Why, oh Why Dont they Listen???

[Mirax]

My sister did this to me. She wanted to go spring break 2015 to Universal with all 5 of her kids. She told me she was just going to go to AAA. No! No! No! I knew I could find her much better deals. I have never been to Universal so I did my research, found a town house the would sleep 7, and had her buy tickets at Undercover Tourists.(park to park buy 2 get 3 days). I asked her at least once a month from August to February if she was planning a day in Magic Kingdom. I got a big fat No. Of course the day after prices went up she wanted MK tickets and Chef Mickey. I told her Chef Mickey was going to be difficult. Gave her the reservation number, she however did not call. The week before she was leaving she still wanted Chef Mickey. So I checked every day for a week. I did find her a reservation, While she was in Orlando. I found 2, 4 table reservations at the same time. She then called the reservation line and asked if the tables could be together. Of Course they can, that way Disney can charge a gratuity. She waited till the week before she left for Orlando to get fast pass +, pickings were slim. She had a great time, because she listened to me, however it would have been a lot easier if she had the whole MK thing figured out before the 180 day window.

 

[drp4video]

10 years ago when my daughter was a senior in high school, my daughter's choir went to WDW for Magical Music Days. I was a booster parent for the music department, which meant basically I helped out as a volunteer and helped plan things. As my daughter was in choir all through high school and she was now a senior, the choir teacher knew that my daughter and I went to Disney about 3 or more times a year. I told her I pretty much knew everything there was about Disney as I had been at that point about 20+ times, and I offered to help her with the planning and negotiation she would do with the travel agent. They needed an agent as there were about 40 kids. She never sought my advice. They would be gone five days (two of which were travel days). When I went to the next booster meeting she handed out the plans. They were not staying on property, 4 kids to a room, they had 4 day pass with a water park for day 5 (they would actually be at disney for 3 days as they went by bus, which was a 24 hour ride each way..using up two days), and they had vouchers for a few counter service meals.

She told us as booster parents we could go as chaperones but we had to turn in our forms within a week and it would be an extra $100 more each for us, and I had to share a room with another parent. I never turned mine in. The next time she saw me she said she was shocked I had not turned in my form and that I was not going. Oh, I told her, I was going. I priced out the trip and I was flying, staying on property and doing it cheaper than the rate she got from the travel agent, and I added a rental car and it was still cheaper. I even factored in the cost of a 4 day ticket plus water park(I didn't need one as I had an AP but to be fair) , wanted to see if I could do it cheaper. Yup. I would have saved each child about $75, they could have flown and used their 4 day pass plus water park. Her way, they used 3 days of the pass...lost the rest.

The parents who went as chaperones on the bus told me when they got there that it was the ride from hell and how smart I was.

They left the day before me, but I got there before them, they left WDW the day before me, and I got home before them, and had 5 days in the parks.

Some people don't want to listen.

Note: I called the travel agent because my daughter also had an AP and didn't need the 4 day pass plus a water park day for the three day visit and could I get a reduction on her rate. Got it. They reduced the ticket price from her cost.

 

[maxiesmom]

"Sorry Infinity".

This is fun. Have you actually done the math on the number of rides at the MK?

In a typical day they have a total of 350,000 ridings of all their attractions if every attraction fills every seat and runs all day long. Now since many attractions go way less than full (like Philharmagic and MILF) the actual used capacity is around 300,000 (if the rides run all day long w/o going down). There are 50,000 guests at the MK. So 300,000/50,000 is 6. Which means the average # of rides ridden, is 6 -- on days when every ride functions all day long. Or around 5 on more realistic days (rain).

Therefore, it is NOT POSSIBLE that everyone is trying to ride more than 6. For if they were, it would not be possible for me to ride 15. If everyone set out to ride 6, you and I would only be able to ride 6. But WE DONT. I'll ride 15 in a day with minimal effort, and you probly do too.

Every day that I, or a Dis'er goes... and rides 15, THREE other guests must go and ride only 3. (15+3+3+3)/4 = average 6.

People are way less into the rides than you think. That is why you are able to ride 12, 15, or however many you ride. It is a common false-consensus effect... to associate with people on the Dis, hear about how much we all get on, and then assume the general populace thinks like us. This is clearly evidenced by how most guests outside of the Dis really couldn't care less about planning, and they don't make up a spreadsheet or anything like that. I could give them advice and say... you know you could make a spreadsheet... but... they're not gonna make a spreadsheet. They're just not going to.

Sorry Prince.

Your numbers still don't show how many guests choose to ride less than 6 rides and how many ride less than 6 because of lack of planning.

