Will DVC remove the Riveria resale restrictions due to Covid-19 /economy?

[Aussie RJ]

Resale restrictions will be removed if legal action is done/threatened (or if regulators find them unlawful).
There are grounds to do that, but not enough motivated people because they grandfathered the previous resale owners. At some point there will be a critical mass of people interested in their removal and something will happen.

When DLH DVC Tower and maybe one or two more rise then perhaps the juice will be worth the squeeze. Right now, Riviera only... nah.

 

[John Purcell]

Resale restrictions will be removed if legal action is done/threatened (or if regulators find them unlawful).
There are grounds to do that, but not enough motivated people because they grandfathered the previous resale owners. At some point there will be a critical mass of people interested in their removal and something will happen.

I am not quite following here, and I am not a lawyer. If I sign a timeshare saying I get xyz - why would that be considered a restrictively illegal? Other timeshares, like all of them, are way worse.

Credit to you for the spirit of your post. I also think there’s a grander scheme going on here, and I am trying to coherently put something together without sounding like a negative conspiracy theorist (ie psychopath) LOL!!!!

But the short of it will be resales within a new DVC bubble (ex legacy folks).

 

[sethschroeder]

While true, the longer it is not sold the longer Disney is on the hook for Dues themselves. Also the longer they hold on to the Debt they took out to build this resort. I can't imagine Disney is happy with how long its taking to sell out Aulani but thats a whole other extreme.

Debt? They sold 20% roughly I can't see them not already in the black from the profit side of things.

Whether it's this arm of Disney or that arm of Disney, in some way Disney is paying the operating costs and taxes for the rest of the property.

But turning around and renting rooms out for $600/night. Also since it needs to be open it's a great place with space that Disney can ship cash guests for likely less cost to Disney since Disney is capped on MFs right?

 

[zavandor]

I am not quite following here, and I am not a lawyer. If I sign a timeshare saying I get xyz - why would that be considered a restrictively illegal? Other timeshares, like all of them, are way worse.

Credit to you for the spirit of your post. I also think there’s a grander scheme going on here, and I am trying to coherently put something together without sounding like a negative conspiracy theorist (ie psychopath) LOL!!!!

But the short of it will be resales within a new DVC bubble (ex legacy folks).

There are at least two problems:
1) Riviera has been added to the Vacation club with different rules than the other resorts. The POS of the original 14 resorts stated that a new resort can be added to the club and have access to the reservation component only if its rules are substantially similar to the existing resorts. One might have different opinions on this, but I think the rules for Riviera are substantially different
2) A timeshare can be defined a Vacation Club, according to the Florida law, only if there is a reservation component that allows access to the other resorts in the the club. Since not all owners are allowed to use the resevration component, than for Riviera it's more like a preferred exchange programme than what is defined in the law. Riviera is not part of a Vacation Club and the definition and marketing materials are at best misleading, at worst illegal.
Problem is: current members have no reason to push for legal action: at best someone else will get a benefit, at worst they'd lose access to Riviera if Disney decides to detach it and create dvc2. But there are solid grounds for a lawsuit.

 

[CastAStone]

A timeshare can be defined a Vacation Club, according to the Florida law, only if there is a reservation component that allows access to the other resorts in the the club. Since not all owners are allowed to use the resevration component, than for Riviera it's more like a preferred exchange programme than what is defined in the law. Riviera is not part of a Vacation Club and the definition and marketing materials are at best misleading, at worst illegal.
Problem is: current members have no reason to push for legal action: at best someone else will get a benefit, at worst they'd lose access to Riviera if Disney decides to detach it and create dvc2. But there are solid grounds for a lawsuit.

Anyone Disney is marketing the property to is buying into a vacation club as you define it. Disney isn’t marketing the property to resale owners not selling restricted resale contracts. Does that not render the whole thing moot?

 

[zavandor]

Anyone Disney is marketing the property to is buying into a vacation club as you define it. Disney isn’t marketing the property to resale owners not selling restricted resale contracts. Does that not render the whole thing moot?

I don't know the cunsumers protections laws in the US/Florida, but here in the EU it would be considered misleading and sanctionable. They are advertising a "Vacation Club", but what they're selling is a timeshare with a priviledged access to exchange with other resorts. Sure, people then have to sign documents in which they acknowledge they understand the rules, but they went into the sale pitch thinking they were looking at a Vacation Club. Is it legal? I don't know.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I don't know the cunsumers protections laws in the US/Florida, but here in the EU it would be considered misleading and sanctionable. They are advertising a "Vacation Club", but what they're selling is a timeshare with a priviledged access to exchange with other resorts. Sure, people then have to sign documents in which they acknowledge they understand the rules, but they went into the sale pitch thinking they were looking at a Vacation Club. Is it legal? I don't know.

Florida is not a state known for strong consumer or worker protections.

State of Florida approved all of the timeshare incorporation docs for Riviera.

 

[zavandor]

Florida is not a state known for strong consumer or worker protections.

State of Florida approved all of the timeshare incorporation docs for Riviera.

