Why Is SSR So "Un-Poplular" with Resales?

[lockedoutlogic]

Oh, for pity's sake! Don't you get bored posting the same thing over and over and over again?

It would depend on the message......

What would you like me to say....the question was directly about the desirability of Saratoga as it relates to resales....

"Saratoga's great....wishes, magic, dreams, wonder"?


Don't look for the "what's up with saratoga?" threads to go away......more memberships everyday at AKV.....Contemp......Grand Cali......

do you really think the dynamic will get better?

 

[DVCSAMNH]

It would depend on the message......

What would you like me to say....the question was directly about the desirability of Saratoga as it relates to resales....

"Saratoga's great....wishes, magic, dreams, wonder"?


Don't look for the "what's up with saratoga?" threads to go away......more memberships everyday at AKV.....Contemp......Grand Cali......

do you really think the dynamic will get better?

You put your opinion out there like it is the only one that has any merit. It is only one person's opinion. There is poster after poster that doesn't agree with it and feels there is not a darn thing wrong with the "dynamic". But, that goes right over your head. I, personally, very seldom ever book anywhere other than SSR and you will never book there. I think that makes the system work!

I have no problem with someone, including you, giving their opinion but the OP has to realize that a lot of the strongly negative SSR posts on this board are by the same people. They can literally cut and paste what they post onto each SSR thread. So many times in the last couple of months posters have done the math to show that there are not any more SSR resales out there comparatively to any other resort, room for room and that doesn't sink in either.

 

[jrsmom]

We just closed on a 120 point SSR resale. This is the resort that we were most interested. One of the reasons was how close to Downtown Disney.

When we were looking, we did see a lot of contracts that were stripped, we found one that wasn't and bought it. We are looking forward to our first trip home this winter.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You put your opinion out there like it is the only one that has any merit. It is only one person's opinion. There is poster after poster that doesn't agree with it and feels there is not a darn thing wrong with the "dynamic". But, that goes right over your head. I, personally, very seldom ever book anywhere other than SSR and you will never book there. I think that makes the system work!

I have no problem with someone, including you, giving their opinion but the OP has to realize that a lot of the strongly negative SSR posts on this board are by the same people. They can literally cut and paste what they post onto each SSR thread. So many times in the last couple of months posters have done the math to show that there are not any more SSR resales out there comparatively to any other resort, room for room and that doesn't sink in either.

It's simple numbers....

Here's a standard conversation with a reservation agent:

"Hi....I'd like to make a reservation for Date X through Date Y in category Z"

"Ok...just one moment....let me check that for you...."
"hmmmmmm......ahhhhh......uh huh......."
"I have it at Disney's Saratoga Springs Resort and Spa........I have......uh.....welll......"

and it's a crap shoot from there.

Tell me i'm wrong.

and as far as "cutting and pasting" the negatives....that's hypocritical.

You know that the "supporters" do the exact same thing. "we love it there.....will be there in 397 days with DH DW DD34 DD17 DS 2 DD0 DS1!!!!!" sincerely, MOMMYOFDAPRINZEZ18759868

come on, now.....be fair

 

[White_Sox_Fan]

I guess you must have missed this thread, which was started a couple of days ago - http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1966113

And the one two weeks before that, and the one two before that and ...

You put your opinion out there like it is the only one that has any merit. It is only one person's opinion. There is poster after poster that doesn't agree with it and feels there is not a darn thing wrong with the "dynamic". But, that goes right over your head. I, personally, very seldom ever book anywhere other than SSR and you will never book there. I think that makes the system work!

I have no problem with someone, including you, giving their opinion but the OP has to realize that a lot of the strongly negative SSR posts on this board are by the same people. They can literally cut and paste what they post onto each SSR thread. So many times in the last couple of months posters have done the math to show that there are not any more SSR resales out there comparatively to any other resort, room for room and that doesn't sink in either.

Just like in politics, say enough and it becomes true regardless of fact.

Oh, for pity's sake! Don't you get bored posting the same thing over and over and over again?

Maybe someone can sticky one of these threads so we don't have a new one every two weeks.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

And the one two weeks before that, and the one two before that and ...



Just like in politics, say enough and it becomes true regardless of fact.



