Whats Wrong with Disney?

[btk2333]

Disney only needs FP+ because they have opted not to add enough attractions to balance the amount of new bodies coming in the gates.

well couldn't that argument have been said about legacy FP as well? If you create enough rides, then you don't have any lines...

I would make the counter argument that Disney only needs FP+ because they are remarkably successful at keeping their parks full and guests wanting to come. You don't need FP+ or legacy FP if no one comes to your parks either.

 

[mom2rtk]

well couldn't that argument have been said about legacy FP as well? If you create enough rides, then you don't have any lines...

I would make the counter argument that Disney only needs FP+ because they are remarkably successful at keeping their parks full and guests wanting to come. You don't need FP+ or legacy FP if no one comes to your parks either.

True. But there's a balance in there that doesn't require a 1:1 attraction to guest ratio.

 

[btk2333]

True. But there's a balance in there that doesn't require a 1:1 attraction to guest ratio.

true i wish dhs and dak could be closer to mk's ride:guest ratio. I'm optimistic about Star Wars but I'm an even bigger Star Wars fanboy than I am a Disney fanboy

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I think if they do it right, Avatar can be a fine addition to Animal Kingdom. It is a tight fit to do everything there in a day but only because of the abbreviated hours and the show times of the big shows there. Otherwise, it's a less than one day park. So it could use an expansion. The two attractions I've heard of so far sound interesting. And more importantly, Avatar fits in there. None of the other big ideas would fit in Animal Kingdom. It was a fun movie imo and a popular one. It grossed 2.78 billion at the box office and remains #1 of all time world wide. For comparison, the highest grossing Potter movie was the last one at 1.42 billion world wide. So Avatar has some punch behind it.

As for Disney parks keeping pace with Harry, well so far, it looks to me like Harry isn't doing much of anything to Disney. Disney seems to be keeping its own pace regardless of what Universal does. And in fact, Disney's California Adventure just passed Islands of Adventure this year and passed Universal Studios Florida last year. So it looks like those that scoffed at the improvements out there were wrong. Further, MK jumped 6% last year and that is all without the signature attraction of the FL expansion open. A 6% jump at a park that was already getting as robust attendance as MK is a big jump. So those that scoffed at that park's upgrade were wrong too. It looks to me like Seaworld and Busch Gardens are the parks taking the loss in all of this as their attendance declined last year.

 

[mom2rtk]

It was a fun movie imo and a popular one. It grossed 2.78 billion at the box office and remains #1 of all time world wide. For comparison, the highest grossing Potter movie was the last one at 1.42 billion world wide. So Avatar has some punch behind it.

If you're going to base the popularity on sales, you might want to include book sales in that total.

 

[Planogirl]

true i wish dhs and dak could be closer to mk's ride:guest ratio. I'm optimistic about Star Wars but I'm an even bigger Star Wars fanboy than I am a Disney fanboy

Me too. I'm excited and optimistic but nervous all at the same time.

 

[btk2333]

If you're going to base the popularity on sales, you might want to include book sales in that total.

I love HP- I went to midnight showings for every movie after the second and midnight launch events for the last 4 books.

That being said I've made 8 trips to Orlando since WWHP opened and haven't gone to Universal once.

This is for a variety of reasons
1) We never rent a car- DME makes it too easy not to drive; however, this makes it very difficult and expensive to get to Universal
2) I could never spend a week at Universal's parks so we always end up staying on Disney property, see above for difficulties that presents
3) I can't justify the added cost of Universal's one day ticket vs. one extra day at WDW

I do hope I make it Universal soon- I did love the Hulk rollercoaster as a kid but I have not missed it on my recent trips

 

[Planogirl]

I love HP- I went to midnight showings for every movie after the second and midnight launch events for the last 4 books.

That being said I've made 8 trips to Orlando since WWHP opened and haven't gone to Universal once.

This is for a variety of reasons
1) We never rent a car- DME makes it too easy not to drive; however, this makes it very difficult and expensive to get to Universal
2) I could never spend a week at Universal's parks so we always end up staying on Disney property, see above for difficulties that presents
3) I can't justify the added cost of Universal's one day ticket vs. one extra day at WDW

I do hope I make it Universal soon- I did love the Hulk rollercoaster as a kid but I have not missed it on my recent trips

We split our trips now but we always have a car. We did it once without a car and the taxi cost when we moved was outrageous!

