Why does BWV have the highest fees?

When we attended the DVC Member's add-on sales pitch...er I mean get together on our cruise, the guide attributed BLTs low MFs to the fact it was a high rise building with little landscaping. This may also be a factor in addition to the room / villa split.

From a pure financial perspective (including landscaping..) I think it is reasonable to believe BLT MF's do not need to go up. BLT fees/room are more than SSR but less than BWV.

From a psych. perspective, it would feel easier to raise BLT points more. Legally, DVC should not be able to "pocket" extra MF's so who knows :confused3
 
For what its worth (and not that we necessarily believed it), our guide told us that the resorts with enclosed hallways had higher maintenance fees because of the electric used to keep the hallways cool as well as to maintain the hallways,i.e. carpeting, shampooing. Outside entranceways cost much less to maintain by simply hosing them down. Out guide was pretty upfront when AKV came on the market and told us he expects AKV to eventually have the highest maintenance fees because besides the inside hallways, there is the shared cost with AKL to maintain the animals.
 
Of all the DVC resorts, I believe that Vero Beach has the highest fees, in the $6.00 range. Anybody know for sure and what about Hilton Head? :cool2:
 
Of all the DVC resorts, I believe that Vero Beach has the highest fees, in the $6.00 range. Anybody know for sure and what about Hilton Head? :cool2:

Sorry, I should have clarified that I was only inquiring about the resorts at WDW.
 

When we attended the DVC Member's add-on sales pitch...er I mean get together on our cruise, the guide attributed BLTs low MFs to the fact it was a high rise building with little landscaping. This may also be a factor in addition to the room / villa split.

Add to that only one pool to maintain and less elevators to inspect every year.
 
When we attended the DVC Member's add-on sales pitch...er I mean get together on our cruise, the guide attributed BLTs low MFs to the fact it was a high rise building with little landscaping. This may also be a factor in addition to the room / villa split.

What about the fact that it's a brand new resort? What is there to maintain when it first opens?
 
Don't forget the cost for the Boardwalk entertainment!

Are we paying for that? I hope not, the boardwalk itself is not part of the timeshare owned property. I never recall seeing that accounted for in the BWV budget. I'm away visiting relatives so I don't have access to the POS.
 
The indoor LOOOOOOOONG hallways have lots of carpet to vacuum and replace.
Lots of walls to paint. Lots more doors to keep up....and those hallways are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY
TOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
COOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLD! As a BWV MF payer- I would appreciate it in so many ways if they would please turn the A/C down just a little bit....my wife's teeth were chattering as we waited for elevators -and it was AUGUST!
 
Interesting idea ... but makes me all the more happy to stay at BWV using points from SSR.

remember that once the treehouse start to need work expect the fees on SSR to rise.

60 individual houses are going to require more upkeep than the rest of SSR.
 
A big reason that BWV points are more is because of the standard points. Because DVC changed the total number of points available, it increased the MFs because fewer points are covering the expenses.

I have heard that if you do the math to turn standard points into preferred points, that BWV MFs are almost identical to BCV.
 
Right now, AKV's MF's are subsidized by Disney until the resort sells out. Once it sells out, you should see an adjustment to those MF's. I wouldn't be surprised if they don't get right up there with BWV.

The AKV subsidy has been eliminated as of the 2009 budget, and AKV is still about 5% less than BWV.

The purpose of a subsidy is to avoid charging a small population of owners for the full cost of amenities designed for a much larger population. In other words, if AKV were only projected to be 50% sold by the end of 2009, those owner should not have to pay the full cost of operating the main pool or front desk.

If the subsidy is calculated properly, it should disappear organically once the resort is completely sold.

For what its worth (and not that we necessarily believed it), our guide told us that the resorts with enclosed hallways had higher maintenance fees because of the electric used to keep the hallways cool as well as to maintain the hallways,i.e. carpeting, shampooing. Outside entranceways cost much less to maintain by simply hosing them down. Out guide was pretty upfront when AKV came on the market and told us he expects AKV to eventually have the highest maintenance fees because besides the inside hallways, there is the shared cost with AKL to maintain the animals.

