Why dont people plan?

[bumbershoot]

I did find out it was some sort of promotion through their credit card that they bought the tickets. Now it was more of buy 3 days get 2 free for VIPs of Visa or whatever credit card they used. It absolutely didn't translate to any advantage in the parks at all just like I told them.

That's actually really interesting. I swear that people have mentioned these magical VIP passes throughout the years here, and this is the first time I've seen any sort of answer to what those might have been.

It is funny you mention the actors in our past 3 trips they were filming commercials and there was quite a few skipping around. I remember this one day that was really hot outside and they keep having to stop to apply more make up and clean the sweat . I might have to hire a crew our next Disney trip just so my hair looks somewhat manageable.

Ha!

I remember reading about Jennifer Aniston and Brad Pitt's wedding (while planning our wedding), and she had her hair stylist there on the spot for her, to periodically adjust her hair and veil. Given that she wore her hair down and had a decent sized veil, I can understand it! (and by the way I do not think she was being a prima donna about it (or however you spell it), because I WANTED a hair stylist to do that for me...and realizing that it might take that level of dedication to look good throughout the day caused me to realize I should have my hair up AND I shouldn't wear the veil all day)

If only we could all have entourages.

I wore a beige Mickey baseball cap to Disneyland once; thought I looked quite adorable! Midday I took a look at myself in the bathroom mirror, and there was a huge band of sweat all around the cap part of the hat and an inch out onto the brim. UGH. YUCK. No more cotton baseball caps!!!!! Where was my entourage????

 

[LVSWL]

Recently a friend of mine asked me to help her friends plan their trip. They have been to WDW before, but not since MDE & magic bands, and they were taking their grandchildren and son-in-law who were first timers. Each word of advice I gave was met with "oh we aren't going to do that". I did my best to offer advice about making their dining ressies (they want character meals) SOON and how to set up their fast passes, but I think most of it fell on deaf ears.

We also treated some friends a few years back to a trip with us. They constantly said "you are the disney expert, we don't care what we do" but once there had a LOT of opinions about why we were doing things a certain way. It was an Easter trip, with park closures each day and we really had to follow a plan so we didn't get shut out of the parks or miss our dining reservations, but explaining that to people is near impossible. I love WDW, but many times a person with a little bit of knowledge is a dangerous thing because they know EVERYTHING....lol!

 

[bumbershoot]

*Sigh* Please tell me how to convince my DH to go to NYC. I would LOVE to go there. He on the other hand would rather move to Disney, than go to NYC... lol.

What about going on your own or with a friend?

Point 1) LOL!!! Are you really equating tickets to a Jimmy Buffet concert to an 'Ohana ADR???

Why not? It's all about "things an individual really wants to do".

Point 3) But just a few years ago everything was possible, and more simple.
Heck at one point there were no ASR's.

MOre than a few years ago. Our first WDW trip was in 2010 and there were ADRs and it was crowded and we had to plan.

Point 2) I disagree... Shorter booking times would be better. It's ludicrous to know what one wants for lunch six months from now.

They tried it, and it didn't go well.

I don't need to know WHAT I want for lunch, though since we generally have one choice from the menu, to choose a restaurant is choosing what we're having. But I still don't have an issue with it. I'm not 5; I don't have to desperately crave something in order to eat it on a certain day. I like the tofu noodle bowl, and will almost certainly enjoy it on a given day 180 days or so out, so I choose the day that works best for DHS and make that HBD ADR. And from that point on I anticipate that day and look forward to it! It's a shift in thinking. Makes it happier.

Then, well I thought about renting a car but didnt know what side of the road they drove on. And, do you know what kind of money they use?

I'm in pain.

People get so upset they don't get a BOG reservation but why if they don't KNOW they will love it? BTW it was the worst and most disappointing lunch ever at WDW.

I'm sorry you didn't like it. We've enjoyed the things we've had for both lunch and dinner. Maybe try their vegetarian options (which includes both soups)? Haven't yet had a dud (though we haven't had the veggie entree...the soups, some salads, and the quiche, yum).

