Why are toddlers second-class citizens on DCL??

[MiaSRN62]

If they start doing things the same as Carnival, then why wouldn't you take a carnival cruise and pay half the cost. Disney chose their core audiences for the cruise, and caters to them.

Well I would hardly expect them to comprimise their standards to accomodate families like mine ! Or worse yet---become generic in some way ! Gosh forbid ! But the major part of my family is their target audience too----11 and 12 years old. I just hate to see one of my three children excluded from alot of stuff onboard once he turns 18----poor kid is still gonna be in HS yet Disney can't find a way to make them happy ? I don't feel excluding certain age groups is what makes DCL so special. But I'm beginning to see the way some of you think it is

And I think they said "little kids and older teens are too much bother, lets discourage too many of them from being on the ship and focus on people whose kids are 4-10 and adults who are Disney fans."

Gotta agree here----they do a good job of discouraging certain age groups ----and they do that very well
Yet they can hype "Magical Gatherings" (bring the family of ALL ages to WDW.....there should be a disclaimer for toddlers and older teens for their land and sea bookings I feel).

 

[Grumbo]

Just as a bit of trivia thrown in here.
Flounders was apparently an afterthought. (this according to the walking tour given on the Magic earlier in the month). They initially didn't think many people would cruise with babies. They then rethought it and the nursery which was designated as storage I believe was transformed into Flounders. Now this was all done before the building of the ship but I found it interesting.

Cheers,
Grumbo

 

[crisi]

Mia, don't get the impression I disapprove of toddlers or young adults on the ship. I certainly don't. And I can see the benefits of having more for them (DCL certainly would have gotten our vacation dollars faster as we waited for three and potty trained with our youngest before booking. And we won't be doing a family vacation on their ship as it has absolutely no appeal to my 30 year old single sister who prefers a "faster crowd" than DCL is likely to offer). But from a "business perspective" I can understand why they wouldn't. They can't be all things to all people. So they pick and choose where they want to excel. As they don't seem to have a problem filling the ship, they don't seem to need to expand their market.

 

[MiaSRN62]

As they don't seem to have a problem filling the ship, they don't seem to need to expand their market.

You're right.....can't argue there. I just wish DCL wasn't "pushing me off" (so to say) any future cruises with them. This is how I feel at this point because I can't jeopordize my 17 yr ds's experience onboard the ship just so the rest of us can have a blast. We all love Disney but I have to think about all of my kids and what kind of quality cruise they are going to get and it's sad to think that because of the 17 year old cut-off (and not having alternatives for the 18-20 bracket) that we'll be forced to going with another line. I really do trust and look forward to the Disney quality, but will have to start doing my homework and research the other lines more after this year is over

 

[norma30]

I am sometimes amazed at the comments parents make when regarding toddlers on these boards. Those with older children must have forgotten what the "terrible two" years are like. My daughter hated the Mickey Ear as did others her age. She is just discovering the fun of swimming. The little sprinklers just didnt interest her. The older kids would come and lounge out in the ear but wouldnt stay long as it is BORING!

What I hate more than anything are the comments regarding strollers. If I want to go for an evening stroll with my husband without having to chase my DD around I would bring my stroller. If my daughter was justing waking up from a nap and we had to be at dinner it came with us. I understand that sometimes certain areas can get tight but this is a DISNEY cruise....arent strollers to be expected.

I used Flounders for my DD (22 mo) and they were fabulous. I wish they could make a toddler club...maybe for 18mo - 3. They could change diapers there but also plan activites there and have more of a developed play area. I for one would pay a fee to cover for extra personnel. They could move some Flounders CM's there as Flounders would be used as much.

Please do not tell me I should wait until my DD is older or potty trained. She experienced so much on the past cruise. The smiles every time she saw Mickey, dancing with Goofy, and hours plaing on the beach were worth every penny. Disney is a great family vacation but they should work on including everyone in the family.

Thanks to Jodifla for speaking up.

 

[makaylee]

Originally posted by DVCLady
I know my son won't be potty trained fully for the August cruise but we still had to pay the fare for the kids clubs because he will be 3 at that time. On top of paying the fare for the kids clubs, we have to pay for flounders just to have some time without the kids. It's Like paying double.

Would be nice if Flounder's was built into the cruise price and we didn't have to worry about getting ressies for it.

I dont think DCL looks at it in terms of paying for certain clubs. I read earlier that they were going to let a potty trained "nearly 3 yo" go to the kids club even though the parents werent paying for a 3 yo.

