Why we think Lightning Lane is wrong

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Not to mention that you can pay to skip the security line with TSA Precheck and the customs line with Global Entry.

That is true but then you have CLEAR which has higher priority than Pre-Check.

And these days with how many people have precheck now it's usually not a big time saver on enough instances. Many travelers use the not having to take liquids out, shoes off, jackets off, belts off, etc as the primary reason. And then there's the machines that are becoming more used where regular lanes aren't having to remove as much from their bags so eventually pre-check is going to be more devalued. Admittedly at our airport the line is either the same or less on regular security lanes since they went to a single security check point but I still always go through pre-check because I don't have to do anything but breeze on through.

Global Entry I will say has been a bigger time saver and the point being made of paying for a service for sure stands there

 

[Smugpugmug]

Actually when you go to the TSA-precheck office to first get approved, those having an appointment get to go first while those who are just walks-ins have to wait in line. I don't have an issue with that or at the DMV since everyone can make an appointment ahead of time.

The airport I went to to do my appointment didn't accept walk ups at all and appointments were VERY difficult to get. I ended up having to get a appointment tracker for about $8 because I could not get one otherwise.

We live in a world where you need a third party service to book an appointment to skip the customs line LOL

It's similar to those websites where you can pay to get text notifications about Disney dining cancellations.

 

[Tatebeck]

I think the feeling is understandable, the one where you see people who paid an additional fee were able to do something you were not. It has unfortunately bled into many different industries and usages much like how the tipping has. I think we could give a lot of examples out there but I also understand the feeling behind what the OP is frustrated at. It's kinda a throw up your hand thing though you either do it and seemingly benefit from doing so or you don't.

We did our 2022 trip without Genie+ but we've been enough that while incredibly frustrating it was not a trip where we were going there for the first time and were not planning on going back. On the other hand we did not limit ourselves with their paid system in Tokyo Disneyland because it's location in Japan meant we did not know when we would be able to make it back.

I think going forward for their new rides (since they know they need both a LL and a regular line unlike some of the older rides) it would help quite a bit if they just make completely separated lines that cannot even see each other at all until the merge point. Make them both themed and entertaining, and the anger/envy/etc between the guests will still be reduced even though they can still offer the LLs

 

[gottalovepluto]

I've written about this before, but Disney is in the business of selling happiness.

It’s amazing how many people forget this is a publicly traded company ultimately responsible to its shareholder base.

 

[Smugpugmug]

That is true but then you have CLEAR which has higher priority than Pre-Check.

And these days with how many people have precheck now it's usually not a big time saver on enough instances. Many travelers use the not having to take liquids out, shoes off, jackets off, belts off, etc as the primary reason. And then there's the machines that are becoming more used where regular lanes aren't having to remove as much from their bags so eventually pre-check is going to be more devalued. Admittedly at our airport the line is either the same or less on regular security lanes since they went to a single security check point but I still always go through pre-check because I don't have to do anything but breeze on through.

Global Entry I will say has been a bigger time saver and the point being made of paying for a service for sure stands there

Then it's no surprise that Global Entry raised its price a few months ago. Just how I expect LLMP and/or the Premier Pass to go up in the next couple of months.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

I think going forward for their new rides (since they know they need both a LL and a regular line unlike some of the older rides) it would help quite a bit if they just make completely separated lines that cannot even see each other at all until the merge point. Make them both themed and entertaining, and the anger/envy/etc between the guests will still be reduced even though they can still offer the LLs

Disney has tried to hide lines and give separations, I know a FOP that is one before you get fully inside the building but you're in the cave system and you can still see the outside, but you know when you're stopped for a long time you can peek over the tall barrier and see it's because it's the merge point otherwise you don't have any idea why you're just stopped there. Over at Universal you have EP lines that are right up along the regular lines but you don't really have as many merge points, many have their own dedicated loading area as well.

There's a portion for example on MIB right that EP users go to a separate area to scan again their EP pass but by in far they are right up along it. Because there's not so much stoppage for merging the Standby users, Single Riders and EP users are kept in their own line for pretty much the whole way. Now Seuss High in the Sky is separated at the actual loading where you're on opposite stairs but the lines are up against each other for a decent portion of it.

That's not to say there isn't angst at Universal with EP users but it seems to be less vocal, less turmoil even though the lines are right there. It's kinda like being in traffic and you're more frustrated because you can't see what's going on up ahead, you want to know why cars are backed up but there's a SUV or a semi in your way and if only you could see you would at least know what's going on. When you're in that Standby line at Disney and you're trying to figure out why you haven't moved in 10 mins it can make you even more upset.

