Why I Hate the DDP

[marivaid]

Is the DDP perfect HECK NO. But IMO it's a symptom not a cause. If you want to blame someone for the decline in quality/quantity, blame the guy who made the decision to buy cheaper food and serve smaller portions.

Disney is not losing $$ with the DDP, it's making a killing. In the end the money you spend at Disney, whether you spend it on resorts, restaurants or shops, goes into the same pocket.
More people stay on site, pay rack rate for resorts, eat on site instead of going to chain restaurants outside of the World.

Moreover Disney gets that money months in advance. They don't have to worry about the guest changing their minds at the last minute because the guests are now "stuck" on property.Disney is now guaranteed a minimum of $40 per day for each guest on the DDP.

Add to that the fact that many will choose to do an extra meal or two OOP because they feel they're getting such a good deal with the plan, or they don't want to waste credits on a character breakfast.
You think you're "saving" more because you'll use the TS credits on a more expensive meal, but the truth is you're not saving at all - you're spending more money on top of what you've already paid!

 

[apostolic4life]

Two things......I do agree with you that the DDP didn't cause the dumbing down of the restaurant menu....I do believe it was a hand-in-hand effort. I suspect the problem was tackled by WDW execs trying to A) cut cost and B) get many more people into the restaurants. B could only occur if A happened. And both would result in more people walking through WDW restaurant doors. They could not accomplish that through slashing rack rates at WDW resorts. This promo ties dining to resort occupancy so it's good points are two fold....getting the patron to stay onsite and getting the patron to eat at TS restaurants. Discounts on hotel rooms only accomplish half of that goal.

I think the foot traffic in the resorts would increase the number of guests using the on-site dining venues, but they would have had to attach some additional incentive to get the traffic in restaurants up to DDP levels. I think we are in good agreement over this though!!

And while I do think that WDW restaurants are on par with and slightly above big box restaurant chain food (love that term!), the price OOP is ridiculous as compared to a restaurant chain even adding the so-called 20% premium for location, location, location. The pricing is much more on par with DDP even without the tip (see, I'm giving you 18%).

As for pricing, it can be very expensive and the value may not be there if you buy certain items OOP. In the venue I work (a symphony hall & museum) we jack prices up dramatically on many things due to our "captive" patrons. A 20oz. fountain drink is $2.00 where the same drink down the street at a fast food joint is only $1.19. We are way more than 20% over the acceptable price of that beverage, but because you cannot bring in food & beverage from outside you are stuck with those prices (fair or not) just like at WDW.

But, I think the bottom line is if it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, find something that does. I think those of us who have been to WDW for years and have used TS restaurants see a huge difference. We don't matter right now. So be it.

I agree with you about the use of DDP and how it fits your situation. BTW, you matter.......just the simple fact of economics though: the minority never drives the market trends!!

 

[CR88]

3. The fact that ordinary people are able to afford to eat at sit down establishments within WDW really seems to bother you.

I guess in a way it does.....the huge impact DDP has made on Disney restaurants IMO is terrible in all the ways I have already mentioned.

From reading other posts I see I'm not the only one and I believe Disney will one day take this into consideration and make some changes that caters to all.

With all due respect, I believe Disney has $9,925,000,000 reasons to disagree. Revenue from Parks and Resorts is up 10%. Operating Income is up 30%, and occupancy and per room spending is up as well. In fact here is a quote from the 2006 Disney Annual Report.

"Revenues at Parks and Resorts increased 10%, or $902 million,
to $9.9 billion due to increases of $647 million at our domestic resorts and a
net increase of $255 million at our international resorts.
Domestic Parks and Resorts: At our domestic parks and resorts, increased
revenues were due to increased guest spending, theme park attendance,
and hotel occupancy, as well as higher sales at Disney Vacation Club."

The plan is not perfect by any means as is evident with people being turned away from empty restaurants, but for the most part it works as intended. I would have gladly paid for our meals if there were no DDP, we really enjoyed all of our meals. As far as Disney is concerned, the bottom line will far outweigh the posts on this list or any other list for that matter. And what is wrong with giving people who wouldn’t normally get a chance to enjoy a TS meal at WDW the opportunity to experience it? I believe there are a number of posters on DIS who have complained that quality is being negatively affected, but for the fairly new people like my wife and I, we think it is great. When things affect the bottom line you'll see changes. We started by staying at a moderate, tried a value, now we are DVC members. Walt’s big plan worked on us.

