Why I Hate the DDP

[marivaid]

I often see people on the DIS telling other people that they should be on the DDP to save money on food cost. But they're not realizing the true cost of the DDP.

With DDP
DDP for two adults: $78/day
WL Woods View Rack Rate: $240/night
Total: $318/day

Without DDP
WL Woods View Discount Rate: $179/night

Difference: $139/day

The DDP was not created for AP holders. That's rather obvious since you need to give up your AP discount in order to get the DDP.

The majority of guests don't have APs.

You forgot a couple things on your calculations :

1/ The cost of the AP - you had to pay for it at some point
2/ With the DDP your total includes food. So there's not really a $139/day difference unless you don't intend to spend a cent on food during your stay.

 

[Katiebell]

The DDP was not created for AP holders. That's rather obvious since you need to give up your AP discount in order to get the DDP.

The majority of guests don't have APs.

You forgot a couple things on your calculations :

1/ The cost of the AP - you had to pay for it at some point
2/ With the DDP your total includes food. So there's not really a $139/day difference unless you don't intend to spend a cent on food during your stay.

This totally cracked me up because I totally missed it, and it's really pretty obvious, isn't it? Yep, if you don't get the DDP, then you still do have to spend something on food, huh?

It's really simple. Setting everything else aside: whether or not it's a hassle to get ADR's, whether or not it's "too much food" and you never order dessert -- if you will spend at least $40/day on site on food per adult, not including alcohol but including tax and tips on TS meals -- then you will at least break even on the dining plan. And if you check your receipts, it's really not hard to spend $40/day.

11:30 am CS lunch at Tusker House -- $8 (no dessert)
soda with lunch -- $2
3:00 pm Dole Whip float -- $4
7:00 pm dinner at 'Ohana -- $26
tax for whole day -- $2.80
tip for 'Ohana -- $5.00
total for day -- $47.80

11:30 am CS lunch at Columbia Harbor House -- $7 (no dessert)
soda with lunch -- $2
2:00 pm Mickey Bar -- $2.50
7:00 pm dinner at Concourse Steak House:
salad (appetizer) -- $5.50
Prime Rib -- $21
Key Lime Pie -- $5.50
soda -- $2
tax for whole day -- $3.19
tip for Concourse -- $6.00
total for day -- $54.69

The dining plan costs $39/day per adult. These daily menus are not unusual, nor are they huge, ridiculous amounts of food. One CS meal, a snack, and one TS meal. I didn't even calculate dessert with lunch, and for dinner, I didn't pick the most expensive restaurants or the most extravagant menu items -- the Prime Rib at Concourse is $21, but there is a filet on the menu for $27. I didn't list any breakfast, but you could swap out the afternoon snack for a bagel or fresh fruit cup at the food court with a refillable mug of coffee for a light breakfast. Still a very reasonable amount of food for one adult, especially for one adult who is probably walking 10 miles a day!

If you are a DVC member and cook in your room, or if you brought your own car and plan on going offsite, then YMMV. But if you are staying onsite, took the ME from the airport so you aren't going anywhere else, and you can't/don't want to cook in your room -- the dining plan is actually a very good deal. Yes, you have to make ADR's for TS restaurants if you want to be sure not to waste those credits. But everyone has to make ADR's now if they want to eat in any TS restaurants at all, whether or not they are on the dining plan. It's just the way things are now, and not likely to change -- the restaurants are busy, full, booked solid, and Disney likes it that way.

Can you eat cheaper than $40/day? Yes. But you have to be willing to eat a lot more CS (nothing wrong with that if it's what you prefer, WDW has some great CS places), and it does require a bit of advance planning, too, if you want to keep your costs below that $40 mark.

 

[Tinkerbell24]

This totally cracked me up because I totally missed it, and it's really pretty obvious, isn't it? Yep, if you don't get the DDP, then you still do have to spend something on food, huh?

It's really simple. Setting everything else aside: whether or not it's a hassle to get ADR's, whether or not it's "too much food" and you never order dessert -- if you will spend at least $40/day on site on food per adult, not including alcohol but including tax and tips on TS meals -- then you will at least break even on the dining plan. And if you check your receipts, it's really not hard to spend $40/day.

