Whats Wrong with Disney?

[sonofanarchy]

You were actually making some valid points but you lost me with this statement. An inconvenience for sure, but really? A catastrophe? And yes, I've been there recently. Maybe I'm just in the minority but what happens at US doesn't really affect us much. Disney is Disney and always will be. They have our confidence that they will provide a wonderful vacation for our family. Disney hasn't come close to disappointing us yet and we can't plan our next trip soon enough.[/QUOTE ]

I see it as a catastrophic because of what has been taken away. They took some amazing, unique shops and turned it into a typical shopping plaza.

 

[Don Disney]

Simply put,WDW is resting on their laurels,and are not concerned...because WE keep giving them our money!!! Face it,WDW could have done waaaaay better than the"new"FL...a bit of a joke compared to what US has done.Disney has the market for sure,but they are pretty selfish about giving us better/more experiences than what they have for quite a long time....Avatar land...really? That's the best they could come up with? I guess it really does'nt matter to them....WE KEEP GIVING THEM OUR MONEY!!!! I love WDW,but threads like this make me not want to KEEP giving them my money!

 

[sonofanarchy]

Simply put,WDW is resting on their laurels,and are not concerned...because WE keep giving them our money!!! Face it,WDW could have done waaaaay better than the"new"FL...a bit of a joke compared to what US has done.Disney has the market for sure,but they are pretty selfish about giving us better/more experiences than what they have for quite a long time....Avatar land...really? That's the best they could come up with? I guess it really does'nt matter to them....WE KEEP GIVING THEM OUR MONEY!!!! I love WDW,but threads like this make me not want to KEEP giving them my money!

Bingo!

And I've been just as guilty as anyone. Only thing I can say is I've stopped giving them money to stay at the resorts. I love them, but they are so overpriced it's insulting. I rent points, which isn't much better, but at least it doesn't go to Disney directly.

Also, this is the first year in about a decade I'm not renewing my AP. Next year, we're going to Disneyland for the 1st time and will also go to Universal for a week (where we will be renewing our AP's.)

The Disney vs. Universal thing can go on forever but the bottom line that NOBODY can deny is just as you said - Disney is resting on it's laurels. As long as people keep giving them money, they feel no need to step up their game.

Just remember - Comcast owns Universal. Comcast has a lot of money. They're buying more land around Universal. They believe (as do I) that if they keep going the way they are going, eventually, they will lure even the most die-hard Disney fan over there for at least a few days.

 

[btk2333]

There used to be something said in almost every guide book about WDW: You could go back and always find something new. That has not been the case for many years. THAT is the main problem with WDW.

I'm sorry but that is just not true- I've been to WDW over 30 times (8 times in the last 3 years) and every time we've done multiple things that we've never done before. If you're not finding something new to do each trip it is your choice.

 

[sonofanarchy]

I'm sorry but that is just not true- I've been to WDW over 30 times (8 times in the last 3 years) and every time we've done multiple things that we've never done before. If you're not finding something new to do each trip it is your choice.

Or perhaps you haven't done every thing on every trip.

We have. If you're referring to other experiences that cost extra money whether in or outside of the theme parks, sure, there's more to do. If you're talking about things to do inside the parks included in your admission, if you've found multiple new things to do in 8 trips over 3 years, then you obviously weren't doing everything in the parks. Which is fine. Point is, there aren't that many new things in the parks. Unless, by my math, you've uncovered at least 24 new experiences over the past 8 years. If you have, please share them with the rest of us.

 

[RMulieri]

The blind loyalty argument is a good one. You can see that in many of these posts and there's nothing wrong with that. DS really worked on me for a while before I agreed to try Universal and I have a bit of an adventurous spirit. I couldn't imagine "wasting" my time at another themepark but he really wanted to go so off we went.

We've never looked back. My rose-colored glasses were ripped off my face and I was completely shocked at how much I liked the place. I knew at that point that trips were going to cost me a whole lot more since we would have to go to two themepark resorts from that point on. I don't dare return to SeaWorld.

