Why I Hate the DDP

[marivaid]

As to double booking, if you don't like that practice, jump in anytime when it is being discussed here and give heck to those that deserve it.[/B] [/SIZE]

Speaking of double boooking, I called to change an ADR earlier. The very nice lady on the phone informed me that they now cancel one of the reservations if you do that, and they also check names,resorts,check-in dates and party size so even if you give a different phone number you may very well get caught. She could have been pulling my leg, but I hope it's true.

 

[EyesandEarsJami]

I agree with what never enough has said and believe that he has several valid points.

I have two problems with the DDP personally. The first is that it has really hampered how I personally get to enjoy my vacation. I'm not a real big advance planner and usually go to disney 3-4 times a year as well. (Flights are cheap and/or I can make the quick 12 hour drive from my house.) With usually 3 weeks to 1.5 months advance planning. It's now become extremely hard to drop in and dine in a park at anything other than counter service. This really hurts my family because we're not really into eating fast food, or at least unhealthy fast food. So instead we're pretty much forced to pack in some healthy snacks for our visits.

My second and bigger issue is that my wife and I have noticed a considerable drop in the quality and quantity of menu offerings. It seems that the menus have now been simplied or dumbed down so much that almost every restaurant is the same, only with some very slight variations. What this means is that everyone who is on the DDP thinks that they are eating at a nice higher end restaurant with many options but they are actually just eating the same fare over and over again throughout the parks. With the subtraction of one or two signature items at each place, almost all the restaurants are the same now. And while the meals have been simplied and the quality lowered, the prices have increased and so has the crowd. So people think they are getting this great value when they really aren't. It's a great marketing ploy by disney, but it comes with a heavy expense. And it contributes to the downfall of the quality of disney. People really aren't "saving" as much as they think. And they definitely aren't eating in the same restaurants that they "couldn't afford" before. The names above the door might be the same, but they are definitely different restaurants now.

I see how some people really enjoy it. But personally I wish that it had never been created. Unfortunately I don't see it going away soon.

The funny thing is I enjoy it when we go to all-inclusive resorts in Mexico and Central America. But I go there knowing that they don't have great restaurants at the resorts that have gone down a notch because of the all-inclusive feature. I never had as high of an expectation there as I do (or did have) at disney.

 

[marivaid]

It's now become extremely hard to drop in and dine in a park at anything other than counter service.

SAME PROBLEM AT DISNEYLAND WHERE THERE IS NO DDP

I think it's got to be the 4th or 5th time it's been pointed out on this thread. I don't know why it's not registering.

 

[apostolic4life]

My second and bigger issue is that my wife and I have noticed a considerable drop in the quality and quantity of menu offerings. It seems that the menus have now been simplied or dumbed down so much that almost every restaurant is the same, only with some very slight variations. What this means is that everyone who is on the DDP thinks that they are eating at a nice higher end restaurant with many options but they are actually just eating the same fare over and over again throughout the parks. With the subtraction of one or two signature items at each place, almost all the restaurants are the same now. And while the meals have been simplied and the quality lowered, the prices have increased and so has the crowd. So people think they are getting this great value when they really aren't. It's a great marketing ploy by disney, but it comes with a heavy expense. And it contributes to the downfall of the quality of disney. People really aren't "saving" as much as they think. And they definitely aren't eating in the same restaurants that they "couldn't afford" before. The names above the door might be the same, but they are definitely different restaurants now.

Again, this train of thought requires us to believe all ills associated with WDW dining are a result of the DDP. I believe the truth of the matter lies in the overall corporate philosophy adopted by Disney. The perceived decline in quality and variety are not a result of the DDP; they are both results of a business model that homoginizes the WDW restaurants and allows the company to reduce the number of ingredients needed, which concentrates buying power and reduces waste. They basically have created a chain of restaurants that have similar menu offerings with the variety coming through cooking methods, seasonings, and recipes. The changes many have mentioned and the offering of the DDP both are a result of a company's decision to maximize profit.

I can't say I would expect anything less from the board of directors if I was a Disney shareholder.

We should not hate the DDP and blame everything on it's existence; the DDP is actually just the result of a choice made by the Disney figure-heads to make more money.

 

[TheDisneyGirl02]

I guess I never thought about the difference between people who pay OOP for TS or people who are on the DDP. I just assume that everybody who is there is there for a good meal and a good time. The same goes with people at CS meals. I'm looking forward to doing the dining plan this trip. It's never been the case that my family and I can't afford to eat TS everyday, it's just that we have decided not to in the past. I think the DDP is a good deal, but that's just me personally.

IMO, I think it's great that if a family saves money for years to go to WDW and they stay at a value resort, they can have the same opportunities to dine at WDW as the people who may stay at a moderate or deluxe. That family may not have the chance to return to WDW for years but the memories of the kids eating dinner with the characters and snacking on a Mickey Mouse ice cream bar on Main Street will last a lifetime.