I was going to take my daughter for a short trip at the end of August, and she told me not to bother...that I spent too much time on my phone planning and that had made it much less fun than when we first started going together in 2009 before FP+. I felt horrible that I had let planning get in the way of the fun (at least from my daughter's perspective). So there is a definite downside to the planning as well. Because I hate crowds and standing in line so much, I probably overplanned the amount we'd have to experience either of these. Maybe we need to go with the flow a little more, with a little less planning. If the line is too long for a ride we can decide to skip it that trip, or if crowds are too great, we can splurge on hoppers and go somewhere else or just go back to the hotel and relax. The point is to have fun, and it appears the overplanning took the fun away for both of us. Lesson learned the hard way.

She's going based on the huge trip you planned out? I hope you're talking to her more. Talking about the differences between trying to make a first timer's trip magical when their dad is refusing to listen, and to keep a big group happy, vs taking "veterans" there on a small 2-person trip.

And did it ruin the experience *for you*? Could she maybe have seen your tension over trying to make things perfect, and maybe came to the conclusion that you had no fun? Your post didn't sound like you had no fun. If she doesn't realize that, finding out might be good.

Because you have to tread lightly when friends and family are involved I couldn't sat too much when she returned and said she had a Terrible time.

Maybe create a buddy trip for the two of you. Show her the fun side.

 

[lovethattink]

We don't plan much, but we're at a park all the time. I make the 3 FP+, but more times than not, I cancel one or more of them because it's just doesn't work with where we are or what we're doing.

 

[bumbershoot]

That's true, but when you are living outside USA, you get nothing! I am living in Germany, and you get no informations about most of this! No Magic Bands, no planning DVD.....
And a lot of People in the parks are from around the Word! Don't forget this.....

But surely you're planning the trip already, so of course you would look into things on the WDW website. When I go to Europe, I read books, I look at info, I google "things to do in Dublin", etc etc. I assume it's the same going the other way?

Disneyland doesn't have this problem though, do they?

What problem?

Here's part of the silliness IMO...
I have read posts here concerning booking deadlines, and the question was "does the booking window open at midnight, or 7 am 180 days out?"

MG

That's not silly; it's a valid question that Disney should answer in the same "breath" they use to say "180 days out". The silly part is that they don't get that specific.

If you prefer not planning anything at all, you can show up in the morning at Disneyland without having decided which theme park you're visiting, and have a great time!

I can't. We've tried; it's not fun. We are a quality-quantity family; we want to do a lot and have fun doing a lot. We don't want to do a lot and have no fun, and we don't want to do a little, even if we have fun, because at the end of the day we feel let down if we did too little. That's how we work. Showing up and tossing the dice about what park we enter generally ends up in a do-little-and-argue-about-what-little-we're-doing sort of day, which isn't fun for any of us.

ADRs are available at the sit-down restaurants, but people don't obsess about those as much out here.

Blue Bayou? Carthay Circle? I've even been shut out of Wine Country Trattoria without a huge wait, which no one wants ot do if they are interested in walking up.

Disneyland is where I learned to plan for WDW. (which all started with planning our wedding and honeymoon though those weren't disney-based)

Well this was quite a lively topic. It shows how people approach things differently. I think there are three basic types:
1) those who plan via ADR/FP etc and most seem to enjoy the anticipation.
2) those who don't plan much but prefer it that way
3) those who don't plan bc they're unaware that they need to to avoid disappointment

All the various levels of planning (or not) are fine but I will do my best to give a heads up to those in the third group as I run into them. I learned a lot on this board and if I can help someone avoid the disappointment of not getting to do some key things they planned on, it's all good.

The OP, though, is talking about people who somehow miss that you should plan a bit *and then* come back and complain about it, or get tied in knots about it when there.

If you're a free-and-easy person, you're not the person the OP is talking about, because you're not going to freak out that you missed something.

That is why I've looked at going to DL twice and ended up changing my mind both times. I know how to do wdw, I'm therefore afraid of trying to do DL without the same level of planning. I'm afraid we won't be able to accomplish anything without all those fastpasses (booked 60 days in advance because we don't do rope drop). I know, I know... people keep telling me it's just not that way out there. Maybe someday I'll just have to try it for myself and see.

You just recently started going to WDW, yes?

Just 3 years ago there was no FP+ and their FP system was exactly like what Disneyland currently has. Don't avoid DL because they still have the previous way. It's fun, I promise.

All this hub-bub is not required at DLR.

MG

Disagree. Less hub-bub, but still hub-bub. At least if you're in my family.