Universal has made remarkable strides since we started going and they are doing that while fighting an uphill battle. They have to fight misperceptions such as them being only about thrill rides and having nothing to offer but the Harry Potter stuff and so on. Blind loyalty is great up to a point but sometimes a person might just discover that there is so much more out there. I can't speak for anyone else but I want it all.

I admit I was a snob and never thought I would EVER go to Universal..I went because DH refused to do another Disney trip and because Dd wanted to go so bad..I thought I would hate..I was stunned...I LOVED it ..So much so, I don't foresee another onsite disney trip anytime in the future.We have gone on Universal-only trips the last 2 years and are going again in Jan.We may or may not do a day or 2 at Disney..If you would have told me 5 yrs ago that I would be a Universal convert, I never would have believed..I am a thrill lover, Dh and DD are NOT and they still love it too

 

[luisov]

Simply put,WDW is resting on their laurels,and are not concerned...because WE keep giving them our money!!! Face it,WDW could have done waaaaay better than the"new"FL...a bit of a joke compared to what US has done.Disney has the market for sure,but they are pretty selfish about giving us better/more experiences than what they have for quite a long time....Avatar land...really? That's the best they could come up with? I guess it really does'nt matter to them....WE KEEP GIVING THEM OUR MONEY!!!! I love WDW,but threads like this make me not want to KEEP giving them my money!

You have a fair point. Disney is indeed resting on their laurels. They have the visitors, they are getting their money and they are not spending gigantic amounts of money in new experiences. I'm sure they feel like new additions are not necessary until they notice that their crowds are diminishing (which are not) or one of their parks is not working properly anymore.

I think it's unfair to underestimate Avatarland though. Your ''That's the best they could come up with?'' sounds as if you were qualifying the expansion as automatically bad, which we really can't know at this point. No, I don't like the story of Avatar, but I'm sure they could come up with some amazing stuff, just like some people don't like Harry Potter or Cars, yet they've provided two of the best theme park experiences in recent years. I mean, for expample who goes to Splash Mountain because they like Song of the South? As long as the rides are good (which again, we don't know yet), I don't think that the theme of the land will be that important. Visually, Avatar does provide lots of good opportunities to develop beautiful attractions. So what's the big deal if Disney isn't even going to use the movie plots for the rides?

 

[Networth]

I always sort of laugh when I see these threads. Competition is good let US do well with HP, let WDW do well with Avatar land. Do people really thing Pandora is going to stink? I mean really... If you believe that than your not seeing the big picture. It's not about the movie it's about the theme and a darn good theme and that's coming from someone who did not like the movie. If the sequels are a hit than it's just icing on the cake. It's a great fit for AK and will make the park a full day/night venue with a large influx of initial guests and continued flow of reoccurring guests. I can't speak for what US has going on behind the scenes but they are doing a great job with HP, and I hope they keep it up, again competition is good. Will US ever surpass Disney as the "gold standard" of theme parks?

No, never in my opinion based off of given facts. As long as families with young children exist Disney will be king with or without massive expansions. Take frozen as the latest example. So for those saying Disney is the next Eastern Airlines your using a very poor comparison. Just wait and see what WDW has coming down the pipeline in 5-10 years, their are things people are not even bringing up but if mentioned could cause a bit of an issue with someone's career. Yet of course Star Wars can be mentioned without jeopardizing someone's job. Even if 50% of some of the developmental ideas get the green light for SW alone, WDW will see a HUGE influx, SW is easily in the top 5 most beloved/best known franchises in history, and again that does not include if the new movies actually turn out well. I guess point being let US and WDW continue to "fight", we all win. As for what is wrong with Disney and "Disney is doomed" just revisit those thoughts again in another decade. As long as the higher ups green light some of the current WDW projects the growth at WDW is very bright. A PP already mentioned the World Drive crossing so obviously what I'm hearing from certain individuals isn't crazy talk.

 

[Travelgrrl]

After reading through this thread, it seems a lot of the responses are focused on Avatarland not being "as popular" as HP; and that may be accurate for your worldview, but a quick search shows that their fanbase is expansive, diverse, and dedicated to the world James Cameron created. So, I think what everyone needs to realize is that just because you don't like something, doesn't mean that there isn't an audience for it . There is a reason that it's the highest grossing movie of all time, ya know?

