What's 'wrong' with Catholicism (dare we try to discuss without debate?)

[Disney Doll]

OK, no rolly-eyes.

We sent our kids to Catholic school, because
1. There are no Episcopal schools here
2. We wanted them to go to a school that has a CHRISTMAS holiday, not a "winter" holiday (ooops! almost put in a rolly-eyes here!)
3. We wanted them to be able to say a prayer before tests and athletic events
4. We wanted them to have a strong emphasis on service to your community

And it seems I'm not the only one here who has brought up the communion issue. Hey, no big deal to me. Their church, their rules.

But to exclude a child who is coming to the alter . . . well, I believe it was Jesus himself who said, "Let the little children COME TO ME."

Your chiuldren do go and get a blessing. They don't receive Communion because it is not their faith.

If they went to a Jewish/Hebrew school for the same reasons that you sent them to the Catholic school, would you also want them bar or bat mitzvah'd????

 

[golfgal]

I do not believe many articles of faith that a Catholic does, but I do believe they are Christians and love Jesus as the Saviour and son of God. My denomination often slights Catholics (I'm pentecostal) and I can't tolerate it. Anyone who 1) believes in Jesus as the Saviour and son of God and 2) lives by that faith is OK by me. I think we're all going to be pretty surprised when we get to heaven and find out all the nonsense we were to unforgiving about (rules of denominations, etc...)were pointless.

I don't know how to say this without it sounding like I am attacking you personally (I am not) but just a general observation, why would one religion attack another? I just have never understood it. I guess I have never attended a Catholic Church where the priest has ever said "Those Lutherans are all going to heck because they aren't Catholic" or any sort of thing. I posted earlier about the minister from one church in our town that has a letter to the editor weekly attacking the other religions in town. I just don't get it.

 

[golfgal]

I think the Catholic Church has every right to hold it members to sertain standards..It's when a church(any church) tries to hold the general public to those standards that I take issue.

How is the Catholic church holding the general public to any standard? Yes, they are out spoken about many things but they aren't putting you in jail for not believing what they believe?

 

[JennyMominRI]

How is the Catholic church holding the general public to any standard? Yes, they are out spoken about many things but they aren't putting you in jail for not believing what they believe?

I was peaking in general and not neccessarily of the church.. Which Is why I made the point about Spain a ways back

 

[declansdad]

Because, deep down, they know that the catholic faith is the true faith, and all the other "christian" churches came from the catholic church when the leader decided he did not like the teachings because of some personal desire. I.E. Anglican -- divorce, etc. Martin Luther, .......

The one way to attempt to get members is to attack the true faith. It is a sign of weakness.

I really hope you are trolling here. This is the kind of statement that makes people think ill about the catholic faith.

 

[Disney Doll]

Actually, my parents' divorce wasn't my choice...although, it was nice to see two people move on with their lives and regain their faith since they weren't so miserable anymore. What I didn't like was the church telling my father that he would have to get an annullment (basically saying his first marrieage never happened and both his daughters were now "illegitimate") in order to be an accepted Catholic again. He was told by a friend in a similar situation that he could "give a little more" and the rule might be overlooked.

As far as changing church doctrine, I did at least simply choose another religion. However, I do think the church needs to be more realistic about divorce - it just happens sometimes; priests being celibate; and many other things.

You know, so many times I hear that argument about an annullment "illegitimizing" children from a marriage.

An annullment doesn't illegitimize the children. The children were born in a marriage where the 2 participants thought at the time they were truly and really married. The children were born of "good faith", so to speak.

The best explanation I have ever heard of the difference bewteen annullment and divorce is that with annullment, something was missing at the beginning. With divorce, somehting was missing at the end. In other words, a marriage is annullable because one of the partners in the marriage witheld something, or didn't enter into it truthfully. A divorce is a result of the breakdown of the marriage.

Did your father ever actually look into an annullment and have a priest or other clergyperson ask him for more money. Or did he just take the word of his "friend" in a similar situation (who BTW may have been angry because his marriage was not annullable by the strict rules of the Church which may have put a damper on other aspects of his life).

So many people have so many friends who know so much about the very specifics doctrines of the Catholic Church without even doing any research, and yet no one wants to be Catholic. It amazes me.

 

[Lisa loves Pooh]

OT--DD..having trouble reading that typeset. Sorry .

 

[tmt martins]

I am amazed at that because I went to a wedding a few years back where the groom was not Catholic and the couple got married in my parish church.

You have to remember the Marriage is a sacrament and the wedding is the ceremony .
So in a strict RC parish you would not be able to recieve the sacrament unless you were catholic.
When DW converted (she chose to ) My 4th generation church would not marry us because we were living together .We went to another local parish with more relaxed rules.
We then redid or vowles 10 yrs.at our parish .Then was told to ask forgiveness for getting FIXED (no procreate)

 

[Disney Doll]

It would only result in the usual rhetoric and flames that are evident on every one of these threads.