 

[MrsPete]

I agree with the posters who've said that Disney has chosen to go with its strength -- its target audience.

I can think of many vacations I want to take with my girls:

I want to take them white water rafting, but my youngest is too light to be allowed in a boat -- so we have to wait.
I want to rent a houseboat for a week, but my youngest cannot swim well, and I'd be afraid for her every minute -- so we have to wait.
I want them to ride down into the Grand Canyon on pack mules, but they're certainly not ready for that -- so we have to wait.
I want to take them to Washington DC and New York City, but they aren't really old enough to appreciate the things we'd do there -- so we have to wait.
I want to take them to a very rustic mountain lodge near us -- you have to backpack in, no cars, no roads. They don't yet have the stamina to walk so far with a pack -- so we have to wait.

Hmmm . . . I don't think my girls will be at home long enough to do all the things I want to do with them.

However, there are tons of things that are perfect for my girls right now. Disney park vacations are perfect for right now. A week in a beach-front condo or a mountain cabin are perfect for right now. A trip to Amish country would be perfect for right now. Again, this list could go on.

There's a right time for everything, and we Americans aren't that good at waiting. Accept that a Disney cruise is best for school aged children, appreciate what you have right now, and don't waste energy wishing for something that will come soon enough.

 

[Bopperdoodle]

If the main reason for keeping a child under three in flounders is because they can't go to the bathroom without help then why should one that can take care of those issues not be allowed to go up. My daughter is 2 1/2 and is potty trained. She does not need any help with her clothes. (I make sure she has on clothes that are easy for her to pull up and down) She will be 3 years old two months after our cruise. I am afraid she will be bored in Flounders. She is use to being in daycare with older children. Do they make any exceptions?

 

[CM_Mom]

Mrs Pete,

I couldn't have said it better myself. For all of you who are "waiting" for your toddlers to be big enough for the club, I'm really pleased that you can take your kids on a Disney cruise. Folks like you are providing my DD with her dream job.

But to put things in perspective, we're waiting to go on our FIRST cruise when DD completes her contract. We'll get to spend a whole week on the ship with our youngest child...who will be almost 25.

We've been to WDW as a family and been on some wonderful camping vacations (they're really cheap) with our kids. The last of those was last summer and was a real treat..DH, me and DS (27) and DD(24) for a week at Guadalupe Mountains National Park.

Sometimes we need to stop, count our blessings and appreciate the things we have.

 

[aprilgail2]

Originally posted by Bopperdoodle
She will be 3 years old two months after our cruise. I am afraid she will be bored in Flounders. She is use to being in daycare with older children. Do they make any exceptions?

I hope they make and exception for her, my daughter was 2 1/2 and bored in flounders, it is more for the 6-18 month group.

 

[CM_Mom]

Booperdoodle, I don't know and will probably forget to ask when I talk to DD on Saturday but it can't hurt to ask about a "trial basis" participation while you're on the ship and can come easily when paged. The worst that can happen is that they say no.

 

[jodifla]

Well, I just don't buy that argument. I'm not trying to take DS on a Grand Canyon trip or whitewater rafting or skydiving, I'm trying to take him on a cruise, for heaven's sake. It's not like it's not done all the time.

And if it were any other cruise line, I would think, well, the toddler audience is not what they're interrested in. I could buy that.

But I can tell you from our toy and video collection, toddlers (on up) are EXACTLY Disney's target audience!

I think earlier posts probably have it the most correct: Disney greatly underestimated the interest that preschooler parents would have in taking cruises. Does Disney really want to be outmarketed by other cruise lines in this area? I mean, if you have three children, and waited until all were out of diapers and at least three, you wouldn't be taking a Disney cruise until the oldest was almost 8 or 9. That's a whole lot of money going to other vacations.

If Disney decides to build other ships, I'll bet you see different programs on those ships for these early toddler years. But I agree with previous posters who point out that since there are only two Disney ships now, demand is high and this isn't financially crucial to them.

But for me, someone who has gone to Disney all her life, there's something decidedly unDisney about it.

 

[Karel]

Honestly, when my kids were toddlers, I wouldn't even think about taking them on a cruise. I wanted to wait till they were older so we could all find things to enjoy and they could enjoy going to the clubs if they wanted. We didn't go on our first cruise until our youngest was 8.

