Why does it take 4 years to get a college education?

[DawnCt1]

I wondered when someone would point this out. I decided to go back to school and had to do a year of postbac work because my undergrad degree didn't prepare me for the grad program (English BA, now working on a Communication Disorders and Sciences MA). How, without taking speech anatomy, would I pass neuro-anatomy with a focus on speech, or voice disorders, for that matter? Without taking phonetics, how would I be able to transcribe language samples in clinic? How could you learn about speech and language disorders if you don't know what is normal? Basically, grad school in many practical fields assumes you have certain knowledge before starting, and they don't teach those kinds of subjects in high school.

Great choice for a graduate degree. I have no doubt that your services will be in demand.

 

[Judy from Boise]

The COO of our Rehab hospital (and my boss) is a CCC - SLP. STs are very sought after in our organization!

 

[Judy from Boise]

But back to the thread.........education is never a waste, although people can waste the opportunity to learn, grow, and be the best they can be. I went to CC for my associates, where I took 20 units each semester, and CLEPed a lot of units. Went to in state schools, finished with my master's degree without debt.

I do not consider it an elitist attitude to expect a bachelors for any job that is typically a "career", and of course a master's or doctrate for anything considered a "profession". If you want a "job", a HS diploma should qualify you.

 

[arminnie]

I know several people that graduated in 3yrs.

I graduated in 3 years - I only took 9 hours in summer school. I worked at least 20 hours a week, plus had a ton of extracurricular activities. Lots and lots of my friends graduated in 3 years at many different schools. I didn't even really plan it. I just figured out that I could graduate a year early. It's not that hard.

I should add, after all of this, that there are six year BS/MD programs in the United States but they are very competitive and demanding.

Tulane (which is a first rate university with a great medical school) has a 6+1 program.

TULANE ACCELERATED PHYSICIAN TRAINING PROGRAM (TAP-TP, 6+1)

Tulane offers a 7-year program (TAP-TP, 6+1) that includes an undergraduate and medical education in addition to a mandatory year of public service with AmeriCorps.

Tulane has a long history of public and community service, requiring community service in the medical school curriculum for over 20 years. As New Orleans is an underserved community (especially following Hurricane Katrina) and Louisiana a low-income state, the marriage of an educational program and public service is a natural mix for Tulane.

Exceptional high school students will apply to the TAP-TP.Eligible students will be expected to have high levels of academic performance as judged by transcripts, SAT/ACT scores and AP scores. Students will be interviewed by a committee of undergraduate faculty, medical school faculty and administrators. Between 10 and 20 students would be accepted each year.

TAP-TP Students will complete an abbreviated undergraduate curriculum designed around a BS in Molecular and Cellular Biology with emphasis on the application of scientific principles for the public good. Undergraduate performance would be a requisite for continuing in the program. TAP-TP Students will have bi-monthly conference style workshops designed to both track the students and develop skills necessary for the practice of medicine.

Following completion of 2 years towards the BS degree requirements, students will begin a one-year public service commitment with AmeriCorps. Students will then enter the 4-year medical school curriculum.

 

[gm]

Undergraduate degree is the new high school diploma.

 

[AndyLL]

I agree with you.

Not only that, but jobs these days are requiring college degrees that really shouldn't. I see a lot of customer service jobs that want a 4 year degree. Sorry but I did that job years ago, you don't need a degree for that. I don't know what is going on, before too long, you will need a degree to work at McDonald's.

When I was a manager at Casa Bonita in Denver we required our managers to have degrees.

In general someone with a college degree has proved they are self motivated, has advanced problem solving skills, can read/write/speak at a high level, understand teamwork, has time management skills, and has at least a general understanding of history, math and science.

A entry level customer service job might not need all those skills but a customer service team leader or manager does.

Why would you want companies to hire people that have a built in glass ceiling?

 

[klacey1]

I agree with you. Everything I learned or developed in college could easily have been done in 3 or 4 semesters.

 

[Christine]

In some situations I agree, in some not. I do think doctors, lawyers, etc. should be as educated as possible. The undergrad portion of the degree is pretty much a "vetting" process if you will to see if you can make it through that *easy* stuff.

As for the rest of us, I don't know. My daughter, who is in college, has been spending a lot of time looking for a summer, part time job and it is just UNREAL the amount of jobs such as admin assistants, office help, etc. that have a requirement for a 4 year degree. It's laughable really. Office workers who push paper don't need a degree. I am surrounded by many great workers who do not have a degree but have exceptional organization skills and work ethic. I am also around many people with a 4 year plus degree who hardly know which direction to turn in the hallway to get to the bathroom.

 

[mhsjax]

When I was a manager at Casa Bonita in Denver we required our managers to have degrees.

