When Is It Enough? (Retirement Funds)

[DMRick]

The thing is, sorry, but he has a "kinder, gentler" way of putting it. And you're right, I don't think most people need to have 70-80% of their income after they retire. I wonder if the biggest difference is you don't have any of those expensive kids living with you. As I've said before, once they got out on their own, we felt like we had gotten a hugh raise, and our discretionary income blossomed. With kids in private school, college and those darn weddings, not to mention what their sneakers cost (more than a night in Disney) we got a good idea of what it was like living on a much lower percent of your income.
Hey, great for those who are able to save the large amount you do..but some would rather spend a lot of that money now, after seeing friends and relatives not able to use the money later because of illness or death. And it doesn't make them bad, or stupid, or foolish..or even just plain wrong.

In fact I believe DisneySteve mentioned he's aiming for 3 million, and since he's likely to stick to the "4%" rule, we can determine that he's looking to pull about 120K per year when he retires. I would even venture to say that like us, DisneySteve would say that the 3 million would never in a million years make him feel wealthy....not in least. Because that's going to be his income for many, many years in the style to which he has become accustomed to living.

 

[dvcgirl]

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I'm sorry that you feel that way about both sets of parents.. That's really sad - but again, not all families are the same.. I'm very, very lucky to have the family that I have that would be prefer that I be there, rather than not..

Funny - I was going to ask what age group you're in because I figured that might have a bigger impact on your agressiveness towards saving, but I didn't know if you would want to reveal that here.. Now I understand a little more if you're talking about 25 years from now.. By then I'm fairly certain I'll be dead, so I guess I have that covered..

As for your parents spending $6000 a year on supplemental health insurance, where the heck do they live? My sister doesn't pay anything near that much nor did my mother before she went into assisted living.. Neither have (or had) major out-of-pocket expenditures..

Again - you can't generalize.. Every area and every person is different.. I just hate to see people being scared away from these threads because they don't have millions saved for retirement and they're being frightened into thinking they are going to be doomed to live out the remainder of their days sleeping on a piece of cardboard on the sidewalk.. If that makes me a bad person, so be it - but if you're going to have these conversations it would be much more helpful if you had a broader base of knowledge than what you read.. Get out there and talk to people in all walks of life and you may be very surprised by what you learn.. Listen to what DMRick has said about people from different walks of life.. Read what I've said about my own situation - but read it without the skepticism..

Retirement is not - and will never be - a "one size fits all" situation.. Maybe you could at least acknowledge that..

C.Ann, you really are too funny. You're sorry because I don't want my in-laws to live with me? Yeah, I'm sure that I'm the "odd person out" on that one....lol! I have a wonderful relationship with my in-laws, but I also have a life (as do they), and honestly, quality time in shorter spurts like 2 week intervals is preferable to all of us than living together out of necessity. Again, if they ever needed us....we'd be there for them in heartbeat. But for now, thankfully, they have very full lives and wouldn't desire to live with us.

My parents live in NJ.

I'm not generalizing. I mentioned that my parents were shopping for good supplemental healthcare insurance to make up the gap between Medicare and out of pocket expenses. That's fairly specific.

And yes, I always read your posts when I come across them. I think it's wonderful that you can stretch a dollar as far as you do....that's awesome. I don't however think that yours is the typical retirement experience. I know that you are due for a nice "raise" from SS in a few years, but currently you are living a hair above the poverty level. The fact that you are so deliriously happy is a testament to your character. But not many retirees can get by on 12K and still have something left over for fun.

I do know a few retired people though...namely our parents, and your experience is very different from theirs. Actually, I think DMRick's experience is very different from yours. But you are right, to each their own...we all need to make our own way and get by the best we can.

 

[dvcgirl]

The thing is, sorry, but he has a "kinder, gentler" way of putting it. And you're right, I don't think most people need to have 70-80% of their income after they retire. I wonder if the biggest difference is you don't have any of those expensive kids living with you. As I've said before, once they got out on their own, we felt like we had gotten a hugh raise, and our discretionary income blossomed. With kids in private school, college and those darn weddings, not to mention what their sneakers cost (more than a night in Disney) we got a good idea of what it was like living on a much lower percent of your income.
Hey, great for those who are able to save the large amount you do..but some would rather spend a lot of that money now, after seeing friends and relatives not able to use the money later because of illness or death. And it doesn't make them bad, or stupid, or foolish..or even just plain wrong.