 

[sonofanarchy]

I would be shocked if you really and truly have done everything there is to do at every park

Is the number 24 coming from 8 trips in 3 parks? I'm not sure where your number is coming from; however, somethings are really easy just by going at different times- off the top of my head.

1) Food and Wine
2) Flower and Garden
3) Fourth of July
4) Christmas/ Christmas party
4a) Jingle Cruise
5) Be Our Guest Restaurant
6) Under the Sea
7) Enchanted Tales with Belle
8) Princess Fairytale Hall
9) Festival of Fantasy Parade
10) Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
11) Celebrate the Magic Castle Show
12) Anna and Elsa
13) Star Tours (re-opened just over 3 years ago..)
14) Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom

(only including things that we do/would do (haven't personally done the Mine Train yet)- there are other things at like Wilderness Explorers, the meet and greets in Storybook Circus, Legend of Jack Sparrow, that we don't do)
and things that cost more money but I still include because they're new... especially dining because that's a huge reason why we go to Disney... (if you can't tell Epcot is our favorite park)- again only including places at which we've actually eaten
14) Spice Road Table
15) La Cava
16) Tutto Gusto
17) The ice cream martini place in France
18) refurbished Cali Grill
19) RunDisney events (Wine and Dine)

then there are things that aren't necessarily new but new to us
20) First time at JellyRolls
21) First time bringing our twins (February 2015) which will make everything old new again
22)Staying at new resorts
23) First time Drinking Around the World


sorry I fell a little short of 24 and I broke some of your rules but I'm sure there are other things I just can't come up with and your rules are arbitrary anyway- we are just as excited about a new restaurant as a new ride and are excited to be entering a new phase in our lives where we can enjoy the "kiddy rides" again through the eyes of our children.

You're completely missing the point.

The majority of those things you listed, you COULD have done before. You simply chose not to.

 

[btk2333]

You're completely missing the point.

The majority of those things you listed, you COULD have done before. You simply chose not to.

5-18 are new - plus at least three that i named but didn't count because i haven't done them personally... I think you're missing the point- the old tv shows were saying that you could always find something new to do, not that it would have been built since the last time you were there, that's the great thing about WDW, there are things that have been there for 30 years that I still discover despie >30 trips in addition to new constructions- if you've literally done everything on property and don't want to do things again you should go somewhere else you've spent a very large amount of time and money at WDW- you're not the average guest.

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

I'm sure The Wondrous World of Pandora (or whatever they're calling it) will be lovely, and entertaining. I wish they'd picked a different IP for the space. I do not believe the gross of the films indicates popularity...I think it indicates HYPE. I paid money to see it...but I wasn't a fan walking away. Got sucked in by the promises and the hype

Avatar's first weekend it drew about 77 million placing it 2nd for a December opening. As for openings all time, it's down the list a bit. Still, That could all be attributed to hype. But as we know, hype only goes so far once word of mouth gets around and reviews go out, so if it was all hype and not popularity we would expect a drop off from there. However, in reality, Avatar featured a very low drop off between its first and 2nd weekend of just 1.8% setting a record for 2nd weekend (since broken by the Avengers) Revenues the third weekend dropped just 9% setting a third weekend record. It also set a 4th weekend record, a 5th weekend record (plus an all time record for MLK day weekend) a 6th weekend record, and a 7th weekend record. I'm Not sure if any of those have since been beaten or not. A film that is nothing but hype just doesn't set those kind of records weeks into its release and doesn't go on to become #1 box office all time at 2.7 billion plus. In comparison, the last Harry Potter, made 1.3 billion plus. One can say it was hyped. But with 1.3 billion, I'd say there was something other than hype there. Otherwise it wouldn't be #4. Similarly, with 2.7 billion, there has to be something there other than just hype too with Avatar. I personally didn't like Titanic. But it was a popular film with more to it than just hype or it wouldn't be #2.