Maybe someone can sticky one of these threads so we don't have a new one every two weeks.

Did you read the thread?

 

[Tink6666]

It's simple. Saratoga Springs is, by far, the largest DVC resort of all so it has more resales. We own at Saratoga Springs because of length of contract and low maintenance fees. Due to the massive size of the property, I never have to worry about availability. We like to stay at the resorts located at the parks like BWV, BCV, and WLV. Out of the past 8 DVC trips, we have yet to stay at Saratoga Springs.

Glad to hear that you can book trips outside your home resort. I have been a bit worried that we won't be able to get into any other esort at the 7 month point or later. We are purchasing resale at SSR and our contract went to ROFR yesterday. We will have 98 points to spend before 08-01-09 and I have been trying to figure out when we will be able to make it WDW with our various family schedules.

 

[kikiq]

Saratoga is the least desirable home resort on the WDW property......and that is not even a stretch....

You are entitled to your opinion positive or negative and please do continue to post your opinions. However, I think it might be the way you are phrasing your opinion. By saying "Saratoga is the least desirable home resort on the WDW property", it seems that you are stating a fact, when you really are stating your opinion. A simple "I think" in front of that phrase and it becomes your opinion and it doesn't seem that you are talking for everyone. JMHO.

 

[kikiq]

My biggest question is... why does it seem that SSR is so un-popular? In the resales, there seems to be as many SSR's as all the other DVC's combined. It's a lovely resort but we are staying away, in part, because of the number of un-sold resales. Resale is NOT a factor in our choice, but there must be a reason(s) so many people are unhappy with SSR. Price? Size of resort? Proximity to parks?

I am a SSR owner and can appreciate your liking OKW/SSR for the more tranquil feeling. You visited the resorts which is more than some people have done BEFORE they bought DVC. If you are financially ready to buy and have toured the resorts, then buy OKW resale if that's where you feel YOUR family will be happy. If we weren't waiting on GCV points, we would snap up some of those SSR resale points.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

You are entitled to your opinion positive or negative and please do continue to post your opinions. However, I think it might be the way you are phrasing your opinion. By saying "Saratoga is the least desirable home resort on the WDW property", it seems that you are stating a fact, when you really are stating your opinion. A simple "I think" in front of that phrase and it becomes your opinion and it doesn't seem that you are talking for everyone. JMHO.

your point is taken.....

sometimes i oversimplify....this would be a case. There is no exact way to barometer popularity...

I used to work at Caribbean.....which had held the highest annual capacity for about 12 years in a row at the time.....but to say it was the "most popular" would be overstating it....as financials....location.....convention blocks alter those kinds of assessments....

Again...my apologies if i was too matter of fact about it....

I would say that Saratoga has the largest inventory and is consistently the last to become unavailable.....indicating low reservation bookings from non-home resort members......which in my opinion indicates that it is the least desirable when considering all DVC properties and owners in reference to the 7 month booking window....

 

[tinkerbell102]

saratoga has the highest amount of resales for all the reasons listed above....


and the one i'm going to say:

Saratoga is the least desirable home resort on the WDW property......and that is not even a stretch....

it's the largest.....it's the most generic in terms of thought and effort put into it......it has the least "disney feel" of any of the properties.....

now comes the part where all the defenders tell me i'm wrong....

well i'm not....as evidenced in the fact that saratoga is always the last location to get booked up.....

Even the size does not provide the excuse for this.....as if it held any appeal....then it would book and old key west or animal kingdom or boardwalk would be the last to fill.....

they never are.....saratoga is

FYI...on our last trip this past may, we were unable to book a room for 2 nights during out trip anywhere except OKW, even saratoga was unavailable!

 

[lockedoutlogic]

FYI...on our last trip this past may, we were unable to book a room for 2 nights during out trip anywhere except OKW, even saratoga was unavailable!

that happens.....but we have traveled or booked travel in 8 different calender months from 2007-2009......and Saratoga was available at all those times....and remained so as i monitored waitlists for those occasions....

I would say that OKW is slightly more in demand than saratoga....but they are fairly close overall....Saratoga is viewed as an "update" of OKW by many.....which is an understandable angle. I still think the facilities are nicer at OKW and it always seems "less crowded" than Saratoga.....personally speaking.

