Why are toddlers second-class citizens on DCL??

[jodifla]

It seems to me that doing something for the 18-20 crowd would be fairly simple for Disney to do -- kids that age just need meeting space, coffee and computers -- a space to hang.

Seems like that wouldn't be too hard to accommodate, even if they just used existing space and mentioned a get-together in the navigator. For that age, what you really need to do is introduce them, so that if there's only 25 or so on the ship, they can meet each other.

As far as toddlers go, for me, if my son had access to a pool and some group sitting at night and a place to play some during the day (like they apparently can at Oceaneer's Club, if parent is there), that would about be enough. It's the lack of a true pool that makes it really tough, even though as I mentioned in my OP, that's not Disney's call, it's the law, and Disney has tried to work around it.

One thing they might do on any future cruise liners they build is to have one of those fountain water play areas like they do at some many parks. That could make it easier to keep toddlers entertained on sea days.

it was interesting to read a previous poster's note on sending her younger child in pullups to Oceaneer's Club with the older ones. I wondered about that kind of thing. I mean, I know a lot of kids can't do "everything" on that front (wiping, pulling up their clothes, washing their hands) until they're almost 5 -- in fact, most books tell you to count on that.!

 

[ClarabelleCow]

As far as toddlers go, for me, if my son had access to a pool and some group sitting at night and a place to play some during the day (like they apparently can at Oceaneer's Club, if parent is there), that would about be enough

Having not yet been on a Disney cruise, doesn't the ship have all this, isn't the Mickey ear a splash pool, and does't flounders have group sitting and play areas. I bet yes maybe flounders is more babyish (again, I have never been) but I myself am amazed as to what my 4 year old does with the so called "baby toys", he just plays with them differently than he did when he was smaller.

 

[jodifla]

ClarabelleCow, you're right, the ship does have the sitting (although my son would probably be happier with the older toys, he toy stills plays with all-age toys) and you can take him into Oceaneer's Club. So that's pretty doable.

But from pictures i've seen of the pool situation, the ears are right next to the big pool (actually, kind of inside), where all the kids are splashing and playing. I see a real challenge keeping him in the ear, which looks quite small in the photo and has a couple of streams of water in it.

 

[CarolAnnC]

On three of our cruises, I visited Common Grounds during their registration period on embarkation day and successfully registered my older DD who was 18 and 19 years old during those cruises. They spoke to us briefly, and readily gave permission for her to join their activities. I would suggest giving this a try if you have an 18 or 19 year old interested in participating. We have known many others of that same age that were also allowed in, upon parental request.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Thanks Carol. This is good to know. I wasn't aware they would make any age exceptions. That sort of blows the legal guideline concerns out of the water then ?

 

[hydster]

disservice - a harmful action. Harmful to whom? I think disservice is a pretty strong word. And great disservice is certainly too strong.

IT IS HARMFUL AND A DISSERVICE to offer NOTHING for that age group except drinking and SOME (notice I said SOME) not so 18 year old high school appropriate shows! Why should an 18 year old be exposed to adult situations as his ONLY form of entertainment at night? Drinking IS an adult situation and there is a reason that they don't let children into that area at night because it is ADULT humor, language and situations! Maybe to YOU those things are fine for an 18 year old high school student but if it were ME my children wouldn't be attending that stuff either because although his age shows 18 on his driver's license I highly doubt he is much more advanced than a 17 year old that they DO allow in a club! It's a fine line between what a High School student is ready for and what an 18 year old College student is ready for whether you want to admit it or not! It's not like Disney would have to babysit them..sheesh just give them some kind of activity that is appropriate for 18 that doesn't involve adult situations!

Your opinion is your opinion and that's fine...but I am also entitled to my opinion and my opinion is that they are doing a disservice to that age set!

The Disney faithful will never let anyone say a bad sentence about Disney and that appears to be the case here as well. I for one will stick to more "disney friendly" topics from now on. I will be unsubscribing to this thread as it is like beating a dead horse to death.

Heidi

 

[CAMICKEY]

Hydster - Breath real deep. Let it out. Breath real deep, let it out. Now where is that bottle of Wine..... Only 25 days... - Mike

 

[MiaSRN62]

It's not like Disney would have to babysit them..sheesh just give them some kind of activity that is appropriate for 18 that doesn't involve adult situations!