Avatar made something like $3.5 billion wordwide (but cost about $500 million to make and advertise, so let's call it an even $3 billion). Impressive, right?

JK Rowling alone made over a billion on the books, on the typically smallish author's share. 450 million Harry Potter books have sold so far, at about $15 - $25 each for hardcovers. The combined grosses of the HP films is about $8 billion, minus costs of about $1.5 billion, leaving roughly $6.5 billion. The Harry Potter brand alone (just the value of the name and merch rights) is estimated at $15 billion. (All figures from Time magazine)

In addition, one could argue that the Potter books are well on their way to becoming classic works of literature, similar to those that Disney built their foundation on (Cinderella, Snow White, Sleeping Beauty =The Brothers Grimm; The Little Mermaid = Hans Christian Anderson).

Twenty years from now, who is going to remember what the Sam Hill "Pandora" or "Avatar" are?

I love Disney, and I've had a ball at Universal, too. But Avatar seems such a ridiculous choice to base an entire land on, and arguing that it was as successful as Harry Potter just doesn't hold up.

 

[DOOM1001]

What keeps me coming back to Disney 8-10 times a year are the special events they have throughout the year.I end up doing two trips for Run Disney events,this year the Tower of Terror ten miler and the main marathon weekend in January,about 4-5 trips for the F&W and the F&G festivals,at least one if not two Christmas trips and another two trips or so where I'll visit Disney but the highlight of the trip are other parks special events like Bands Brew and BBQ at Sea World and Busch Gardens, Mardi Gras at Universal or Halloween Horror nights.My point is that Disney has me due to their events,the parks rides and attractions are secondary because they've gotten stale.I'll ride the rides I enjoy most but my point is that if it wasn't for the events the parks would get pretty boring pretty quickly and instead of 10 trips annually it'll be more like 4-5.In August for example I'll be doing a 4 day trip to hopefully hit everything new in the parks.One day at Disney to at least ride 7DMT,a day at Universal for Diagon Alley,a day at Aquatica for Ihus Breakaway falls and hopefully a day at Busch Gardens for Falcons fury if it's open.It's a non special events trip and if Falcons Fury is out because it's still not open the extra day is going to Universal,they might only have two parks but if I'm going strictly to ride rides they have more to do in those parks than Disney has in all 4,especially with the new Potter area.I'm also trying to get a room in the new Cabana Bay hotel,I toured it on my last trip in May and it was extremely cool even though it doesn't include express like the other three Universal hotels.

 

[fairyprincess88]

I was very, very blessed and surprised by the invite to accompany a friend who was invited to the media event for Diagon Alley. Now I will admit and have admitted that despite being raised a Disney kid and going to Disney yearly for more years than I can count that once Universal got the rights to Potter that they got the rights to my wallet with it in some regards. I am a Potter nerd and I do not hide that. However, I do still love Disney and still love visiting WDW.

With that said, I have to say, that there is nothing, absolutely nothing at WDW that is comparable to the marvel of themeing that Universal has created with Diagon Alley. It is honestly mind blowing. The level of detail, the immersion, the total package of what they created is indeed the game changer that the media is saying it is. I mean even taking out Potter, if this was a franchise I knew nothing about I would still be absolutely taken aback by it. It is something I have never seen in a theme park and the closet comparable on theme immersion I can think of is Disney Sea in Japan(which is AMAZING!) but Diagon might top even that. It's not just the rides or the shops but the interactive wands, the street actors, the entertainment, the food and beverages, even down to the currency-guests exchange "muggle money" for wizarding money to spend of course. There is no break in immersion.

Universal has certainly changed the rules of the game in the industry with this and I am not saying that as a biased Potter nerd. I was seriously shocked and not at all expecting what I walked into and that was after touting the praises of the first WWoHP. It is a level of detailed theme immersion to which has not yet been seen in any state side theme park.