The demand goes up in leaps and bounds from there.....as beach club is rarely available at anytime now.....wilderness lodge perhaps a little more so....boardwalk a little more than that......animal kingdom occasionally.....okw and saratoga are close.....

If anyone wants to test this.....they can.....

they can call once a month and ask what is available at the 7 month window.....right it down....do it once a month.....and see where it comes out at the end of a year.....

but i'll stop......as suggesting that saratoga has far more resales because it is the least in demand has been deemed "off-topic"

 

[Mississippian]

Saratoga is viewed as an "update" of OKW by many.....which is an understandable angle. I still think the facilities are nicer at OKW and it always seems "less crowded" than Saratoga.....personally speaking.

The demand goes up in leaps and bounds from there.....as beach club is rarely available at anytime now.....wilderness lodge perhaps a little more so....boardwalk a little more than that......animal kingdom occasionally.....okw and saratoga are close.....

Lockedoutlogic,

I wasn't a member of the Disboards back when BWV was announced, but I suspect the membership was shocked that DVC would actually be putting a DVC resort in such a good location. Of course, there were terrible trade-offs. The prime location came with tiny rooms and expensive point charts.

I would say that the hotel-resorts, with their tiny, expensive rooms quickly became more popular that OKW. People were willing to make giant sacrifices in order to enjoy hotel amenities and easy park access. Of course, OKW, despite its dreadful location, remained a good option because of its giant units offered at bargain prices. And yes, a minority of people don't want to be too close to the action.

Then came SSR, offering the same thing that OKW has, except with the tiny, expensive rooms of a hotel resort. SSR does have a spa, but of course most Americans don't use spas and have no desire to do so. And so demand for SSR is quite limited.

This is why SSR is the least-in-demand DVC resort. Add to this the fact there there are more SSR contracts than anywhere else, and you can see why there are lots of resales. SSR was an extremely hard sell for Disney compared to the other resorts, and I suspect it is much harder for the resellers to sell, too. When the price gets to about $70 a point, they will start to sell pretty briskly (and based on some of the incentives some of the buyers got, $70 a point is not too much of a loss).

 

[Mickey'sApprentice]

Lockedoutlogic,

I wasn't a member of the Disboards back when BWV was announced, but I suspect the membership was shocked that DVC would actually be putting a DVC resort in such a good location. Of course, there were terrible trade-offs. The prime location came with tiny rooms and expensive point charts.

I would say that the hotel-resorts, with their tiny, expensive rooms quickly became more popular that OKW. People were willing to make giant sacrifices in order to enjoy hotel amenities and easy park access. Of course, OKW, despite its dreadful location, remained a good option because of its giant units offered at bargain prices. And yes, a minority of people don't want to be too close to the action.

Then came SSR, offering the same thing that OKW has, except with the tiny, expensive rooms of a hotel resort. SSR does have a spa, but of course most Americans don't use spas and have no desire to do so. And so demand for SSR is quite limited.

This is why SSR is the least-in-demand DVC resort. Add to this the fact there there are more SSR contracts than anywhere else, and you can see why there are lots of resales. SSR was an extremely hard sell for Disney compared to the other resorts, and I suspect it is much harder for the resellers to sell, too. When the price gets to about $70 a point, they will start to sell pretty briskly (and based on some of the incentives some of the buyers got, $70 a point is not too much of a loss).

I had always thought that SSR actually sold pretty briskly. Disney said that membership doubled between 2004-2008. I do think the guides had to push the other resorts however.

I think your observations about the size of the rooms and the location are spot on! However, I probably like the interior decor of Saratoga better than all of the others.

BTW, my sister stayed 1 night at SSR before moving to BWV and tried everything she could do to get back to SSR.

 

[lockedoutlogic]

Lockedoutlogic,

I wasn't a member of the Disboards back when BWV was announced, but I suspect the membership was shocked that DVC would actually be putting a DVC resort in such a good location. Of course, there were terrible trade-offs. The prime location came with tiny rooms and expensive point charts.

