Why dont people plan?

[JimmyV]

Disney is no different.

You are not wrong, per se, in anything you have said in your various posts. However, when we take a step back and look at this, we are now equating a dinner reservation at Ohana with one at El Bulli (R.I.P.) or the French Laundry; a seat on TSMM with a spot in line to see The David at the Academia; a ticket to see Fantasmic to a ticket to see Jimmy Buffet; and an opportunity to meet Anna and Elsa with an audience with the Pope. All of these things require(d) extreme advanced planning. But first time visitors to WDW can be forgiven for not thinking that their trip to an amusement park would require the same level of planning as the world's greatest culinary, historic and cultural experiences. So yes, Disney in fact is no different. But that isn't an intuitive conclusion to the uninitiated.

 

[Nancyg56]

your right to an extent....the problem is not that folks dont know "anything"...its that just not understanding "a little bit"....can be the difference between a good time and a bad time....and IMO, that is a bit ridiculous....The problem at Disney over the past 10 years, is that while room capacity has exploded around the park....the places for people to go have not kept up at that level

I agree. My niece and nephew are going in June with their family on an extended family trip. My DN DMIL is payign for it, 16 people DxDDP at the Poly. Perfect right? Maybe. I offered twice to help but DMIL but she did not bite and I don't push. We were all together a few weeks ago and the things they don't know are huge. They should have been fine though, when you look at their experience, but things changed so fast that even with research they need some help. I did give a little feedback with the DxDDP, but I don't want to intrude too much. The thing with Disney is that unless you are glued to planning sights you don't know what you don't know.

I hear what you are saying, but let me ask you this. If you were going any other place on the planet, and you were spending 5000 or more for a week long vacation, wouldn't you at least look into it before you went? The fact that so may people spend that kind of cash, and have no clue when there are more resources than ever, including the dozen emails Disney sends out each trip, is astounding to me.

Even with preplanning, visitors can be left in the cold. You have to find the right planning sights to make sure you have good info. I have ead planning guides that are wrong, visited sights that only provide an overview, but that seem to be complete. When you add the fact that teh planing DVD, which should be the best since it comes straight from Disney, is kind of vague when it comes to the hard truth, how can you blame people for feeling left out?

I have not read the entire thread but THIS. I was lucky enough to start going before all this pre-planning became necessary and I have VERY fond memories of those times.

Me too. We checked in to the CR, went to the concierge and had HDDRR The Luau, Breakfast ot the Top of the World, The Empress Lily, and the other character meal in the CR booked for our stay...which was over NYE> Ahhhhh the good old days! LOL!

It is sad to see those families who have spent thousands and are not able to get the full experience, but those are probably the ones who are also clueless in life as well and go by the seat of their pants for everything. To make the most of any vacation you do need to plan a little and research the area you are visiting. Disney is a different beast.

We were able to scramble and plan a NYE trip (my first trip, husband had been numerous times before) in October (2 months out) -- I had to do tons of reading, planning and stalking dining reservations in order to have a successful trip. Thank goodness for this board!!!! I didn't realize that you had to be an extreme planner for Disney, some people either don't care, don't know or can't put the effort into the planning. My co-worker had a trip w/ kids and grand kid. i tried to give her tips on things, but she was insistent on having the travel agent set her dining reservations. I couldn't imagine doing that.

Part of the fun and excitement of a disney trip is the months of planning ahead of time. i think that helps add to the build up of the excitement for the trip. I already can't wait to book my next trip (in a year)

I think this kind of post is kind of disrespectful. We all travel in different ways. I have a friend who is a Disney TA and she lives in town. She is very savvy in regards to DIsney touring plans and will not only make ADR's but will book FP based on an itinerary she sets up after having discussed how her clients want to vacation. My first trips I used a TA and took full advantage of their help.

I also need to point out that what you or I consider as a full experience may be torture to others. My DH cousin took her family and made NOT ONE ADR, and refused to plan anything other than her resort. I was YIKES! You won't eat!!! She just laughed and said, "We'll eat" and they all did. The thought of planning meals ahead made her head spin. They went. They enjoyed, They will go back. And they will travel the same way. Because it works for them.
Now before you make that leap that this is a clueless family in day to day life....nothing can be further from the truth. DH Cousin has a very stressful job and her idea of relaxing at home entails taking care of her horses, chickens and whatever else she has in her menagerie. Her partner is a Dr, and the last thing he wants on vacation is to be as scheduled as he is on a daily basis.