11:30 am CS lunch at Tusker House -- $8 (no dessert)
soda with lunch -- $2
3:00 pm Dole Whip float -- $4
7:00 pm dinner at 'Ohana -- $26
tax for whole day -- $2.80
tip for 'Ohana -- $5.00
total for day -- $47.80

11:30 am CS lunch at Columbia Harbor House -- $7 (no dessert)
soda with lunch -- $2
2:00 pm Mickey Bar -- $2.50
7:00 pm dinner at Concourse Steak House:
salad (appetizer) -- $5.50
Prime Rib -- $21
Key Lime Pie -- $5.50
soda -- $2
tax for whole day -- $3.19
tip for Concourse -- $6.00
total for day -- $54.69

The dining plan costs $39/day per adult. These daily menus are not unusual, nor are they huge, ridiculous amounts of food. One CS meal, a snack, and one TS meal. I didn't even calculate dessert with lunch, and for dinner, I didn't pick the most expensive restaurants or the most extravagant menu items -- the Prime Rib at Concourse is $21, but there is a filet on the menu for $27. I didn't list any breakfast, but you could swap out the afternoon snack for a bagel or fresh fruit cup at the food court with a refillable mug of coffee for a light breakfast. Still a very reasonable amount of food for one adult, especially for one adult who is probably walking 10 miles a day!

If you are a DVC member and cook in your room, or if you brought your own car and plan on going offsite, then YMMV. But if you are staying onsite, took the ME from the airport so you aren't going anywhere else, and you can't/don't want to cook in your room -- the dining plan is actually a very good deal. Yes, you have to make ADR's for TS restaurants if you want to be sure not to waste those credits. But everyone has to make ADR's now if they want to eat in any TS restaurants at all, whether or not they are on the dining plan. It's just the way things are now, and not likely to change -- the restaurants are busy, full, booked solid, and Disney likes it that way.

Can you eat cheaper than $40/day? Yes. But you have to be willing to eat a lot more CS (nothing wrong with that if it's what you prefer, WDW has some great CS places), and it does require a bit of advance planning, too, if you want to keep your costs below that $40 mark.

exactly how we think when we get the dining plan! It definately pays off as long as you use all of them!

 

[mickeyfan2]

The DDP was not created for AP holders. That's rather obvious since you need to give up your AP discount in order to get the DDP.

The majority of guests don't have APs.

You forgot a couple things on your calculations :

1/ The cost of the AP - you had to pay for it at some point
2/ With the DDP your total includes food. So there's not really a $139/day difference unless you don't intend to spend a cent on food during your stay.

I agree that it was not intended for APers. I have an AP and am not upset by not having the DDP.

I dispute your comment #1. The comparison did not include park admission, so the cost of the AP is not included. We do 3 10 day trips with our APS, so it is cheap.

Your comment #2 is spot on. But spending $139/day for two adults for food is where the comparision should be made. We would never do a sit-down every day. We do them every 3 days. So we are better off without the DDP.




Not getting an ADR because others book and then don't show is not a result of the DDP. It is inconsiderate guests who only care about having multiple ADRs who are to blame. We will cancel and ADR as soon as we know we cannot make it. I understand not being able to make it, but please cancel the ADR.

We returned on 5/21 and one afternoon just walked into the Brown Derby and at lunch. So yes you can get walk-ins, just not at every meal and especially for character meals. We did get an ADR for lunch at the Garden Grill the night before.

 

[marivaid]

I dispute your comment #1. The comparison did not include park admission, so the cost of the AP is not included.

True, but park admission is not required to stay at a WDW resort. On the other hand, an AP is required to get the AP rate.

We will cancel and ADR as soon as we know we cannot make it. I understand not being able to make it, but please cancel the ADR.

Totally agree. I have 11 ADRs and we will probably not go to 2 of them, if we decide not to go I will call and cancel as early as possible. Even if it's too late for someone to get your ADR, that means a walk-in may get that table, or another party may be seated early.

This totally cracked me up because I totally missed it, and it's really pretty obvious, isn't it? Yep, if you don't get the DDP, then you still do have to spend something on food, huh?

Your comment #2 is spot on. But spending $139/day for two adults for food is where the comparision should be made

It made me laugh because I did the exact same thing when planning our trip. I told DM, look if we get an AP and cancel the DDP, we can stay at BWI instead of ASMU *and* save $400 !! I was all proud of myself 'til DM told me that we'd still have to pay for food eventually. DUH.