 

[apostolic4life]

Moreover Disney gets that money months in advance. They don't have to worry about the guest changing their minds at the last minute because the guests are now "stuck" on property.Disney is now guaranteed a minimum of $40 per day for each guest on the DDP.

Add to that the fact that many will choose to do an extra meal or two OOP because they feel they're getting such a good deal with the plan, or they don't want to waste credits on a character breakfast.
You think you're "saving" more because you'll use the TS credits on a more expensive meal, but the truth is you're not saving at all - you're spending more money on top of what you've already paid!

We often buy additional meals at locations not covered by DDP. DW and I always enjoy afternoon tea in the Gardenview Tea Room when at WDW, or the occasional trip to a Signature Restaurant. On our next trip we are going to V&A, so they will be getting more money from us above our DDP. Many would call spending money OOP when on DDP crazy, but it allows us to enjoy the finer aspects of WDW dining not included on the plan.

 

[JWG]

DDP is nothing more than a response to "all inclusive" vacation options.

Disney needed to boost TS dining (I have to admit, in my 6 visits to Disney in the last 13 years I have eaten TS a total of 4 times) and offer an option to people who want the all inclusive package.

This clearly accomplished both. We recently did the 7 day Disney Cruise followed by 1 day at the parks. Two things: getting TS last minute was not possible (in late September none the less) and we went into shell shock at CS in Epcot. After getting 3-5 course meals "free" on the cruise for 7 days we were beat by paying nearly $20 for a couple of burgers, fries and pop.

We are not doing DDP in July, but will likely add $$$ to see what, if any, it would have cost/saved us.

I think DDP is a great option for people, I wouldn't expect there not to be an all inclusive option in this day and age.

I do agree, last minute dining is no longer an option and that does stink. I'd prefer not make my reservations months in advance as I like to eat around our park schedule and based on what we're doing that day.

 

[mamaprincess]

Hooray!!!

 

[marivaid]

We often buy additional meals at locations not covered by DDP. DW and I always enjoy afternoon tea in the Gardenview Tea Room when at WDW, or the occasional trip to a Signature Restaurant. On our next trip we are going to V&A, so they will be getting more money from us above our DDP. Many would call spending money OOP when on DDP crazy, but it allows us to enjoy the finer aspects of WDW dining not included on the plan.

Yes we do it too. Not for fine dining though, we are character meal junkies.
I have 3 OOP meals planned while we're on the plan, so here's $150 more for Disney on top of the $311 we're already paying (2 adults, 4 days of DDP).

ETA : Oh great, now I want to add the afternoon tea to our list !!!

 

[kaytieeldr]

As for the DDP folks making those ADR's in advance and ruining the spontanaeity of the non DDPlanners, that is sad but to be expected. The DDP folks have paid for their meals before they ever arrived to WDW (unless they are DVC). You prepay your resort much of the time, wouldn't it be sort of dumb to do that but not make a resort reservation, and then randomly go from resort to resort hoping to find a room?

Um, well, I never thought about it before… but if I could make a reservation at Pop Century and end up getting “stuck” with finally finding a room at Animal Kingdom Lodge – I’m all for it! Good marketing suggestion!

Maybe the servers are getting fed up with the dining plan. People use it to their full advantage. While some may not get the appitizer, entree and desert, some people probably do. Theres probably some people who use the entire thing per person. Each person gets an appitizer, entree and desert. The DDP is making the servers work harder, and they are probably getting burnt out.

Conversely, at least at the Disney-owned restaurants, the server’s tip increases based on the total cost of the Guests’ meal. Somebody above mentioned the $18 pasta dish. This, combined with a soft drink, ordered by somebody on or off the Disney Dining Plan would give the server a tip of $3.60 via the DDP, or between $3.00 and $4.00 OOP. That same diner uses the DDP to pay for their $9.99 appetizer, their $25.49 steak, their $3.50 smoothie, and their $5.99 dessert provides the server with a tip of $8.09.