I think Walt would be very pleased with the idea since he always intended for the Disney parks to be for all families, regardless of financial status.

 

[EyesandEarsJami]

We should not hate the DDP and blame everything on it's existence; the DDP is actually just the result of a choice made by the Disney figure-heads to make more money.

I'm not blaming everything on it's existence, only that it has contributed to some of the decline. It's also a smart move to make more money. And as a shareholder you've got to love that. However, that doesn't mean that I have to like it. There are many things that disney has done that makes fiscal sense. Unfortunately the fiscal measures taken often mean the disney suffers in guest services or guest experiences in one way or the other.

Again, my post wasn't a bash of the DDP. It was me simply stating that I don't like it personally. And for those reasons I would like to see it gone. But I know that isn't going to happen.

 

[apostolic4life]

IMO, I think it's great that if a family saves money for years to go to WDW and they stay at a value resort, they can have the same opportunities to dine at WDW as the people who may stay at a moderate or deluxe. That family may not have the chance to return to WDW for years but the memories of the kids eating dinner with the characters and snacking on a Mickey Mouse ice cream bar on Main Street will last a lifetime.

I think Walt would be very pleased with the idea since he always intended for the Disney parks to be for all families, regardless of financial status.

You have the right attitude. Thanks for the ray of sunshine!!

 

[ExPirateShopGirl]

lol... thank you for subsidizing my family's vacations!

Perfectly said....prices for out of pocket people have gone up so we can help pay for the DDP (not to mention free dining)...fair no but is it filling the restaurants? yes! People hold their breathe for months to get those ADRs in once they hit 180 days...forget about taking a last minute trip and expecting to eat.
We will never do the DDP and as long as it exists service will be poor and food quality will continue to go down the tubes......I hope you wore you hazmat suit after your post...Good Luck!

 

[apostolic4life]

I'm not blaming everything on it's existence, only that it has contributed to some of the decline. It's also a smart move to make more money. And as a shareholder you've got to love that. However, that doesn't mean that I have to like it. There are many things that disney has done that makes fiscal sense. Unfortunately the fiscal measures taken often mean the disney suffers in guest services or guest experiences in one way or the other.

Again, my post wasn't a bash of the DDP. It was me simply stating that I don't like it personally. And for those reasons I would like to see it gone. But I know that isn't going to happen.

I did not mean to imply you were blaming everything on the DDP.......sorry, I was just making a general statement about the overall theme of the whole thread. Again, sorry to seemingly point a finger in your direction.

 

[Amy&Dan]

SAME PROBLEM AT DISNEYLAND WHERE THERE IS NO DDP

I think it's got to be the 4th or 5th time it's been pointed out on this thread. I don't know why it's not registering.

Yep I was one of the ones who pointed that out way back on page 2 I think. I just called this night to make a ps at Disneyland (they still call them ps') and could not get what I wanted. Four weeks out at Disneyland which is nowhere near the dining experience that WDW is. I used to make them a day or two before or even the day of. Just like apparently a lot of you used to do at WDW. And the onsite hotels are completely sold out and have been for weeks. This at Disneyland where I used to make my DLH reservations sometimes less than one week before and get a darn good rate to boot. Its called marketing a product, and Disney has done a great job. Tourism is up all over the world, the Disney one and the planet one.

 

[Mkrop]

I guess I dont understand why some of us cant have dislikes about the DDP and be not criticized for it. I think it is a good idea of some fronts but I think it hinders for some. We used it will probably use it again but I do see flaws with it. Like I said before with kids I find it very hard to plan that way, I do plan but I feel with kids I need flexiblity.

I mean we alwasy get the park hoppers becuase if the park we choose in the morning gets too crowded we may leave and go somewhere else but soemtimes if the flow of the day is working for us and the kids we stay put. Well if I have a ADR at that first park, now I need to break our momentum and head back to that park for my ADR. That is not fun or magicial to me

I think there are certainly pros and a cons about it.

And if any of the powers that be do read these things maybe they will see that some are dissatisfied with how SOME of the DDP is run. I mean maybe there does need to be a balance between walkins and ADRs.

And we are one of those families that satyed deluxe but use the DDP, it helped us save money so we could stay in a Deluxe. So it is all good.