 

[mousefan73]

I would tell your friend, if she listens to try those ADRS at the 45 day mark for a few days as some cancel packages then.. or when there to check the day before.. I myself cancelled Ohana and CMs ( had double ADRS as we weren't sure which day we would go). The system sucks... I am forced ( dont shoot me) to make multiple ADRSs as no way in heck can I decide nor know, when, where or what I want to eat 180 plus days out..I refuse to have my trip planned by the hour before we go... so I do this. as long as you cancel 24 hrs before you are ok.

 

[Angel Ariel]

So, why, oh why dont they listen?

In short? They probably think you plan so far in advance because you want to, not because there may legitimately be things they can't do if they wait. Most people, IME (IOW, people I know), don't plan vacations so far in advance

 

[maxiesmom]

I would tell your friend, if she listens to try those ADRS at the 45 day mark for a few days as some cancel packages then.. or when there to check the day before.. I myself cancelled Ohana and CMs ( had double ADRS as we weren't sure which day we would go). The system sucks... I am forced ( dont shoot me) to make multiple ADRSs as no way in heck can I decide nor know, when, where or what I want to eat 180 plus days out..I refuse to have my trip planned by the hour before we go... so I do this. as long as you cancel 24 hrs before you are ok.

And we wonder why there is a thread complaining about the lack of ADRs. You are not forced to double book, you choose to. If you are going to do something like that, at least own up to it.

 

[mousefan73]

And we wonder why there is a thread complaining about the lack of ADRs. You are not forced to double book, you choose to. If you are going to do something like that, at least own up to it.

Yes I own up to it and yes I feel I am forced... by Disney for coming up with the ridiculous time rule of 180 plus days... We wouldn't have this issue if they came up with a policy that makes sense ( at 45 days when payed in full for on-site and 30 for rest for example). I dont go crazy with double bookings.. just the for sure things. We don't do parkhoppers so we have to do this as i cannot say ( weather/ hours released later) which park I visit. I refuse to give Disney more money for this flexability via a PH to be able to dine anywhere.

Also I was especially glad I did this this year and we changed our park days around and MK hours were extended/updated well beyond the 180 day mark.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Not sure I agree with that. My trip to Italy involved much more planning than is required for Disney.

The person said international travel *can* involve less planning than a Disney vacation..not that it always does.

I spent a week overseas a few years back. the only thing planned in advance was hotel and the flight. Where we were going, it wasn't necessary to book in advance, so we didn't (and yes, that includes major tourist destinations). not all places in Europe are like that, some require Disney like planning, but some definitely don't, especially depending on when you travel.

 

[kathy884]

I feel your pain OP.

Unless it's my parents or my brother (we plan trips together all the time) and love deals and sharing information, all I do is mention the book the Unofficial Guide to Walt Disney World and their website and touring plans, and I only do this if they are traveling at a busy time. I think the advise of the book is pretty solid and better than what I could offer to steer a first time visitor. I also think the book is a fun read. Sometimes, I will mention Easywdw.com for a crowd calendar too. Other than that I stay out of it. // If it's a really close friend and a reader I go one extra step, I buy them the Unofficial Guide book if their primary focus is going to be Disney. // I think people have their own preferences and biases for fun frivolous travel and except for the close relatives mentioned above, I don't want to get involved. The last thing I want to do is spend a bunch of time and effort giving advice/suggestions that in all likelihood will be ignored.

It's only on a forum like this for people who want to know, want to research, and are open to diverse opinions that for me it's fun to share advice and strategies that have worked well for us.

 

[kiford]

With any location, Disney or Paris, the amount of planning you are willing to do increases the amount you will see/do/experience while there. You can do any of them on the fly, but need to be willing to accept that you will do less. Neither is right or wrong.

I think that this is quite accurate - it all depends on what you want to see and do and how important it is to you. When we were on our 2010 DCL cruise to the Med, we booked a tour to see the statue of David in Florence. When we were returning to the ship that evening, I heard someone talking to another guest. She was complaining about how she'd got the first tender off the ship in the morning, got the first train to Florence, went right over to the Accademia Gallery and got in line for tickets. She was told that the first available ticket was for 6 pm (she didn't know that you had an assigned time - she thought it was just a general entrance ticket) and the last tender left at 7 pm. So there was no way that she could see it. She then just kind of wandered around for a while and didn't really know what she saw. Anywhere that there are a lot of tourists or sights to see, you really need to do some basic investigation if you want to experience or see them; you don't need to be an uber-planner to do this and it's all pretty much available on the internet.

Even if we "wing" a trip where I haven't booked things in advance, I still do a bit of research beforehand and know what's available, what I can and can't do if I don't book in advance and have Plan B and Plan C in mind if it doesn't work. I'll only do that if I'm prepared to not be able to do or see something. If I really want to do something, see something or eat somewhere, it gets planned and/or booked in advance.