Yes Disney will always be the big kid in town and nope it's not hurting for guests nor will it ever probably but Universal just cemented itself as an industry leader.

 

[luvsJack]

Well, maybe some of your thinking is correct, but don't forget, those 'older' kids will have families with little children that will bring them back to Disney!

I, and my children, are far from little 'kids', but grandchildren will keep you going to Disney. Also, we are also still 'little kids' when we see the Mouse!

There will 'always' be new families going, as maybe a few others leave, that 'may', or 'may not' be back.

There is 'no' shortage of families with children - reference the huge crowds!!!

Well sure there will never be a shortage of families with children. And there will always be those that love Disney purely because its Disney.

I will be taking my grandkids to Disney, no doubt about that. But when I do, I expect that we will not stay completely at Disney as in trips past.

Now, that's just for myself and I can't answer for everyone. And I would never even think to suggest that Disney is any danger of falling under Universal or something as laughable as Disney is going under.

I do think that a huge number of those families with small children also include children of an older age and if Disney wants to continue to keep those families on property for their entire vacation, they could amp up the attractions for those older kids. I don't mean huge roller coasters, that's not what they do. But attractions that interest those older kids. Maybe Star Wars will do that for them?

Avatar was a great movie. It may very well be a great addition to AK. But how many kids are going to be asking "what is this?" rather than "HEY!! MOOOOOMMMM I want to see this!!"? And while I enjoyed the movie and think the scenery was beautiful and could be done beautifully, I just don't think it has the staying power of Harry Potter.

 

[RMulieri]

I was very, very blessed and surprised by the invite to accompany a friend who was invited to the media event for Diagon Alley. Now I will admit and have admitted that despite being raised a Disney kid and going to Disney yearly for more years than I can count that once Universal got the rights to Potter that they got the rights to my wallet with it in some regards. I am a Potter nerd and I do not hide that. However, I do still love Disney and still love visiting WDW.

With that said, I have to say, that there is nothing, absolutely nothing at WDW that is comparable to the marvel of themeing that Universal has created with Diagon Alley. It is honestly mind blowing. The level of detail, the immersion, the total package of what they created is indeed the game changer that the media is saying it is. I mean even taking out Potter, if this was a franchise I knew nothing about I would still be absolutely taken aback by it. It is something I have never seen in a theme park and the closet comparable on theme immersion I can think of is Disney Sea in Japan(which is AMAZING!) but Diagon might top even that. It's not just the rides or the shops but the interactive wands, the street actors, the entertainment, the food and beverages, even down to the currency-guests exchange "muggle money" for wizarding money to spend of course. There is no break in immersion.

Universal has certainly changed the rules of the game in the industry with this and I am not saying that as a biased Potter nerd. I was seriously shocked and not at all expecting what I walked into and that was after touting the praises of the first WWoHP. It is a level of detailed theme immersion to which has not yet been seen in any state side theme park.

Yes Disney will always be the big kid in town and nope it's not hurting for guests nor will it ever probably but Universal just cemented itself as an industry leader.

I am so jealous you got to go to the media event..It looks amazing in pictures and video.I can't wait to experience it myself in Jan !!! My neighbors who know NOTHING about Harry Potter went to the media event and came back completely BLOWN away too..So much so , they just asked to borrow my Harry Potter books and movies ..LOL

 

[kaytieeldr]

This is a classic example of using WDW as a whole instead of what the real example is, which is the Magic Kingdom. The other 3 parks are more on pace with Universal's attendance than the Magic Kingdom. Saying Universal is almost always empty is just crazy. By comparison to the MK, the crowds are certainly more manageable, but empty? Hardly.