I'm sure there is some truth to the hallways costing more, but it's probably pennies over a full resort's budget. At SSR the 2009 utilities budget is $.30 per point. For BWV it is $.37.

As others have said, the biggest factor at BWV is the low point Standard View rooms. Those Standard View units add fewer points to the system, which means each point carries a higher portion of the dues burden. If the Standard View rooms had instead been classed the same as other Preferred View, the additional points at BWV would effectively reduce the budget by at least 5% per year.

Aside from that, there will always be differences from one resort to another. Variations in building materials used, construction methods, resort amenities, refurbishment timelines, etc.

As for AKV passing BWV, that certainly could happen. Right now BWV is only 7% higher. If BWV were to increase at a rate of 3% annually and AKV 4% annually, it would only take 8-9 years for AKV to pass BWV. Whether or not that happens remains to be seen.

Add to that only one pool to maintain and less elevators to inspect every year.

The Contemporary resort will have at least two pools once BLT opens and owners will most likely share in the cost of maintaining both.

I'm sure there are some reductions due to the smaller footprint of the BLT resort, but the biggest difference compared to others is the higher point charts. More points sharing the dues burden means each point contributes less.

disneynutz said:
What about the fact that it's a brand new resort? What is there to maintain when it first opens?

BLT may be brand new but there will still be a maintenance budget. I believe it's slated at $.30 per point which is a few pennies less than SSR and AKV. But BLT owners will begin contributing to the Capital Reserve fund from day one. Over $.80 per point of their dues will go into the fund to help pay for roof replacements and parking lot repaving projects years down the road.
 
hakepb had a great idea, looking at the cost per week of staying at resorts. I've put the following together, using the Magic Season.

If anyone wants my Excel spreadsheet, send me a PM with your email and I'll send it to you.

One Week, Magic Season
Resort MF Points Cost
AKV $4.86 Studio V 97 $471.42
S 110 $534.60
SV 135 $656.10
C 155 $753.30
1BR V 189 $918.54
S 225 $1,093.50
SV 268 $1,302.48
C 313 $1,521.18
2BR V 256 $1,244.16
S 283 $1,375.38
SV 360 $1,749.60
C 423 $2,055.78
GV SV 735 $3,572.10
BCV $5.00 Studio All 134 $670.00
1BR All 270 $1,350.00
2BR All 350 $1,750.00
BLT $3.72 Studio SV 137 $509.64
LV 151 $561.72
MK 182 $677.04
1BR SV 270 $1,004.40
LV 298 $1,108.56
MK 360 $1,339.20
2BR SV 351 $1,305.72
LV 388 $1,443.36
MK 468 $1,740.96
GV LV 882 $3,281.04
MK 1065 $3,961.80
BWV $5.21 Studio S 111 $578.31
B/P 134 $698.14
1BR S 222 $1,156.62
B/P 270 $1,406.70
2BR S 306 $1,594.26
B/P 350 $1,823.50
GV B/P 800 $4,168.00
OKW $4.73 Studio All 109 $515.57
1BR All 218 $1,031.14
2BR All 296 $1,400.08
GV All 501 $2,369.73
SSR $4.34 Studio All 109 $473.06
1BR All 218 $946.12
2BR All 296 $1,284.64
GV All 501 $2,174.34
VWL $5.04 Studio All 134 $675.36
1BR All 270 $1,360.80
2BR All 350 $1,764.00


One Week, Dream Season
HHI does not have a Magic Season
Note: Dates for seasons do not align
Resort MF Points Cost
HHI $5.36 Studio All 118 $632.48
1BR All 222 $1,189.92
2BR All 280 $1,500.80
GV All 490 $2,626.40
VB $6.41 IRGV All 102 $653.82
IROV All 118 $756.38
Studio All 118 $756.38
1BR All 216 $1,384.56
2BR All 289 $1,852.49
Cottage All 529 $3,390.89
 
Wow, that didn't format at all. Does anyone know how to source in an Excel spreadsheet so it formats?
 