Ah yes, I am a bit more "blunt" than DisneySteve, however, remember that these are typewritten words....you know me not. I have had people tell me that I'm nothing like what I "sound" like in e-mail. You might actually like me if you met me in person .

And yes, it's funny, personal experiences do matter. I have seen people use the "life's too short" excuse to the point where they end up in bankruptcy. We have lost family members at a young age....it is terribly, terribly sad. Having gone through those experiences didn't make me want to save less, it did make me think about more frequent check-ups, a better diet and more exercise....stuff like that.

 

[C.Ann]

C.Ann, you really are too funny. You're sorry because I don't want my in-laws to live with me? Yeah, I'm sure that I'm the "odd person out" on that one....lol! I have a wonderful relationship with my in-laws, but I also have a life (as do they), and honestly, quality time in shorter spurts like 2 week intervals is preferable to all of us than living together out of necessity..

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How about this? I'll agree to being "funny" if you'll agree to "not getting the point"... LOL Some families just get along better than others and visits (yes - even extended ones) are something to be looked forward to - not dreaded.. LOL I don't spend two months out of the year at my DD's - or the remainder of the time with my brother and sister in Florida out of "necessity".. I do it because that's what they want.. I would LOVE to live here in the mountains year-round, but my family won't hear of it.. I guess I'm just luckier than most..

 

[mickeyfan2]

First of all why do you assume every comment is about you. I separated the two parts by -------------- above refered to your comment and below were my thoughts. I am entitle to my thoughts. I am begining to think that I am not really allowed my thoughts on the BB.

Heh, you don't even know what we make....did you ever think that what we make is just large to us? I won't share that number, nor will I share our portfolio total. I have shared that we are in the top 5% of earners as per the census, which puts us over 150K. I wasn't the first person here to share that nugget of information....many have.

No and I do not want to know. Well you don't say we make more than we ever thought we would rather then we make a large income. One is related to your own thougths and the other is ment to make an image in the mind of the reader. I just don't see why you think you need to tell me your income is > $150K. But I guess you and others see a need to tell us that. Oh well what ever floats your boat.

The 4% rule is tied to inflation. Believe it or not, I didn't make that one up. If you're making 6%, and inflation is at 4% (slightly over the 3.5% history of inflation), and you draw 6%, you're in big trouble. You may outlive your money. If you plan on drawing 6%, you're going to need a return of 10% year over year, and your portfolio will have to invested very aggressively for that....not worth the risk.

Again I never said that you invented that. I know that is one rule some advocate, but if you actually read and understood my point you would have seen my discussion of the home still there to sell or reverse mortgage. So if your portfolio is at $0 and you own your house you have not out lived your money, you just have some of it still in real estate and need to reallocate it.

I have no idea what you are talking about with respect to making assumptions about your life Mickeyfan....seriously, I'm lost there.

Well reread what others have said, and again I was not directing this at your specifically, just the general tone used and misquoting of my comments. Please learn to reread my rambling a second time before commenting. If you are still confused just ignore me.

And I like to read what C.Ann, DMRick and Disneysteve have to say too. Always a good read....

I see it more as you like when some pat your back and like to argue points with others. I prefer to be a free thinker and not need a pat on the back but to listen to all relavent comments and then see if my own opinion has been altered.


Again, and I am not talking to you but a general you, what about my thought of "Rather than us only discussing the look how much/little they have saved, we could discuss the pros/cons/differences between hedge funds, trading in commodities, mutual funds, index funds, investment allocations, domestic vs. internation funds, small/mid/large cap value or small/mid/large cap value just to name a few." Why not this too?

 

[C.Ann]

. I know that you are due for a nice "raise" from SS in a few years, but currently you are living a hair above the poverty level. The fact that you are so deliriously happy is a testament to your character..

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Why thank you! It is rather nice to not lie in bed at night worrying about the millions that I don't have.. My parents did a great job of raising us to appreciate life for what it is - an exciting, adventurous journey.. I'm just so sad that my Dad never lived to enjoy his retirement nor did my DH.. It's becoming so common these days.. Hopefully people can find a middle ground where they can enjoy themselves now and not feel cheated when they're robbed of their retirement later in life by some horrible disease..

 

[mickeyfan2]

Ah yes, I am a bit more "blunt" than DisneySteve, however, remember that these are typewritten words....you know me not. I have had people tell me that I'm nothing like what I "sound" like in e-mail. You might actually like me if you met me in person .