 

[Disney8704]

What I dont like is people judging people. If someone is staying at a value resort, it doesnt mean they are poor. If someone is staying at a deluxe, doesnt mean they are rich. I have stayed both value and deluxe and NEVER have been on the DDP. I've stayed at GF twice, both times, views of the castle. Easily spent over $3000 alone on the room. Does that mean Im rich? NO. It's called SAVING. DH and I are staying at AKL and are not on the DDP and we are gonna be eating most days 2 TS - breakfast and dinner and 1 CS for lunch. Most of the breakfasts are gonna cost us about $40 - $50 (buffets), while all our dinners are no less then $50, and even have dinners going up to almost $100 (CRT). Once again, you might read that and say well, your rich you can afford that. Nope sorry, once again, its called saving. You know the expression, never judge a book by its cover. Never judge a person where they are staying or dinning. As for making multiple ADRs. If thats what I wanna do, I will do it. I wont make 2 ADRs for the same time frame for 1 day, but unlike a lot of others, I dont get to go often, for 2 reasons. Money and DH being in the military.

 

[gina2000]

I'm always baffled when people say that the DDP hasn't contributed to the change/decline (you pick the verb) in menus. It's virtually impossible for a restaurant to produce an innovative, creative meal without free reign in the kitchen. That translates into no price controls. Yes, WDW may be on a streamlining/cost control kick, but offering the DDP is part of that package. They can afford to offer the DDP because they have streamlined menu offerings. They can afford to offer the DDP because they have reduced portion sizes and reduced expensive/exotic (you pick the adjective) ingredients. The streamlining goes hand in hand with the DDP. It may not be the only cause for the change but the DDP goes hand in hand with the causes.

Let's face it, if the OOP patron wasn't willing to pay WDW restaurant prices BEFORE the advent of the DDP, they certainly aren't now. Portions have been streamlined, food has become less signature to the restaurant's theme and menus have been dumbed down in terms of quality/ingredients. It's the DDP patron by and large filling the restaurants. That's a good thing for WDW. But if the DDP changes enough to discourage the patrons, the restaurants will be half empty again with higher prices and lower quality. And I do believe they will rachet up the prices one way or another just as they have rachetted down the cost in order to make the DDP profitable.

 

[Tinkerbell24]

I guess I dont understand why some of us cant have dislikes about the DDP and be not criticized for it. I think it is a good idea of some fronts but I think it hinders for some. We used it will probably use it again but I do see flaws with it. Like I said before with kids I find it very hard to plan that way, I do plan but I feel with kids I need flexiblity.

I mean we alwasy get the park hoppers becuase if the park we choose in the morning gets too crowded we may leave and go somewhere else but soemtimes if the flow of the day is working for us and the kids we stay put. Well if I have a ADR at that first park, now I need to break our momentum and head back to that park for my ADR. That is not fun or magicial to me

I think there are certainly pros and a cons about it.

And if any of the powers that be do read these things maybe they will see that some are dissatisfied with how SOME of the DDP is run. I mean maybe there does need to be a balance between walkins and ADRs.

And we are one of those families that satyed deluxe but use the DDP, it helped us save money so we could stay in a Deluxe. So it is all good.

I don't think people are saying that you are not entitled to your dislikes, because as you said, there are pros and cons. IMO, the reason people are getting angry because some people are putting down those that get the DDP and labeling them (who knows as what, but not good) and blaming those people. I think people need to realize that it is a way that families can afford a vacation and to dine...regardless!

 

[Mkrop]

I don't think people are saying that you are not entitled to your dislikes, because as you said, there are pros and cons. IMO, the reason people are getting angry because some people are putting down those that get the DDP and labeling them (who knows as what, but not good) and blaming those people. I think people need to realize that it is a way that families can afford a vacation and to dine...regardless!

I agree but I guess I did not get that when I read all the posts here. I did not even get the attack on the one poster but if she/he said something that was offensive I guess it went over my head.

I was addressing the general gist of the thread that if you are not a planner and heaven forbid that you arent then it is your fault if you are SOL on dining.

I am a planner and I plan most of my trip but I dont think that me or anyone else who is uninformed (like my freind going for a day trip) should be shut out entirely. They should be able to experience the magic as well.

I mean some like to do the parks commando and some take it slower and it is all good for them, my issue is that I think the DDP has allowed some people opporutnities that they may have not had before and that is wonderful but I think it has shut out others that either dont want to or cant plan every meal on every day. I wish there was more balance. I mean we cant plan our trips very far in advance because of DH's work so we are always planned for at the most 2 months ahead, so we are suddenly at a disadvantage dining wise.

I used the DDP, will probably use it again, and I will work with how my family likes to vacation to make it work for us. I just see a lot of flaws that could be remedied!

 

[KikiFan]

The DDP has it's pro's and con's. I prefer to be more spontaneous when it comes to vacation. But I'm willing to sacrifice that for the convenience of having all my meals paid for in advance.

What I really wish is that Disney would come up some sort of a tiered system on the DDP. Maybe create a catagory for people that only want to eat at CS with perhaps a few TS meals. That way people that wanted to be spontaneous but still have a budget would have an option. And it might ease up the overcrowding at TS.