I've been fortunate (for my frustration levels) that most of my coworkers, friends, or DH's coworkers who've asked for advice about WDW have actually taken it. I usually give them basic advice geared to their particular situation or personality and then give them resources to search out more information for themselves. I'll tell them what worked for us and why and then let them determine if that's relevant to their own situation. I figure that they'll do the amount of research that they want or are prepared to do and if they ask for more information I'll give it. Some have done much more research and some haven't but all of them seemed to have had a good time and I often get thanked for my advice.

One of the most important (IMHO) bits of advice I give to people is to not try to do everything on a single trip even if you don't think you'll ever be back again. You'll be exhausted and won't enjoy yourself. Pick the things you most want to do, book those, and don't sweat the rest. If you come back again, you can extend what you did from the last time or do different things; if you don't come back again, you'll still feel like you had a great time and will have fond memories. Some of those people have now gone back multiple times because they had such a great time. Some have come back to me and asked for more advice or information to plan a second trip so that they can do new and different things from the last time.

 

[maxiesmom]

Yes I own up to it and yes I feel I am forced... by Disney for coming up with the ridiculous time rule of 180 plus days... We wouldn't have this issue if they came up with a policy that makes sense ( at 45 days when payed in full for on-site and 30 for rest for example). I dont go crazy with double bookings.. just the for sure things. We don't do parkhoppers so we have to do this as i cannot say ( weather/ hours released later) which park I visit. I refuse to give Disney more money for this flexability via a PH to be able to dine anywhere.

Also I was especially glad I did this this year and we changed our park days around and MK hours were extended/updated well beyond the 180 day mark.

Then the thing to do is make your ADRs when you know what park you will visit on what day. Not grab a bunch and sit on them. It is posts like this that make me wish Disney would go to a pay in full deposit, or even $50 and ADR.

 

[Angel Ariel]

People DO get BOG all the time. I've gotten it for 2 trips within a month of the trip. One of which was during free dining. You just either need to be flexible or check often. I'm not sure why everyone thinks these reservations are IMPOSSIBLE?! The last time we ate at BOG, we made friends in line and they had made their reservation the night before for a 6:40 reservation....

Perhaps because your experience was not their experience. If any friends of mine came to me a month or two out from their trip and told me they wanted to eat at BOG but hadn't reserved them yet, I'd absolutely suggest they keep checking (esp. around the 45 day mark if they aren't inside that already), but I would counsel them that *in my experience* it was very difficult to find reservations for BOG and that while I hoped they were able to find them, to be prepared for the possibility that they won't. I would also probably send them a link to the ADR Cancellation threads here, as that's the only place I've managed to get the very popular hard to get ADRs so close to a trip date.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Think about why Disney World is so effective at grabbing the typical midlife family with young kids to come spend $5000 at WDW but the same family won't go spend $300 to go to Six Flags.

Why is Disney better at grabbing young families? Because they have more rides the entire family can ride. At least that's why they grab us. Sure, DH and I could take off for the nearest 6 flags with DD. There's a grand total of about 6 rides that she can go on. Total. Yes, I will absolutely spend the money to take her to WDW or DLR where there's less than 10 rides *total* that she can't ride. And a lot more than 6 that she can ride. That's a much better experience for *all* of us than 6 Flags at the moment. Height requirements make a big difference for families with young kids.

 

[ArwenMarie]

Then the thing to do is make your ADRs when you know what park you will visit on what day. Not grab a bunch and sit on them. It is posts like this that make me wish Disney would go to a pay in full deposit, or even $50 and ADR.

As long as a person is playing by Disney's rules, I don't see the problem. I get your opinion though that you would prefer that Disney make it harder to double book.

 

[maxiesmom]

As long as a person is playing by Disney's rules, I don't see the problem. I get your opinion though that you would prefer that Disney make it harder to double book.

I have a problem with people booking ADRs knowing they won't use a good chunk of them. It may be by the rules, but it isn't fair to other guests. And a good part of the reason there are so many posts from people upset that they can't get ADRs they truly want. And you can bet if Disney starts to see a trend in people dumping ADRs they will do something about it. Which will make things more difficult on everyone, not just those working the system.

Rant over.

 

[Turn the Page]

[QUOTE="MrInfinity, post: 54404060, member: 441626"

Think about why Disney World is so effective at grabbing the typical midlife family with young kids to come spend $5000 at WDW but the same family won't go spend $300 to go to Six Flags. At Six Flags they could ride more rides for less money. But What Disney offers is the complete vacation package. Some rides, some relaxation, some swimming, some dining, etc. Most guests are simply not out to maximize rides like you're saying.