Ultimately, at least IMO, yes people are paying for a service and someone who is not paying for it can easily get annoyed at that mere fact but if you're waiting a measurable amount of time more, some of our waits in 2022 were doubled what the initial standby wait was when we entered the line just because a slew of LL users came through, and then you're having to wait even longer than anticipated it all builds up. So just adjusting how these lines see each other or their physical proximity to each other doesn't work to solve when your wait becomes longer and longer because Disney is waving on LL users in such high amounts. But there's not as much incentive for Disney to do this especially now that they have a watered down EP but priced higher on average LLPP.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Then it's no surprise that Global Entry raised its price a few months ago. Just how I expect LLMP and/or the Premier Pass to go up in the next couple of months.

TBH Global Entry is a steal in comparison to just buying Pre-Check, that's because it comes with Pre-Check with it. But if someone isn't going to go international even that smaller pricing difference is going to be something to them.

In our particular case my husband's company paid for his Global Entry and a CC paid for mine.

And for how Disney prices things it never is going to stay as "low" (I say that relatively speaking) as people think. Disney has a bad habit of pricing things too low to begin with and they find themselves raising it continuously over time.

 

[Tatebeck]

Disney has tried to hide lines and give separations, I know a FOP that is one before you get fully inside the building but you're in the cave system and you can still see the outside, but you know when you're stopped for a long time you can peek over the tall barrier and see it's because it's the merge point otherwise you don't have any idea why you're just stopped there. Over at Universal you have EP lines that are right up along the regular lines but you don't really have as many merge points, many have their own dedicated loading area as well.

There's a portion for example on MIB right that EP users go to a separate area to scan again their EP pass but by in far they are right up along it. Because there's not so much stoppage for merging the Standby users, Single Riders and EP users are kept in their own line for pretty much the whole way. Now Seuss High in the Sky is separated at the actual loading where you're on opposite stairs but the lines are up against each other for a decent portion of it.

That's not to say there isn't angst at Universal with EP users but it seems to be less vocal, less turmoil even though the lines are right there. It's kinda like being in traffic and you're more frustrated because you can't see what's going on up ahead, you want to know why cars are backed up but there's a SUV or a semi in your way and if only you could see you would at least know what's going on. When you're in that Standby line at Disney and you're trying to figure out why you haven't moved in 10 mins it can make you even more upset.

Ultimately, at least IMO, yes people are paying for a service and someone who is not paying for it can easily get annoyed at that mere fact but if you're waiting a measurable amount of time more, some of our waits in 2022 were doubled what the initial standby wait was when we entered the line just because a slew of LL users came through, and then you're having to wait even longer than anticipated it all builds up. So just adjusting how these lines see each other or their physical proximity to each other doesn't work to solve when your wait becomes longer and longer because Disney is waving on LL users in such high amounts. But there's not as much incentive for Disney to do this especially now that they have a watered down EP but priced higher on average LLPP.

Yeah at FOP and Guardians you can still see heads bobbing in the LL hallway, but they do a pretty good job at separating them. I even still get annoyed by the bobbing heads when I am in a stagnant regular line but they are still moving though .

I would aim for even better separation with zero visual on the LL until you are past the merge point, and having a sharp angle where they merge so you can't see any of the LL unless you look completely backwards after the merge, and even then you would see very little.

 

[Minnie1222]

It's a devaluation of your tickets. We love Disney and they claim it is the "Happiest Place On Earth", but really is waiting in long lines all day while others cut in front truly the happiest place on earth?

 At least you still have the opportunity to wait in line for an attraction. When I was a kid, we had to pay for park entry and tiered A, B, C, D, E tickets. I don't know exactly how it worked, but I assume you couldn't enter an attraction without the specified ticket. Even if they had a standby line back then (and I don't think they did), someone with a tiered ticket would always get to go first.

 

[cobright]

You're thinking about this backwards...

When you buy a Disney ticket(s), it has a perceived value. For most people, most of value is derived from the amount of rides you can enjoy per day.

Now, imagine that your enjoyment of the parks has nothing to do with how many rides you go on. Wouldn't it be great if there were a way that these people paid less to get in? How can we charge people who don't really ride many rides less than people who really want to ride all the newest and greatest rides?