In general someone with a college degree has proved they are self motivated, has advanced problem solving skills, can read/write/speak at a high level, understand teamwork, has time management skills, and has at least a general understanding of history, math and science.

A entry level customer service job might not need all those skills but a customer service team leader or manager does.

Why would you want companies to hire people that have a built in glass ceiling?

Well first of all, why would I want a regular customer service job after I spent 4 years in college. Sorry, but I wouldn't spend my time on that after 4 years.

Second, some people don't care about breaking the glass ceiling. Big news flash, some people just want a job that makes them some extra money, they don't want the big career. I never wanted to be a manager. I went in did my job, got GREAT reviews, never wanted anything else. Hubby made more than enough to support us, and I didn't want the added stress.
And trust me, it doesn't take a college degree to understand team work, and no one understands time management better than a mom of 3 kids all doing different things at the same time. lol

And really, college is the only place you get a "GENERAL" understanding of math, english, and science? wow, why did I go to high school for general stuff then? Just wondering.

Hubby area of employment doesn't have a mandatory college degree stipulation. In fact during his training, a lot of people with a masters degree didn't make it. I realize most jobs do take a college degree, but not all jobs do.

 

[Took]

You mentioned you wanted to get your B.A in History. Well...l I hate to break it to you but a lot of those general ed. classes are actually pretty important.

The English classes- Help you learn to write the many papers you will be assigned.

Classes such as Geography- will help you identify where the places were/ are located on a map.

Classes like Economics- help you understand how resources impact History in the form of War ect.

I could go on...but I won't

and FYI... I say this as someone who just graduated last week with a B.A in History

Not to mention that part of teaching history is teaching the history of science and math, both of which you'll understand MUCH better when you learn the basics in those subjects. DH has a PhD in history and says historians really need the broadest background possible. History is about context.

OP, I'll say it too. You're being ridiculous...somewhat. I agree that far too many jobs require college degrees. However, those requirements wouldn't be necessary if our high schools were as demanding as they needed to be....

 

[barkley]

around here a kid can graduate from high school and get their bachelor's degree in 2 years.

the high schools and state colleges have agreed with some of those posting on this thread-that the general ed courses are largely a repeat of what the high school grads have just learned. so the schools got together and set up a program where a junior whose maintianed a decent gpa in their 2 prior years can take (at the physical college or on-line) their lower division general ed courses so that they earn dual credit (college and high school).

some kids do all their general ed this way, some pick and choose which courses.

we are attending a graduation party next week for a neighbor's daughter-she's graduating from high school, has been accepted at college and will enter directly into the upper division course work. she will graduate with her degree in 2 years.

the bonus is-those 2 years she did as a high school student were tuition free

dh got his degree in less than 3 years. he did an excellerated program that included him clepping out the maximum allowable courses (but he had an excellent high school education that realy served him well on those cleps).

 

[ThanksForNoticingMe]

Well first of all, why would I want a regular customer service job after I spent 4 years in college. Sorry, but I wouldn't spend my time on that after 4 years.

Second, some people don't care about breaking the glass ceiling. Big news flash, some people just want a job that makes them some extra money, they don't want the big career. I never wanted to be a manager. I went in did my job, got GREAT reviews, never wanted anything else. Hubby made more than enough to support us, and I didn't want the added stress.
And trust me, it doesn't take a college degree to understand team work, and no one understands time management better than a mom of 3 kids all doing different things at the same time. lol

And really, college is the only place you get a "GENERAL" understanding of math, english, and science? wow, why did I go to high school for general stuff then? Just wondering.

Hubby area of employment doesn't have a mandatory college degree stipulation. In fact during his training, a lot of people with a masters degree didn't make it. I realize most jobs do take a college degree, but not all jobs do.

The general ed. classes in college are more advanced than high school classes. Your reasoning doesn't really make sense. For example, following your line of reasoning....why should anyone take U.S and World History in High School, when they already took History classes in Elementary School.

Education is a building process. The general ed. classes build upon what one should have learned in high school....and prepare students for their upper level major classes.

Bottom Line- If you don't want to put in the time and work to get your degree....don't.

But to insinuate High School and College classes are the same is ridiculous.

 

[mhsjax]

The general ed. classes in college are more advanced than high school classes. Your reasoning doesn't really make sense. For example, following your line of reasoning....why should anyone take U.S and World History in High School, when they already took History classes in Elementary School.

Education is a building process. The general ed. classes build upon what one should have learned in high school....and prepare students for their upper level major classes.

Bottom Line- If you don't want to put in the time and work to get your degree....don't.

But to insinuate High School and College classes are the same is ridiculous.

I didn't say that they were the same, but I was responding to a "general knowledge" of these things. I NEVER insinuated that they were the same. OH and by the way, some of my lower level classes were pretty much the same as high school. You can't judge all high school and colleges the same.