I would say that the hotel-resorts, with their tiny, expensive rooms quickly became more popular that OKW. People were willing to make giant sacrifices in order to enjoy hotel amenities and easy park access. Of course, OKW, despite its dreadful location, remained a good option because of its giant units offered at bargain prices. And yes, a minority of people don't want to be too close to the action.

Then came SSR, offering the same thing that OKW has, except with the tiny, expensive rooms of a hotel resort. SSR does have a spa, but of course most Americans don't use spas and have no desire to do so. And so demand for SSR is quite limited.

This is why SSR is the least-in-demand DVC resort. Add to this the fact there there are more SSR contracts than anywhere else, and you can see why there are lots of resales. SSR was an extremely hard sell for Disney compared to the other resorts, and I suspect it is much harder for the resellers to sell, too. When the price gets to about $70 a point, they will start to sell pretty briskly (and based on some of the incentives some of the buyers got, $70 a point is not too much of a loss).

you are completely correct and I agree with you on all counts.....

unfortunately.....Saratoga was all that was available when i purchased....even though they started selling animal kingdom 3 months later (two months after they announced )

The backstory of Saratoga is and ingenious one for disney.....they just took a dud resort and overdeveloped it with cookie cutter, unimaginative timeshare units.....but i guess that point is lost on many.

The one thing i'd add is that when they built Wilderness Lodge...and shortly after Beach Club.....DVC wasnt' a great sell.

I know they still had Vero, Hilton Head, and I believe Boardwalk still up for sale...

So the moves to go to the "resort/timeshare" model made sense:
1. The facilities were already there at both locations.....all they had to add....literally....was a block of rooms, a pool, a hottub, and some poolchairs.....even the pre-existing service lines made it much easier to throw them up
2. The fact that DVC was a hard sell at the time explains the size of the two units......does anyone believe that either Wilderness or Beach would be so small if they sold at the rate that Saratoga did the last few years? Hardly.....there'd be another 300 units straped to Yacht Club and 400 more in the Woods next to River Country...rest assured.
3. DVC sales were stale and they didn't quite know where to go with it in the late 90's.....i think that those two new locations were as much to freshen up the program as they were to provide new sales and choices. I'm still not sure how putting a 100 units at Wilderness with two full service restaurants makes any sense when you then put 900 units at Saratoga with somekind of new age dining arrangement (quickserve/giftshop and a pre-existing golf clubhouse) and no park access.....if you can explain that....i'm all ears

They are....actually....doing the same setup with AKL....only they screwed it up by putting up way to many units. AKL has been a hard sell from Day 1...I toured it during construction....and watched it's inventory nightly during it's first two years of operation. The demand was never inline with it's potential....not even close. Disney never could figure out why (at least publically) and even did the unheard of move of dropping it's rates significantly in the second year (by as much as 25% for some categories). Trust your own instincts as to why that is and has always been the case. But a problem with AKV that's coming soon is that they built too many units and are going to sell too many shares.....which will spill more demand onto the other locations and create further headaches.

The only other thing i'll add is that the saratoga point cost is a big problem.....it should be exactly the same as OKW......exactly....

The point disparity is a huge problem across the board....as why would someone recieve equal (some say less) amenity and perks at Saratoga than they do at OKW for 20% more a night? It's ludicrous....
On the flip...why on earth would i want to pay for saratoga for a studio (in points) to wait in line at Artist's palette for a mickey waffle when i could go to beach club and walk into EPCOT in five minutes from my room at Beach Club for only 1 more point a night?....after i've had breakfast with donald duck at Cape May

again...it's silly....

but i have to stay on point: this thread is about why there is a glut of Saratoga Contracts up through third party resale (and undoubtedly DVC is sitting on a pile of them as well).....

....I can't come up with any theories as to why this enigma occurs.....all DVC locations definitely have a legion of diehards who pick them first no matter what's available...therefore making them all equal

 

[DVCSAMNH]

you are completely correct and I agree with you on all counts.....

unfortunately.....Saratoga was all that was available when i purchased....even though they started selling animal kingdom 3 months later (two months after they announced )

The backstory of Saratoga is and ingenious one for disney.....they just took a dud resort and overdeveloped it with cookie cutter, unimaginative timeshare units.....but i guess that point is lost on many.

