Will DS12 ever forgive me if I force him to move?

[The Mystery Machine]

Now I think you are just stirring the pot.

Ya' think?

 

[turkeymama]

Honestly, I wouldn't move a kid that age unless the alternative was unemployment/poverty. If he's 12 now, he'll just be starting high school when you're ready to go, right? IMO, that is a really bad age to uproot a kid if it isn't absolutely necessary. High school is so cliqueish to begin with, and being the new kid sucks. Plus it is pretty normal for a kid's grades to suffer a bit right after a big move, which for a high schooler can make a difference in college admissions. Would it really be terrible for you & your DH to put up with the weather and the community for 3-4 years longer than you'd like for the sake of not moving your son during those difficult teen years?

You're the adult and your son won't stop loving you if you do decide to move, but you'd be wise to keep in mind that it could make the already challenging teen/high school years even more difficult for both him and for you as a parent.

I agree with the sentiment expressed here. We moved quite a bit when I was growing up, and I changed schools a few times. The last time was in 8th grade. It made a big difference, between the curriculum differences and the demographic differences of the schools. It was tough, and we were in the same town.

As parents, I think you clearly have the final say over these things, but unless you'll both be risking certain unemployment with no chance of securing suitable jobs, I wouldn't move until he was done with high school. I suffered academically, emotionally, and socially and while I didn't hate both my parents, I did blame my father for various reasons (most of my blame was justified, but that is a long story).

 

[novajeanjellybean]

Nope no kids. But how can a child be raised better than the way I was? It would be embarassing to have a kid that doesn't mature until after 25. I certainly would not want to raise a son that acted like a daughter.

You're probably in for some surprises should you ever have children.

 

[NHdisneylover]

I moved a lot as a child. I don't recall being particularly bothered by it one way or the other.

DD12 has lived in five U.S. states. She doesn't remember the first two and only vageuly remembers the third. DS10 has lived in 3 states and remembers only the last two. They both had their birthdays in December and then we moved here to Germany one month later.

We absolutely give thought and validity to our children's feelings when we move. We do not say to "just deal with it." But, we also do not stay put simply not to rock their boat.

One thing I see every time we move is when the subject is first broached they are dead set against it. When we start looking up the area and pointing out some of the "good" things to them they open up a bit but still do not like the idea. Then we visit the area we will move to and look at houses (as a family) and they warm up and start getting excited for the new adventure in their lives. We have never made a move that any of the four of us regrets.

 

[rowbear]

They had to be raised that way - made to be adults at an early age - because their families needed children to help support their families. That does not mean they were physically or emotionally ready to do that. It is a proven fact that childrens' brains are not fully developed until their early 20s.

We are fortunate that in today's society we have the luxury to allow children to be children for a little bit longer. Because of our medical resources, they will have a very very long time to be adults. We adults also have more time to guide our children, and we hope they will go out into the world with the resources they need to become productive members of society.

From Dictionary.com

em-pa-thy  /ˈɛmpəθi/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [em-puh-thee] Show IPA
Use empathy in a Sentence
–noun 1. the intellectual identification with or vicarious experiencing of the feelings, thoughts, or attitudes of another.
2. the imaginative ascribing to an object, as a natural object or work of art, feelings or attitudes present in oneself: By means of empathy, a great painting becomes a mirror of the self.

Empathy implies that someone one can identify and understrand someone else's feelings. If you do not experience feelings of your own, you cannot empathize with someone else.

Being a man does not mean that you have to be without feeling.

So it is better to raise a child who will be scared of moving and may resent his mother? How is that even possible? Shouldn't the plan be to raise a child who can handle things like moving without being emotionally scarred? I just don't get you people. The reason I was not traumatized is because I was raised to be able to handle situations like that without breaking down.

I asked my wife last night if her parents coddled her when they moved her in the middle of her sophmore year. Nope. They didn't ask if she was okay with it, they didn't discuss feelings, they expected her to deal with it because she was raised much like I was. She never cried over it, she was not traumatized, and she certainly did not resent her parents.

You want to find something wrong with the way we were raised but you won't find anything. I never said I didn't have feelings but I do not let them rule me.

In our 18 years together we have NEVER had a serious argument and the honeymoon phase of our marriage has NEVER ended. She is the pinnacle of womanhood and I adore her.

Don't you even dare feel sorry for us. We are extremely happy.