The place where we currently barely plan anything is still Universal Orlando, staying onsite at the 3 fancy hotels of course. Ahhhhhh, now THAT is a vacation.

 

[ellie05]

Ha!


If only we could all have entourages.

I wore a beige Mickey baseball cap to Disneyland once; thought I looked quite adorable! Midday I took a look at myself in the bathroom mirror, and there was a huge band of sweat all around the cap part of the hat and an inch out onto the brim. UGH. YUCK. No more cotton baseball caps!!!!! Where was my entourage????

No! Imagine how much more crowded the park would be? Plus a planning nightmare do they come with you on the rides or not too complicated .


This past October I took time to straighten my hair I thought it was all set. Well for whatever reason it was so humid that trip more than our August trip. When I went to check something the MDE app and a picture we took a couple minutes ago pop up I realize I looked like a mess. My hair was somewhat curly and frizzy I probably would have fit right in at the hocus pocus show. Seriously I wish at least me cousin or someone would have said anything.

 

[bumbershoot]

I had no idea the level of planning some people do for Disney. My first trip, I read the information Disney gave. Watched a few episodes of the Dis (who am I kidding, I watched a lot of episodes of the Dis) and made my ADRs, FP etc. In fact the entire trip was planned around getting a BOG ADR about 3 months out after I found out I couldn't go to Vegas because of work. I made my ADRs based on what interested me, not what was popular. I picked my FP based on what where the 3 most important rides for me that day, not how am I going to have this amazing FP game and get the most out of my vacation. I looked at park maps the day before I went into the parks. And ya know what, it was a fantastic trip. Loved every minute of it. Couldn't have been happier. I didn't experience everything, but I Drank Around the World, meet some lovely people and overall had a fantastic vacation.

You've watched episodes of the Dis; I never have. (I don't deal with podcasts; I like my info written)

You planned almost exactly *how people plan*. There is nearly no difference in how you planned vs how others plan. I'm not sure why you think people plan based on popular attractions etc? People plan for what they want to do. I think maybe you're reading something into uber-planners that might not be there?

The day I have a by the hour itinerary, let alone by the minute as some people do. That my friends, is the day travel stops being fun.

Can you recognize that such an itinerary IS fun for the people that do it?

Can you recognize that planning like that means you're living in the parks in your head, and THAT is fun? You're visualizing it, imagining it. I've never done a full hour-by-hour itinerary, but for the important days on certain vacations I have to, in order to communicate to my family what we need to be doing. Heck, DH is doing that right now because we just bought a house and we're in the last 2 days of moving out of our condo (I should be there, cleaning, but I opened this huge thread just as they left for the condo LOL), and he's coming up with hour by hour game plans to finish this all up.

Going with the flow meant that I got to see and experience unexpected things.

OK, but there's NOTHING that should be unexpected about a Disney trip. Characters are actors with schedules. Disney CMs tend to try to make things nice. There are maps showing everything.

Shucks.... Never really took much of that into account. Even in my planning days the most I did was try to get us in a park that would get us to dinner in time. Than again, we mostly ate at resort restaurants and would go to the room for a shower and pre dinner drinks so it didn't matter much.

I am a total fan of no planning. It works for us with the exception of ADR's, and that's only because Disney screwed that one up.

MG

You planned your trips long ago when you make eating and drinking your focus! So you planned it all out for YOUR intended trips. You're just as much of a planner than any other planner; your focuses are simply different.

I am so not a planner when it comes to vacation, but there's a difference in being a "non-planner" and being "uninformed".

The original post was about the uninformed and the disappointed-when-finally-informed.

WHere did you get this from his post?

It's from every one of his posts in this thread.

Sounds like he has fun trips. I can't drink more than two adult beverages in a day at Disney. I could have more once back at the villa/room for the evening, but then I can't get going early in the morning. Plus, DH doesn't drink so it gets sad and lonely LOL.

Because many parents just don't bother to read the information that comes home with their child, despite the fact that they signed a paper giving permission for their child to go. If they can't be bothered to read a paper that impacts the child they birthed/raised/are responsible for, they surely won't read a form letter from Disney.

I would STRONGLY recommend finding some way to get the info directly to the parents.