As I had stated above these booklets, online infos and emails leave the big truth out... If you don't book such things as BBB, top ADR places, 180 days out you are SOL: same with FP,,, a normal thinking person would assume, I can make these when I get there a day or two before I decide which park to visit.. Ha! Ha!

Disney doesnt say you need to decide which park and when 60/ 30 days out.. Doesnt say on the BBB brochure, if your trip is soon, forget calling !!!

THIS!! Yes, DIsney sends info, but unless you read between the lines you think that these extras can be booked when you et closer to your trip.

 

[merrick]

we went for our first time in '14 our agent was disney certified so had a lot of knowledge to share. at certain points, it was overwhelming to keep up with everything he was explaining and i would glaze over, thinking "this is a vacation, it shouldn't be this complicated". meal plans and refillable mugs (but only certain places!) and magic bands... etc, etc.

he explained DDP, booked several ADRs, gave us overview of fastpass with some suggestions and got us set up on the my disney experience site. i expect some agents say they can do disney and maybe have been but aren't aware of *all* the intricacies involved either.

our agent did say sometimes you can get into places like BOG, but admitted it would be fluke. so we were the people who went up the CM the first day we arrived to ask if there was any space available for us (there wasn't). sometimes spontaneity can be a great thing; people do have different ideas about vacations. some like an agenda and others like exploring. i didn't want to be scheduled up the wazoo but would have been frustrated to spend all that money and say "wow, i wish i had known THAT before".

 

[margot31]

For me I don't care what those people do or don't do. If they ask questions yes I will be glad to point them in the right direction. I see people on other boards that have nothing to do with disney and direct them to this so they can get help if they really want the help. For me I don't let people like that bother me in any way unless they want my help.

 

[Cee]

Even though I'm a "fly by the seat of my pants" kinda gal, I still make FP selections and a few ADRs ahead of time, along with online check-in. I also pre-order Garden Grocer to be delivered on the day of our arrival since we stay DVC. The rest is pretty flow and go. But that is ALOT of planning to a majority of folks. To me, it's the bare minimum to prepare for a trip.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

When DH and I honeymooned in WDW 25 years ago, we both had no clue. Of course there was no internet or cell phones but we had a great time. Did we eat at all the "best places"? No because we had no idea what they were but we still had some great meals. However, everywhere we walked in, we got a table.

Now we are in the age of information overload and it can not only be overwhelming but can also suck the fun right out of a vacation. People get so upset they don't get a BOG reservation but why if they don't KNOW they will love it? BTW it was the worst and most disappointing lunch ever at WDW. I've been watching with dismay how it has transformed from walking into restaurants to seeing signs up in EPCOT WS "Restaurants are Full". Can you imagine going to NYC and not getting any table service restaurant at all?

Over the years I've watched the incremental changes in the amount of effort and planning it takes and it really has taken the wind out of my sails. I really didn't mind planning so far out but now between the $10 no show fee and planning FP+ months out, I can't flip my vacation around to wake up and go to TL of BB on a beautiful day. On our DHS day it rained in the afternoon but I schlepped over in a monsoon to eat at BD for our Fantasmic! package and FP! thankfully went on as planned. The park and restaurant was packed! It was peak season and my table would not have been unoccupied but I felt so hemmed in.

I am not a fan of FP+ for this reason. I liked same day FP-.

 

[alopez926]

My brother and his family came with us to WDW for their first trip last November. They had absolutely no clue. Every time I'd check in with them about stuff like ADRs, accommodations, FP+, he was so incredulous that we needed to decide and plan these things so far out, especially since we were a party of 8. He even got annoyed with me at one point because he felt I was going overboard with the planning...probably a fair assessment, but I was just trying to make the trip magical for his kids (who had never been before) and mine. Going during Free Dining in November took planning to a whole new level because so few of the things they wanted to do were available 180 days out. I was online every day from Day 180 until the day we left trying to plan things, pick up ADRs that people dropped, and then later booking Fast passes one at a time and then eventually migrating them over to be within the time window so we could all ride together. It honestly was a soul sucking exercise.