I for one would like to actually like you on these boards. Maybe our comments are to try and show you a gentler way to make your point and still preach the same message. Also an apology, when you unintentionally hurt somebodies feelings, goes a long way to healing. The only person we know is the one that you present to us via your written word, and that is the only one you know of us.

 

[mickeyfan2]

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Why thank you! It is rather nice to not lie in bed at night worrying about the millions that I don't have.. My parents did a great job of raising us to appreciate life for what it is - an exciting, adventurous journey.. I'm just so sad that my Dad never lived to enjoy his retirement nor did my DH.. It's becoming so common these days.. Hopefully people can find a middle ground where they can enjoy themselves now and not feel cheated when they're robbed of their retirement later in life by some horrible disease..

It does make me sad that you and your DH did not get many more years together. As you and I have discussed, I almost lost my DH a little under 5 years ago to a complication to a common injury. That made me open my eyes to so many things. I will plan for our retirement, I hope that the two of us can grow old together and I also make the most of our time together now. All of life is a give and take, I just learned to give a little more now.

 

[C.Ann]

It does make me sad that you and your DH did not get many more years together. As you and I have discussed, I almost lost my DH a little under 5 years ago to a complication to a common injury. That made me open my eyes to so many things. I will plan for our retirement, I hope that the two of us can grow old together and I also make the most of our time together now. All of life is a give and take, I just learned to give a little more now.

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Take it from one who knows.. If your DH had been diagnosed with cancer and a multitude of other serious health problems and you had to spend every single penny of your life savings, pension, IRA and whatever else you had, you would never, ever regret it - no matter what followed after that.. I was able to keep my DH with me for 10 years and I have no regrets.. You can't put a price tag on that..

 

[DMRick]

Without my life partner, my retirement wouldn't mean a whole lot. I'm sure C.Ann, poor would work, if it could get you your hubby back
We've been together for 40 years (we met when I was in high school, him in college), and I can honestly say I've never once said, I wish we had done less before, so that now we can do more. Oh shoot C.Ann..I hope I didn't make you cry.

It does make me sad that you and your DH did not get many more years together. As you and I have discussed, I almost lost my DH a little under 5 years ago to a complication to a common injury. That made me open my eyes to so many things. I will plan for our retirement, I hope that the two of us can grow old together and I also make the most of our time together now. All of life is a give and take, I just learned to give a little more now.

 

[C.Ann]

I for one would like to actually like you on these boards. Maybe our comments are to try and show you a gentler way to make your point and still preach the same message. Also an apology, when you unintentionally hurt somebodies feelings, goes a long way to healing. The only person we know is the one that you present to us via your written word, and that is the only one you know of us.

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Nice post!

 

[imsayin]

C.Ann, you really are too funny. You're sorry because I don't want my in-laws to live with me? Yeah, I'm sure that I'm the "odd person out" on that one....lol!

I don't want to get in the crossfire of the discussions, but I have to agree with not wanting family visitors for an extended period of time. While I love them all dearly, more than 10 days can be too much togetherness.

 

[mickeyfan2]

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Take it from one who knows.. If your DH had been diagnosed with cancer and a multitude of other serious health problems and you had to spend every single penny of your life savings, pension, IRA and whatever else you had, you would never, ever regret it - no matter what followed after that.. I was able to keep my DH with me for 10 years and I have no regrets.. You can't put a price tag on that..

I so agree. I would have used every penny we had and gone into debt to keep him. I would have put our home up for sale and took a second job. We got lucky and it did not cost us too much money. When he got out of the ICU and finally came home, I found myself just wanting to sit and watch TV togther. It was the greatest feeling in the world. And yes I would have chosen living my end life in poverty to have him for more years. I am glad that C.Ann has such great memories of those 10 years in addition to all the previous years.
I would love to have the relationship with my mom that C.Ann and her DD/DSil/DGD have. That is so precious.

 

[MrsPete]

This does not make a person shallow, but having to tell everybody how big your combined salary is, how much more you have in savings then family/friends and bragging about personal belonging makes somebody shallow.

If you're talking about meeting friends for dinner and telling about your salary, etc., then I agree.

On the other hand, if you're reading a travel - budget board and specifically a thread concerning what it takes to fund a comfortable retirement, then I disagree. If you click on this thread, you obviously are interested in the topic of retirement and funding, and such details are to be expected.