ETA : We spent about $80-$90 on food per day during the OOP part of our stay. One thing I learned on that first trip : food costs add up FAST at Disney!!
Where else would we spend $50 on breakfast ?

 

[Stinky_Pete]

If we all had AP's your scenario would be 100% accurate.

There are other discounts that make someone ineligible for the DDP so my scenario can be applied in other situations too. For example, there is another thread were someone was asking about her food budget for her upcoming trip. A bunch of people jumped in and posted "Oh, well you should get the DDP! You'll save so much money, etc." Well it turns out that she was getting a discount that couldn't be combined with the DDP. The AP discount just happens to be the one that I will hopefully be eligible for.

You forgot a couple things on your calculations:

1/ The cost of the AP - you had to pay for it at some point
2/ With the DDP your total includes food. So there's not really a $139/day difference unless you don't intend to spend a cent on food during your stay.

Let's take #2 first

Difference: $139/day

Under the above scenario the DDP actually "costs" $69.50 per day for each of us. There will be very few days that we will spend more than that on food OOP.

I guess I should have been a little clearer here. I can save $139 per day on my room without getting the DDP. My point was that I would have to pay an average of that much on food each day to make the DDP "worth it" for my situation. I know food at WDW is expensive, but that's $1,112 for two people for 8 days. Even adding in alcohol (which is OOP on DDP) we're not going to come close to spending that kind of money on food.

And as for #1 - no I didn't forget about the cost of the AP. Doesn't everyone pay park admission when they go to WDW? I know I will be.

Again, my only point is that the DDP is not the be-all-and-end-all that some people make it out to be - it is not necessarily a good value for everyone. I would actually like to take advantage of it on my trip, but it doesn't make financial sense in my situation. If no AP discounts are released for my travel dates I will probably try to convert my room only ressie to a package and purchase the DDP because then it would be a good value for me. I just want to provide a balance so people might think for a moment if the DDP is really the best value in their situation that some of its vocal boosters here on the DIS insist it is.

 

[Stinky_Pete]

Here's another example where people are recommending the DDP for someone that it is inappropiate for:

http://www.disboards.com/showthread.php?t=1468306

 

[marivaid]

And as for #1 - no I didn't forget about the cost of the AP. Doesn't everyone pay park admission when they go to WDW?

In that case, if you were to do a truly accurate comparison you would need to add the cost of park admission in both cases.

Again, my only point is that the DDP is not the be-all-and-end-all that some people make it out to be - it is not necessarily a good value for everyone.

We all agree on that.
I haven't seen one post on this thread that stated the DDP was a good value for everyone.

 

[fairestoneofall]

We have not done the DDP. We wanted to on our last trip, but we stayed at SOG and thus, could not.

However, I still make my ADRs for where I would like to eat 180 days in advance. Why? Because that's what I have to do if I want to eat at certain places. And that's fine with me.

And we had excellent service on our last trip. All of our servers at the TS restaurants were excellent and more than accommodating.

For many CS meals, DH and I split our meal because there was enough food to do so. Yes, at one point I did want my own meal and not to share. But, for the most part, we split and I was not hungry when done.

I think service is hit and miss anywhere. You can go to the same restaurant two days in a row and have completely different experiences.

ETA: I think you should also treat others how you wish to be treated. We walked up to CP two years ago on a last-minute trip. The man in front of me was rude and nasty as he asked if there was any availability. He was turned away. I was extremely polite and gracious and inquired if I had heard correctly that there was no availability. The CM asked how many were in my party and we were seated within 20 minutes. It pays to be kind and gracious.

 

[Sammie]

Stinky Pete is correct in that the DDP is not a good fit for every one.

The reason I think that these threads become heated at times, is that some think their "opinions" are fact.

We like the DDP, it works for us. For anyone to say that the DDP has ruined Disney dining is pure opinion, there is NO fact to it at all.

For one thing, what is "ruined" Just because a certain item has been removed with no proof that the DDP caused that to happen, does not mean it ruined it for someone that did not care for the item removed.

As to packed restuarants, many of those packing the restuarants are off site guests without the DDP so again this is an area that there are NO facts.

As to service, there is absolutely no fact that the DDP has caused poor service. Poor service has been around since the beginning of time, some people care about their jobs and others don't. They might blame the DDP for their lack of a good work ethic but it is simply an excuse not the reason.