But that was the "invisible" side of the planning. Nobody knew how much time I spent except me.

Then there was the in-park planning that had to take place when plans needed to get rearranged (constantly) which necessitated an inordinate amount of time on MDE every day. It was so hard to manage a large group, even building in a fair amount of time to let people go off on their own. The park crowds were like an 8/9 and so if we missed our ADR or FP+ windows, we weren't getting new reservations without a significant amount of work, or at all.

I was going to take my daughter for a short trip at the end of August, and she told me not to bother...that I spent too much time on my phone planning and that had made it much less fun than when we first started going together in 2009 before FP+. I felt horrible that I had let planning get in the way of the fun (at least from my daughter's perspective). So there is a definite downside to the planning as well. Because I hate crowds and standing in line so much, I probably overplanned the amount we'd have to experience either of these. Maybe we need to go with the flow a little more, with a little less planning. If the line is too long for a ride we can decide to skip it that trip, or if crowds are too great, we can splurge on hoppers and go somewhere else or just go back to the hotel and relax. The point is to have fun, and it appears the overplanning took the fun away for both of us. Lesson learned the hard way.

 

[Nancyg56]

My brother and his family came with us to WDW for their first trip last November. They had absolutely no clue. Every time I'd check in with them about stuff like ADRs, accommodations, FP+, he was so incredulous that we needed to decide and plan these things so far out, especially since we were a party of 8. He even got annoyed with me at one point because he felt I was going overboard with the planning...probably a fair assessment, but I was just trying to make the trip magical for his kids (who had never been before) and mine. Going during Free Dining in November took planning to a whole new level because so few of the things they wanted to do were available 180 days out. I was online every day from Day 180 until the day we left trying to plan things, pick up ADRs that people dropped, and then later booking Fast passes one at a time and then eventually migrating them over to be within the time window so we could all ride together. It honestly was a soul sucking exercise.

But that was the "invisible" side of the planning. Nobody knew how much time I spent except me.

Then there was the in-park planning that had to take place when plans needed to get rearranged (constantly) which necessitated an inordinate amount of time on MDE every day. It was so hard to manage a large group, even building in a fair amount of time to let people go off on their own. The park crowds were like an 8/9 and so if we missed our ADR or FP+ windows, we weren't getting new reservations without a significant amount of work, or at all.

I was going to take my daughter for a short trip at the end of August, and she told me not to bother...that I spent too much time on my phone planning and that had made it much less fun than when we first started going together in 2009 before FP+. I felt horrible that I had let planning get in the way of the fun (at least from my daughter's perspective). So there is a definite downside to the planning as well. Because I hate crowds and standing in line so much, I probably overplanned the amount we'd have to experience either of these. Maybe we need to go with the flow a little more, with a little less planning. If the line is too long for a ride we can decide to skip it that trip, or if crowds are too great, we can splurge on hoppers and go somewhere else or just go back to the hotel and relax. The point is to have fun, and it appears the overplanning took the fun away for both of us. Lesson learned the hard way.

It can back fire, that's for sure!

 

[margot31]

My brother and his family came with us to WDW for their first trip last November. They had absolutely no clue. Every time I'd check in with them about stuff like ADRs, accommodations, FP+, he was so incredulous that we needed to decide and plan these things so far out, especially since we were a party of 8. He even got annoyed with me at one point because he felt I was going overboard with the planning...probably a fair assessment, but I was just trying to make the trip magical for his kids (who had never been before) and mine. Going during Free Dining in November took planning to a whole new level because so few of the things they wanted to do were available 180 days out. I was online every day from Day 180 until the day we left trying to plan things, pick up ADRs that people dropped, and then later booking Fast passes one at a time and then eventually migrating them over to be within the time window so we could all ride together. It honestly was a soul sucking exercise.

But that was the "invisible" side of the planning. Nobody knew how much time I spent except me.

Then there was the in-park planning that had to take place when plans needed to get rearranged (constantly) which necessitated an inordinate amount of time on MDE every day. It was so hard to manage a large group, even building in a fair amount of time to let people go off on their own. The park crowds were like an 8/9 and so if we missed our ADR or FP+ windows, we weren't getting new reservations without a significant amount of work, or at all.

