Why we think Lightning Lane is wrong

[Minnie1222]

is all you want in life money?

I think you should ask yourself that question. What do you wish to accomplish by lowering Disney's pricing? Isn't the end goal just to save yourself some money?

 

[kylenne]

That is true but then you have CLEAR which has higher priority than Pre-Check.

And these days with how many people have precheck now it's usually not a big time saver on enough instances. Many travelers use the not having to take liquids out, shoes off, jackets off, belts off, etc as the primary reason. And then there's the machines that are becoming more used where regular lanes aren't having to remove as much from their bags so eventually pre-check is going to be more devalued. Admittedly at our airport the line is either the same or less on regular security lanes since they went to a single security check point but I still always go through pre-check because I don't have to do anything but breeze on through.

Global Entry I will say has been a bigger time saver and the point being made of paying for a service for sure stands there

CLEAR was so much better before every Tom, Dick and Harry got it for free with their credit cards. I say that as one of those Tom, Dick and Harries but back before that was ever a thing and no one really knew about the service, I did pay out of pocket for CLEAR solely for MCO trips. It is still worth it there, but at airports with higher concentrations of business travelers who are much more likely to have these kinds of perks, you are generally better off using the Digital ID line if it's available. My last few trips through JFK I have noticed that.

If everyone's special then nobody's special. Funny that the airlines and CC companies are having the same tension between wanting to offer perks to attract high spenders and increase profits while ensuring those perks still have value enough to make them attractive. Airport lounges have gotten the same way, everyone has credit cards to get in so they're all crowded. And the answer they've come up with seems to be restricting access for everyone but high spenders. Centurion lounges charge you a fee to bring a guest, unless you spend $75k in a year in which case you get unlimited. And even in those exclusive spaces, they have the roped off sections for Centurion card members lol.

Disney really isn't unique with this.

 

[Pinnochio]

I'm just shocked that with the massive price increases that demand is as high as it is. People are spending like drunken sailors.

Drink up me hardy's yo ho!

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

CLEAR was so much better before every Tom, Dick and Harry got it for free with their credit cards. I say that as one of those Tom, Dick and Harries but back before that was ever a thing and no one really knew about the service, I did pay out of pocket for CLEAR solely for MCO trips. It is still worth it there, but at airports with higher concentrations of business travelers who are much more likely to have these kinds of perks, you are generally better off using the Digital ID line if it's available. My last few trips through JFK I have noticed that.

If everyone's special then nobody's special. Funny that the airlines and CC companies are having the same tension between wanting to offer perks to attract high spenders and increase profits while ensuring those perks still have value enough to make them attractive. Airport lounges have gotten the same way, everyone has credit cards to get in so they're all crowded. And the answer they've come up with seems to be restricting access for everyone but high spenders. Centurion lounges charge you a fee to bring a guest, unless you spend $75k in a year in which case you get unlimited. And even in those exclusive spaces, they have the roped off sections for Centurion card members lol.

Disney really isn't unique with this.

Admittedly we're part of both the Global Entry CC and lounge thing and yeah Disney isn't unique.

I mentioned in another comment that my husband got his Global Entry paid for by work (by in large due to Pre-Check but also because they do have some global work) and then we used our CC to pay for mine. That CC is the one we use for lounge access (under Priority Pass). We've been denied lounge access once in Chicago where from 2pm to maybe 3 or 4pm something like that they were only allowing customers with a Business seat in but in truth that worker there was probably one of the snobbiest most rude and power tripping person I've ever met he was so unnecessary about his comments and attitude. Aside from that though it's how it goes with lounge access and we know that it's part of it.

We were also denied lounge access in Paris but that was because they wouldn't allow anyone departing from the terminal we landed in to go to another terminal unless your flight departed from that other terminal so it wasn't strictly about the lounge...apparently the word on the street for there was they profile you and if you fit what they want then they'll let you through.

While lounges are great at times other times they aren't. The lounge in Cancun airport was extremely crowded but a dump in reality. The lounge in Narita airport was nice that they had actual full food options but they only had one line and food took a very long time, all the workers were nice but it was inefficient even if all you had was business clients. That said they actually had a table designated for people with children. That lounge also had no bathroom within it. And if you left you may not be able to get back in (as they advised people).

The Vegas lounge is not bad.

The lounge in Athens, Greece was probably one of the nicest, can't remember which one as we had the ability to go to more than one and they were actually right across from each other. And that lounge while it didn't have a bathroom within it the bathroom located just outside but meant for only those with lounge access was very nice and that particular one it wouldn't have been an issue to get in and out of the lounge.