 

[MichelleVW]

One thing I see every time we move is when the subject is first broached they are dead set against it. When we start looking up the area and pointing out some of the "good" things to them they open up a bit but still do not like the idea. Then we visit the area we will move to and look at houses (as a family) and they warm up and start getting excited for the new adventure in their lives. We have never made a move that any of the four of us regrets.

Oh yeah....I would get the "I'M NOT MOVING" pretty much every time we moved. They had a fit about moving to North Dakota (only lived there a year before I retired from Air Force) but they both sobbed when we left North Dakota. They both say that they don't like living in Texas (been here a year) but they both have super friends that they can't imagine life without.

With the internet/cell phones/etc it's so easy for them to stay in contact with their friends from other states. We have DD18's BFF from North Carolina spending a week with us because the girls are still close after being geographically separated for over 2 years.

 

[rie'smom]

My dad went back to college to get his law degree and finished law school when I was 12. We moved from a arge city to a small town. It was an adjustment but I did fine. My brothers were 10, 7, and 6 and they did fine too.
Explain that the move is positive for all of you. If he's involved in sports, have him join the school team or a community team. That will help him to meet new people.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Oh yeah....I would get the "I'M NOT MOVING" pretty much every time we moved. They had a fit about moving to North Dakota (only lived there a year before I retired from Air Force) but they both sobbed when we left North Dakota. They both say that they don't like living in Texas (been here a year) but they both have super friends that they can't imagine life without.

With the internet/cell phones/etc it's so easy for them to stay in contact with their friends from other states. We have DD18's BFF from North Carolina spending a week with us because the girls are still close after being geographically separated for over 2 years.

Yes, I think the idea of change more htan the change itself is what freaks them out the most (and us adults too!).
I agree with you about the technology theses days making it easier also. Goodness, one of DDs very best friends has NEVER lived near her. They met on a cruise ship and email/call each other all the time

 

[rowbear]

You're probably in for some surprises should you ever have children.

How so? Wouldn't I want to raise a child to be self-confident and self-reliant at the earliest age possible? Is that not the goal? Do you have any idea what it is like to have practically no insecurities? Can you imagine the benefits of growing up not caring what other people thought even in the slightest? To live your life on your terms regardless of what other people did? To know that there was no situation you couldn't handle?

How can you improve upon that?

 

[missypie]

If you are planning to move right when he starts HS, remember that lots of groups/teams have auditions/tryouts the spring before school starts. Our pastor has four kids and the oldest was about to be a high school senior when they moved here. One good thing the family did was make sure the eldest daughter was in town on the date of the spring choir/music auditions so she could get a spot in the best choir. My D is on drill team and they have tryouts in April for the next year. By the time school starts they have their uniforms and have practiced for three weeks and learned all their dances for football season, so there would be no "walking on" to that group for a new kid, no matter how well she danced.

 

[BuzznBelle'smom]

Last summer, after living in the same town for over 20 years, DH and I packed up our 4 kids and moved. I'd be lying if I said it was easy for any of us--even though it was a corporate relocation to a much better job. Logistics, alone, were a royal pain! We moved from a rural district to a small city. Everything has been an adjustment. But now, on the other side of the move, I'll offer you some of my insights:

My oldest was entering 8th grade, had a very close-knit group of friends in NY, does XC, track, and a ton of dance. She was quietly PO'd at us for quite awhile. Things that helped her: a birthday laptop w/ e-mail account, many trips back to NY, joining the XC team here (and finding out she was actually good!). She's made tons of new friends and has kept in touch with her old ones. We found her the best dance studio in the area, and she's thriving there--many more options for her than in NY. Academically, it's been a little weird--she was way ahead in some classes, had to catch up elsewhere.

#2 is very different. he's a real quirky kid--always has been. Making friends isn't easy for him. he was looking forward to a new start, but still only has a small group of friends. OTOH, he's enjoyed his same activities, and added a new one--learning the bagpipes--that wouldn't have been possible in NY.

#3 started K this past fall. She's done great. #4 starts preschool next month, so not really a school issue.

Overall, we looked at it as: This was the only year we would have 2 kids out of 4 starting a new school, regardless (K and 6th grades). Plus, it would give our oldest 1 year of middle school here before she started HS.

Now that we're through the whole move, I can see more clearly that it was the smart thing to do. My children have many, many more opportunities on their doorstep than they would ever have had before. DH is in a job that he loves, where he's respected and well compensated.

