Will DVC remove the Riveria resale restrictions due to Covid-19 /economy?

[Sandisw]

I disagree. If your a potential new DVC member and your weighing the benefit of direct vs resale, Moonlight magic or other benefits are the only reason to buy direct. And if someone if buying direct they likely are interested or are being sold by the sales staff towards Riviera.

The average DVC buyer most likely isn’t even aware of resale.

 

[Eastcoast02]

Or what even direct prices were like just a few short years ago....

 

[ChipNdale8887]

The average DVC buyer most likely isn’t even aware of resale.

Your 100% right but with less attendance in the parks where they sell a majority of their DVC contracts they might look to sell to current members more? Who knows. I only got to thinking about the possibility of them removing the restrictions because of the last DVC Show video on Youtube. It got me thinking.

 

[OKW Lover]

Is it even legally permissible for Disney to change the resale restrictions on Riveria?

 

[LTJoeFlo]

I do not think that they remove the restrictions on Riviera. I think this was a long-term tactic to compete with the resale market. It will take several more resorts with similar restrictions before this becomes more apparent. I also would not be surprised if future deed extensions include these restrictions on some of the legacy resorts (if they have that ability).

As far as the resale vs. direct issue, I will admit that I did not know about the resale market in 2013 when I purchased VGF (earned blue card). I researched the resale market in 2018 but decided to buy direct again in 2019. Once again, I have looked at the resale market but will be purchasing Riviera later this year.

I am an Excel addict. I run the numbers on EVERYTHING! At the end of the day, I value flexibility and convenience over the difference in cost. It is the same reason some people purchase the DDP even though it makes more sense to use TiW. My CCV purchase took about 10 minutes from start to finish. I didn't want to spend time to look for a contract that fit my needs and wasn't stripped. I had read stories about ROFR, different use years, usage restrictions, etc. and didn't want to deal with that either. I have never been to a moonlight magic event or any other DVC event. The only perks I use are TOTWL, AP discount, and EPCOT lounge. I'm probably a minority.

 

[UrsulaWantsYourSoul]

We went direct for Riviera fully knowing about resale and the restrictions. That said, now that we have enough points at a WDW resort, I would be game for some resale at Grand Californian eventually just because getting direct there is so impossible - I would be fine just using those points at GC. It's just such a cool resort with the entrance right into California Adventure - love love love it. But probably before buying GC resale, we'll probably save up and sink some into the upcoming Disneyland DVC. Full disclosure, I'm mostly posting because I am dying to get to 10 posts so I can change my avatar and signature. Haha. Hello and hope you're having a great day .

 

[Aussie RJ]

I actually think they will remove the restrictions at Riviera. Given the current economic uncertainty, (probable) low park attendance and a lack of any current incentives (other than point discounts). I think DVC will depend on current members for the basis of sales for the best part of the next year. With Reflections presumably cancelled there may be no "DVC 2" for a long time. With a lack of sales and empty hotels, pressure will mount and restrictions may be the obvious change. Although I have no doubt the restrictions will surface at the DLH DVC Tower if built.

 

[heapmaster]

I called sales the other day and the lady told me when reselling a Riviera contract the new owner could use it at both Riviera and any new resorts like Reflections....not sure she knew what she was talking about or unless its a new policy we dont know of.

 

[ChipNdale8887]

I called sales the other day and the lady told me when reselling a Riviera contract the new owner could use it at both Riviera and any new resorts like Reflections....not sure she knew what she was talking about or unless its a new policy we dont know of.

This would be new. And could potentially turn the table on the restrictions somewhat. I just asked our agent how they work and asked about reflections.

 

[_auroraborealis_]

I called sales the other day and the lady told me when reselling a Riviera contract the new owner could use it at both Riviera and any new resorts like Reflections....not sure she knew what she was talking about or unless its a new policy we dont know of.

Of course, Reflections is on indefinite hold. The only other property in planning stages is the DLH DVC, which is still in community review and doesn't have the CUP approved yet.

 

[heapmaster]

Another guide today stated the other guide was wrong, and the resell restrictions are still as is, Riviera resell is still locked to only Riviera usage.

 

[Hopfather28]

Just thinking outloud here. While Disney obviously wants to sell their DVC resorts because it generally means that those rooms will be occupied and therefore producing revenue elsewhere in the World, I just don't think they are in a rush because they're on the hook for dues or because they want to quickly recoup the cost. Case and point are the DVC super owners who rent out tons of points. They don't do that to lose money. They make money on that transaction. So since a DVC roo. That is rented for about $400 per night is a $600+ for Disney in cash, it stands to reason that "dues" or debt service is there reason for selling. The reason they want it sold is to put people on property.

