Why are toddlers second-class citizens on DCL??

[HookedonMagic]

I don't think the issue is just with DCL...We just returned from a Royal Caribbean cruise on Mariner of the Seas. On that ship, we had to pay full fare for our toddler and didn't even have the option of Flounders (or any nursery or dedicated play space.) There are NO spaces on board for him...he didn't even have characters to enjoy. Plus, there are many more cranky old people on Royal Caribbean who glared at him before he even let out a peep. We never brought him to dinner (not once!) and yet had to endure listening to our table mates complain about the fact we brought him on board at all.

Just for the record, we are a family of four. Our son is 16 months, but our daughter is 14 years...we took our spring break aboard Mariner primarily for her. We knew that our son's options were limited before we sailed...we just didn't know how limited until after we sailed. We still had a great trip...we just won't be cruising any line other than DCL for several years to come! All four of us agree DCL is a better value and just a better vacation overall!

 

[MiaSRN62]

What activities do you want for your 18 year old ? What do you thinhk the other cruiselines offer kids this age?

Other cruise lines have teen clubs that allow 18 year olds. Dances or an 18-20 year old cruise excursion (similar to the teen junkanoo cruise) would be nice ? Even one dance or cruise offered the entire length of the cruise for this age group would be nice ? Not asking for a ton here---just some inclusion that doesn't involve hanging out in a nightclub with adults where alcohol is served etc for a high schooler. My main concern is with 18 year olds that are still in HS. How can they relate to adult activities. That's really my point----anything else to include 18-20 year olds would just be an added bonus but I wouldn't expect it necessarily.

but still had a great time, just try to have fun with your kids another way. Enjoy the ports of call, enjoy exploring the ship, try playing some basketball. There are endless amounts of things to do, but you might actually have to spend some time with the kids.

Oh, believe me....we do. I don't feel I should have to defend myself against statements like this. We don't look for ways to "dump" our kids, but rather ways to include them in the fun on the ship that is age-appropriate to them. I am the parent of an 11, 12 and 17 year old. It's not easy to please all age groups. My teen son actually prefers to distance himself from us on the cruise and hang in the teen club with his peers. This is typical normal behavior for someone his age.

or spending 2 hours at a movie will not damage your teenager for life.

This is patronizing to say the least. YES....we spend family time on the cruise. But 7 days is a long time for a 17 year old boy to hang out with his mom and dad. He understandably wants the companionship of kids his age.

If cruising with DCL is really so terrible for your families than why do you even consider it?? I truly do not understand?

Not sure where you are coming from I really don't think you "understand"any of the points made here. Had you read my posts clearly, I repeatedly said we "all love Disney". Never did I say anything was horrible (please go back and read all my posts). Just giving some suggestions as to what could be done with the DCL to include the entire family in programs/activities. No biggie....just a suggestion.

they seem to be doing quite well without catering to other age groups.

This was already agreed upon....of course they are. Improvement can't hurt though ! They say they cater to families....well my family has an 11, 12 AND a 17 year old (will turn 18 later this year).

 

[MiaSRN62]

but our daughter is 14 years...we took our spring break aboard Mariner primarily for her. We knew that our son's options were limited before we sailed...we just didn't know how limited until after we sailed. We still had a great trip...we just won't be cruising any line other than DCL

Yes, I'll agree, Common Grounds is terrific for teens (13-17) and it's the only reason we're rebooking a cruise for this year. My teen son loved it and felt it was the highlight of the cruise. I am aware that there are other cruise lines---I believe a friend of mine mentioned Carnival---that includes 18 year olds in the teen clubs. Just wish Disney would do this---we'd get one more cruise next year out of them if they did !

 

[MiaSRN62]

Maybe children need to learn that they will not always get everything they want!?! But why would they when they are taught to expect it from their parents??

Markmyboy ~
Just had to add....this is totally ridiculous. My kids are raised just fine thank you very much. They fully enjoy their vacations with us as a family. You have no right to insinuate anything when all we're discussing here is what improvements could be made to make the DCL a more enjoyable experience for ALL families. Thought this was an open forum to discuss pros and cons and offer experiences and suggestions----not fodder for people to throw accusations about poor child-rearing around ! Not sure who you think you are for you to assume you know me or anyone else on these boards that well ?