Heathrow was nuts for their lounge, I believe the rule there was only 2 hours ahead of your flight (rather than the normal 3 hours ahead) and while that may seem fine the issue was how Heathrow handles flights where they don't tell you your gate until approximately 20mins or so before boarding and it's a mad dash. Heathrow is just too busy of an airport that it's not really an issue of CC users but instead just the sheer volume of flights they have going in and out, there's no space in the airport and certainly not enough in the lounge spaces.

My home airport hasn't had a lounge and only got one with having the new airport open up 2 years ago (it's a Delta lounge). We're supposed to be getting another one that is not branded by a CC or by airline and is just going to be one everyone can have access to it assumedly by paying a fee. But in truth I don't see my airport actually needing a lounge like some other airports it's more important. I guess we'll see if that one opens up how it goes as in will it be super crowded or not.

But I agree with you that with the CC's having lounge access coming with it the lounge experiences are changing for those who used to use it which includes lower overall people in them. I have seen a semi-widespread issue of people sleeping in lounges sprawled out. In Copenhagen the workers there went up to the people doing that and told them they aren't able to sleep like how they are but in other lounges there are quiet rooms with chaise chairs meant for that. It's mostly the people who end up taking several spots for seating up that are being called out. Kids are probably the biggest distractor I've seen in lounges but I also saw adults facetiming or loudly talking on the phone as if no one else is around.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Lightning Lane IS LINE CUTTING. I get heat on this message board for saying that, but when you use LL, the people in the standby line pay the price with their time and patience, NOT DISNEY. If you can justify that as being OK because you paid Disney more money, OK, but at least let's be honest about it. The day before G+ went live we all would have gone nuclear over someone going from ride to ride cutting the line and no matter how much you may enjoy using LL, you know that is true.

I actually see LLPP as a GOOD thing. The fewer people using LL the better for everyone, and if that is limited by setting an exorbitant price on LL, then so be it.

 

[Brian Noble]

The day before G+ went live we all would have gone nuclear over someone going from ride to ride cutting the line

Fastpass existed, and no one went nuclear then.

Mostly, anyway.

The complaint is not that someone is getting a shorter wait at the expense of others. It is that Disney now charges for it.

 

[Mouse Tracker]

This is not a bash on people who pay for lightning lane, but instead a criticism of how Disney is devaluing park tickets for profit.

Image waiting in line at a movie theater, DMV or grocery store, and then someone cuts in front of you? Other than disappointment, what happens? In short.. you have to wait longer which takes time from other things you would like to do.

When you buy a Disney ticket(s), it has a perceived value. For most people, most of value is derived from the amount of rides you can enjoy per day. A Lightning Lane is nothing more than a license to cut in front of everyone making others wait longer and taking time away from other things a ticket buyer would love to accomplish.

It's a devaluation of your tickets. We love Disney and they claim it is the "Happiest Place On Earth", but really is waiting in long lines all day while others cut in front truly the happiest place on earth?

I agree with the general premise of your post.

But I don't think its a "devaluation" of a park ticket, the ticket provides you access to the theme park ( I'll call that a baseline). There is no guarantee in that baseline the number or frequency of rides you experience.

Whatever level of LL a person chooses to add is an "upgrade" to the baseline, some of that does provide a guarantee of a ride experience while also increasing opportunity for more ride experiences.

Disney is a machine built to make money. It is expensive. I think most would agree the cost can be contained based on your choices when booking and what you are willing to pay for convenience.

I think of it like using a cheap airline, you pay a basic price to fly to your destination but can pay for upgrades to have a better experience.

If your expecting a "Plaid" experience paying base price, you're gonna be frustrated.

 

[Lumpy1106]

Fastpass existed, and no one went nuclear then.

Mostly, anyway.

The complaint is not that someone is getting a shorter wait at the expense of others. It is that Disney now charges for it.

Everyone got FP+. Sure, people would cut in front of you on one ride, but you'd get to cut in front of them on the next ride. It was by no means perfect. I distinctly remember the +2 hour lines at TSMM - just one example.

 

[Brian Noble]

LL is available to everyone too---at least, on the vast majority of operating days. It's up to you to decide whether or not you want to buy it.

So, again, we aren't complaining about the fact that line cutting exists. We are complaining about the fact that Disney charges for it. Which is fine, but let's be honest about it.

 

[Lumpy1106]

LL is available to everyone too---at least, on the vast majority of operating days. It's up to you to decide whether or not you want to buy it.