We got great service using the DDP. Also everyone needs to remember to take what CMs share with them with a grain of salt. Disney has 55,000 employees, some union, some not and each has their own agenda and many times they use the guests to promote that agenda knowing they will come back to forums such as these and repeat what they were told. I would be careful what I take as policy.

Basically it comes down to this, at this time at Disney, the DDP is available. If you don't want it for whatever reason no one is forcing it on you.

 

[Dreamfinder2]

...taking a break at work to catch up on this wonderfully entertaining thread.

I think the best all-around bang for your buck is as a Disney Vacation Club member. Your vacation lodging is pre-paid and inflation proof (except for dues); you are eligible for a hefty discount on an annual pass; and as an annual passholder, you're eligible for the Disney Dining Experience card. We've done this very thing.

I still like the DDP, though, and readily admit that it might not be for everyone. We haven't experienced any slippage in service; maybe we're just extraordinarily lucky. When we were down this past week (and inspired by this thread!) I tried to take special notice of the service or lack thereof. Nary a glitch. AND, we made our ADRs about two months out. The only place I wanted that I couldn't get at an appropriate time was Coral Reef.

Boy. This is all very much an "eye of the beholder" issue, isn't it?

I might just add that when our server at 'Ohana asked if we were on the Disney Dining Plan, I sort of grinned and said, "Isn't everyone?" She just smiled back and said, "actually, no. Probably about a thrid."

Whether that was subjective or objective on her part, I thought that was interesting.

 

[NMW]

I never called anyone names so please stop right there.

I disagree that people can eat a FULL breakfast, appetizer, entree and dessert for lunch and and appetizer, entree and dessert for dinner PLUS a snack for their entire vacation. Maybe for one or two days but that would be impossible to mantain. So yes I find it unbelievable.

If you meant 3 times a day plus a snack, yes normal people do that but that is not what you said. You said three FULL meals and that is NOT what normal people eat every day.

I have to disagree with you. My family every day at Disney (whether we had a dining plan or not) eats a TS breakfast. We usually do CS lunch and every night we eat a TS dinner. I fail to see why this is so completely unbelievable!!!! The snack credits we use for bottled water or a soda.

For your information, none of us are over weight. In fact, my sons are pretty skinny and my oldest wants to GAIN weight. We eat an early TS breakfast-usually between 8-8:30 and a pretty late TS dinner-7:30-8:30 PM. My boys are usually starving for a CS lunch around 1-1:30. Even my 5 year old DD can polish off some lunch. I fail to see how that make us freaks or something. We all eat 3 meals a day at home too Usually around the same times since my kids do sports and have practices/games at night. A lot of nights during football season, I don't even walk in the door until 8:15.

Just because you couldn't or wouldn't want to eat this way, doesn't mean it doesn't work for other families.

 

[KKB]

I never called anyone names so please stop right there.

I disagree that people can eat a FULL breakfast, appetizer, entree and dessert for lunch and and appetizer, entree and dessert for dinner PLUS a snack for their entire vacation. Maybe for one or two days but that would be impossible to mantain. So yes I find it unbelievable.

If you meant 3 times a day plus a snack, yes normal people do that but that is not what you said. You said three FULL meals and that is NOT what normal people eat every day.

To say that is NOT what normal people eat...so I guess those that do are NOT normal??!!

I'm confident there are many NORMAL people who eat that much each day. Just because it may not be what you might eat, or even anyone you know, does NOT make it abnormal. Thank goodness we all have many different degrees of normal.

Obviously you have not vacationed with "normal" teenagers....

 

[TMB1203]

I think the best all-around bang for your buck is as a Disney Vacation Club member. Your vacation lodging is pre-paid and inflation proof (except for dues); you are eligible for a hefty discount on an annual pass; and as an annual passholder, you're eligible for the Disney Dining Experience card.

I agree! We have been DVC since 2001 and we have already paid for our points with the trips we have taken (but no where near the amount of trips you have, I'm jealous )

We did the DDP for the first time this past Feb. and really liked it. We are doing it again when we go back in November.

 

[Pumbaa_]

Just a reminder, please keep your posts friendly folks - no name calling! Opinions are great and we all have different priorities and styles of dining. No judgements please!

 

[Katiebell]

To say that is NOT what normal people eat...so I guess those that do are NOT normal??!!