I can't tell you what's right for your situation. I will say that I don't believe it should just be about what a child says they want. Their opinions and feelings should be considered, but shouldn't be a deciding factor, IMHO. You can make it easier for them by having them learn about their new hometown, setting up activities in the new town, allowing plenty of contact opportunities with old friends, and so forth. So much of it is the parents' attitude and belief that there is something better that you're moving to, rather than just moving away. I freely admitted to my kids that I was scared, too, but that this was going to be a family adventure and we were all going to try to be positive.

Sorry so long!

 

[NHdisneylover]

Nope no kids. But how can a child be raised better than the way I was? It would be embarassing to have a kid that doesn't mature until after 25. I certainly would not want to raise a son that acted like a daughter.

How so? Wouldn't I want to raise a child to be self-confident and self-reliant at the earliest age possible? Is that not the goal? Do you have any idea what it is like to have practically no insecurities? Can you imagine the benefits of growing up not caring what other people thought even in the slightest? To live your life on your terms regardless of what other people did? To know that there was no situation you couldn't handle?

How can you improve upon that?

Rowbear--to some extent I see your point and I agree with you. I would never let a child make the decision as to wether or not we moved. For one thing they cannot see the big picture as well as we can. For another, the job my DH has and where he goes on his career path will affect him and I for much longer than it will affect our kids (who will eventually move out, go to college, etc.). Also, personally I feel children need to feel that they are loved, and valued and are an important PART of the family. They need to know they are neither more nor less important than the other members of the family and when we make big decisions we look at how they will affect ALL members of the family and then do what makes the most sense for the most people in the long run.

However, you lose me first in the "just deal with it" attitude. We did turn down one very good career move for DH once becuase it was to an area that was very remote and isolated and we did feel that was not an area the kids would be able to make new friends, be involved in things they loved, get a good education, etc. In that one case the detriment to them outweighed the benefits to DH (I was pretty neutral on that one). Most of the time, we find the short term cons for the kids of having to move are vastly outweighed by the long term benefits to all four of us. Even then, I help my kids "deal with it." I want them to become self suffecient and confident and I think they need to be taught how to do so. So, I help them find the activities they love in the new location. I make sure I take them out to fun places in our new local so they enjoy the move. I make sure we are the house with the best snacks when the kids are out playing to help ease along making friends in the neighborhood, etc.

Where you REALLY, REALLY lose me is in what I quoted above. I have a son who has "practically no insecurities" and who "lives (his) life on (his) terms regardless of what other people did" or think. He is this way partly becuase of his nature. He is just naturally very easy going and unconcerned about what others think of him (though he is extremly empathetic and concerened about others being happy). But, I think DH and I also helped raise him this way. If he had you for a parent, my Ballet dancing 10 year old son would probably be very insecure and miserable (see bolded part of your quote above) Then again, I am not sure what you mean by that bolded part. What would you think of my extremly strong 12 year old daughter who has her black belt in karate She isn't into boys yet, doesn't care for shopping and isn't much of a girlie girl. She reads all the time and wants to be an aerospace engineer. She has no trouble navigating town on her own on a bike or trams and will even be comming home on a train with her younger brother next weekend alone form Berlin (5 hours). She is more self sufficeint than many adults I know. She is also pretty anxious and has a hard time coping with things (by nature--she gets it from me who in turn gets it from my dad). BUT she finds a way and does get through most of the time. She is physically and mentally one of the strongest people I know. Would you tell such a child her personality (not being girlie AND being naturally anxious) is wrong If so, I can tell you that does not create a strong, independent or conficent adult

 

[PaulaSue]

Think positive and talk positive even if it hurts you on the inside. It really helps some days!

 

[suzannen]

My oldest DD was moved at age 15 right before starting high school. She sobbed that she would never have friends like she had in middle school. She was completely wrong, of course, made friends with 5 girls those first 3 weeks of school and their friendships have been going strong for close to 15 years even with some of them now living internationally. She lost touch with those middle school friends pretty quickly and laughs about how dramatic she was about the move back then and admits the new town, school and friendships were so much better and that she was simply scared of the unknown. Honestly, I would only NOT move if it was my child's senior year and then I would delay the move one year only and that's it. Parents need to do what's best for them too. A twelve or thirteen year old simply does not have the maturity or experience to make decisions on the best place for a family to live.