Yes, we catholics are the victims of a lot of rhetoric, misinformation, and flames on these Catholic-bashing threads.

Thanks for noticing.

 

[Wishing on a star]

deleted...

my mistake.

oops, wrong thread!!!

 

[castleview]

You know, so many times I hear that argument about an annullment "illegitimizing" children from a marriage.

An annullment doesn't illegitimize the children. The children were born in a marriage where the 2 participants thought at the time they were truly and really married. The children were born of "good faith", so to speak.

The best explanation I have ever heard of the difference bewteen annullment and divorce is that with annullment, something was missing at the beginning. With divorce, somehting was missing at the end. In other words, a marriage is annullable because one of the partners in the marriage witheld something, or didn't enter into it truthfully. A divorce is a result of the breakdown of the marriage.

Did your father ever actually look into an annullment and have a priest or other clergyperson ask him for more money. Or did he just take the word of his "friend" in a similar situation (who BTW may have been angry because his marriage was not annullable by the strict rules of the Church which may have put a damper on other aspects of his life).

So many people have so many friends who know so much about the very specifics doctrines of the Catholic Church without even doing any research, and yet no one wants to be Catholic. It amazes me.

Yowsa, hurt my eyes, but got through the post. Anyway, my parents could qualify for both an annullment and a divorce. Many things were missing at the beginning and end. I saw the annullment as erasing something - it furthered my belief that there was too much denial in the Catholic church.

As for the "friend" of my dad - he did pay extra to get his annullment. I'm not sure if it was by means of a mass card, a hug offering or what. I'd give you his name, but he ironically lives in the same town as you.

What I'm wondering about is why you feel like Catholics are always attacked. I don't live far from you. Growing up I was one of four non-Catholics in my school. So I don't understand why you feel...bashed? in the minority? I'm not trying to be confrontational - I'm genuinely curious. Forgive me, if my vocab or writing style is suggesting otherwise. It's late and I'm losing it.

 

[tone.def]

I'm not Catholic(Jewish Convert) ,and please don't take it personally.. I don't think you have to accept everything to be a good Catholic.It's not my place to judge Catholics.. It's a simple fact though ,that the official position of the RCC is that the bread and wine are the ACTUAL body and Blood of Christ .
My Mother is a Catholic who struggles with some things she doesn't agree with..There is a difference between saying I disagree with the RCC stance on birth control and to say.It's a matter of interpretation as to whether or not the Catholic Church supports the use of birth control.

I wasn't taking it personally, I was just wondering why you were jumping all over me. I was brought up to not have to accept my faith at face value or to believe because I'm being told to. I was taught by the nuns that's okay to question things within our faith and it's okay to make your own decisions.

IMHO, what's wrong with the Catholic Church is people being told that they can't do that.

My choosing to believe the bread is a symbol of Christ and not actually him is my choice. I can't agree that it's actually him - I see a fricking piece of bread in front of me!

I also can't agree with the Vatican's stand on birth control either, but really, that's a whole other thread entirely!

 

[Wishing on a star]

What I'm wondering about is why you feel like Catholics are always attacked. I don't live far from you. Growing up I was one of four non-Catholics in my school. So I don't understand why you feel...bashed?

Good observation, and a very good question.

It seems like when somebody disagrees it is just automatically 'bashing'.

I have seen very very little real bashing. Nobody here is hurling insults or attacks.

But, hey, others can not disagree without being attacked and accused of bashing.

 

[JennyMominRI]

I wasn't taking it personally, I was just wondering why you were jumping all over me. I was brought up to not have to accept my faith at face value or to believe because I'm being told to. I was taught by the nuns that's okay to question things within our faith and it's okay to make your own decisions.

IMHO, what's wrong with the Catholic Church is people being told that they can't do that.

My choosing to believe the bread is a symbol of Christ and not actually him is my choice. I can't agree that it's actually him - I see a fricking piece of bread in front of me!

I also can't agree with the Vatican's stand on birth control either, but really, that's a whole other thread entirely!

Questioning everything is a big part of Judaism and I like that.. I hate the term cafeteria Catholic.I think most people do the best they can to follow their religions beliefs to the best of their ability.

 

[goofygirl]

What's wrong with the RCC? Well, it just seems so out of date. The catechisms regarding birth control, no women in the priesthood, abortion, euthanasia, sex outside of marriage and homosexuality are just not fitting in well with today's world, hence the drop in membership and seminary students. The rules certainly do not coincide with my life choices, so you won't see me converting any time soon.

QUOTE]


Ok but is this a bad thing? Perhaps if people tried to live more by the teachings of the church/Bible and less like they want to and try to fit Church into their life instead of fitting their life into Church wouldn't the world be a heck of a better place because basically all religions teach the same thing, love one an other and be good people.