Without a way to market park at different price points to different customer segments, someone who has no plan to ride many rides is going to be paying for a whole park and not getting that value.

When you go to a grocery store, you might choose to pay more by going to a store that actually staffs their checkout lanes. Or, you might choose less convenience in exchange for your $$ buying more groceries. Someone goes to the movies and they only care about seeing the show will pay less for that evening out than someone who sees the popcorn and candy as an integral part of the experience. 10 people on one airplane all likely paid different amounts for their seats. If getting from one city to the next is how they rate value, they will likely pay less than someone who absolutely must have an aisle seat.

 

[GBBTomorrow]

"To all who come to this happy place, welcome."

But those of you who come with more money to burn, you're more welcome.

Sure, it may sound Pollyanna of me, and I know that my cause is lost, but the visible segmentation of the haves and have-nots in the parks is getting me down. I always think of Disney as different, magical, for everyone. I think that once you enter the gates, despite where you slept last night or where you're having dinner, we should all get the same basic experience from rides and attractions, and the same opportunity to watch some fireworks from a decent spot or to hug Mickey Mouse.

Sure, there have always been VIPs, but they have never been so visible and in such huge numbers as now.

I'm sad that Disney gave up.

Go ahead and lecture me about how Disney is a business. Sure. You're right. But what made Disney a SUCCESSFUL global business wasn't dividing up the social classes. It was because they provided something unique and special, a place for everyone that really did feel like magic. Walt wanted something where everyone could have fun together. Yes, he was talking about parents and children, but I think that idea could be extended to include those with more and those with less having the same opportunity to have maximum fun when they come to the parks.

 

[HopperFan]

No one wants to pay extra for something that was free before but that is our new reality. Look at all the add on fees for a plane flight. If you don't want to pay you'll still get where you want to go but if you want the extras you pay more for it. It happens in many many businesses not sure why Disney is held to a different standard.

The great thing is that other than the price of Disney park tickets ~ pretty much everything else is negotiable and under the control of the guest. Lodging, Eating, LL, Souvenirs, Snacks, Transportation ... you pick what is important and budget accordingly.

We have bought ILL and MPLL ... we just spend less elsewhere. Eliminating a TS meal each day can mostly cover LL. We pick what is more important but stay in budget. Not what Disney is hoping for but that is what works for us.

I've said it over and over, vacations are priceless and Disney is not inexpensive. If you are not enjoying yourself, getting value for your money and having joy ~ time to find a new place that gives you joy.

I guess you don't go to AMC for movies - or at least you don't get snacks. They have a line at the concession stand for Premier and A*List members that gets called before people in the regular line. (And for buying tickets they don't really even have a window...it's all machines with like 1 person who can run a register for people still using cash.)

Yup. I am A-List. I pay extra each month. I get to see 3 movies a week when what I pay is less than the cost of 2 movies. Not only do I cut the line to scan in my tickets, I cut the line to get concessions (often a long line) and my concessions are discounted. AND when I buy my tickets I pay zero service charges plus I get rewards money based on what I spend.

 

[Minnie1222]

The class distinction was worse in the old time. My relatives mentioned that many attractions back then required an entry fee. So in theory, the "rich" kids could go on the same ride a hundred times a day while the "poor" kids watched from the side.

If anything, it is more fair today. Even when you're willing to pay, LLMP, LLSP, or LLPP could only give ONE time per ride.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

Yup. I am A-List. I pay extra each month. I get to see 3 movies a week when what I pay is less than the cost of 2 movies. Not only do I cut the line to scan in my tickets, I cut the line to get concessions (often a long line) and my concessions are discounted. AND when I buy my tickets I pay zero service charges plus I get rewards money based on what I spend.

FWIW AMC had a free program called MovieWatcher. You earned rewards and whatnot under that. When they rolled to a paid program they gave those of us with MovieWatcher's accounts were given a free year of AMC Stubs and you were automatically rolled into the Premiere tier (that's what we've kept since that roll over). Some of the rewards were better on the MovieWatcher program but the Stubs program overall you earned faster however you now had to buy a membership. They did add Insider which is free to join though.