Any individual WDW theme park has had higher attendance the last three years than both USF parks. Magic Kingdom alone hosted more guests each year than both Universal parks together. http://www.totalorlando.com/blog/universal-park-become-orlandos-fourth-biggest-2014/

As for Avatar, it's about longevity. Being the highest grossing movie of all time is impressive, but what did that take, maybe 3 months? That doesn't mean it has the longevity to maintain an entire theme park land. Harry Potter was a proven entity. Not sure where you're getting your numbers from, but Islands of Adventure's attendance has remained steady since the opening of Hogsmeade. And with Diagon Alley set to open next door, that park's attendance is going to rise, especially given that all reviews are excellent. Gringott's is already being called the most incredible theme park experience anywhere. Nothing at WDW can lay claim to that. Back to Avatar, it's one thing to have a built in audience based on 7 books of source material. It's another to take a possible one off hit and expand beyond it. It's completely conceivable to say that the Avatar sequels will not be nearly as big as the original. I've said it before - I don't know one person who could possibly care about a sequel let alone 3 or 4. As for the theme park area, I'd be shocked if people make a special trip to Orlando just to see it, like people do with Harry Potter.

Interesting, that. It appears visitors will need a two-part pass and will be attending two parks. Sort of a sneaky way to increase attendance need numbers.

 

[JimmyV]

Interesting, that. It appears visitors will need a two-part pass and will be attending two parks. Sort of a sneaky way to increase attendance need numbers.

Yes. Not at all like park hopping between, oh, say Epcot and DHS.

 

[Suvadoo]

I don't think of it as a Disney vs Universal discussion. My issue is that Disney seems to be focused solely on generating more revenue for themselves. Almost every new project at WDW has been for increased revenue.

Examples: Polynesian DVC, Downtown Disney, the Marathons, Flower and Garden (adding food kiosks), Harambe nights, and Magic Bands. Everyone can enjoy these events/items as long as you're willing to pay an additional premium.

Disney is out to squeeze every dime out of their guests and not really improve the average guest experience. I don't think Disney will lose patrons, I just think people who used to spend all of their vacation at Disney will visit other Orlando attractions.

WDW is a lot of work: planning fast pass plus, ADR's both before arrival and during the vacation. It's almost more hassle than what it's worth. And this is coming from one of their biggest fans. I'm visiting Disneyland for 4 days in October and I have no ADR's!

 

[Suvadoo]

Yes. Not at all like park hopping between, oh, say Epcot and DHS.

At least park hopping at universal will not take 1 hour as it does at WDW!

 

[Patience]

Oh wow, this thread caused me to look up sneak peeks of Diagon Alley. Fabulous! As I said earlier, my 20 year old really wants to see the Harry Potter attractions at Universal and I see why. She grew up on Harry Potter books and movies and I'm sure she will find it amazing to walk through an attraction that looks just like it looks in the movies.

Edited to add that I agree about Avatarland. I don't think Avatar has nearly the staying power of Harry Potter or Star Wars. If we are at Animal Kingdom, of course we would check out Avatarland because it's something else to do at Animal Kingdom but as someone else said, it's not something that we would go to WDW just to see. I am not a huge Star Wars fan either but I think building either a Star Wars Land or another Cars land at Hollywood Studios would have a lot more staying power (and interest) than Avatarland.

 

[jaykorf001]

I have not been to Universal so I can't say whether I think it's for younger kids. But one of my close friends took her two sons (ages 4 and 7) to Orlando and did Disney and Universal. She said the kids overwhelmingly preferred Universal. When I was in Orlando for spring break, I was chatting with another mother at the resort pool. She was Canadian and had been there 2 weeks. She also told me that her not yet school aged children preferred Universal. So there has to be some appeal for younger kids?? Right?? I'm considering Universal for our next trip even though my son would be 6.

Sent from my iPad using DISBoards

 

[BugsDaddy]

It never fails that a thread like this turns into Universal vs. Disney. It does not have to be all or nothing for either of these parks. You can enjoy both.

I do however think that people are missing the real Disney expansion. Everyone is focusing on Avatarland as being the big Disney idea for the next 10 years and how that will compare against HP.

I think that the integration of Star Wars will be the big move for Disney. With the three new movies coming out for Star Wars, I will theorize that Star Wars will be much more relevant (again) in comparison to HP over the next 10 to 15 years and beyond. It is much more difficult to keep something relevant when no new source material is being created for it.

Disney did not spend all of that money for the rights to the Star Wars franchise solely for three more movies. I think plans are being developed for something big.