 

[jodifla]

I'm no cruising newcomer. I've been on about 8 cruises, all on lines other than DCL, so I have some idea about what else is out there.

And I agree that most cruise lines, other than Carnival, which seems to be aggressively going after the kids market, building new ships with floors of kids clubs, don't offer nearly as much as Disney. (Norwegian offers some limited programs for 2 year olds)

My point is that they could beef up the toddler portion of the program to bring it in line with the rest of their fine product. It seems a glaring hole to me in the overall scheme of things, considering how much everyone raves about DCL. I came to the conclusion that DCL could be improved in this area after reading about six months worth of back posts using the search function, and reading the many comments of parents who have toddlers.

A side note: Lillygator, haven't taken DS yet to a Gator game, but have wanted to! (He stays with DH while I go to the game!) Very cool! I'm quite impressed!

 

[aprilgail2]

Originally posted by MiaSRN62
Yes, I'll agree, Common Grounds is terrific for teens (13-17) and it's the only reason we're rebooking a cruise for this year. My teen son loved it and felt it was the highlight of the cruise. I am aware that there are other cruise lines---I believe a friend of mine mentioned Carnival---that includes 18 year olds in the teen clubs. Just wish Disney would do this---we'd get one more cruise next year out of them if they did !

As someone who is bringing a 14 year old on board I would not be comfortable having her at 13 or 14 in a club with an 18 year old. Most 18 year olds are out of high school and into college (with the exception of those who have birthday right after the cut off to start school and those left/held back) and I don't like the idea of a 13 year old who is 8th or 9th grade hanging out at the same club as a college aged guy/girl. By 18 I was hanging out in bars and comedy clubs with friends and wouldn't have wanted to hang in the same place as 13 year olds.

 

[markmyboy]

OK guys, sorry. I have been spending WAY too much time on the cruise critic board trying to prepare for my Royal Carribean cruise. I really didn't mean to insult anyone, I am sorry.

But seriously, total inclusion of all guests is of course impossible & so far I think DCL meets the best balance. Both age groups in question are quite difficult for ALL cruise lines, as they both come with many issues & problems.

It is also important for adults, as well as children to make the most of what is there, I didn't mean to say you guys don't know how to do that. Some of the other cruise lines have MAJOR problems with those 18-20 dance parties,, it only takes one or two "faster" kids in that age group to REALLY ruin things for all of them. My teenaged sisters got burned by a group of girls on their first cruise & have NEVER returned to ANY teen club since!?! Now they tend to explore the ships & hang out by pools & just do their own things.


Sorry it all came out so harsh, had my thick skin on, forgettting about the cooler & mellower DISers.

 

[ClarabelleCow]

Kids adapt to their surroundings, why the need to have things for them to do. I have cruised, and vacationed with my kids since they could. My kids have gone on a caribbean vacation every year since they were born. No kids club, no amusement parks, no babysitting, we don't bring the play station or super nintendo. Maybe some cards, coloring books and crayons and maybe a gameboy. Guess what they love it, playing in the sand, swimming in the pool. we didn't go out to fancy dinners, and when we did, non peak time. They are just as happy with a bucket and shovel as they are at the Kingdom! We have taken our older daughter on Carnival and NCL, the kids program were there, but really at the time, didn't pertain to her age group. But we didn't put here there alot because of it. We spent time together. I think one of the misconceptions with cruises is that it should cater to all, well if your child doesn't fit the age catagories, then maybe the parents should rethink the trip. I think the parents get more uptight over this than the kids. They are just happy spending time with their family. Oh - and I know I read a thing about strollers on ships, for little ones, they are great, but when the child is older and the stroller becomes more of a grocery cart filled with every item you own, and takes up tons of space, clogs up the walkways or waiting areas in lines to eat. I do have a problem with them then. I went flying on a NCL cruise when the seas were rough and got rearended by a heavily packed stroller!

 

[MiaSRN62]

Most 18 year olds are out of high school and into college (with the exception of those who have birthday right after the cut off to start school and those left/held back) and I don't like the idea of a 13 year old who is 8th or 9th grade hanging out at the same club as a college aged guy/girl. By 18 I was hanging out in bars and comedy clubs with friends and wouldn't have wanted to hang in the same place as 13 year olds.