Exactly Heidi ! Thanks again for the support on this issue.

 

[Grumbo]

like beating a dead horse to death.

After 88 posts I think this thread IS ready for the glue factory Heidi

Cheers,
Grumbo

 

[Tiiiigergirl]

I agree that for the tot set Disney appears lacking for a family product. I agree with the posters who point out that for fiscal reasons if nothing else if probably just isn't worth it.

As far as for the 18 - 20's I looked up the most recent Western Nav and saw that on the first night at 10:15 in Rockn' Bar D there is a meet and mingle for 18 to 25. That might be another option. You might want to suggest that they add more of these meetings.

 

[hilltopfamily]

Agree that Disney targets families and kids, so you'd think they'd have something for the toddler set. (and for the older set as well)

Wanted to clear up some misinformation I saw here about Carnival. Just got back from our CCL cruise, having been on a DCL cruise just 7-8 months prior, so both experiences are recent, and without outdated information (which seems to abound when discussing Carnival particularly).

Carnival DOES change diapers, DOES give out beepers for families of younger kids (we got one for our DD 6.9 yrs old). They had 2 pools plus a kids pool, a water slide (though it has height restrictions as I believe all do). CCL does offer a great kids club (my 3 kids thought it was better than DCL). And they DO NOT charge for kids activities or time in kids clubs unless you wish for your kids go to their late night offerings, which is after the hours of 10:00PM. One major difference is that with the exception of formal night or when in port, they ask you to pick up your children for lunch & dinner and feed them yourself. This was not a problem, since we always wanted (on both cruises) our kids with us for meals. I'm not trying to "push" CCL here, just stepping up to relate truths from my recent experience and state that while I understand peoples' desire to experience Disney, there are other options that may offer what you're looking for and could be considered.

One other note: I'm a therapist working with kids in public and parochial schools. We OFTEN assist in toileting needs for youngsters and/or children of all ages with disabilities. We simply have 2 staff members present (for liability issues). I find the arguement unacceptable that this would be too expensive from a staffing viewpoint for DCL, given the premium they receive for their cruises. JMHO.

 

[jodifla]

Wow, Penny. Great information, thank you!

We're leaning toward a 3-day Wonder cruise before he's three years old just to get our feet wet with cruising with him, so to speak. Since we're close to Port Canaveral and don't have to pay for him, it's the least expensive Disney cruise we'll ever get.

Then we'll switch over to Carnival for a few years until the whole potty training thing is dealt with.

Of course, maybe by then we'll be hooked on Carnival cruises and won't return to DCL -- I think that's a risk Disney takes by not hooking people with toddlers early.

 

[crisi]

Originally posted by hydster
IT IS HARMFUL AND A DISSERVICE to offer NOTHING for that age group except drinking and SOME (notice I said SOME) not so 18 year old high school appropriate shows! Why should an 18 year old be exposed to adult situations as his ONLY form of entertainment at night? Drinking IS an adult situation and there is a reason that they don't let children into that area at night because it is ADULT humor, language and situations! Heidi

I still think disservice is a very strong word for "choose not to provide programming for that space." If you believe it is actually "harmful" to your child that they do not do so, by all means, do NOT take a Disney cruise with kids that age, that would certainly be a disservice to your child. No one is forcing you to take an eighteen year old on the ship. Nor is anyone forcing you to take your eighteen year old back to Beat Street.

And they DO have Studio Sea. Which until 11:30 or so provides family entertainment. After that, DCL is (with the exception of a few deck parties and the like), sorely lacking in options for ANYONE who doesn't want to hang in a loud smokey bar (like me) or be exposed to adult humor. And that doesn't matter if you are 18 or 48.

As to being exposed to drinking, the have a bar next to the Mickey pool! I think its safe to say that even my four year old was exposed to drinking (and there were plenty of people slightly sloshed at the sail away party). From everything I've heard, DCL does a good job of carding and your 18 year old won't be drinking.

 

[CM_Mom]

Talked to DD the Club CM this morning and mentioned this thread. She said that children who aren't potty trained are allowed in the Club IF a parent wants to stay with them. They have children who come as visitors to participate in the activites and play on the equipment with a parent to supervise them. Just thought ya'll would like to know that the Club isn't totally closed to the younger ones.