The AKV subsidy has been eliminated as of the 2009 budget, and AKV is still about 5% less than BWV.
Tim, can you post where you found this info? All of Kidani is not even released, I don't know how they can eliminate the subsidy yet?
 
remember that once the treehouse start to need work expect the fees on SSR to rise.

60 individual houses are going to require more upkeep than the rest of SSR.

Could be, but I suspect the amounts will be negligible. The treehouses are only 60 out of nearly 900 units at SSR. The budget has over 14 million points at the resort. A dues increase of just $.01 per point nets $140,000 in revenue.

Adding an extra half-million annually (MORE than generous, IMO) to the budget for added maintenance on the treehouses is less than a 1% total dues increase. Negligible.
 
Tim, can you post where you found this info? All of Kidani is not even released, I don't know how they can eliminate the subsidy yet?

I have a copy of the 2009 budget and there is no subsidy listed.

It could be that DVC is projecting the entire resort to be sold-out by the end of 2009. It lists 286 units as being the basis for the dues calculations, and that figure is clearly some sort of average. For January - April there will only be 130+ units (or however many are at Jambo.)

If memory serves the subsidy was only $.07 per point in 2008. So Disney may have simply decided to remove it since it didn't cause any bumps in the year-to-year budget (total increase was only 3% for 2009.)

It's somewhat immaterial since the fine print of the budgets states that member liability is limited to the dollars stated in the budget. The total projected budget for AKV in 2009 is a little over $13 million. If it actually costs $14 million to operate the resort, Disney has to pick up the tab on that. Even without a stated subsidy, Disney is responsible for any overruns.
 
Thanks for the great info.

I hate to ask again, but is SSR currently being subsidized? If so, do you know how much this will affect the mf once the subsidizing ends?
 
I have a copy of the 2009 budget and there is no subsidy listed.

It could be that DVC is projecting the entire resort to be sold-out by the end of 2009. It lists 286 units as being the basis for the dues calculations, and that figure is clearly some sort of average. For January - April there will only be 130+ units (or however many are at Jambo.)

If memory serves the subsidy was only $.07 per point in 2008. So Disney may have simply decided to remove it since it didn't cause any bumps in the year-to-year budget (total increase was only 3% for 2009.)

It's somewhat immaterial since the fine print of the budgets states that member liability is limited to the dollars stated in the budget. The total projected budget for AKV in 2009 is a little over $13 million. If it actually costs $14 million to operate the resort, Disney has to pick up the tab on that. Even without a stated subsidy, Disney is responsible for any overruns.
So basically, the true MF's for AKV still are not known at this time. What ever modifications they made in this years budget in no way precludes what adjustments future dues will be for AKV, especially once all of Kidani is sold out. I would not hold my breath on the dues amounts for AKV as being anywhere decided simply based on the 2009 budget.....
 
So basically, the true MF's for AKV still are not known at this time. What ever modifications they made in this years budget in no way precludes what adjustments future dues will be for AKV, especially once all of Kidani is sold out. I would not hold my breath on the dues amounts for AKV as being anywhere decided simply based on the 2009 budget.....

Historically Disney has done a pretty good job of maintaining an even keel with regard to budgets. Take a look at the history for SSR. As of 2009 its subsidy is also gone (to also answer Carolc's question) yet the average increase since 2004 is 2.7%. So in going from 5 years of partial subsidies to zero subsidy, there was no abnormal bump in the dues.

I think you'll see a similar patten with other resorts.

Although the 2009 budget for AKV does not represent a full year's costs for all expenses, most expenses are tied to the size of the resort. When you go from an average of 286 units to the full 450 units, the budgets for things like front desk staff, maintenance, housekeeping and utilities will all rise at a similar rate. Sure the total expenses will go up, but so will the number of units (points) sharing in that cost.

At this point there really isn't a precedent to suggest that AKV dues will rise by some abnormally high figure just because of the removal of a subsidy and all units coming on-line.
 



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