 

[rowbear]

Rowbear--to some extent I see your point and I agree with you. I would never let a child make the decision as to wether or not we moved. For one thing they cannot see the big picture as well as we can. For another, the job my DH has and where he goes on his career path will affect him and I for much longer than it will affect our kids (who will eventually move out, go to college, etc.). Also, personally I feel children need to feel that they are loved, and valued and are an important PART of the family. They need to know they are neither more nor less important than the other members of the family and when we make big decisions we look at how they will affect ALL members of the family and then do what makes the most sense for the most people in the long run.

However, you lose me first in the "just deal with it" attitude. We did turn down one very good career move for DH once becuase it was to an area that was very remote and isolated and we did feel that was not an area the kids would be able to make new friends, be involved in things they loved, get a good education, etc. In that one case the detriment to them outweighed the benefits to DH (I was pretty neutral on that one). Most of the time, we find the short term cons for the kids of having to move are vastly outweighed by the long term benefits to all four of us. Even then, I help my kids "deal with it." I want them to become self suffecient and confident and I think they need to be taught how to do so. So, I help them find the activities they love in the new location. I make sure I take them out to fun places in our new local so they enjoy the move. I make sure we are the house with the best snacks when the kids are out playing to help ease along making friends in the neighborhood, etc.

Where you REALLY, REALLY lose me is in what I quoted above. I have a son who has "practically no insecurities" and who "lives (his) life on (his) terms regardless of what other people did" or think. He is this way partly becuase of his nature. He is just naturally very easy going and unconcerned about what others think of him (though he is extremly empathetic and concerened about others being happy). But, I think DH and I also helped raise him this way. If he had you for a parent, my Ballet dancing 10 year old son would probably be very insecure and miserable (see bolded part of your quote above) Then again, I am not sure what you mean by that bolded part. What would you think of my extremly strong 12 year old daughter who has her black belt in karate She isn't into boys yet, doesn't care for shopping and isn't much of a girlie girl. She reads all the time and wants to be an aerospace engineer. She has no trouble navigating town on her own on a bike or trams and will even be comming home on a train with her younger brother next weekend alone form Berlin (5 hours). She is more self sufficeint than many adults I know. She is also pretty anxious and has a hard time coping with things (by nature--she gets it from me who in turn gets it from my dad). BUT she finds a way and does get through most of the time. She is physically and mentally one of the strongest people I know. Would you tell such a child her personality (not being girlie AND being naturally anxious) is wrong If so, I can tell you that does not create a strong, independent or conficent adult

Why would he have insecurities if he had me for a parent? My father did not agree with everything I chose to do but I didn't care because I was my own person. If I had a son who chose to dance ballet I would encourage him to be the best he could be at it. When we have spoke of having children I have always said that along with ettiquette courses I wanted my children to learn martial arts, dancing, music, and anything else they were interested in. Why? Because it helps them be confident in any situation and it gives them additional skillsets that they could potentially make money off of if they ever needed.

My artistic side is in cooking. I am quite the gourmet chef. I have written countless recipes. I like to go and find ingredients I have never used before and have my own personal Iron Chef battle. Of couse I am competing against myself but it is quite the battle. The only thing I watch more than sports is the cooking channel.

So why would your son have insecurities again?


ETA: When I was in high school I went through a temporary long hair phase. My father came to me one day and told me he was not thrilled about it but I was going to keep it to keep it neat.

 

[NHdisneylover]

Why would he have insecurities if he had me for a parent? My father did not agree with everything I chose to do but I didn't care because I was my own person. If I had a son who chose to dance ballet I would encourage him to be the best he could be at it. When we have spoke of having children I have always said that along with ettiquette courses I wanted my children to learn martial arts, dancing, music, and anything else they were interested in. Why? Because it helps them be confident in any situation and it gives them additional skillsets that they could potentially make money off of if they ever needed.

My artistic side is in cooking. I am quite the gourmet chef. I have written countless recipes. I like to go and find ingredients I have never used before and have my own personal Iron Chef battle. Of couse I am competing against myself but it is quite the battle. The only thing I watch more than sports is the cooking channel.

So why would your son have insecurities again?