To leave your child, the 3 YO, potty trained rules apply because of staffing ratios and training. The regular staff in Flounders have special Dept of Health training in dealing with "stuff" and ratios or 1-6 for the older ones. Also, if the Counselors in the Club have to change a dirty Potty Accident, (which they will do if the parents can't be found), they are required to have a second counselor present for liability reasons so that pulls TWO counselors off the floor and upsets the staffing ratios for the rest of the children.

About the 18 YOs. DD confirmed what CarolAnnK said. Talk to the counselors. You can probably get permission for him to participate in the activities in the Stack or Common Grounds.

Hope this helps,
Reine

 

[LindaBabe]

She was able to do everything her mother did except have alcohol.

 

[MiaSRN62]

Thanks for all the replies in regards to the 18+ year olds. I was never concerned about my 18+ year old drinking, being carded or being exposed to drinking (he has before) etc. The point was, he would not be interested in tagging along with my dh and myself. He would not be interested in the adult clubs. I know him well enough to know he could care less about this unless there was someone his own age to partake in socializing/activites. I was concerned about activity options for him that would be suited to his maturity/age level.
To those who suggested checking with the CM's to see if they would allow teens in HS over the age of 17 to join in with activities in the Stack or Common Grounds, I do believe this is the avenue I will pursue. Thanks for sharing your experiences and suggestions.

 

[pixie71]

I am a single parent and my son who was 1 1/2 at the time took a 3 night RCL cruise and it was an adventure - let me tell you. He could not use ANY of the child care facilities and we were together all the time (but I went with this understanding). I wished they would have had a facility for the kids his age just so that he could burn off all of that energy just running/jumping being a kid. This was my family reunion and we were traveling with family members who L-O-V-E to party so DCL was not an option for them. Would I travel again with him at that age without the facilities - probably not because this was my vacation too.

We as parents need to be able to enjoy vacations just as much as the kids do. And it's not a crime to want to have 2 or 3 hours "me" time to just have fun or do nothing and these cruise lines should be more accommodating to the younger toddler set so that's parents can get away (you need it most when your kids are toddlers!!!!!).

I am planning another cruise for this year and I am seriouly leaning toward CCL just because my son is 2 1/2 now and he may not be totally potyy-trained and I plan to take FULL advantage of the activities on the ship and enjoy some time alone. My son is in a class with 3 1/2 years old and there is no way he is going to Flounders and there's no way I'm spending my entire cruise chasing him around or having him glued to my hip either

 

[zalansky]

Pixie 71...
We just went on RCCL's Mariner this past February with our then 14 month old. We also went on the Wonder in September when he was 9 months old. Having Flounders was a dream come true, for both our son and us. Even though he was only 9 months he seemed to enjoy himself. We were on a family reunion cruise on RCCL also, and my fanily would not consider DCL, I would not even dare to suggest it, they are a party crowd also. I love my son with all my heart, of course, but it was VERY difficult on a one week cruise on all of us....especially since he still takes 2 naps a day. Needless to say I swore I would never do it again. We were not really able to enjoy ourselves at all....and what really peeved me was we had to pau FULL FARE for our son to sail in RCCL. That was an addl $500 plus taxes...for a baby who could not and did not participate in anything and only ate a few boxes of Cheerios. Won't be doing that again, ever.
For those of you who have cruised Carnival, is there a ship that would be less of a party atmosphere but still offer those things for the ones who do like to party? My sisters smoke, are into the nightlife and gambling...but I need something to entertain my DS also.....we are looking for later this year. I have cruised CCL in the past, but I was younger and carefree, and single....so that is what my opinion of CCL still is! It didn't appeal to me now....but reading these posts has me thinking....
any suggestions...???

 

[pixie71]

zalansky,

I totally agree with you I needed another vacation from that cruise I too paid fill fare (I however waited until the last minute and paid $199 each). I was on the Sovereign of the Seas and it was not the most modern of ships however. And reading these posts has me second guessing DCL. I may consider CCL for the simple fact that my son can use the facilities even if he is not fully potty-trained and I want to let loose and get my "party on".

Anybody have reports on CCL and their children's facilities especially interested in the facilities for toddlers????