[/QUOTE]

We live about 6 hours away from Cedar Point and the reason we never go is because I don't do big roller coasters. I like EE but that's about as wild as I go. Like a PP with a small child who could only go on 6 rides at Six Flags while I can go on them all I refuse to go on the vast majority. I just wouldn't enjoy it at all.

In fact, this trip we are going to Universal for a day. While I do desperately want to see WWoHP I never would have purchased the passes just for that because I'm too cheap and I know I won't go on many of the coasters there though I have been doing more research on it and some of the other rides are really interesting me. Anyway, the only reason we are going is because DFi wanted to go. We will see how we all do with the bigger rides.

 

[MrInfinity]

Your numbers still don't show how many guests choose to ride less than 6 rides and how many ride less than 6 because of lack of planning.

It shows that many people go to WDW, have wonderful trips, and ride less than 6. Just shouldn't assume that because you want to ride tons that everyone is like you. BTW one could easily ride 12-15 rides in a day with absolutely no planning. It's not hard. You just show up and you can do that. I like to do that in half a day, which does take planning.

Why is Disney better at grabbing young families? Because they have more rides the entire family can ride. At least that's why they grab us. Sure, DH and I could take off for the nearest 6 flags with DD. There's a grand total of about 6 rides that she can go on. Total. Yes, I will absolutely spend the money to take her to WDW or DLR where there's less than 10 rides *total* that she can't ride. And a lot more than 6 that she can ride. That's a much better experience for *all* of us than 6 Flags at the moment. Height requirements make a big difference for families with young kids.

This may be the reason you go, and can be a factor in why other families go too, but it is not the only reason. Six Flags offers a rather unthemed, uninteresting, ride-centric experience. Disney World offers a family vacation. The theming, the food, and some nostalgic rides, characters, and experiences that appeal to families. Disney even has fewer rides per park than an equivalent 6 Flags, so it's to many families more than just the rides. Can you not fathom that altho rides may be super important to you, they're not necessarily to everyone?

In fact, this trip we are going to Universal for a day. While I do desperately want to see WWoHP I never would have purchased the passes just for that because I'm too cheap and I know I won't go on many of the coasters there though I have been doing more research on it and some of the other rides are really interesting me. Anyway, the only reason we are going is because DFi wanted to go. We will see how we all do with the bigger rides.

I think you'll have fun. there is the Minions and lots of other stuff there. We hope to try out Universal on one of our upcoming trips, just haven't got to yet. Have fun!

 

[MinnieSweetheart]

Perhaps because your experience was not their experience. If any friends of mine came to me a month or two out from their trip and told me they wanted to eat at BOG but hadn't reserved them yet, I'd absolutely suggest they keep checking (esp. around the 45 day mark if they aren't inside that already), but I would counsel them that *in my experience* it was very difficult to find reservations for BOG and that while I hoped they were able to find them, to be prepared for the possibility that they won't. I would also probably send them a link to the ADR Cancellation threads here, as that's the only place I've managed to get the very popular hard to get ADRs so close to a trip date.

My experience wasn't their experience, because the only time it would be impossible to get reservations to BOG is if they stopped making reservations or were closed while you were there. I'm not being rude to offer a solution to find reservations; the same course of action you would make. You said you would prepare them for the possibility of not getting what they want, not that you would counsel them it was IMPOSSIBLE.

So, for the record, I'm not sure what makes people think it's IMPOSSIBLE to get a reservation at BOG.

 

[Dentam]

I would tell your friend, if she listens to try those ADRS at the 45 day mark for a few days as some cancel packages then.. or when there to check the day before.. I myself cancelled Ohana and CMs ( had double ADRS as we weren't sure which day we would go). The system sucks... I am forced ( dont shoot me) to make multiple ADRSs as no way in heck can I decide nor know, when, where or what I want to eat 180 plus days out..I refuse to have my trip planned by the hour before we go... so I do this. as long as you cancel 24 hrs before you are ok.

You can actually cancel in person the day of your reservation and not pay the penalty. We did this on our trip that we just got back from... we were way too full from our dinner at 'Ohana to eat breakfast at CP the next morning. They told us that as long as we showed up it was fine. The $10/person fee is only for groups that are no shows.

 

[Peepster]

Some close friends of mine, who were not predisposed to liking a Disney-type vacation anyway picked Christmas Day for their one and only visit. I couldn't believe believe it!!!
Not only that, the father wrote and posted a hateful blog about the way Disney rips people off. Disney may be greedy, but the company can't cure stupidity!
I have no sympathy for non-planners!