They don't use the ticketing areas in our AMC theaters anymore all tickets are purchased either by a kiosk that isn't manned for a few locations or inside at the customer service desk at the location we go to the most (considered a flagship AMC location) by which there is no separate lane. When they used to use the ticketing areas yes they did have the priority lanes but really that wasn't of much use for long because they went to online ticketing where you just went to a kiosk located away from the main ticketing area and picked up your physical tickets yourself. Nowadays everything is on the app and those machines are used isn't more. Scanning tickets a separate line isn't used either. Concessions is hit or miss I mean it's never busy to really account to have the Priority lane set up for concessions sadly since the pandemic but it usually didn't save us much time to use them although sure it was nice to have them. If by discounted concessions you mean you get a large drink and a popcorn at the price of a regular I suppose that's discounted.

For years now we only go on Tuesdays, it used to be $5plus tax per ticket but then they ended that promotion. I think it's $6 something. That feature is also available with the free membership. Pre-pandemic the processing fee waiving every time with of Premiere and above was a key feature but since almost no one goes to movies anymore around here (sad) at least at AMC it's hardly an issue to buy your ticket at the theater. We just purchase it on the app because it makes it easy to activate and use our rewards but if I suddenly had to pay processing fees we would just purchase at the theater. I know Premiere is raising to $17.99 per month soon, not sure if A-list is.

Regardless yes it's an example of when those who pay X get Y.

 

[MillauFr]

Our own government transportation agency does Lightening Lane. If you want to pay with your time and extra gas you get the slow lane. If you want to pay $20 extra you get to save a few minutes by driving in the express toll lanes on the freeway.

 

[Mackenzie Click-Mickelson]

wasn't dividing up the social classes. It was because they provided something unique and special, a place for everyone

While I don't disagree on the overall sentiment of your comment for the above if you're talking about parks the mere existence of them was a division of social classes (and that's not even going back to Disneyland which was literally racially divided and socially divided not by policy of Disney but because of its costs and lack of ability to get there). I'm not sure if people are thinking about it from their own lenses here but if you were able to go to Disney as a kid you were fairly fortunate, if you were able to continue going as an adult you're also fairly fortunate. It was out of reach for a good amount of people by the virtue of the costs, even decades ago.

But I don't disagree about the in your face part. It was overall more affordable in the past but it was still always an expensive place to go to. In recent years you're just seeing the Haves start to fall to the Haves Not...I don't mean that literally just that people who were comfortably able to go to Disney and frequently enough there's a sect of them more and more uncomfortable with the costs associated or the track Disney is taking where there's an ever growing cost to things. Meanwhile there's a sect of people who can't part with their money fast enough (and evident by the fact that a nearly $500 per person pass for MK sold out day after day)

 

[HopperFan]

The class distinction was worse in the old time. My relatives mentioned that many attractions back then required an entry fee. So in theory, the "rich" kids could go on the same ride a hundred times a day while the "poor" kids watched from the side.

If anything, it is more fair today. Even when you're willing to pay, LLMP, LLSP, or LLPP could only give ONE time per ride.

YUP still have some of those tickets. That is where the A, B, C, D, E tickets came from. When you hear a ride called an "E Ticket" ride it is because they are the best rides. The A ticket would be like the Carousel. The more money you had the more better tickets you could buy.

 

[lowlight]

Disney creates the problem and sells the solution. Those who have the money to bypass the inconvenience are obviously ok with it, the rest of us have no choice.

I often wonder what a Disney without any ADR’s, DAS, lightning lanes, etc. would look like in terms of availability for all. Would standby lines be more manageable for most? Would standing in line for a table at a sit down when you’re actually hungry instead of when you planned it 60 days in advance be doable? Or would it be mass chaos instead of targeted chaos? We’ll never know because Disney needs to either charge more every year or lower what they give us for the dollar we spend, or both, to show increased revenue to their shareholders.

 

[lowlight]

Sure, there have always been VIPs, but they have never been so visible and in such huge numbers as now.

The upper middle class and above are doing tremendously well right now financially. Turns out the economic conditions that make it suck to be middle class right now are the exact conditions it takes to make the rich much richer. Try to have a conversation about money with someone in that demographic and it’s like talking to an alien on a different planet when it comes to perspective.

 

[Dug720]

Yup. I am A-List. I pay extra each month. I get to see 3 movies a week when what I pay is less than the cost of 2 movies. Not only do I cut the line to scan in my tickets, I cut the line to get concessions (often a long line) and my concessions are discounted. AND when I buy my tickets I pay zero service charges plus I get rewards money based on what I spend.

Bingo! Same here. Heck, if I see ONE movie in IMAX or Dolby I've paid for my membership. During the summer especially I've used all 3 movies each week.