My son dances, and the teachers give info to the kids. So often the info doesn't get given to the parents. Since I'm a parent who is there (it's at the YMCA so I'm there working out or taking my own classes) I'm there when his class ends and can snag whatever paper he walks out with. Many parents pick up outside the building, or the kids are driving themselves. Those are the parents that seem to never know the info, because the kids aren't giving them the papers. I know 100% that the kids are being given the papers; I see them walking out with it. Not sure what happens to it in the next 5 minutes, though! A dear friend, who is very good with paperwork, has two teen girls that just never give her the papers. Unfortunately for the girls, I'm here to tell their mom that they were given info.

The lady at the kiosk is wrong. I literally got fast passes to the hardest rides after using my first three. People cancel literally every min. You just need the patience to keep clicking the times back and forth waiting for a time to pop up to grab. This was this past weekend also which is a holiday.

I think the CM was at the line, not the kiosk.

I just made dinner reservations at WL for November. Guess I should have stayed up all night at the 180 mark. I thought since WL is half empty we'd we able to eat there at a decent time. With small kids who normally go to bed at 6:30-7:00, eating at 6:30 is problematic. We didn't really want to drag them to a park late in the day to eat. I am a planner but I think it's overboard when a half empty hotel is full at opening 6 months ahead it's a problem. Learning .....

What does one have to do with the other?

Are you the one who posted about thinking you need to get a 1K/night room to be within an hour of MK? Please rethink what you think is necessary...

 

[bananabean]

Added thought...even in 2007 our WDW planning was *so* much easier. We didn't plan that trip until less than 2 months out. We had *no* problems booking signature restaurants. They were easily available on my first call. All I did in advance was book the hotel and dining, and a few special surprises for DH as he was returning from deployment. I didn't *need* to make those plans in advance, I did so so that I didn't have to do them after he returned and it would be harder to make the plans w/o him overhearing.

It was much like what DLR is now. So much less complicated and so much less stressful.

Maybe I'm just reading into it, but a lot of comments like this seem to ignore the increase in visitors over the last decade. According to Wiki there's been a ~7 million visitor increase over the last 8 years. Those people have to walk somewhere, ride something, and eat somewhere. That's going to make it harder to get FPs and ADRs just because there's more people competing for the same space.

I don't think the switch to FP+ and the ADR system is as much at fault as the number of people. I guess if you want to fault Disney for not expanding enough, that's a legitimate argument to make, but I don't think the systems set up to help with advance planning are entirely responsible for the lack of ability to do last minute planning.

That said, I still think that you have to plan way too far in advance for a Disney trip and one month out for all reservations - dining and FP - is more than enough.

 

[CaliTex]

Hmmm....DL vs. WDW IRT planning. I started going to DL with my family in 1962. We lived in SO Cal. We went every year as a family. Sometimes with extended family in tow (not as much fun taking newbies) and my family always had a plan, a strategy, knew what we wanted to do, see, and where we wanted to eat. We always ate at Aunt Jemimas for Mickey Mouse pancakes (and we were always there at park opening) and we always ate at The Plaza, at 4, to beat the crowds.

Didn't need reservations, but you did need a plan--or you spent a lot of time wandering aimlessly and asking each other what to do next? Hey, maybe some people enjoy that--but DL is what taught me to prepare for WDW. These days planning is planning on steroids, but I'm a planner--if I hated planning I would do something else on vacation.

I am with many on here; I hate that it is so restrictive, but to me the fun is worth it--but if Disney continues to raise prices and charge extra for everything (the number of nights the MK closes early for the MVMCP during our trip is seriously irritating) then I may see things differently.

The poster that compared Disney to an Everest expedition--LOL!

 

[bumbershoot]

If you fail to plan you plan to fail

For our family, at least!

Even days where we DO decide to wing it, well 1. we've been there before so we have already planned at some point for it. And 2, we have to plan to wing it!

The word "planning" means different things to different people.

So very true.

Taking off work to plan where you are going to eat in six months means that vacation is too much work.

But the person you're responding to literally said she LOVES it.

I wonder if part of the reason DLR is not as frenzied in regards to meals is because of the location. Most guests stay "offsite" there so they are in and out of the parks in a different manner than WDW. I know when we visited we tended to dine outside of Disneyland, and think that many others do as well.

Even when at WDW we go offsite. Sweet Tomatoes is a HUGE favorite of ours. When in Anaheim we'll hit Denny's for a breakfast-dinner, we go to Pizza Press (Pizza PERFECT, as DS calls it), etc.