MY son does not have insecurity issues. But, I think a similar boy whose passion is somehting generally preceived as more feminen probably would if his father were the type to use phrases like he does not "want a son who acts like a daughter." Of course, I think a girl would have a hard time with such a parent as well. How sad to have preconceived notions about how your child should act based soley on tehir gender. The statement you amde, in the context of what else you were saying honestly sounded like you meant that being less secure/stable/capable/self sufficeint, etc. is something to be expected from girls not allowed from boys. I suppose that is how much of society viewed things 60 years ago--but most of us have moved on thank goodness. Hopefully you have as well and just expressed yourself very poorly there.

So, if your father not agreeing with you did not affect you because you were "your own person" then how come earlier in this thread you attribute how you are to how you were raised? Maybe part of you being your "own person" and able to go against your father was because you were raised with his support when you wre younger

ETA--OP sorry for going off on a tangent. Anyway, I agree with others that it is very possible to move with a child your son's age (heck I did 5 montsh ago) BUT you do have to work at it to help him find where he fits in the new location, make friends, get involved (including as others poitned out maybe being there at the "right" time for try outs, etc) and generally see the positive side of the move. You also should help him to keep in contact with his old friends.

 

[Quiksilvr]

If you need to move for work, move. Your son will get over it.

My parents live in the same house I grew up in. I lived in the same place until I went to college. I had a number of friends as a kid. I had insecurity issues, but those were going to be there whether I was in a familiar environment or not. I moved away to go to college, and I've never really looked back. I have zero friends from my childhood. The only people I keep in touch with are family. It's life, you know?

I went to college and made a bunch of friends. Now I keep in touch with a couple of them over facebook and one during occasional visits. I went to law school and made even more friends. I keep in touch with lots of them over facebook and some during occasional visits. If social networking sites weren't available, I would likely never talk to most of these people again. Why? Because I have to live my life where I am and in what I'm doing now. My wife is my best friend and that's really all I need.

Don't get me wrong, having friends from childhood can be cool. When I'm in my hometown and run into somebody, it's cool. We can reminisce and fall into the old routine quickly. But, it's not something that I'd build my life around. At some point, you move on.

 

[NHdisneylover]

If you need to move for work, move. Your son will get over it.

My parents live in the same house I grew up in. I lived in the same place until I went to college. I had a number of friends as a kid. I had insecurity issues, but those were going to be there whether I was in a familiar environment or not. I moved away to go to college, and I've never really looked back. I have zero friends from my childhood. The only people I keep in touch with are family. It's life, you know?

QUOTE]

Excellent point

 

[rowbear]

MY son does not have insecurity issues. But, I think a similar boy whose passion is somehting generally preceived as more feminen probably would if his father were the type to use phrases like he does not "want a son who acts like a daughter." Of course, I think a girl would have a hard time with such a parent as well. How sad to have preconceived notions about how your child should act based soley on tehir gender. The statement you amde, in the context of what else you were saying honestly sounded like you meant that being less secure/stable/capable/self sufficeint, etc. is something to be expected from girls not allowed from boys. I suppose that is how much of society viewed things 60 years ago--but most of us have moved on thank goodness. Hopefully you have as well and just expressed yourself very poorly there.

So, if your father not agreeing with you did not affect you because you were "your own person" then how come earlier in this thread you attribute how you are to how you were raised? Maybe part of you being your "own person" and able to go against your father was because you were raised with his support when you wre younger

What does an activity have to do with acting like a man? Your desire to make me into some emotionally withdrawn stereotypical male chauvinist because of the way I was raised is never going to work because I am not that way.

Other than having children I can't think of any only male or only female activities. I certainly cook, clean, and do laundry. My wife drives me crazy when she cooks because she doesn't clean as she goes and leaves a big mess afterwards. When I am done cooking I plate the food and let it cool while I finish off any dishes. I also prefer to hand wash over using the dishwasher but that is another story.

With that said I would want my son to be like I was when I was 12. I would not want him to be scared of moving. I would not want to be worried about emotional trauma or being resented. My parents didn't worry about me because they didn't have to worry because I was not raised to be fragile.

 

[tmarquez]

We moved 7 times when I was a kid. I'm going to say it depends on your son and his personality.

For me it was rough. I was always able to make friends, but it takes me time to let people get to know me so I never had close friends and I have no friends now that I have known since childhood.

When I had DD(6), we moved away from the town she was born in when she was 2 because I didn't want her to grow up there for various reasons. We bought a house here and I really intend on staying here because I don't want her to have to go through moves like I did.

It's a hard decision. Since he is 12, maybe you could include him in it some? He's old enough to understand the financial aspects of it versus just missing friends.