When a friend confides they're pretty deep in debt...

[knewton64]

How about this?

Get her a copy of one of Dave Ramsay's books. (I've only read one, but forget its title. Do a little homework, and find one that applies.)

Then tell her you were shopping, thought of your conversation, and thought this might help. And that you promise not to bring up the subject again, though you would be more than happy to help her brainstorm ways to cut their debt if she wants to discuss it.

Then drop the subject, leaving the ball in her court.

Look what I did in relation to my home mortgage when my MArch 2013 vacation got canceled by the booking agent!!


It's listed on bottom of page 1 of my below "My adventures n San Fran" trip report and finishes on top of page 2.








I wish this person well.




T.T.F.N.

 

[englishteacha]

I agree with Aliceacc's post.

 

[chimilady]

So those who buy into our debt-driven consumer culture are not mature, responsible, or contributing to society? There's no maybe about it; that certainly is judgmental.

Well they're certainly contributing to society, as our economy is driven by consumerism. But a person who is loaded in debt and keeps spending like it will burn a whole in their pockets are certainly not mature nor responsible, but they could be if they actually change their ways, and thousands of people turn their lives around every day.

But yes, all but one of my good friends are responsible people. The one would be, but she just went through a divorce and her ex didn't pay anything, so now she will be joining the bankruptcy filing group.

 

[Colleen27]

Well they're certainly contributing to society, as our economy is driven by consumerism. But a person who is loaded in debt and keeps spending like it will burn a whole in their pockets are certainly not mature nor responsible, but they could be if they actually change their ways, and thousands of people turn their lives around every day.

But yes, all but one of my good friends are responsible people. The one would be, but she just went through a divorce and her ex didn't pay anything, so now she will be joining the bankruptcy filing group.

I just don't see spending habits as the moral barometer that some (esp. DR followers, it seems) do. It is NORMAL in our culture to have a big mortgage, a few credit cards, a couple car loans, etc. Is it a bad idea? I absolutely think so - the fact is that you have more freedom and more choices in life when you don't have debt. But I don't think choosing to be part of the "rat race" by jumping on the minimum payment treadmill makes one immature or irresponsible, just not as focused or determined to buck social expectations and in many cases ignorant of how well live can be lived without borrowing.

I also don't equate "has debt" with "the bankruptcy filing group". A lot of people have debt and spend their lives servicing that debt without shirking it in bankruptcy.

 

[davedmaine]

Don't worry.. Eventually the govt' will come along and restructure her mortgage or bail out her credit card debt. She'll be fine. I recommend she keep spending.

 

[eliza61]

Don't worry.. Eventually the govt' will come along and restructure her mortgage or bail out her credit card debt. She'll be fine. I recommend she keep spending.

LOL was waiting for some one to get in a snide dig on the government which is totally irrelevant to op's post.

 

[mrsklamc]

Look what I did in relation to my home mortgage when my MArch 2013 vacation got canceled by the booking agent!!

Good for you! Just make sure they applied it all to the principle!

 

[chimilady]

I just don't see spending habits as the moral barometer that some (esp. DR followers, it seems) do. It is NORMAL in our culture to have a big mortgage, a few credit cards, a couple car loans, etc. Is it a bad idea? I absolutely think so - the fact is that you have more freedom and more choices in life when you don't have debt. But I don't think choosing to be part of the "rat race" by jumping on the minimum payment treadmill makes one immature or irresponsible, just not as focused or determined to buck social expectations and in many cases ignorant of how well live can be lived without borrowing.

I also don't equate "has debt" with "the bankruptcy filing group". A lot of people have debt and spend their lives servicing that debt without shirking it in bankruptcy.

Living above your means is definitely a responsibility and maturity issue. Mature people know the differences between wants and needs. It's one thing if you can afford 3 iPhones and pay for them, it's another to buy 3 iPhones and NOT be able to pay for them. I absolutely equate debt with the bankruptcy filing group. At 24% interest rates, people who only look at minimum payments wind up in over their heads in no time. 10K turns into 20K which turns into 60K quite easily. I've seen it happen to many of my acquaintances. Yet they will be the first ones to complain about the middle class getting squeezed and the economy, blah blah blah.