If I know I have an ADR for a "perfect place to eat" then I don't eat a snack right before hand, and I look forward to the meal, and generally enjoy it greatly! I would be quite disappointed if I got there and was unable to eat where I wanted.

Exactly.

I don't look at ADRs as shackles, but as something to anticipate.

I love the planning, but it is insane how much there is to do so far in advance. I'm not sure Disney helps anything - they sent me an email this week sending me recommendations for my trip for next week, which included things like CRT. Why even bother telling someone about CRT less than 10 days before their trip??!!

Great point. Have you forward the email back to WDW to discuss how that sort of thing is misguided and wrong?

No! Imagine how much more crowded the park would be? Plus a planning nightmare do they come with you on the rides or not too complicated .


This past October I took time to straighten my hair I thought it was all set. Well for whatever reason it was so humid that trip more than our August trip. When I went to check something the MDE app and a picture we took a couple minutes ago pop up I realize I looked like a mess. My hair was somewhat curly and frizzy I probably would have fit right in at the hocus pocus show. Seriously I wish at least me cousin or someone would have said anything.

Good point about the entourages!

WHY don't they tell us? How hard would it be?

 

[CaliTex]

PS: Our ADR window opens up on June 13. I have blocked off my work calendar for the morning so I can get the ressies we want. I am prepping the spread sheet and prioritizing the reservations, marrying that to the anticipated (but not yet finalized) park hours. I will then plot strategy to maximize park experiences, based on the ADRs and hours.

YOU ARE WELCOME, FAMILY! But I get that some people just don't like to plan. Me--I'm like the poster here that said her family is about quality-quantity.

I wonder if the non-planners are also the ones mowing people down and freaking out in line that I often see in the parks? They are realizing that they spent 5K, and so far, on day two, they have ridden the bus and IASW and eaten chicken nuggets after standing in line for 45 minutes.

Yeah. I would be crabby, too.

 

[Hikergirl]

To be fair, Disney does send out booklets with all of this info and also emails on the days you are eligible to book dining and fastpasses etc. People just ignore them and then get upset when they think they weren't told. I guess if you aren't staying on site you wouldn't get those, but staying on site there are no excuses.

To be fair, Disney doesn't exactly come out and say "if you don't book your dining 6 months out or your rides 2 months out you may have a terrible vacation" either. LOL
I think alot of people who don't know just see those things as things they could do, but really don't need to do.
For those of us who don't really do alot of planning in general for vacations, its easy to see that and think that is crazy, I'll just pick something when I get there. Not everyone knows, even though Disney sends out those cutesy reminders.

 

[Aliceacc]

Again, there's a WORLD of difference between a newbie who doesn't know enough to plan, and an experienced veteran who consciously makes that choice.

The Vet has his/her priorities all laid out. He knows which rides will be important to his family. He knows which lines will hit the unbearable mark at which point in the day. He knows the distance between point A and point B, and an alternate route. He knows to anticipate parades, and that rides can and do break down. And he knows that if he misses a choice ride, he'll hit it next time.

A newbie family of 4, planning a "once in a lifetime" WDW vacation for the kids, knows none of that. If that guy fails to plan, he's going to have crying kids begging to get off the lines and go back for a swim, while he's seeing dollar signs everywhere he goes. His kids have seen the commercials of kids playing with Mickey Mouse, and all they've actually seen are the knees of the adults ahead of them in line.

 

[Angel Ariel]

Maybe I'm just reading into it, but a lot of comments like this seem to ignore the increase in visitors over the last decade. According to Wiki there's been a ~7 million visitor increase over the last 8 years. Those people have to walk somewhere, ride something, and eat somewhere. That's going to make it harder to get FPs and ADRs just because there's more people competing for the same space.

I don't think the switch to FP+ and the ADR system is as much at fault as the number of people. I guess if you want to fault Disney for not expanding enough, that's a legitimate argument to make, but I don't think the systems set up to help with advance planning are entirely responsible for the lack of ability to do last minute planning.

That said, I still think that you have to plan way too far in advance for a Disney trip and one month out for all reservations - dining and FP - is more than enough.

I'm not ignoring the attendance increase at all. I don't think the attendance increase has anything to do with the ADR window opening at 180. The 180 day window began in 2009. There is not huge increase in attendance between 2007 (the trip i had referred to in the post that was quoted) and 2009.