Quoting Drusba from this post:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/is-riviera-part-of-disney-vacation-club.3805549/
Also, that the Riviera restrictions were approved by the Florida timeshare entity – the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes -- means little. The usual process of “approval” is more of one of not expressing disapproval unless there is a major challenge raised while the applicable documents are being filed and full investigation as to whether the challenges are valid. That Division’s approval of Riviera POS documents is not determinative of any real issues in a subsequent lawsuit challenging whether the resale restrictions are valid under the statutes.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

Quoting Drusba from this post:
https://www.disboards.com/threads/is-riviera-part-of-disney-vacation-club.3805549/
Also, that the Riviera restrictions were approved by the Florida timeshare entity – the Division of Florida Condominiums, Timeshares, and Mobile Homes -- means little. The usual process of “approval” is more of one of not expressing disapproval unless there is a major challenge raised while the applicable documents are being filed and full investigation as to whether the challenges are valid. That Division’s approval of Riviera POS documents is not determinative of any real issues in a subsequent lawsuit challenging whether the resale restrictions are valid under the statutes.

You still have a lot more faith in Florida being willing to overturn a prior approval than you ought to. Florida prides itself on minimalist regulation.

 

[jarestel]

Over the years there has been a lot more talk about DVC lawsuits than actual DVC lawsuits. Take that for what it's worth.

 

[Aussie RJ]

Over the years there has been a lot more talk about DVC lawsuits than actual DVC lawsuits. Take that for what it's worth.

I’m pretty sure the 2020 points charts debacle would have gone legal without retraction.

 

[LAX]

Over the years there has been a lot more talk about DVC lawsuits than actual DVC lawsuits. Take that for what it's worth.

Sometimes the talk/threat of a lawsuit is enough for DVD to backtrack or at least compromise. I think the recent point chart reversal is a good example of such talk/threat. If there is enough interest/concern to look into legality of the restriction, maybe DVD would reconsider.

LAX

 

[zavandor]

Sometimes the talk/threat of a lawsuit is enough for DVD to backtrack or at least compromise. I think the recent point chart reversal is a good example of such talk/threat. If there is enough interest/concern to look into legality of the restriction, maybe DVD would reconsider.

LAX

As far as I am aware:
- people got the free tickets after the promotion ended, using points from a previous UY. DVC didn't want to grant them at first
- people were harassed to sign the OKW quit claim every time they checked in, after threatening legal action, they stopped
- 2020 point chart debable

Also, another one is brewing, for 2042 when owners who didn't sign the quit claim might get the extension for free.

DVD don't like bad publicity, if there is a chance they might lose, they compromise.

 

[OKW Lover]

As far as I am aware:
- people got the free tickets after the promotion ended, using points from a previous UY. DVC didn't want to grant them at first
- people were harassed to sign the OKW quit claim every time they checked in, after threatening legal action, they stopped

Been a member since 1995 and I don't recall these two items. Of course that may have been before the DIS Boards....

 

[jarestel]

We haven't seen the 2021 points charts yet, so it might be prudent to see what DVC has come up with this time before taking victory laps.

The problem with lawsuits against DVC is that we are effectively suing ourselves and any imposed remedies will be paid by the membership. As they say, be careful what you wish for...

 

[CLE2WDW]

Unsure if this has been mentioned but perhaps DVC keeps the resale restriction in place but lowers the point threshold for direct DVC benefits to 50-75 points. I feel like that would get a lot of people off the sideline and get a ton of small contracts sold.

 

[Wakey]

Disney will be understandably absolutely desperate for cash I imagine.

Resale restrictions and long term plans for DVC restricting resale will hardly cross the mind of those at the top who will want the cash now. The problem with the restrictions is that any tangiable benefit to DVD is years down the line- I’ve seen no evidence they have helped drive direct sales, perhaps the opposite. Due to compensation and lifespan in roles, no exec is really overly concerned with what may have a relatively minor positive consequence in 10 years in these times.

If someone models and shows that the restrictions are harming sales and removing them will drive more sales and cash, I think they’ll do it without even pausing for thought.

 

[ljlaurajane]

If reflections is truely shelved I don’t see why they would remove the restrictions as they will be in no rush to sell out riviera as won’t be moving into another property. Also Disney really doesn’t like to be seen back tracking on this sort of thing, so as a resale owner, as much as I would LOVE them to remove the restrictions I doubt that they will

 

[SL6827]

I have long suspected that DVC was expanded in part to transfer risk of a broad and deep travel slump from Disney to individual owners.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...rus-for-disney-that-is.3798557/#post-61753982

I agree with that. After 2001, they realized they needed a scape goat for such in the future.

 

[Wakey]

If reflections is truely shelved I don’t see why they would remove the restrictions as they will be in no rush to sell out riviera as won’t be moving into another property. Also Disney really doesn’t like to be seen back tracking on this sort of thing, so as a resale owner, as much as I would LOVE them to remove the restrictions I doubt that they will

Cash, the lifeblood of business. And loan repayments. They will need cash and as much of it as possible, ASAP. If it wasn’t an absolute behemoth of a company, Disney would have been looking at bankruptcy.