 

[LTJoeFlo]

Just thinking outloud here. While Disney obviously wants to sell their DVC resorts because it generally means that those rooms will be occupied and therefore producing revenue elsewhere in the World, I just don't think they are in a rush because they're on the hook for dues or because they want to quickly recoup the cost. Case and point are the DVC super owners who rent out tons of points. They don't do that to lose money. They make money on that transaction. So since a DVC roo. That is rented for about $400 per night is a $600+ for Disney in cash, it stands to reason that "dues" or debt service is there reason for selling. The reason they want it sold is to put people on property.

I don't know the operations of DVC so I could be wrong. But, I do not see DVC existing just to guarantee that people will be in their hotels. Disney doesn't need a separate entity to ensure that! DVC has to be profitable as a single company in order to be apart of the Disney conglomerate. I would imagine they make money on direct sales and loan interest. 15% interest rates can generate a lot of income!!

With that being said, DVC has to always be in a hurry to sell the resort out as soon as possible. If not, it diminishes the project's ROI. Why invest in real estate that takes 5 years to sell? This is why Disney will not develop any more off-site locations.

 

[Brian Noble]

I do not see DVC existing just to guarantee that people will be in their hotels. Disney doesn't need a separate entity to ensure that!

I have long suspected that DVC was expanded in part to transfer risk of a broad and deep travel slump from Disney to individual owners.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...rus-for-disney-that-is.3798557/#post-61753982

 

[LTJoeFlo]

I have long suspected that DVC was expanded in part to transfer risk of a broad and deep travel slump from Disney to individual owners.

https://www.disboards.com/threads/d...rus-for-disney-that-is.3798557/#post-61753982

That is an interesting take and I agree with it. I have long believed that whoever invented DVC is an absolute genius. I would pay a crazy amount of money to have been in the room when the idea was first pitched.

Your premise is that Disney wanted to limit their exposure in a travel industry that can fluctuate during times of economic hardship, pandemics, or other acts of God. My original idea for DVC is that it was an attempt to charge Disney fans the opportunity to split the cost of capital expenditures. Why commit all that money to build a single hotel or remodel an existing hotel when you can share that burden with Disneyholics? They would love to own a piece of the magic!

The greatness of DVC is that it accomplishes both, and much much more. But, the DVC company still has to be profitable to justify existence. If Disney just wanted to avoid risk, they could have done what Universal did and outsource all of their hotels.

 

[Hopfather28]

I honestly think it is a combination between protection from longterm travel slumps and putting people on property. We can disagree as to whether "putting butts in the seats" is a motive but at the very least a guaranteed flow of members to your property wherein you control pricing of everything is an unintended consequence of the other scenarios posited here.

In any event, so as to stay on topic I would suggest that neither my logic nor anyone else's logic for why they sell DVC in the first place will lead them to lessen restrictions on future resort's resale contracts.

 

[Sandisw]

Is it even legally permissible for Disney to change the resale restrictions on Riveria?

Yes. They included that as part of the POS...they can remove, put back, or change things for different members too.

Pretty much covered their bases!

 

[Brian Noble]

If Disney just wanted to avoid risk, they could have done what Universal did and outsource all of their hotels.

True, but the Mouse has been conflicted about others getting a slice of his cheese ever since Ol' Uncle Walt complained about Disneyland's tacky surroundings.

 

[John Purcell]

I don’t understand what one has to do with the other. Disney isn’t selling these things based on how well they hold resale value; I’m sure some people use that as a “reason why” when they’re talking themselves into it but people buy to own a vacation package at Disney.

You are 100% right, they ACTUALLY want resale at a lower price (but more than the buyer paid) than direct but I think everyone is underestimating “the vision” of the future of DVC. I think their timeshare experiment worked beyond their wildest dreams, now many legacy resorts are getting closer to expiration, and the Wind of Change is coming (queue Scorpions’ whistle). I actually have a ton to say on this, maybe I make my own thread....

 

[zavandor]

Resale restrictions will be removed if legal action is done/threatened (or if regulators find them unlawful).
There are grounds to do that, but not enough motivated people because they grandfathered the previous resale owners. At some point there will be a critical mass of people interested in their removal and something will happen.