 

[C.Ann]

Without my life partner, my retirement wouldn't mean a whole lot. I'm sure C.Ann, poor would work, if it could get you your hubby back
We've been together for 40 years (we met when I was in high school, him in college), and I can honestly say I've never once said, I wish we had done less before, so that now we can do more. Oh shoot C.Ann..I hope I didn't make you cry.

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Ironically, today would have been our 29th anniversary and that's why I'm here in the mountains for the weekend.. I just didn't want to be at my DD's house - the last place where I saw him happy, laughing and smiling..

You hit the nail right on the head.. I would GLADLY be the person sleeping on the cardboard box on the sidewalk if I could have Bill sleeping right there with me.. And no - you didn't make me cry - I just made myself cry with that last sentence..

Do whatever you can with that wonderful husband of yours now.. There are no "second chances"....

 

[mickeyfan2]

If you're talking about meeting friends for dinner and telling about your salary, etc., then I agree.

On the other hand, if you're reading a travel - budget board and specifically a thread concerning what it takes to fund a comfortable retirement, then I disagree. If you click on this thread, you obviously are interested in the topic of retirement and funding, and such details are to be expected.

I was refering to the former. I was trying to point out that that was not shallow and I did not see anybody actually use those words.

 

[DVCLiz]

Well, this got ugly, and I didn't mean for it to, but the two of you are polar opposites on most of these threads, so I'm not surprised!!!! It is interesting to read, since you do pretty accurately represent the two ends of the spectrum. I'm sure most people fall somewhere in the middle.

It's completely unrealistic to think it's "sad" that extended family visits aren't the norm. I can assure you that I don't know ANYONE who would welcome that kind of visit from family. It's just not how anyone I know would react.

Those of us in the under 50 crowd (and I'm not in it for much longer!!!) who have seen the new reailty of lost pensions and scary statistics for the future of health care costs, etc. wouldn't dream of leaving ourselves unprepared to the tune of some of you. Others who have more hands-on experience and have seen that their retirement costs are fairly low might laugh at the Chicken Little thinking of some of the regular posters on this board. It's all a matter of which side of the fence you're on, and if you're sitting on it, whether it feels strong enough to support you for life.

I don't know if I'll ever get to my origianl snapshot - it was more of a "what would it take to feel completely and totally secure" kind of question, not my personal financial picture laid out naked for all to see! I do feel pretty strongly about a good estate plan and an inheritance, though. I don't agree with the (supposed to be funny, I guess) advice that your check to the funeral home should bounce. And I don't agree that it always leads to *******. A properly executed estate plan shouldn't make anyone unhappy - if all the decisions have been made carefully and all the loose ends tied up, AND if the parties involved have had open and honest communication well before. That's why I put that in my original snapshot.

 

[C.Ann]

I don't want to get in the crossfire of the discussions, but I have to agree with not wanting family visitors for an extended period of time. While I love them all dearly, more than 10 days can be too much togetherness.

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No crossfires, but I am amazed by the number of people who feel this way about their relatives.. It's really sad to me and I'm not quite sure how "I love them all dearly" and "more than 10 days can be too much togetherness" fits in the same sentence..

When I told my DD, her DH and my DGD that I was coming up here to the mountains for the weekend all I got was moans, groans, and comments such as, "It's WAY too early! You never go up there this soon!! Are you sure you're only staying a few days?" Then once I arrived here the daily phone calls began.. "Are you really staying all weekend?" "The weatherman says it's going to get pretty cold - you might want to think about coming home.." And on and on.. Everyone was taking turns calling trying to get me to come home.. I am SOOOOOOO blessed!!! I knew my family was special, but after hearing how others feel, now I know they're REALLY special!

 

[mickeyfan2]

I am SOOOOOOO blessed!!! I knew my family was special, but after hearing how others feel, now I know they're REALLY special!

Yes you are blessed. A healthy family relationship is learned just as like a frugal life style from ones parents. It is obvious that you were a great example.

 

[C.Ann]

It's completely unrealistic to think it's "sad" that extended family visits aren't the norm. I can assure you that I don't know ANYONE who would welcome that kind of visit from family. It's just not how anyone I know would react.

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It may be completely unrealistic in your world, but it isn't in ours and I'm old enough to remember the days when generations of families all lived together in the same house and it made for a very happy, loving atmosphere for all involved.. I guess we're just "unique" - much the same as the uniqueness of what I want and need out of my retirement doesn't jive with the expectations of others.. All I know is that it works for us, so it's all good..