I was going to take my daughter for a short trip at the end of August, and she told me not to bother...that I spent too much time on my phone planning and that had made it much less fun than when we first started going together in 2009 before FP+. I felt horrible that I had let planning get in the way of the fun (at least from my daughter's perspective). So there is a definite downside to the planning as well. Because I hate crowds and standing in line so much, I probably overplanned the amount we'd have to experience either of these. Maybe we need to go with the flow a little more, with a little less planning. If the line is too long for a ride we can decide to skip it that trip, or if crowds are too great, we can splurge on hoppers and go somewhere else or just go back to the hotel and relax. The point is to have fun, and it appears the overplanning took the fun away for both of us. Lesson learned the hard way.

That is why I only plan the things we ABSOLUTELY want to do like star tours...we always get FP for that maybe a few other popular ones but span them through the day as much as we can. That way anything else we can kind of say lets to this or that. My latest trip it was just my husband and I so even getting some reservations we were able to do the day of which was nice....But I know for the next trip it will be different cause we will have our young kids with us and it will be a completely different kind of trip for us.

 

[whiporee]

You are not wrong, per se, in anything you have said in your various posts. However, when we take a step back and look at this, we are now equating a dinner reservation at Ohana with one at El Bulli (R.I.P.) or the French Laundry; a seat on TSMM with a spot in line to see The David at the Academia; a ticket to see Fantasmic to a ticket to see Jimmy Buffet; and an opportunity to meet Anna and Elsa with an audience with the Pope. All of these things require(d) extreme advanced planning. But first time visitors to WDW can be forgiven for not thinking that their trip to an amusement park would require the same level of planning as the world's greatest culinary, historic and cultural experiences. So yes, Disney in fact is no different. But that isn't an intuitive conclusion to the uninitiated.

While I know your examples are extreme, I have to go back to my original point. What creates long lines and hard-to-get reservations is demand, not quality. Sometimes quality creates demand, but in areas of scarcity, the limited amount of whatever creates the demand. That's the case with Disney.

I'm not saying any of these long-times or reservations are justified by their quality. That's subjective, of course. But you do have to remember that there are roughly 100,000 people in the resort box at any given time, and those people need to eat. The argument being made here is, as far as I can tell, is that it shouldn't require advance planning. And while I think that's a great concept and it's how I'd prefer my vacation, there isn't a practical alternative -- that the planning advantage isn't a consequence of Disney being greedy and manipulative as much as it is a factor of 120,000 people a day all wanting the same things and having a limited amount of seats for them. In those cases, invariably, society turns to rationing. And while I agree it sucks, I think Disney is doing the best job of rationing that it can.

 

[capegirl]

As a Dis vet I am looking at planning from a totally different perspective. I have been the super planner for years, and I am pretty much over it. Now we are taking a step back to bring the planning back to a level that works for our family. We know the drill, and we've already sifted through the whole Disney expierience. We know exactly what we want, so we focus on attractions, shows, and meals that bring us joy. I consider the Dis a valuable resource to update my Disney knowledge; knowledge is power on a Disney vacation. I always reccommend this forum for anyone who is a first time planner.

 

[Frozen2014]

I believe the simple answer is "they don't know." Specifically, they don't think to look into it after booking their trip. They just book the trip and wait and see when they arrive.

Agree. It sounds more like they don't know than like they couldn't be bothered.

 

[JimmyV]

While I know your examples are extreme

I really don't think they are. The French Laundry takes reservations in advance, two months to the day--not 180 days in advance. A seat for dinner at BoG or Ohana requires more advanced planning. El Bulli opened up its books in October for its season beginning in May. That is about on par with CRT. One can do "same day" viewing at the Academia, but the smart folks book a time slot in advance. Otherwise the wait time for the "standby" line is about the same as TSMM at 11:00 a.m.. Not many pop/rock concerts sell tickets 6 months in advance. Really, truly, honestly, people wait in lines to see The David that are about the same or shorter than TSMM. Really, truly, honestly, getting a table at the French Laundry is about on par with some at WDW.

The issue here is first timers. Not many would expect these experiences to be on par with one another. Disney sets itself up for disappointment by not warning people of this fact. They tell you that you could book your Anna and Elsa FP (back when they had them) 60 days in advance. But none of their literature warned you that you really needed to.