I'm confident there are many NORMAL people who eat that much each day. Just because it may not be what you might eat, or even anyone you know, does NOT make it abnormal. Thank goodness we all have many different degrees of normal.

Obviously you have not vacationed with "normal" teenagers....

Um...excuse me, but...as a mother of three sons, and having observed all their friends as well, I can say for sure that many "normal" teenage boys eat SIX full meals a day, plus snacks

 

[NEVERENOUGHWDW]

I have to disagree with you. My family every day at Disney (whether we had a dining plan or not) eats a TS breakfast. We usually do CS lunch and every night we eat a TS dinner. I fail to see why this is so completely unbelievable!!!! The snack credits we use for bottled water or a soda.

For your information, none of us are over weight. In fact, my sons are pretty skinny and my oldest wants to GAIN weight. We eat an early TS breakfast-usually between 8-8:30 and a pretty late TS dinner-7:30-8:30 PM. My boys are usually starving for a CS lunch around 1-1:30. Even my 5 year old DD can polish off some lunch. I fail to see how that make us freaks or something. We all eat 3 meals a day at home too Usually around the same times since my kids do sports and have practices/games at night. A lot of nights during football season, I don't even walk in the door until 8:15.

Just because you couldn't or wouldn't want to eat this way, doesn't mean it doesn't work for other families.

Pediatrican's also claim 3 meals a day for kids......now it can be 1/2 sanwich or a bowl of soup but I have a hard time imagining teen boys that don't even more than that a day......not calling this a weight issue at all.......perhaps you don't teen boys but they are athelits and burn as quick as it goes down.....

 

[DisneyBride'03]

Let's all drink, eat and be merry

 

[Chrissie-riel]

Well, I have just spent the last few days reading this whole thread. My eyes are burning! Good info for all and I found it quite entertaining. Here are some of my thoughts......

Totally agree with those of you who mentioned the big box restaurant mentality that has infused the WDW menus lately. Honestly, is Disney F&B department any different than the corporate offices of Darden Restaurants? (Darden operates Red Lobster, Bahama Breeze, Smokey Bones BBQ, etc.) You have a corporate officer arranging pricing with many different suppliers for things such as lettuce, ketchup, etc. and buying in bulk. Then each individual restaurant uses those bulk items for all their menus. Some venues have specialty items that get ordered seperately, but overall you will find the same basic items at a Red Lobster in NY and Birmingham, AL. So, if we compare WDW restaurants overall to the big box chains - I prefer the dining quality at WDW.

Disney never does anything without looking at the bottom line, so the DDP must work for them in that area. They get our money upfront (except when the DDP is FREE - yay!) and a guaranteed revenue. However, one thing that can hurt them about this is rising food costs EVERYWHERE. My family owns a mom and pop Italian restaurant, and we have been going crazy lately with food costs. Remember that big freeze in Jan/Feb? Oranges and tomatoes went through the roof! We have also been warned repeatedly about the rising cost of beef - guaranteed that I will be ordering a steak on the dining plan! I know that Disney won't be losing money like our mom and pop restaurant, but it will eat into their profit margin.

Finally, regarding not being able to make ressies at the last minute. It's OK for me since I am a Disney veteran and a proud DISer, and I know when to look at my calendar. But, I have to shake my heads at the CRO CM's who keep selling the DDP without fully explaining it. EX....My neighbor finally decided to do her "once in a lifetime" trip to WDW. I walked her through the initial planning stages and she made her reservations for room, tix and bought into the DDP - the CM told her specifically to call back on a certain day so that she could get her CRT ressies done. A week after she made the CRT ressies, I asked her where else she was eating. She was like, "HUH?" She had no clue that she needed to do anything else!?! So, we had another planning session to iron out the food situation. I can't imagine how many other newbies are out there buying the dining plan because it sounds good when CRO sells it....and then arriving at WDW without all their reservations, and trying to walk up at the TS restaurants to use their credits!! That would definitely make for an unhappy guest!

 

[paintnolish]

I hate the ddp becuase it led to me eating a whole "2 cookie 3 scoops of icecream" icecream sandwhich at the Main St Bakery...oh...not good...I felt like I had eaten a brick. Really, though, on a day to day basis, I eat heathfully and don't mind splurging at WDW. I think it is an excellent value, even when not free, and I don't mind making reservations at all.