We dont know how it is behind the scenes when it comes to paying either. They might have to do more work when paying with the DDP. They might have to stand there and try to figure out what the 18% tip is, or who knows what else.

Okay, um, you know they have these new-fangled machinery thingies behind the scenes called computerized cash registers, right? That can be programmed to, among other things, calculate 18% or any other percent of anything? NOT that this is even an issue, since that calculation appears nowhere on the Guest’s check or receipt – it’s calculated in/by Accounting, and paid to the CM by Human Resources.

If someone doesnt get a desert or whatever, maybe the server has to pay Disney for that loss. You never know.

Yeah, we do know. Servers pay taxes on their ACTUAL CHECKS, not on what Disney assumes the Guest might order.

I'm not talking about full restaurants at a peak time, that's obvious to me. I'm talking about walking up to a restaurant and seeing that it's half (or partially) empty and having them tell you they are booked. I just see it as bad for business.

It’s very possible, especially early or late, that the restaurant isn’t staffed to handle a full seating.

You are correct. They are still "priority seating" just called ADR's.

Um, well, actually I asked about this when I started calling for my upcoming trip. They are once again called reservations, but they are handled as PS/ADR/call-ahead-seating (which is really what they are – we just need to call much further ahead than for Outback or the 99 )

I'm always baffled when people say that the DDP hasn't contributed to the change/decline (you pick the verb) in menus. It's virtually impossible for a restaurant to produce an innovative, creative meal without free reign in the kitchen. That translates into no price controls.

I didn’t know there were any restaurants anywhere with no price controls

 

[PamNC]

We did it once, back in November and won't do it again. The main reason we didn't like it is because it's just too much darn food!!!! My DH & I love to eat, don't get me wrong, but I can't handle an appetizer, entree and dessert each meal. Or most meals. I hate the idea of wasting food. Plus, I had the attitude, "well, it's included...I should eat it." Then, I overeat and feel like crap-o-la.

The other reason I don't like it is because we prefer to dine at mostly TS meals. The DDP forced us to eat too much CS. We love sit down breakfasts, but as you know it's not wise to use your TS for breakfast. Not a good way to get your money's worth.

I also think that the DDP is "dumbing" down the menus. And, making it harder to get ressies. I could be wrong and I don't have proof, but that's my perception.

To each his own but the DDP isn't for me.

PamNC

 

[Laren]

Well there isn't much I could add at this point that Marivaid and Apostolic4life haven't already said *lol* but I just wanted to address the poster who said, and please forgive me I didn't remember your screen, it' sbeen a long day LOL

As for making multiple ADRs. If thats what I wanna do, I will do it. I wont make 2 ADRs for the same time frame for 1 day, but unlike a lot of others, I dont get to go often, for 2 reasons. Money and DH being in the military.

No one takes any issue with booking multiple ADRs, I don't believe, UNLESS you're booking two for the same time frame on the same day. That was what I meant in my posts, anyway. Certainly everybody on the DDP HAS to book multiple ADRs during their trip or we wouldn't get to eat TS either! I hope that you didn't feel anyone was complaining about that; my only issue was with people booking, say, two dinners for the same day in different spots with different phone numbers to try to get around Disney's system just so they could make up their mind at the last minute and stiff one of the restaurants, thus preventing another family from dining there that night.

Hope that I'm speaking my point clearly. it's the doublebooked thingie that upset me.

People certainly can have an opinion on the DDP and not get flamed; I don't even really know what my official opinion is cause we're using it the first time this fall I'll let ya'll know when we get home *LOL* But it's the attitude of people who are griping that people who used to 'only' eat CS are now eating TS that got me going, cause it had a negative connotation to it.

Laren

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

With all due respect, I believe Disney has $9,925,000,000 reasons to disagree. Revenue from Parks and Resorts is up 10%. Operating Income is up 30%, and occupancy and per room spending is up as well. In fact here is a quote from the 2006 Disney Annual Report.

"Revenues at Parks and Resorts increased 10%, or $902 million,
to $9.9 billion due to increases of $647 million at our domestic resorts and a
net increase of $255 million at our international resorts.
Domestic Parks and Resorts: At our domestic parks and resorts, increased
revenues were due to increased guest spending, theme park attendance,
and hotel occupancy, as well as higher sales at Disney Vacation Club."