So, again, we aren't complaining about the fact that line cutting exists. We are complaining about the fact that Disney charges for it. Which is fine, but let's be honest about it.

Oh, OK. In that case my contention is they don't charge enough for it. Six Flags/Cedarfair charge for their cut-the-line programs too but they charge a small fortune and very few people use it. Lines are almost not affected. Another thing that would make it better is if Disney limited it to just a couple of line cuts. Say only 3 per day and you get to pick them in advance like the old FP+. Really anything to get fewer people cutting the line would be a huge improvement.

Look at that? It's the same thing I would have said about a poorly run amusement park before all the paid line cutting was a thing.

 

[Brian Noble]

Well, that might be true. But Cedar Fair's Fastlane is much more like Universal Express than the LL multi-pass; it's even more flexible than LL premiere pass, because at Cedar Fair you can re-ride. Disney's premiere pass is more expensive than CF's Fastlane---at least it is at MK and DS, and probably at EP too.

And I don't know when you were last at e.g. Cedar Point, but it is hardly true that no one ever uses it. The lines for the top coasters can positively crawl thanks to the Fastlane guests.

You do get to pick three in advance now at Disney with multi pass.

 

[HopperFan]

Disagree. Putting out a quality product that makes people’s lives better and doing so with a reasonable profit is what companies rightly should be about

First, that’s not always the case. Second, is all you want in life money? Companies are very much a part of our culture. I want that to be a culture that values people and happiness as much as profit. Walt Disney had that dream.

Capitalism is part of our culture, corporations maximizing profits is part of our culture, corporate expansions come from profits, maintaining quality often come from profits. I appreciate your desire for all companies to be more "non-profit" style but that just won't happen in a capitalist society ~ and nor should it.

You know what will curb prices? Improve products and services? When the end buyer stops buying. When people stop giving Disney their money because they feel the prices are too high, without value and the product is subpar to the price. From the looks of the parks their prices are not too high and guests are happy with the product. Now the hotels are having some good sales this year so far, so perhaps that is where Disney will have to adjust their offering.

SPEAK with your purse!!! Don't give them your money! That is the only thing that will have impact. There are lots of places I won't spend at anymore for various reasons. I am voting with my wallet.

NOTE: I have never seen it said that Walt Disney wanted his parks to be run "non-profit" style. He wanted a place where adults would enjoy as much as kids because he didn't enjoy going to the existing parks with his kids. Walt wanted folks of all ages to use their imagination and enjoy the magic.

I did find this that came from "The Wonderful World of Human Resources at Disney"

"After success in animation and movies, Disney wanted to share the magic of his creations with the world. He wanted the world to live his dream. Most of all he endeavored to build a profitable park that offered his customers a magical experience that exceeded their expectations.

More than anything, Disney desired to create a family-style park that was spotless and orderly to set it apart from other amusement parks."

 

[greeneyedchick]

The person I questioned made it sound like she could just walk up to any restaurant inside a Universal park and get seated immediately. If she could then good for her.

I was at Universal last year and walked up to Finnegans without a reservation and got seated within 20 minutes. I have also walked up to Mythos without a reservation. While I wasn't seated right away, I was offered a reservation 2 hours in the future. That's a very different approach than waking up early 30 days ahead of time and vying to get the resturants you think you'll want on at the days and times you think you'll be hungry.

 

[Minnie1222]

I was at Universal last year and walked up to Finnegans without a reservation and got seated within 20 minutes.

I have also walked up to Mythos without a reservation. While I wasn't seated right away, I was offered a reservation 2 hours in the future.

You can do the same at Disney. You can walk up or check the app for openings.

That's a very different approach than waking up early 30 days ahead of time and vying to get the resturants you think you'll want on at the days and times you think you'll be hungry.

As I had previously mentioned, it is much easier to book ADR with the new system. We don't look for reservations until the night before or the day of. People are welcome to book 30 days ahead if they want, but they probably end up canceling anyway.

 

[holden]

I hate having to pay for what used to be free, but my time is too valuable to me to spend more time than I have to waiting in line. It's all relative.

While I don't see my self buying a Premier Pass, I won't totally rule it out in the future. For now the Multi Pass seems to work for me and my family.

Paying more for shorter lines is a choice. This is true for any vacation. You can choose to book an inside cabin on a cruise, or you can book the largest suite on the ship and pay extra for specialty dining, shore excursions, etc. You can choose to stay at a hotel in the heart of Paris or stay outside of the city for less money. You can choose a premier campground site or the least expensive site.