 

[Marion]

I'll admit I just scanned a lot of this debate and realize that it's destined to become just as hot a topic as pool hopping and resort mugs! I'm going to wade in with my .02 anyway I think what is irritating me the MOST is this attitude amongst some fellow guests that the DDP is some sort of Disney World charity... or soup kitchen. Comments about paying oop vs being on the dining plan. What IS that? I've booked my package, 8 months in advance, complete with DDP. Guess what? I'm now oop $532 US for my meals. The main difference being I've paid my money... out of my pocket btw... BEFORE our holiday instead of having to bother our silly little heads with carrying cc's/cash/travellers cheques into the parks with us. This is a typical resort sort of thing. When I go on a cruise ship, I have paid for everything ahead of time. If I book an all inclusive resort in Cuba or Mexico, I've paid for everything (inc all meals) in advance. DDP... same thing!

I have to admit, the notion of planning my meals 6 months in advance did seem a little weird. Especially for someone who has never laid eyes on DW since 1981. I got over it and in the end had a wonderful time planning (rather loosely mind you, but which parks, what day etc). I made my adrs at 5 months and got everything I asked for, even times. Perhaps not being used to any other way of visiting DW has made this easier for me than some of you frequent guests.

At any rate, one expects to have to make reservations for a busy restaurant. You don't expect to just show up at the front desk of a resort, bags in hand and ask if they have a room at the inn for you. From all of my extensive reading, it seems DW really has no slow times anymore, so it would follow that the parks have more people in them and those people are all going to want to eat and, voila, the restaurants book up solid. This doesn't neccessarily mean it's the fault of the DDP.

For us personally the DDP will be wonderful. No stress, we know where we'll be eating, we don't have to carry cash or cc. I have no intention of changing our eating habits so after playing with the menus and doing the math we'll be pretty much at the break even point... no 40% savings for us! But that's not the point... the point is the convenience.

And for all you guests who are now making me feel like a second class citizen for using the DDP, quit raining on my magic darnit!! Have a lovely day

 

[apostolic4life]

And I do believe they will rachet up the prices one way or another just as they have rachetted down the cost in order to make the DDP profitable.

You make many good points, but I do not think the quality and variety changes were a result of the DDP. I believe the DDP was part of an overall plan on the part or Disney to increase the traffic in the largely under-utilized table service restaurants in WDW. The DDP was the catalyst chosen by Disney to increase the guest attendance at WDW TS restaurants; the homoginization of the of the menus and loss of variety were (IMHO) planned prior to the institution of the DDP to maximize the profit. I bet the decline would have taken place even if the DDP was not instituted. In theory, they could have dramatically cut rack rates for resort stays to accomplish the increased traffic, but it was more appealing to market a dining plan because more people would percieve "value" in getting something extra (food) at reduced rates. As I said, I believe the changes were not a result of the DDP but rather the DDP facilitated the increased traffic so they could institute an already planned homoginization of the dining venues.

Of course, it is only speculation based on my experience in the food industry and I have no documentaion from offical sources stating the plan I have suggested. Just my humble thoughts on the matter.

 

[apostolic4life]

...I have been very pleased with the food at WDW both before and after the DDP. As for variety, I think it is becoming less pronounced from venue to venue. You have a filet mignon at almost every restaurant and they are only different because of the sauces used to plate them. Overall, even though variety is not as grand, the food quality is still better than everyday big box chains.

 

[gina2000]

...I have been very pleased with the food at WDW both before and after the DDP. As for variety, I think it is becoming less pronounced from venue to venue. You have a filet mignon at almost every restaurant and they are only different because of the sauces used to plate them. Overall, even though variety is not as grand, the food quality is still better than everyday big box chains.

Two things......I do agree with you that the DDP didn't cause the dumbing down of the restaurant menu....I do believe it was a hand-in-hand effort. I suspect the problem was tackled by WDW execs trying to A) cut cost and B) get many more people into the restaurants. B could only occur if A happened. And both would result in more people walking through WDW restaurant doors. They could not accomplish that through slashing rack rates at WDW resorts. This promo ties dining to resort occupancy so it's good points are two fold....getting the patron to stay onsite and getting the patron to eat at TS restaurants. Discounts on hotel rooms only accomplish half of that goal.

And while I do think that WDW restaurants are on par with and slightly above big box restaurant chain food (love that term!), the price OOP is ridiculous as compared to a restaurant chain even adding the so-called 20% premium for location, location, location. The pricing is much more on par with DDP even without the tip (see, I'm giving you 18%).

But, I think the bottom line is if it works for you, use it. If it doesn't, find something that does. I think those of us who have been to WDW for years and have used TS restaurants see a huge difference. We don't matter right now. So be it.