 

[btk2333]

Avatar's first weekend it drew about 77 million placing it 2nd for a December opening. As for openings all time, it's down the list a bit. Still, That could all be attributed to hype. But as we know, hype only goes so far once word of mouth gets around and reviews go out, so if it was all hype and not popularity we would expect a drop off from there. However, in reality, Avatar featured a very low drop off between its first and 2nd weekend of just 1.8% setting a record for 2nd weekend (since broken by the Avengers) Revenues the third weekend dropped just 9% setting a third weekend record. It also set a 4th weekend record, a 5th weekend record (plus an all time record for MLK day weekend) a 6th weekend record, and a 7th weekend record. I'm Not sure if any of those have since been beaten or not. A film that is nothing but hype just doesn't set those kind of records weeks into its release and doesn't go on to become #1 box office all time at 2.7 billion plus. In comparison, the last Harry Potter, made 1.3 billion plus. One can say it was hyped. But with 1.3 billion, I'd say there was something other than hype there. Otherwise it wouldn't be #4. Similarly, with 2.7 billion, there has to be something there other than just hype too with Avatar. I personally didn't like Titanic. But it was a popular film with more to it than just hype or it wouldn't be #2.

agreed comparing avatar to harry potter is as silly as comparing universal orlando to WDW

 

[Cannot_Wait_4Disney]

If you're going to base the popularity on sales, you might want to include book sales in that total.

Why should I include Book sales when I'm looking at movies.? I would expect that the popularity of the Harry Potter books would be reflected in the popularity of the movies seeing as how the books came out first and were well received. As for any Avatar books, I wouldn't expect them to be that popular. When movies come out first, the popularity doesn't usually extend back to books like it does the other way around from books to movies. Moreover, I wasn't saying Potter wasn't popular nor really getting into a blow for blow comparison of mine is more popular than yours. My point was let us not pretend that Avatar wasn't popular. Similarly to the Potter movies, the figures show it was.

 

[mom2rtk]

Why should I include Book sales when I'm looking at movies.?

I would refer to it as the popularity of the franchise. People don't just visit theme parks because of movies.

 

[sonofanarchy]

5-18 are new - plus at least three that i named but didn't count because i haven't done them personally... I think you're missing the point- the old tv shows were saying that you could always find something new to do, not that it would have been built since the last time you were there, that's the great thing about WDW, there are things that have been there for 30 years that I still discover despie >30 trips in addition to new constructions- if you've literally done everything on property and don't want to do things again you should go somewhere else you've spent a very large amount of time and money at WDW- you're not the average guest.

You said you've been 3 times a year for the past 8 years, which means I'm assuming you've been at least once this year. Taking that into account
let's look at 5-18:

5) Be Our Guest Restaurant - Not new.
6) Under the Sea - Not new.
7) Enchanted Tales with Belle
8) Princess Fairytale Hall Different location. I'd hardly call that a new experience.
9) Festival of Fantasy Parade
10) Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
11) Celebrate the Magic Castle Show
12) Anna and Elsa
13) Star Tours (re-opened just over 3 years ago..) - Not new.
14) Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom - Not new.

(only including things that we do/would do (haven't personally done the Mine Train yet)- there are other things at like Wilderness Explorers, the meet and greets in Storybook Circus, Legend of Jack Sparrow, that we don't do)
and things that cost more money but I still include because they're new... especially dining because that's a huge reason why we go to Disney... (if you can't tell Epcot is our favorite park)- again only including places at which we've actually eaten
14) Spice Road Table
15) La Cava - Not new.
16) Tutto Gusto - Not new.
17) The ice cream martini place in France - Not new.
18) refurbished Cali Grill - Yeah, OK.

Of course I haven't done everything. I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to go to Spice Road Table. Neither does my wife or kids. However, there ARE things that are new at Universal that we all want to do, which is why we spend a week there before going to Disney.

Does that mean I don't love Disney for the nostalgia? Absolutely not. On some levels, Universal won't ever be able to compete with WDW to me. I'm simply pointing out very obvious facts. With Universal, there actually are new things to see each trip that appeal to everyone. Most of what Disney has done as of late is open up a bunch of places to have a drink. That, to me, doesn't count as a new experience.