I think Disney World is intentionally trying to get people to plan and lock on their trips as early as possible, thus the booking windows that are so far out. They said as much in their early "lock it in" fastpass+ commercials. I also think that is why there is such a dichotomy with Disneyland, as Disneyland does have much more of a locals market and an emphasis on planning ahead that far in advance would not go over well with their core demographic.

 

[goofyernmost]

This. About 10 years ago, myself, DH and 2 friends traveled to 4 cities in Europe. Each of us was "assigned" a city. 3 of us researched our cities (London, Paris, and Vienna) well and we had a great time! We saw landmarks and touristy things in each city, had dinners at unique restaurants, visited museums... One of our friends flaked and did not plan for his city (Venice) and we didn't see squat. I'm not saying we had a bad time, but the only landmark we saw was St. Marks square. There were so many things we missed all because of poor/no planning.

My point is that you have to plan for ANY vacation, regardless of where it is. I do realize that Disney is unique, but the "I don't know" excuse doesn't really fly with me. Disney provides enough information when you book. And we live in the age of the internet....... information is at your fingertips. How hard is it to search for "Disney World trip planning"?


Also agree that any plan for anywhere needs to have some flexibility.....But that is all part of being prepared...

I went to Venice in 1967 and again last November 2015. As far as I could see absolutely nothing has changed in all those years and the St. Mark's Square is the historic landmark area. The rest of the city is just literally trying to keep it's head above water. The canals are much cleaner now then they were in 1967, I'll say that.

When people spend $5k+ on their vacation, they don't want "SOMEWHERE" to eat. They want the perfect place to eat.



And yet, DLR has a bigger supply/demand gap and yet doesn't have these same issues.

DLR also has the blessing of small size. In other words, if you can't eat onsite you walk 500 feet and run into a street packed with restaurants. DLR people are not captive, many at WDW are! Disney saw to that with free bus transportation from the airport. "You don't need a car... we'll take care of all your needs." "Leave all your stress behind, just hand us your wallet and we will take care of everything".

 

[goofyernmost]

PS: Our ADR window opens up on June 13. I have blocked off my work calendar for the morning so I can get the ressies we want. I am prepping the spread sheet and prioritizing the reservations, marrying that to the anticipated (but not yet finalized) park hours. I will then plot strategy to maximize park experiences, based on the ADRs and hours.

YOU ARE WELCOME, FAMILY! But I get that some people just don't like to plan. Me--I'm like the poster here that said her family is about quality-quantity.

I wonder if the non-planners are also the ones mowing people down and freaking out in line that I often see in the parks? They are realizing that they spent 5K, and so far, on day two, they have ridden the bus and IASW and eaten chicken nuggets after standing in line for 45 minutes.

Yeah. I would be crabby, too.

I don't think the non-planners are the ones spending 5K. Let's say you decide to go to WDW, a place you have never been before, you don't feel the need to stay in a Disney resort mostly to save money, you go to your local AAA and buy your tickets, no package sent from Disney. You have been to other Theme (amusement) parks and didn't require any planning. You just get your body there and have a good time. There is no reason for them to think that any "homework" need be done. They're just going to a theme park for crying out loud. They are the ones that I feel get caught unaware. They have no basis of experience that tells them that unless they want to be disappointed, they need to plan ahead six entire months. They need to know in January what they will crave to eat come July. They don't even know, for the most part, that Disney discussion board even exist, much less that they should spent endless hours researching them to find out what they need for a simple vacation.

 

[Nancyg56]

I don't think the non-planners are the ones spending 5K. Let's say you decide to go to WDW, a place you have never been before, you don't feel the need to stay in a Disney resort mostly to save money, you go to your local AAA and buy your tickets, no package sent from Disney. You have been to other Theme (amusement) parks and didn't require any planning. You just get your body there and have a good time. There is no reason for them to think that any "homework" need be done. They're just going to a theme park for crying out loud. They are the ones that I feel get caught unaware. They have no basis of experience that tells them that unless they want to be disappointed, they need to plan ahead six entire months. They need to know in January what they will crave to eat come July. They don't even know, for the most part, that Disney discussion board even exist, much less that they should spent endless hours researching them to find out what they need for a simple vacation.

Yes, these folks are the ones who may be blindsided upon arrival. I think that it's a shame really.