Well, my son was not left/held back !?? He turns 18 in December of his senior year & will graduate at the appropriate age of 18. He's in HS for the majority of his 18th year---as are most of his friends. Most of his friends are turning 18 in the August-Dec time period of entering the senior year. These 18 year olds are used to hanging with at least 15-18 year olds in school. I don't honestly think an 18 year old in college would even want to hang in the teen club. I don't think this would interest them at all.....but an 18 year old in HS is a different ball of wax in my opinion. I can assure you my son will not be hanging out in clubs/bars this Dec when he turns 18. He'll be in HS partaking of age-appropriate after school activities such as clubs, Track and Field, and LaCrosse. When the teens come together in Common Grounds, the 13 and 14 year olds tend to migrate together and the 15-17 year olds tend to form their own little group. So there's no ill-mixing going on here. My son has no desire to hang in the adult oriented comedy clubs and bars drinking while he's in HS thank goodness.

 

[MiaSRN62]

OK guys, sorry. I have been spending WAY too much time on the cruise critic board

Apology accepted......it's alright.
I honestly have stated in my previous posts that we really do enjoy our Disney cruises. It's just nice for kids to be able to hang with their own age group instead of high schoolers being lumped in with 30 year olds in a nightclub.....that's all I'm trying to say. I understand Disney can't please everyone and it's why I repeatedly stated we'll most likely being going with another cruise line after our Nov cruise this year. I've accepted it---just wish I didn't have to is all.

 

[crisi]

Maria,

If they did let eighteen year olds in the teen club, some parent of a thirteen year old girl would be complaining that EIGHTEEN year old boys were hitting on her. There is a huge difference between thirteen and eighteen and my take on a "family" vacation destination is that they should keep legal adults (which eighteen year olds are) out of the kids clubs. (Besides, it probably lowers Disney's liability).

I suppose my perspective is a little different. When I was eighteen, you could legally drink in Wisconsin. So a lot of my high school friends who were eighteen (I was younger) would drive to Wisconsin on the weekends and hang in bars. It was the thing to do (although I was always too young to do it in high school).

 

[NYGiantsRule!]

Children under 3 pay only a small amount (I believe it covers port fees and alittle more). Would parents of toddlers be willing to pay the child rate of $399 or more so that they could have programs for that age group?

 

[MiaSRN62]

I suppose my perspective is a little different. When I was eighteen, you could legally drink in Wisconsin. So a lot of my high school friends who were eighteen (I was younger) would drive to Wisconsin on the weekends and hang in bars

No drinking under age 21 allowed in PA so my high schooler won't be hanging in any bars/clubs (Disney or otherwise). When I was 18 and entering college, the most I could do was go to frat parties on campus and such. Strict ID/carding in PA for bars and clubs. Must be 21. This is why I said a nice alternative on the DCL would be some sort of gatherings for 18-20 year olds. Doesn't have to be anything daily or a club....just a few dances or whatever scattered over the length of the cruise. I don't see what the big inconvenience would be ?
My daughter will be 13 in June and I have no problem with her being in a club with other teens. Heck....in high school there are 14 year olds walking the same school hallways and eating in the same lunchroom as 18 year olds ? I guess I have a different perpective too ? High school is just that---even though they may be legal "adults", I hardly feel anyone still in school is ready to be hanging out in nightclubs with 30 year olds. The social structure is so different. There needs to be a happy medium.

 

[lillygator]

If I am going to pay $399 for my daughter when she is three I would definitely pay it when she is 2 if there were more for her to do......

 

[crisi]

I had read someplace that Studio Sea was basically taken over by the "older teen, young adult" crowd past ten. That it is billed as an "all ages family dance club" but you really don't want to be there as a 40 year old with a 7 year old past nine. Is that not true? (We were never up that late to find out).

(Yeah, the drinking age in Wisconsin is 21 now to, its a different time than when I was growing up. Although I think the "type" that used to drive to Wisconsin to drink is now just doing it with the liquor someone's older brother bought in the basement of whose ever parents are out of town, oblivious or indulgent. And I'm sure there is still a business in fake IDs.)

 

[MiaSRN62]

I had read someplace that Studio Sea was basically taken over by the "older teen, young adult" crowd past ten

Thanks....this is interesting. Will have to check this out in November.

Although I think the "type" that used to drive to Wisconsin to drink is now just doing it with the liquor someone's older brother bought in the basement of whose ever parents are out of town, oblivious or indulgent. And I'm sure there is still a business in fake IDs.)