Being mad and feeling like people are cutting in line is valid. Feelings are ok. It's up to the individual how to handle those feelings.

 

[lowlight]

People are welcome to book 30 days ahead if they want, but they probably end up canceling anyway.

That’s part of what made me ask “what would Disney look like without ADR’s, etc?”. I think a lot of restaurant availability is wasted on people who hoard ADR’s and cancel them 2 hours before.

 

[DeeBee3]

We just don't buy LL or use the new service. Just wait on line. If the line is too long for me, I skip it and try later. I don't want to pay extra so I don't. I do realize that increases my time in line and, of course, I don't like seeing all the LL people going ahead when we get to that point in the line. However, I know people did pay extra and I made my own decision.

I have been multiple times so I also have a different perspective, but I assume a lot on this thread have also been a time or 2.

I did purchase ILLs during a Christmas trip. That was only because it was Christmas. Otherwise, I would have not paid.

 

[Brian Noble]

do realize that increases my time in line

There's another way to look at this: It increases the set of attractions I visit in a trip.

Back in The Good Old Days of paper fastpasses and unlimited late returns, I would routinely leave the park each night with a pocket full of unused FPs for top-tier attractions. Because it was possible to ride them all several times with low waits, it was always hard to take time away to see the "lesser" attractions. When the various changes rolled out---return times being enforced, then advance booking, etc.---that because harder and harder to do. And we noticed that we started going to the "other" attractions more often.

And guess what? Those were lots of fun too.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

This is true for any vacation. You can choose to book an inside cabin on a cruise, or you can book the largest suite on the ship and pay extra for specialty dining, shore excursions, etc. You can choose to stay at a hotel in the heart of Paris or stay outside of the city for less money. You can choose a premier campground site or the least expensive site.

Yes and of course no. People also choose destinations that suit them especially if they've figured out what becomes more important to them. That's why you have people saying they really aren't as interested in going to Disney at all or as much in favor of elsewhere, that is a choice.

To put an example out there the cruise line we've found we like doesn't have inside cabins, the ship we are booked on and the sister ship we did in 2023 is 100% all verandah, there is no charge for their specialty dining restaurant (just a restriction of 1 reservation per every 7 days it's also the only place to eat that requires a reservation though walk ups can happen) and it's been my experience that the cost is usually less than what you'd spend on DCL, the upcoming cruise priced out it was $6K less than a comparable DCL route for 2 people and we're getting more included in the price (including all tips, all alcohol, all food) but it is a different environment. BUT to your point there are people who then book a cruise line that does include 1 shore excursion however those may have an additional charge for a specialty restaurant so they are choosing what matters more to them. I've found the excursions can be a bit pricey for the cruise line we are doing but very little repeat passengers want it to be included in the price as many of them are seasoned enough that they choose 3rd party or they go off on their own. I myself don't want excursions to be included.

As far as your choosing to stay at a hotel in the heart of Paris there's paying with points or using your hotel loyalty if it's a branded hotel. It's not always going to be more expensive to someone to stay right in the middle of everything as a de facto thing. There's also different dates and seasons affecting this. But yes it's a common example to use like Times Square vs not.

As far as campground while I'm not fully in the know on that one chances are there's only a small choice being made there because it would depend on what you're camping with. But if you're talking about all things considered and it's just basically between selecting like a Preferred room or Standard like how Disney can have set up totally get you there although sales and discounts may make that cheaper. It was cheaper for us to stay in a Preferred room at All-Star Sports than a Standard room we originally had booked due to the room discount option (that was back in 2017 who knows how Disney formulates now) so we upgraded but paid less. To add to that hotel rooms we see where a better room or a bigger bed (like a kind vs a queen) it can be less to book that than a "lesser" room.

This is still playing into your discussion about choice but just to say that people don't always have to resign themselves to choosing lesser, they can find something that suits them more or there are other ways that people can spend less and get more or get what they want. The way that Disney has sorts opted to run their theme parks for years now is that there is an ever growing pressure to be part of the problem in order to even get a fairly basic trip in but it's also why you can see Disney shifting to those who are more likely to pay for a trip they don't likely have much plans of going back to.

 

[Minnie1222]

Just to show the effectiveness of the new ADR system, I went on the app this morning to pull a few samples.

If I were at Disney today, I could have visited several of the most popular restaurants.



There's an ongoing rumor that the wide availability is due to fewer TS guests. This is not true since the amount of diners appear to be similar to previous years. I think the app/programmers have finally caught up with guest behavior.