The plan is not perfect by any means as is evident with people being turned away from empty restaurants, but for the most part it works as intended. I would have gladly paid for our meals if there were no DDP, we really enjoyed all of our meals. As far as Disney is concerned, the bottom line will far outweigh the posts on this list or any other list for that matter. And what is wrong with giving people who wouldn’t normally get a chance to enjoy a TS meal at WDW the opportunity to experience it? I believe there are a number of posters on DIS who have complained that quality is being negatively affected, but for the fairly new people like my wife and I, we think it is great. When things affect the bottom line you'll see changes. We started by staying at a moderate, tried a value, now we are DVC members. Walt’s big plan worked on us.

We gratefully know what is in the report and happy about earnings....
Most agree that if you are new to Disney you wouldn't recognize the difference in TS dining. Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).

 

[7/24soccer]

We gratefully know what is in the report and happy about earnings....
Most agree that if you are new to Disney you wouldn't recognize the difference in TS dining. Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).

Since I agree that eating an appetizer, entree, dessert at one sitting is a lot - does anybody spilt that with say, a spouse, thus only using 1 TS credit one evening and then using 2 the nest evening for a siganature TS meal?

 

[photo_chick]

Such an interesting topic. We are going and planning on DDP. FOr us when i totalled what we would spend on the character meals we wanted teh DDP was about the same price and would end up covering most all our other meals. I could not argue with that, and I like knowing it will be paid for ahead of time and I don't have to wory abou tit.

Now on not getting a table... There are a few resteraunts in my area that require reservations months ahead of time to get in. This is not a new thing in the world of dining out.

 

[Tinkerbell24]

Since I agree that eating an appetizer, entree, dessert at one sitting is a lot - does anybody spilt that with say, a spouse, thus only using 1 TS credit one evening and then using 2 the nest evening for a siganature TS meal?

We have done this before when we have gone somewhere where there is way too much food for us to eat. We do it every once in a while, depending on the place and how hungry we are.

 

[Amy&Dan]

Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).

And you know this how? So in addition to your vastly superior knowledge of all things regarding Disney dining, you also know that many of us live in parts of the country where fine dining is unavailable. Do you travel around the U.S. doing a study of each region, state etc., making notes of how many five star restaurants are available per capita of that region?

You say this isn't a flame towards others and you are right. Its really just a statement of how you feel about yourself and the region you live in. I think I really get the whole picture of that now after reading your latest statement.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

And you know this how? So in addition to your vastly superior knowledge of all things regarding Disney dining, you also know that many of us live in parts of the country where fine dining is unavailable. Do you travel around the U.S. doing a study of each region, state etc., making notes of how many five star restaurants are available per capita of that region?

You say this isn't a flame towards others and you are right. Its really just a statement of how you feel about yourself and the region you live in. I think I really get the whole picture of that now after reading your latest statement.

We travel alot and sometimes to places that are not in a metro area or an upcoming area and yes there is vastly different menus/tastes all over the country all over the world if you really want a broad answer.
Yes if we are going to a new area or repeat area where dining has been poor we do some homework prior to the trip via Zagats or Fodors and local publications. We like to know what we are in for.
I do however enjoy your sarcasm.

 

[photo_chick]

We travel alot and sometimes to places that are not in a metro area or an upcoming area and yes there is vastly different menus/tastes all over the country all over the world if you really want a broad answer.
Yes if we are going to a new area or repeat area where dining has been poor we do some homework prior to the trip via Zagats or Fodors and local publications. We like to know what we are in for.
I do however enjoy your sarcasm.

I have traveled a lot too. I have found that it is not so much a lack of good places to eat, but a lack of what suits my particualr tastes. I went to a chinese place that everyone was raving about. I did not like it at all and felt it was one of the worst places I had ever eaten.... What is good is all a matter of one's own point of view and personal taste.

 

[CR88]

We gratefully know what is in the report and happy about earnings....
Most agree that if you are new to Disney you wouldn't recognize the difference in TS dining. Also, I think where you are from strongly effects what you consider good, excellent food (no that isn't a knock all looking to flame just a fact that some/many parts of the country do not have fine, high quality, diversified dining readily available).