Well anything is possible......but I think the bars/clubs have really tightened up on what you and I used to get away with when we were 18. And just like you said about getting the liquor or fake ID's......any age can do that. Let's not blame only the 18 year olds who are still in senior year of HS for this. I've heard of much younger teens getting caught in school with drugs etc. My 12 year old dd said a boy was taken out of class (8th grade) this year by school security for having drugs in his locker. Have no idea where a child this age got them (can only guess). I am always talking to my kids about drugs and alcohol and they have a very good DARE program in the school system.

but you really don't want to be there as a 40 year old with a 7 year old past nine. Is that not true?

I don't know.....my kids always stay up late when we're on vacation even when they were age 7. But I don't know about Studio Sea as a place to be with them at 10 pm if older teens were in there. I am aware of a couple very late Common Grounds dances where my ds (then 15) would come back to the cabin at 2 am. The teen counselors were there the whole night with the teens---I checked. So I'm not sure if Common Grounds reserves Studio Sea on certain nights for these dances or not but I do know there were supervised late-night dances. They were listed in the Navigator I believe.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Yep....I went to this site : http://www.castawayclub.com/ and checked the teen Navigators.
I know you used the phrase "taken over" by older teens, but there are definitely scheduled/organized/chaperoned Common Ground dances there during late night hours. So I'm guessing this is what you read about Studio Sea.

 

[crisi]

Oh, I'm not blaming anyone's 18 year old. I was actually thinking more about my sister and her fake id in college (at 18, 19 and 20). And I'm well aware that there are 12 year olds who have drinking parties. I was thinking more along the lines of "the more things change, the more they stay the same." There are huge variety of 18 year olds out there. From the ones that will sneak liquor on board, to the ones that will be bored on a Disney cruise, to the ones that are happy by the pool all day with a book, or spend their days at the basketball court, then will enjoy dinner and the show and then go to bed or do a little dancing at Studio Sea,

On the seven day, Common Grounds is now "The Stack" and the parties are held there (according to the Navigators). Maybe you could start a thread and ask what Studio Sea is like later at night. It might be a good compromise. Looks like its usually "Family Dance" from 10:00pm until 11 somthing - and its staffed with the entertainment staff. After that, pretty much the only part of the ship that has activities is Beat Street, unless there is a deck party scheduled.

 

[MiaSRN62]

There are huge variety of 18 year olds out there. From the ones that will sneak liquor on board, to the ones that will be bored on a Disney cruise, to the ones that are happy by the pool all day with a book, or spend their days at the basketball court, then will enjoy dinner and the show and then go to bed or do a little dancing at Studio Sea,

Ok....I got ya now. I agree with what you say above, but I'll add, you could say the same for 14 or 15 year olds etc. The above things you mentioned are typical fare for a teen of almost any age from what I see.

On the seven day, Common Grounds is now "The Stack" and the parties are held there (according to the Navigators). Maybe you could start a thread and ask what Studio Sea is like later at night. It might be a good compromise.

You're right....looks like the dances on the Magic will be at the Stack. It's only onboard the Wonder that they use Studio Sea for the after hour dances---that was the Navigator I checked because we last cruised on the 4 day Wonder.
I'll def look into the entertainment at Studio Sea for older teens, but for this year my son will be ok as he won't turn 18 until after our cruise. I was aware of the Stack's new location also. I heard there's more room there---haven't seen it yet. When I read the teen navigators, I know this is exactly what my son wants out of a cruise. He's still in HS, still goofs around, plays wall ball, plays video games etc......he would not enjoy hanging out with 30 year olds in a nightclub and I'm glad DCL offers these programs to their teen cruisers (at least through age 17 )

 

[mmouse37]

My teens could not wait to try the adult clubs onboard when they turned 18. They had a ball dancing and hanging out and participating in the theme nights onboard. Even danced with mom and dad!!! They did not have to drink onboard to have a good time. It was just a much more adult feel in Rocking Bar D....this was their 9th DCL cruise and they practically grew up inside all the kid clubs and were so happy to be an ADULT onboard. They loved Palo and being able to use the adult pool.

Just be aware.....all the ports except CC and Port Canaveral have an age 18 drinking law. My teens drank on the islands...it didn't bother me.....it was legal and they were responsible.


MJ