I don't think that people are saying that there shouldn't be any advanced planning. I think people are saying that the elongated timeframes at Disney World arecord a bit extreme. I have been going to Disney World since the dinner reservations were not available, were available 30 days in advance, 60 days in advance 90 in advance, and 180 days in advance. Nothing has really changed throughout all that time other than the lead time in advance that I need to start my planning. Of course there would still be a rush to the computer and phone lines if reservation began 60 days in advance. I just think that if people start booking 60 days instead of 180 days there is less stress about pre-planning. Same with FPs. The lead time could shrink from 60/30 to 14/7 with no ill effects for the guest. It is Disney that demands that we "lock it in" so far in advance. No guest ever demanded that sort of lead time.

 

[MaryKatesMom]

My brother and his family came with us to WDW for their first trip last November. They had absolutely no clue. Every time I'd check in with them about stuff like ADRs, accommodations, FP+, he was so incredulous that we needed to decide and plan these things so far out, especially since we were a party of 8. He even got annoyed with me at one point because he felt I was going overboard with the planning...probably a fair assessment, but I was just trying to make the trip magical for his kids (who had never been before) and mine. Going during Free Dining in November took planning to a whole new level because so few of the things they wanted to do were available 180 days out. I was online every day from Day 180 until the day we left trying to plan things, pick up ADRs that people dropped, and then later booking Fast passes one at a time and then eventually migrating them over to be within the time window so we could all ride together. It honestly was a soul sucking exercise.

But that was the "invisible" side of the planning. Nobody knew how much time I spent except me.

Then there was the in-park planning that had to take place when plans needed to get rearranged (constantly) which necessitated an inordinate amount of time on MDE every day. It was so hard to manage a large group, even building in a fair amount of time to let people go off on their own. The park crowds were like an 8/9 and so if we missed our ADR or FP+ windows, we weren't getting new reservations without a significant amount of work, or at all.

I was going to take my daughter for a short trip at the end of August, and she told me not to bother...that I spent too much time on my phone planning and that had made it much less fun than when we first started going together in 2009 before FP+. I felt horrible that I had let planning get in the way of the fun (at least from my daughter's perspective). So there is a definite downside to the planning as well. Because I hate crowds and standing in line so much, I probably overplanned the amount we'd have to experience either of these. Maybe we need to go with the flow a little more, with a little less planning. If the line is too long for a ride we can decide to skip it that trip, or if crowds are too great, we can splurge on hoppers and go somewhere else or just go back to the hotel and relax. The point is to have fun, and it appears the overplanning took the fun away for both of us. Lesson learned the hard way.

I feel your pain! I took 11 people over Easter and for my own sanity's sake we booked dessert parties and the Wild Africa Trek to move us into less crowded situations. I couldn't even get 1 party of 6 at some of my favorite restaurants at 180 days out at midnight let alone 2 parties close together. (The 180+10 had beat me too them). I could only do a BOG lunch. Imagine telling my sister a restaurant was booked the minute it opened. It took some explaining.

I had better luck with the FP+ at midnight at 60 days out but linking everything, tickets, rooms and accounts. Whew!! I had a binder with spreadsheets and I used custom touring plans from TP for each day but I spent hours and hours on all of this but at least I knew what I wanted to do and where I wanted to go. I never would have been able to do all that without years of experience traveling to WDW. I can't imagine how awful I would feel trying to do all that blind.

While I know your examples are extreme, I have to go back to my original point. What creates long lines and hard-to-get reservations is demand, not quality. Sometimes quality creates demand, but in areas of scarcity, the limited amount of whatever creates the demand. That's the case with Disney.

I'm not saying any of these long-times or reservations are justified by their quality. That's subjective, of course. But you do have to remember that there are roughly 100,000 people in the resort box at any given time, and those people need to eat. The argument being made here is, as far as I can tell, is that it shouldn't require advance planning. And while I think that's a great concept and it's how I'd prefer my vacation, there isn't a practical alternative -- that the planning advantage isn't a consequence of Disney being greedy and manipulative as much as it is a factor of 120,000 people a day all wanting the same things and having a limited amount of seats for them. In those cases, invariably, society turns to rationing. And while I agree it sucks, I think Disney is doing the best job of rationing that it can.