The one thing i'd add is that when they built Wilderness Lodge...and shortly after Beach Club.....DVC wasnt' a great sell.

I know they still had Vero, Hilton Head, and I believe Boardwalk still up for sale...

So the moves to go to the "resort/timeshare" model made sense:
1. The facilities were already there at both locations.....all they had to add....literally....was a block of rooms, a pool, a hottub, and some poolchairs.....even the pre-existing service lines made it much easier to throw them up
2. The fact that DVC was a hard sell at the time explains the size of the two units......does anyone believe that either Wilderness or Beach would be so small if they sold at the rate that Saratoga did the last few years? Hardly.....there'd be another 300 units straped to Yacht Club and 400 more in the Woods next to River Country...rest assured.
3. DVC sales were stale and they didn't quite know where to go with it in the late 90's.....i think that those two new locations were as much to freshen up the program as they were to provide new sales and choices. I'm still not sure how putting a 100 units at Wilderness with two full service restaurants makes any sense when you then put 900 units at Saratoga with somekind of new age dining arrangement (quickserve/giftshop and a pre-existing golf clubhouse) and no park access.....if you can explain that....i'm all ears

They are....actually....doing the same setup with AKL....only they screwed it up by putting up way to many units. AKL has been a hard sell from Day 1...I toured it during construction....and watched it's inventory nightly during it's first two years of operation. The demand was never inline with it's potential....not even close. Disney never could figure out why (at least publically) and even did the unheard of move of dropping it's rates significantly in the second year (by as much as 25% for some categories). Trust your own instincts as to why that is and has always been the case. But a problem with AKV that's coming soon is that they built too many units and are going to sell too many shares.....which will spill more demand onto the other locations and create further headaches.

The only other thing i'll add is that the saratoga point cost is a big problem.....it should be exactly the same as OKW......exactly....

The point disparity is a huge problem across the board....as why would someone recieve equal (some say less) amenity and perks at Saratoga than they do at OKW for 20% more a night? It's ludicrous....
On the flip...why on earth would i want to pay for saratoga for a studio (in points) to wait in line at Artist's palette for a mickey waffle when i could go to beach club and walk into EPCOT in five minutes from my room at Beach Club for only 1 more point a night?....after i've had breakfast with donald duck at Cape May

again...it's silly....

but i have to stay on point: this thread is about why there is a glut of Saratoga Contracts up through third party resale (and undoubtedly DVC is sitting on a pile of them as well).....

....I can't come up with any theories as to why this enigma occurs.....all DVC locations definitely have a legion of diehards who pick them first no matter what's available...therefore making them all equal

The gospel according to lockedoutlogic.....

 

[lockedoutlogic]

The gospel according to lockedoutlogic.....

Well.....i could spend all my time saying "geez....i've heard this before" after someone else's opinions......but i just don't have enough time to do both...so i had to make a choice....

It was a tough call

 

[Stageman]

We bought SSR resale and our first trip home is coming up. It meant that we could get a smaller contract rather than buying the full 150 points - although we've added on already

 

[tinkerbell102]

 

[tinkerbell102]

that happens.....but we have traveled or booked travel in 8 different calender months from 2007-2009......and Saratoga was available at all those times....and remained so as i monitored waitlists for those occasions....

I would say that OKW is slightly more in demand than saratoga....but they are fairly close overall....Saratoga is viewed as an "update" of OKW by many.....which is an understandable angle. I still think the facilities are nicer at OKW and it always seems "less crowded" than Saratoga.....personally speaking.

The demand goes up in leaps and bounds from there.....as beach club is rarely available at anytime now.....wilderness lodge perhaps a little more so....boardwalk a little more than that......animal kingdom occasionally.....okw and saratoga are close.....

If anyone wants to test this.....they can.....

they can call once a month and ask what is available at the 7 month window.....right it down....do it once a month.....and see where it comes out at the end of a year.....

but i'll stop......as suggesting that saratoga has far more resales because it is the least in demand has been deemed "off-topic"

As they say, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and why it is so nice to have such a vast array of resorts to choose from! We are speaking of Disney
properties, and Disney creates everything with the highest of standards, including Saratoga!