I don't really think Disney is marketed towards the toddler set. My kids weren't really interested in the movies until four or five.
My daughter at three fell asleep while watching Little Mermaid in the movie theatre. Did not interest her one bit.

I read through posts and no one is happy with the clubs. People say their child is too mature for their age grouping, the tweens aren't happy in the lab, there's nothing for older teens to do. Shouldn't there be rules and age cut offs or should it be a free for all - put your child where you think they will be happy. My 12 year old does not want to be in the lab with a 6 year old. And my 7 year old is not going to want to hang out where a 3 year olds diaper is being changed.

I thought 18 yo were allowed to do all the adult shows and things?

If you have concerns about a toddler program, write to Disney. Express your thoughts on this subject. It should be easy to add toys and games in Flounders that would please a toddler. I have never been into Flounders so I don't know what is there now.

I do think there are abuse issues in the bathroom that they have to be wary about. Are the diaper changing places in a main area where most of the people are?

 

[Penny12]

You know - I'm a firm believer in the theory that vacation is what <i>you</i> make of it

Let's face it, we all know that with very little ones that it's often us as adults who have the high expectations of wanting lots of 'good' things for our kids to do - but really, just how many times do we have to watch them unwrapping their Christmas or Birthday pressies with their really cool plaything, only to watch them play with the box?

I am sure you will all have a truly <b>wonderful</b> and magical time on your cruise. You have a full day at CC should your little one not be impressed with the Mickey Ear the pool - they will have a blast with you playing in the sea and digging in the sand! Hopefully you'll be able to get some time in Flounders booked where you'll be able to have some relaxing time to yourselves too

 

[MiaSRN62]

I want to take them white water rafting, but my youngest is too light to be allowed in a boat -- so we have to wait. I want to rent a houseboat for a week, but my youngest cannot swim well, and I'd be afraid for her every minute -- so we have to wait.

I don't think a Disney cruise can be compared to any of these examples. Disney prides themselves and boasts that they are a full-faceted family vacation destination. The Disney name is synonymous with family/kids and encourage us all to bring the whole family (i.e. Magical Gatherings). Yet us families with a child who is toddler-aged or over 17 are left-out. I fully realize that there are other vacations out there that are inappropriate for certain ages such as the ones you listed but those never claimed what Disney does. It's not just that we can wait for our time to come with DCL. I have 2 other children who love Disney and that's the only ship they want to cruise with, yet I have to have my high schooler left out because he'll be 18 ? Not sure how many kids Jodifla has, but her toddler shouldn't be left out of programming. And what happens if/when she has a second child and when they're only 2 1/2 or 3 and her first child is 6 or 7----how does she balance her day so that perhaps she and her husband can do something ?

I thought 18 yo were allowed to do all the adult shows and things?

Here's my problem......the adult areas contain alcohol/adult oriented content (at times) and my son will be 18 during his senior year of high school. I hardly consider hanging out in the adult clubs a viable option for him ? Would you put your high schooler in those situations ? I don't agree with it. I think the teen club should encompass 18 year olds because the majority of them are still in HS ??? As an added plus, it would be nice (though I doubt it'll ever happen) if they had some sort of gathering for 18-20 year olds who can't drink. I know in areas scattered around here there are non-alcoholic dance clubs and such for this age group. No way should a HS 18 year old be expected to join in with full-adult activities.

Shouldn't there be rules and age cut offs or should it be a free for all

I personally never suggested this---rather there should be activities for the ages (toddlers/18+) that is age-specific to them. I just can't believe this would be so difficult. Even if it wasn't as full-scale as the other clubs, they should at least have a few activity offerings during the cruise ? Can't be that difficult ?

Disney greatly underestimated the interest that preschooler parents would have in taking cruises

I agree with Jodifla and add older teens to that group. I particularily have a problem with age 18 who are still in HS and hardly should be considered fare for adult activities as someone suggested was ok. My 2 younger kids dd's 11 & 12 (who love the kids clubs on the DCL) will be very disappointed when I tell them we won't be cruising with Disney next year because they're older brother will have no activities available to him.
Sorry Jodifla if you feel that I hijacked your thread and added older teens to your subject but I felt it was relevant and very similar circumstances arise between these two age groups with trying to balance family activities with various aged children. I feel I share your frustration, just in a different way. I think some people are making comments that the way the system is now is ok and I don't feel they can put themselves in our situation. Everyone is entitled to their opinion of course, but how do you balance everyone's enjoyment on a family cruise vacation when some of the family aren't included in ship activities ?