I also think that there are people who look at the bottom line of just one portion of the tip. My sister has a timeshare in that area, and on her one recent trip she and her DH stayed there with his Mom. It was a cluster. Mom liked the pool but it was so far away with her health that they needed to drive her back and forth. When they went to the parks she was stranded really. Yet she cannot get past the cost of onsite, so every time the subject comes up she insisted her timeshare be used. No.

 

[bananabean]

I'm not ignoring the attendance increase at all. I don't think the attendance increase has anything to do with the ADR window opening at 180. The 180 day window began in 2009. There is not huge increase in attendance between 2007 (the trip i had referred to in the post that was quoted) and 2009.

I think Disney World is intentionally trying to get people to plan and lock on their trips as early as possible, thus the booking windows that are so far out. They said as much in their early "lock it in" fastpass+ commercials. I also think that is why there is such a dichotomy with Disneyland, as Disneyland does have much more of a locals market and an emphasis on planning ahead that far in advance would not go over well with their core demographic.

I agree about it not having to do with the time frame. I was focusing more on the idea that ADRs are making it harder to get last minute dining spots while at the parks. Sorry if I misinterpreted what you wrote and that my response wasn't clear.

 

[honeybunches]

I would STRONGLY recommend finding some way to get the info directly to the parents.

My son dances, and the teachers give info to the kids. So often the info doesn't get given to the parents. Since I'm a parent who is there (it's at the YMCA so I'm there working out or taking my own classes) I'm there when his class ends and can snag whatever paper he walks out with. Many parents pick up outside the building, or the kids are driving themselves. Those are the parents that seem to never know the info, because the kids aren't giving them the papers. I know 100% that the kids are being given the papers; I see them walking out with it. Not sure what happens to it in the next 5 minutes, though! A dear friend, who is very good with paperwork, has two teen girls that just never give her the papers. Unfortunately for the girls, I'm here to tell their mom that they were given info.

I'm specifically referring to papers that are sent home in a big brown envelope at the beginning of the school year. I highlight the "This is your password" and "Do not discard this page" lines and have the kids put stars at the top of the page. It still gets thrown away, and then the parents ask us for another copy within a couple of weeks. As far as other papers go, important notices are sent via email, direct call-out, online, and hard copy. Other than writing it in Sharpie on a kid's forehead, I don't know what else we could do. I teach 6th grade. By the time kids are 11/12 years old, they should be able to take home a paper that has important information on it. Kids who are driving themselves should certainly be able to take care of it! I know what you're saying about kids not making it home with papers, but that needs to be dealt with between the parent/child. That's another issue for another thread, though. In regard to this post, I think many people just don't read the details in the paperwork Disney sends.

 

[disneyduonj]

I really don't think they are. The French Laundry takes reservations in advance, two months to the day--not 180 days in advance. A seat for dinner at BoG or Ohana requires more advanced planning. El Bulli opened up its books in October for its season beginning in May. That is about on par with CRT. One can do "same day" viewing at the Academia, but the smart folks book a time slot in advance. Otherwise the wait time for the "standby" line is about the same as TSMM at 11:00 a.m.. Not many pop/rock concerts sell tickets 6 months in advance. Really, truly, honestly, people wait in lines to see The David that are about the same or shorter than TSMM. Really, truly, honestly, getting a table at the French Laundry is about on par with some at WDW.

The issue here is first timers. Not many would expect these experiences to be on par with one another. Disney sets itself up for disappointment by not warning people of this fact. They tell you that you could book your Anna and Elsa FP (back when they had them) 60 days in advance. But none of their literature warned you that you really needed to.

I don't think that people are saying that there shouldn't be any advanced planning. I think people are saying that the elongated timeframes at Disney World arecord a bit extreme. I have been going to Disney World since the dinner reservations were not available, were available 30 days in advance, 60 days in advance 90 in advance, and 180 days in advance. Nothing has really changed throughout all that time other than the lead time in advance that I need to start my planning. Of course there would still be a rush to the computer and phone lines if reservation began 60 days in advance. I just think that if people start booking 60 days instead of 180 days there is less stress about pre-planning. Same with FPs. The lead time could shrink from 60/30 to 14/7 with no ill effects for the guest. It is Disney that demands that we "lock it in" so far in advance. No guest ever demanded that sort of lead time.

I think their website would crash more often if the lead time was shortened