Yes, FP+ is definitely a ride rationing system. But I think it would help if Disney did a better job of warning people if you don't get a ADR for an in the park TS by such and such please look at the resort restaurants. GFC is a hidden gem IMHO. Even during crowd level 10+ days, you can still walk up and get a table at lunch. Sort of like how FP+ works now. Here is what is available nearby and is easily accessible.

I've often wondered if it would help to stop taking ADR's 30 days out and then having a "same day" policy.

 

[IndianaRRT]

Same song here. The first time we went in 2007, I thought I had planned. We knew about fastpasses (put your card in, get a FP), and I knew to get to the kiosks early and all the rules. I knew the restaurants but had no idea about reservations. Thankfully, when we stopped in City Hall to look around, a sharp CM spotted the cluelessness immediately and helped us get ressies where available. We still had a great trip.

But I am a planner by nature, having earned the unfortunate title "trip nazi" long before our WDW days. Our subsequent trips have included all the planning. I do it because I love it. Case in point, we are leaving a year from today, soooo...yeah, I'm taking a 1/2 day vacation on that magical day in November when our ADR window opens. And the great part is, my manager is a Disney nut too. When I told her we had set our dates, she said, "So, you can have the morning of your ADRs off." Yeah--that's pretty awesome.

I get asked for help all the time, and I always have a few immediate questions: when are you going, what is your budget, and how much of a crazy planner are you? Then I recommend according to those answers. QS restaurants recommendations are the way to go when dealing with people who think reserving dinner 6 months prior is certafreakingfiable. Disney Springs shops are a safe suggestion. I advise them that availability will be nonexistent or limited at best for BOG, CRT, 7DMT, etc. For people who have a year or more, it's all in, baby! We have spreadsheets and binders, etc. It's all in who you're dealing with.

 

[NS8VN]

For me, planning and studying my destination is part of the fun. I love to research new things and learn so the planning stage is exciting. We went in '12 and I was on the board reading a couple of months ahead of time (though I didn't sign up then). It was kind of a last minute thing, long story there. My father and I are DVC members and with some research I decided on the SSR Treehouses. The board specifically helped me put in a request for a house on the far end closest to the bus stop. If not for that planning I would have had no idea we could hop a water taxi right to DTD, or that there was a private treehouse pool that we ended up having all to ourselves many nights.

After that we dropped off the boards but, obviously, have returned as we have a trip coming up in January. Already our research pushed back our visit that was originally planned for MLK weekend. After getting information on crowd levels we decided the weekend after would be a better option. Now here I am ready to book a room next month and meeting with our travel companions to decide what ADRs need to be scheduled 180 out. To me it is fun to go through the different options. We certainly aren't planning it minute by minute, but a few select "we will do this around this time" moments help things to run smoothly.

As for not planning, it depends. I was once told that the difference between ignorance and stupidity is that ignorance is not knowing and stupidity is knowing but ignoring. While I wouldn't go so far as to call non-planners stupid, if they know but ignore then they have made that choice. My wife and I went to DL on our honeymoon in '08 and had no plans. We barely rode anything due to our limited time and no planning but still had a good time finally visiting the original MK. So I know you can have a good time regardless. I sometimes envy people who can just up and do something spur of the moment with no planning. But if you were informed but choose to ignore the information then I reserve the right to not listen to your complaining when something avoidable didn't go right.

 

[Sue M]

A friend of mine took her family, all of them. Daughters, husbands and grandkids. They booked a vacation home off site, it made sense for them.
She never asked me anything about Wdw even though she knows I go lots. I guess she didn't want any help. I never even knew she was going till last moment. I asked her about planning, and she said her daughter & husband were going to plan.
I felt so sorry for all of them. She came back and said Wdw was terrible. It could have been great had they researched. But she wanted to let daughter & husband plan. Too bad they failed on the planning.
They never got to parks before noon. So wait times were horrendous. She said for food all she could find were burgers or chicken nuggets and fries . I don't think they knew what FPs were.

Because you have to tread lightly when friends and family are involved I couldn't sat too much when she returned and said she had a Terrible time.