 

[eliza61]

Living above your means is definitely a responsibility and maturity issue. Mature people know the differences between wants and needs. It's one thing if you can afford 3 iPhones and pay for them, it's another to buy 3 iPhones and NOT be able to pay for them. I absolutely equate debt with the bankruptcy filing group. At 24% interest rates, people who only look at minimum payments wind up in over their heads in no time. 10K turns into 20K which turns into 60K quite easily. I've seen it happen to many of my acquaintances. Yet they will be the first ones to complain about the middle class getting squeezed and the economy, blah blah blah.

Interesting. Ive seen perfectly mature, responsible people lose their jobs or get into a major car accident and get in debt and according to your litmus test they are now morally bankrupt. So all the millionaires that do dishonest things are cool because they can pay their bills? Now we know why Americans worship the almighty dollar. As long as you pay your bills your fine?
I judge peoples worth differently. Lol I totally understand the "housewives " attraction.

In all seriousness, what happens if one of your friends buys done thing they feel worth going in debt for, are they no longer your friend?

Let me just say my friends pretty much have been my friends for over 40 years. WE were friends when we really were stupid and irresponsible. LOL. They have been with me through college, marriages, birth of children, deaths of parents, children and spouses. So if one of them told me that they were deep in debt, I would probably hold their hand and give them some advice but I doubt very seriously if all of a sudden I would think they are irresponsible and immature. I am also very happy that my friends value more in me than my fico score.

 

[Aliceacc]

After Hurricane Sandy, I know a whole lot of people who have maxed out their credit cards. It may be fiscally irresponsible, but they "Wanted" things they may not have "needed"-- like some furniture for the apartments they're renting as they rebuild their homes, or the building materials to do so. Some of them may even have charged some toys last month, as an alternative to explaining to a 4 year old that Santa had a hurricane. "Wants", not "needs" I know.

Three or 4 years from now, when they're still paying the debts they incur as they struggle to get back on their feet, there will be people saying it's their own fault that they're living beyond their means, that they were irresponsible to accrue debt for things they didn't "need."

Of course, those people tend to have a roof over their heads.

 

[Southern Bell]

Well, You couldn't help but run up alot of debt like that. I mean you would have just lost everything. What else could you do! Probably even ones with insurance didn't recover their losses.

 

[Aliceacc]

Well, You couldn't help but run up alot of debt like that. I mean you would have just lost everything. What else could you do! Probably even ones with insurance didn't recover their losses.

Oh, they haven't BEGUN to recover their losses.

But 3 or 4 or 10 years from now, when they're still in debt, the hurricane will be old news. And people will be pontificating about how financiallly irresponsible they were to have gotten so deeply into debt.

 

[crisi]

One thing I've learned is that my own need for financial security is quite different from many other people's.

I have a friend - in her 50s - who travels around the country in her van with her dog, doing art and working odd jobs - often migrant farm labor - she is happy - I'd worry about the social security quarters I'm not getting in.

I have a friend - one kid in college and two more behind - 45 - who is going $60k in debt for her oldest for college, and she has two more after that. I'd check myself in to the mental hospital, but she is fine with it.

She is not you. Appreciate her for her. If she brings it up again, ask if she is just venting or if she is looking for advice. If she isn't borrowing money from you (or asking), or unloading regularly with the "I don't know how you can afford..." whine, then take the friendship for what it is.

But be a good friend. Don't invite them out for dinner, stay away from going to the mall with her - make sure your activities that you do as friends are cheap - walks in parks, free home tours, wine at home.

 

[Kathi OD]

Oh, they haven't BEGUN to recover their losses.

And you ain't kidding about that! Over two months later and my parents still haven't seen dime one from their flood insurance company. In fact, the company still hasn't told them what they feel their loss is! It's absolutely ridiculous...

As to the topic at hand, personally, I don't understand why some people feel superior over debt. Big deal. You choose to live your life your way...let other people choose how to live theirs. If they get over their head, unless they ask you to help, you have no right to tell them what they should be doing.

If I confided in someone that I had more debt than I was comfortable with, and they gave a Dave Ramsey book, I'd be pretty po'd. Chances are I was just blowing off steam to a good friend...not asking for an opinion on what to do.