 

[jodifla]

Actually, WebmasterPenny is right...kids can be happy doing the smaller things ...like exploring the ship, for example.

From reading the navigators and from reading these boards, I do feel like I could keep DS occupied and happy on a three-day cruise. Since we live in South Florida, cruises are more doable for us -- no plane ride involved. And since he's not yet 3, we won't have to pay for him, and we can go at off times, when the price is half or less of what you pay in peak times.

We'll most likely do that to get our feet wet, then wait 18 months or so until he's all set with potty-training, then go for a 7-day cruise.

From looking at the prices though, we'll probably stop going once he hits school age. DCL prices are astronomical in summer, spring break and fall -- just when you can take school-age kids!

 

[jodifla]

Maria, I was happy for all your input. Another side of the coin, and one I hadn't thought about! 18 seems so far away now!

I agree exactly with your comments that Disney markets itself as a total family vacation. I wouldn't expect to take my toddler aboard the Queen Mary, for example. But a Disney ship?

 

[MiaSRN62]

Another side of the coin, and one I hadn't thought about! 18 seems so far away now!

Yep ! It's gotten here way too fast for my liking ! It just sort of creeps up on you I remember my youngest was 2 when we first took the kids to Disney----now she's 11 !

From looking at the prices though, we'll probably stop going once he hits school age. DCL prices are astronomical in summer, spring break and fall -- just when you can take school-age kids!

I'll admit....we take our kids out of school (but this is a whole 'nother topic ! Luckily our school district is cool with this)

 

[markmyboy]

WOW....we take our 5 year old and (almost) 2year old on Disney because the other cruise lines offer NOTHING for the under 2 year olds!! Carnival is the ONLY line that let's 2 year olds in. Most of the others are 3 years old AND potty trained!! Flounders is an awesome place that my son enjoyed when he was 2 & almost 3 and my daughter enjoyed just a few monthes ago.

I think if you are all so disatisfied with DCL you SHOULD try those other lines & see just what they offer for these groups you are saying are not included. You cannot take a non potty trained child in ANY cruise ship pool, it is a rule across the board, not just on DCL. We have tried Carnival & Norwegian & have returned to DCL because they offer EVERYTHING for EVERYONE in our family, including my 18 & 14 year old sisters. We will be trying Royal Carribean in October and we hope we love it as much as DCL, as it is much cheaper, but we will see!!??!! What activities do you want for your 18 year old ? What do you thinhk the other cruiselines offer kids this age?

I just think that someone that would complain about the facilities that DCL DOES offer would probably find something to complain about on any other cruise vacation they take as well. You just can't make some people happy!?! If what everyone wants is for their whole family to be included, than they need to be able to discern what that will be for their family, maybe it is not a cruise!?! Maybe children need to learn that they will not always get everything they want!?! But why would they when they are taught to expect it from their parents??

We have gone on cruises & NEVER used the kids club, but still had a great time, just try to have fun with your kids another way. Enjoy the ports of call, enjoy exploring the ship, try playing some basketball. There are endless amounts of things to do, but you might actually have to spend some time with the kids. If you do want adult time alone, spending 2 hours playing with toys will not emotionally scar your toddler, or spending 2 hours at a movie will not damage your teenager for life.

If cruising with DCL is really so terrible for your families than why do you even consider it?? I truly do not understand?

 

[lillygator]

As another poster said you can't please everyone......in another thread someone really bashed people with strollers.....we are bringing ours and I could care less what people think. That same person also bashed people bringing *young* children i.e. toddlers, stating that it is pointless to bring young children who would have no memories of the trip (obviously they never went to WDW either).....what about YOUR family memories?
I am sure the ship will be full of well mannered, well behaved children of all ages so that we all can enjoy a perfect vacation! NOT! Most of the time I think the young babies are much better behaved than the older children.
Our DD will be 18 months at cruising time...I would never think of waiting to go....what if something happened to one of us and we never got to take a magical Disney cruise? I can understand waiting to do certain things, such as taking her whitewater rafting or things that are physically limiting...but for a child who started going to Gator games at 2 months old, she is really up for anything.
We aren't planning on using Flounders, but would love it if the toddlers had their own small pool. DD loves to swim and I am sure would not understand that she can't go into the big pool - especially since we will be coming from the resort where she can swim freely.
I don't really think Disney would change too much - they seem to be doing quite well without catering to other age groups. It couldn't hurt to write and vioce your concerns though.