 

[Robertfam08]

While I know your examples are extreme, I have to go back to my original point. What creates long lines and hard-to-get reservations is demand, not quality. Sometimes quality creates demand, but in areas of scarcity, the limited amount of whatever creates the demand. That's the case with Disney.

I'm not saying any of these long-times or reservations are justified by their quality. That's subjective, of course. But you do have to remember that there are roughly 100,000 people in the resort box at any given time, and those people need to eat. The argument being made here is, as far as I can tell, is that it shouldn't require advance planning. And while I think that's a great concept and it's how I'd prefer my vacation, there isn't a practical alternative -- that the planning advantage isn't a consequence of Disney being greedy and manipulative as much as it is a factor of 120,000 people a day all wanting the same things and having a limited amount of seats for them. In those cases, invariably, society turns to rationing. And while I agree it sucks, I think Disney is doing the best job of rationing that it can.

I agree. For those staying on property, I don't think there's really an excuse that "you don't know what you don't know." The literature Disney sends tells you exactly when your dates are to start reserving things. Maybe they could add a disclaimer that they "Strongly recommend" booking at these dates, but other than that, they cannot force people to plan. They even offer a FREE vacation planning dvd which should be a pretty good hint that this vacation deserves a little research. You almost have to be actively avoiding the information that is all around you, especially as an on-property guest.

I think it's totally possible to go with minimal planning and have a good time - especially if you've been before. I think one of the complaints here is not just about people who like to wing it, but about people who wing it and then openly grumble about not getting what they want because of their lack of planning. But if you wait too long to reserve something anywhere, there is no guarantee you'll get in. So those that enjoy winging it on vacation, that's totally fine and their poragitve. They just need to have realistic expectations of the world and continue to go with the flow when they don't get what they want.

 

[Magpie]

I was going to take my daughter for a short trip at the end of August, and she told me not to bother...that I spent too much time on my phone planning and that had made it much less fun than when we first started going together in 2009 before FP+. I felt horrible that I had let planning get in the way of the fun (at least from my daughter's perspective). So there is a definite downside to the planning as well. Because I hate crowds and standing in line so much, I probably overplanned the amount we'd have to experience either of these. Maybe we need to go with the flow a little more, with a little less planning. If the line is too long for a ride we can decide to skip it that trip, or if crowds are too great, we can splurge on hoppers and go somewhere else or just go back to the hotel and relax. The point is to have fun, and it appears the overplanning took the fun away for both of us. Lesson learned the hard way.

What if you promised your daughter you'd leave the phone in the hotel safe? My husband and I have never had any device we could use in the parks (his Blackberry is awful), so we just don't bother. We basically do exactly what you described. We plan. We book our FP+ and dining ressies, and then within that loose framework, we go with the flow.

We make good use of rope drop, afternoon breaks, park close, and our familiarity with general crowd patterns, and occasional visits to a kiosk. Over the course of a typical vacation we ride everything we want to ride. We never stand in long lines (except when rides break down and we end up accidentally trapped in the queue). Effective planning does not have to involve being glued to your phone while in the parks.

Gotta say, I LOVE park hoppers.

 

[Anniefrances]

I caught a glimpse of how some people might not plan ahead when I took my mom for the first time. Myself, I have been to WDW probably around 15 times, and this was her first. Even though we went in March before the spring break crowds hit, I wanted to be sure we had FP and ADRs for the not-to-be-missed stuff.

Upon arrival it was so exciting to her that she just wanted to go with the flow and meander, checking things out as we went. I had forgotten how it feels like the first time there and how it feels to have to skip something in order to get somewhere else because of scheduling. Also, for me, it was difficult to even plan FP and ADR because my mom couldn't gauge what she wanted to do without having seen it. And on top of it, she is not physically fit (I tried to get her to start walking a few months prior to our trip) so she ended up wanting to sleep in each day due to being tired from the day before, meaning RD was not an option for us.

Suffice it to say we missed nearly all of our FPs and cancelled many ADRs. On the other hand, she was happy wandering around and eating QS. So the trip was fine, just very different from how my kids and I usually approach it. But for a family who is missing stuff that they have their hearts set on (e.g. SDMT or a meet and greet) I can see how that could easily lead to a less than enjoyable vacation.