Where I am? Be careful now before you assume. Remember what they say about assuming. Actually, we are about an hour outside of Chicago, and make frequent trips just for dinner, and as you probably know, Chicago is widely known for its quality and diversity of restaurants, which is one of the reasons we go so often. Not sure if it holds up to your side of the country, but it may be close. My family is also from Southern Italy and operates a number of authentic Italian Restaurants here in northern Indiana so I may know a little about good Italian food as well. Seriously though, just a little offense taken, but it's all good, I do understand where you are coming from. Look I am not saying that Disney Dining compares to the elite or the best authentic restaurants, but it is above the bar. Ruth's Chris and St. Elmo's both are known for their steaks, but we had a filet and LeCellier that rivaled both. Would we have the same experience every time? I don't know, we have only been there once. The steak we had at Concourse was also just as good. Where they as good as the best steak we have ever eaten, no, but for $38.99 per day, how can you beat it?? We have paid more for a steak alone at more than one restaurant. We also just returned from Rome, and I can honestly say that the food at Alfredo’s, which is widely criticized, was on par with any of the restaurants we tried on Via Veneto or in Piazza Navona. Those areas are also known for their cuisine and both times we dined at Alfredo’s it was just as good, or at least on par. Again, would it be every time, I am not sure, but it was when we were there and that's all we have to go by. So be careful before you assume that the people defending the DDP don’t know good food. I am sure many on this list have tried just as much good food and still have a different opinion. Maybe they have yet to experience that meal that forever taints the Disney Dining experience.

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

Where I am? Be careful now before you assume. Remember what they say about assuming. Actually, we are about an hour outside of Chicago, and make frequent trips just for dinner, and as you probably know, Chicago is widely known for its quality and diversity of restaurants, which is one of the reasons we go so often. Not sure if it holds up to your side of the country, but it may be close. My family is also from Southern Italy and operates a number of authentic Italian Restaurants here in northern Indiana so I may know a little about good Italian food as well. Seriously though, just a little offense taken, but it's all good, I do understand where you are coming from. Look I am not saying that Disney Dining compares to the elite or the best authentic restaurants, but it is above the bar. Ruth's Chris and St. Elmo's both are known for their steaks, but we had a filet and LeCellier that rivaled both. Would we have the same experience every time? I don't know, we have only been there once. The steak we had at Concourse was also just as good. Where they as good as the best steak we have ever eaten, no, but for $38.99 per day, how can you beat it?? We have paid more for a steak alone at more than one restaurant. We also just returned from Rome, and I can honestly say that the food at Alfredo’s, which is widely criticized, was on par with any of the restaurants we tried on Via Veneto or in Piazza Navona. Those areas are also known for their cuisine and both times we dined at Alfredo’s it was just as good, or at least on par. Again, would it be every time, I am not sure, but it was when we were there and that's all we have to go by. So be careful before you assume that the people defending the DDP don’t know good food. I am sure many on this list have tried just as much good food and still have a different opinion. Maybe they have yet to experience that meal that forever taints the Disney Dining experience.

I am assuming nothing just telling of our experiences, that is what we are here for to talk, pass opinions about (or so I thought). I would have to disagree on the comparision between food in Rome & Alfredos's, although we do like Alfredos.

 

[CR88]

I am assuming nothing just telling of our experiences, that is what we are here for to talk, pass opinions about (or so I thought). I would have to disagree on the comparision between food in Rome & Alfredos's, although we do like Alfredos.

I am not comparing Alfredo's as a restaurant to the restaurants in Rome by any means, just as you said, only our experiences with both. My wife even commented on how similar the Fettuccini Alfredo and Bolognese sauce was. Given the number of negative comments, I highly doubt that Alfredo's could have consistently matched the experiences we had the past 2 years, or even the experience we had while dining in Rome. I actually warned my wife that, given the reviews I have read on DIS, we may not be so lucky when eat at Alfredo's again. Since they are no more we won't have to worry about it. But, it was just an example that some people’s experiences are different and thus give them a different opinion of Disney Dining. I haven’t dined at WDW enough to make a broad claim or generalization. My humble opinion just comes from the past 2 years of great vacations and good food and that’s all I have to go by, but is also one of many reasons we bought into DVC.