunch was counter service at the American Adventure. There were no lines and the food sucked, except you can't really do much to screw up french fries. Dinner was at the Rose & Crown and was good, but nowhere as good as it once was. The bottom line is you won't go hungry, but it won't be special in the way that used to put WDW above any other theme park. I think you could get a better hot dog at a carnival.

That's why I cringe when I hear the excuse "no one goes to disney for the dining" or "what do you expect for an amusement park".
George, it hasn't even been 25 years. the first year we went with our kids ~15 years ago, we actively browsed the menus to see where we want to eat.
Last year I made 6 ADR's over a 10 day trip and we did not make one. we stood outside of each restaurant looking at the menu and trying to convince ourselves to go in. we ended up turning around.

I just long for hte days when I did leave a wdw restaurant saying "wow, that was a great meal"

 

[eliza61]

Another Uncleromulus story perhaps relating to the "general public" and what they want as food.
Used to be a nice restaurant at the Swan/Dolphin called Sum Chows. Upscale Asian, good beer and wine list. We went several times and each time we saw fewer and fewer people. I had to ask our server about that one night when we were one of only two tables in the entire restaurant. His answer--a large number of people walked in (or up) to the restaurant wanting nothing more than Chow Mein, Egg rolls, and Wonton soup. He saw parties every night that would not come in (or even walk out) when the saw the menu offerings and prices.
That was our last visit because they went out of business before our next trip.

prncess674 sums it up pretty well--look at all the threads we see asking where is the cheapest spot to eat, or where can we eat meat and potatoes and keep all the sauce, etc off. They far outnumber the threads asking about true quality dining.

I totally agree but can't it be good? that's what I never understand. Can anyone actually defend Tony's as "good" italian? I hear people all the time say "well you go there for the experience" Gimme a break, how much imagination does it take to make a decent sauce? Even Cinderellas royal table. Yes I get it, you go to have breakfast with the Princess but Jeez louise you're telling me you can't whip up a decent scrambled egg? Hell, forget fine dining, how sad is it that I get excited when they get PANCAKES right. same with Le Cellier. I'll fork up the cash but as God is my witness, I know they can get a better cut of meat.

 

[Peter Pirate 2]

That's why I cringe when I hear the excuse "no one goes to disney for the dining" or "what do you expect for an amusement park".
George, it hasn't even been 25 years. the first year we went with our kids ~15 years ago, we actively browsed the menus to see where we want to eat.
Last year I made 6 ADR's over a 10 day trip and we did not make one. we stood outside of each restaurant looking at the menu and trying to convince ourselves to go in. we ended up turning around.

I just long for hte days when I did leave a wdw restaurant saying "wow, that was a great meal"

I usually do leave Bluezoo saying Wow! But then that's not really a "Disney" restaurant, is it?

I agree though, I remember we used to eat at FF so often they all knew us by name. Chef John taught us about wine, Chef Barry always gave us their experimental dishes, Chef Richard taught us what was meant by California cuisine, Chef Jens came out and sang happy birthday to my daughter. Everything was just tremendous. Now it's still good (basically the same menu Chef John gave them years ago) but the quality has dipped drastically, the prices have gone up, up, up.

 

[prncess674]

I know they can get a better cut of meat.

Sure they can get a better cut of meat, but that better cut of meat cost more money. They can charge outrageous theme park prices for it *because they can* and people still pack in to LC, hence they buy the cheapest cuts they can get away with.

If you want a better cut then head to Yatchmans Steakhouse, of course you will pay a premium above LC prices.