I am not arguing against college at all, but just stating that some jobs that require college degrees, really shouldn't, they don't need one to do the job.

 

[dejr_8]

Undergraduate degree is the new high school diploma.

And we have a WINNER. HS is so watered down that the diploma has been made meaningless.

Now for medical school question I don't see the need to receive a four year degree before becoming a physician. Maybe a year or two dedicated to prerequisites.

And don't tell me a Pre-med degree is demanding because I will put the curriculum of an BS Chemical Engineering program up against any Pre-med one for overall difficulty.

 

[chisnpeke]

You mentioned you wanted to get your B.A in History. Well...l I hate to break it to you but a lot of those general ed. classes are actually pretty important.

The English classes- Help you learn to write the many papers you will be assigned.

Classes such as Geography- will help you identify where the places were/ are located on a map.

Classes like Economics- help you understand how resources impact History in the form of War ect.

I could go on...but I won't

and FYI... I say this as someone who just graduated last week with a B.A in History

The required English comp classes I have taken have taught me nothing that I didn't learn in high school. I do not mind taking literature classes, etc. I do not have to take geography...it's an option but not required.

The things that annoy me are the required english classes, math classes, science...that are just 100 level classes and are nothing that I didn't learn in high school. I feel it is a waste to pay $700 for three days a week of repeat information.

 

[Christine]

And we have a WINNER. HS is so watered down that the diploma has been made meaningless.

Maybe I live in some bubble but it was my impression that high school was a lot better than when I went in the 80s. Sure, my high school taught me more "workforce" skills than what I am seeing them doing now, but certainly the caliber of my children's HS classes are much more in-depth/intense than the classes I ever took. I thought I had also read that students had made significant gains in SAT scores over the students of the early 80s. Now, could it be that they dumbed down the SAT tests? I don't know. I just didn't get the impression that HS had become watered down. I do think a lot of life skills they could be/should be teaching have been removed and I'm not so sure you get them in college either. But I think that the push for "you need a bachelors degree for everything" has certainly devalued the high school diploma.

 

[chisnpeke]

The general ed. classes in college are more advanced than high school classes. Your reasoning doesn't really make sense. For example, following your line of reasoning....why should anyone take U.S and World History in High School, when they already took History classes in Elementary School.

Education is a building process. The general ed. classes build upon what one should have learned in high school....and prepare students for their upper level major classes.

Bottom Line- If you don't want to put in the time and work to get your degree....don't.

But to insinuate High School and College classes are the same is ridiculous.

The english classes I took in high school were harder than the english classes I have taken in college. I am talking about the required english for all students at the university (101, 102 and a third section). I went to a very good high school and found that the work I did there was harder than what I did in my first year english courses.

College is more difficult than high school but there are some courses that can be cut out...maybe by testing out of them or something. I in no way needed to take the basics of english composition all over again.

 

[TheZue]

The required English comp classes I have taken have taught me nothing that I didn't learn in high school. I do not mind taking literature classes, etc. I do not have to take geography...it's an option but not required.

The things that annoy me are the required english classes, math classes, science...that are just 100 level classes and are nothing that I didn't learn in high school. I feel it is a waste to pay $700 for three days a week of repeat information.

All that means is you came from a decent high school. There are many schools that people will leave and they don't already know it. If the education system worked and post graduate schools could be assured that everyone learned what they were supposed to you wouldn't have to pay $700 for review. Unfortunately they can't be assured of that because a TON of students come out of the system with good grades that don't know the basics.

 

[chisnpeke]

Get yourself in to see someone in advising! Honestly, if there's not something worthwhile that you can take to fulfil those requirements, you're at the wrong school. Wasting two years of your time and money taking something that isn't worthwhile ends up reflecting badly on YOU!

There are some worthwhile courses...some that I have really enjoyed. Basic english, math and science? Nope. I already knew most of the things taught. I go to a school with over 35,000 students. There is a wide array of students so the 100 level courses that are required are kind of dumbed down.

 

[DawnM]

Yup!

There is no reason to go to an expensive school unless you plan to specialize in something that may need the "right" school. For 90% of the jobs out there, the local 4 year state school will suffice. You can specialize in grad school if you need to.

There are many, many threads on college paying on the Budget Board on the Dis, but the bottom line is, there are cheaper alternatives.

As far as not doing a 4 year college education, well, yeah, that is silly.

Dawn

I think you're being ridiculous, but that's just my opinion. I don't want any professional to go directly to graduate school without first having the basic education provided by a college liberal arts/sciences curriculum. I also don't want a doctor operating on me at age 22 or 23. Again, that's just me.

There are many ways to get an undergraduate education without debt, including working and going part-time, going to summer school as a full-time student, and choosing community college for some or all of the undergraduate coursework.