 

[johde]

The problem with WDW is that Disney is treating it like a cash cow. Disney can spend money, and is spending money on great rides all around the world. It seems like WDW is being used as a giant ATM machine for expansion elsewhere.

Also, while HP has done brilliantly for IoA, and will do well for US also, Universal seem to be throwing all their eggs in one basket. What happens in ten years time when Potter may no longer be popular due to there being no more books or movies. Yes it is a huge franchise, but it's not Star Wars, so it could lose popularity.

Since 2008, Universal Orlando has had the following "major" expansions/rethemes.

2008 Simpson’s ride
2009 Hollywood Rip Ride Rocket
2010 WWOHP- Hogsmead
2013 Springfield retheme and Kudo and Kang ride
2013 Transformers
2014 WWoHP – Diagon Alley
2015-16 King Kong at IOA

They are definitely using Harry potter as a major calling card and selling point. But, they also seem to be adding, updating other properties into their arsenal. If we compare that to the "major" expansions/Rethemes at WDW during that time Frame.

2008 Toy Story Mania
2009 Sum of all Thrills
2011 Test Track 2.0
2012 Fantasyland phase I
2014 Fantasyland Phase II
2017-2018 Avatarland

I like both of both WDW and UO. From a nostalgia standpoint, WDW is still probably top dog. But looking at their recent work, Universal has been stepping up to the plate in a big way especially when you consider WDW has 1,076 acres of theme park space and 42,000 acres total to Universal's 234 acres of theme park space and 840 acres overall.

 

[Suvadoo]

I'm sorry I didn't make myself very clear: At Disney, most of the money they are spending is not for new attractions.

 

[Suvadoo]

You did not include the examples I provided in your response. I was speaking about events that have additional charges. Yes, Universal is making money, but I feel as if they are offering things in return for your admission. Whereas Disney? Not so much.

 

[Suvadoo]

You said you've been 3 times a year for the past 8 years, which means I'm assuming you've been at least once this year. Taking that into account
let's look at 5-18:

5) Be Our Guest Restaurant - Not new.
6) Under the Sea - Not new.
7) Enchanted Tales with Belle
8) Princess Fairytale Hall Different location. I'd hardly call that a new experience.
9) Festival of Fantasy Parade
10) Seven Dwarfs Mine Train
11) Celebrate the Magic Castle Show
12) Anna and Elsa
13) Star Tours (re-opened just over 3 years ago..) - Not new.
14) Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom - Not new.

(only including things that we do/would do (haven't personally done the Mine Train yet)- there are other things at like Wilderness Explorers, the meet and greets in Storybook Circus, Legend of Jack Sparrow, that we don't do)
and things that cost more money but I still include because they're new... especially dining because that's a huge reason why we go to Disney... (if you can't tell Epcot is our favorite park)- again only including places at which we've actually eaten
14) Spice Road Table
15) La Cava - Not new.
16) Tutto Gusto - Not new.
17) The ice cream martini place in France - Not new.
18) refurbished Cali Grill - Yeah, OK.

Of course I haven't done everything. I have absolutely no desire whatsoever to go to Spice Road Table. Neither does my wife or kids. However, there ARE things that are new at Universal that we all want to do, which is why we spend a week there before going to Disney.

Does that mean I don't love Disney for the nostalgia? Absolutely not. On some levels, Universal won't ever be able to compete with WDW to me. I'm simply pointing out very obvious facts. With Universal, there actually are new things to see each trip that appeal to everyone. Most of what Disney has done as of late is open up a bunch of places to have a drink. That, to me, doesn't count as a new experience.

This is exactly how I feel. Disney advertises new experiences and most come with a pretty steep price tag: eg Harambe nights.
I'm sorry I've botched up so many of my responses. I'm learning and not doing a very good job of it.

 

[sonofanarchy]

This is exactly how I feel. Disney advertises new experiences and most come with a pretty steep price tag: eg Harambe nights.
I'm sorry I've botched up so many of my responses. I'm learning and not doing a very good job of it.

Yup. I get emails from both places, and 9 out of 10 from Disney are for experiences that come with an additional hefty price tag.