I guess I don't see what is wrong with placing a value on human life (euthanasia, abortion, etc). I also don't see what is wrong with teaching abstinence. I see the Catholic church teaching a basic standard of moral behavior that people try to live by. Not everyone is going to be perfect in that but shouldn't you at least try? I am gathering from your post that you support many of these things otherwise you wouldn't have specifically listed them. I personally don't agree with them and whether that is because of my upbringing in the Catholic church or just who I am, I don't know but again, what is wrong with wanting people to live by some moral standards?

No its not a bad thing at all.
You are right, I do agree with some (not all) of the standards.

I think abstinence before marriage (especially among teens) is an excellent idea. I also believe all pregnancies should be planned, within a marriage , and not unplanned- that's why its called "family planning"; not "family unplanning".

In a perfect world, everyone would wait for marriage to have sex, marry for life and never divorce, not put themselves in a position where they find themselves considering an abortion, not have sex with mulitiple partners and use each other for sex, etc

Trouble is, its not a perfect world. And people are not going to try to live up to these standards. I am not siding with these people, I'm just being realistic.

 

[Buckalew11]

Well, I also believe it is only a symbol but I am not Catholic. I had no idea until reading the DIS about this belief. I was also tld that that is the reason that even though I am also a follower of Christ that I could not partake in communion if I visited the Catholic church.

I don't think Jenny was being disrespectful of you or jumping on you for your belief that the bread is a symbol but within the church it is a big deal. To me it is what sets Catholics apart from Protestants more than anything else. I don;t think I have ever seen jenny post in a rude way, she is just informative and was probably surprised by your thoughts. I was. But then again, I agree with you. (Still say if I truly believed that that bread really became the body that I'd never be able to swallow it. And I am not saying that disrespectful or *bashing* the belief a Catholic has by believing that. Truly it just gets me.)

 

[tone.def]

What I'm wondering about is why you feel like Catholics are always attacked. I don't live far from you. Growing up I was one of four non-Catholics in my school. So I don't understand why you feel...bashed? in the minority?

Ignorance must be bliss, but this is one of the first times I have seen an open dialogue on this topic.

As a Catholic, I don't feel bashed. I get sick of people rolling their eyes when I say I'm Irish Catholic now that I'm in the "real world" and laughed thinking it was a joke when a Jewish co-worker said I was "one of those". In hindsight, I knew what he was getting at, but at the time, I was like... wha?

To me it was a privledge to go to a Catholic high school in my city because we had the best sports teams, were known for our academics and further success in post-secondary education and we got involved in the community through volunteer work. I'm NOT saying Catholics do better, that was just my school and it was Catholic!

I truly don't see why Christianity has to be divisive and wish ill on others. So we interpret things a little differently, we don't deserve to be called pigs or swine for it, some have the Queen as head of their church, but when it comes down to it, we all have Christmas - why? Because that's when Jesus was born. We all have Easter - why? Jesus died, was buried and ressurected. We have these beliefs in common. At the end of the day, we all fall under the umbrella of "Christianity".

 

[JennyMominRI]

Well, I also believe it is only a symbol but I am not Catholic. I had no idea until reading the DIS about this belief. I was also tld that that is the reason that even though I am also a follower of Christ that I could not partake in communion if I visited the Catholic church.

I don't think Jenny was being disrespectful of you or jumping on you for your belief that the bread is a symbol but within the church it is a big deal. To me it is what sets Catholics apart from Protestants more than anything else. I don;t think I have ever seen jenny post in a rude way, she is just informative and was probably surprised by your thoughts. I was. But then again, I agree with you. (Still say if I truly believed that that bread really became the body that I'd never be able to swallow it. And I am not saying that disrespectful or *bashing* the belief a Catholic has by believing that. Truly it just gets me.)

Well JFTR,I don't believe in the True Presence either <G>

 

[castleview]

Ignorance must be bliss, but this is one of the first times I have seen an open dialogue on this topic.

As a Catholic, I don't feel bashed. I get sick of people rolling their eyes when I say I'm Irish Catholic now that I'm in the "real world" and laughed thinking it was a joke when a Jewish co-worker said I was "one of those". In hindsight, I knew what he was getting at, but at the time, I was like... wha?

To me it was a privledge to go to a Catholic high school in my city because we had the best sports teams, were known for our academics and further success in post-secondary education and we got involved in the community through volunteer work.

I truly don't see why Christianity has to be divisive and wish ill on others. So we interpret things a little differently, we don't deserve to be called pigs or swine for it, some have the Queen as head of their church, but when it comes down to it, we all have Christmas - why? Because that's when Jesus was born. We all have Easter - why? Jesus died, was buried and ressurected. We have these beliefs in common. At the end of the day, we all fall under the umbrella of "Christianity".

I wasn't referring to your post. Also if you read all the way back, I was raised by an Irish Catholic dad and split my religious time between that and my Scottish mother's Episcopalian church. I decided to go with the latter because I don't believe in some of the rules the Catholic church has adopted. I genuinely wanted to know why this person felt targeted because Catholics were certainly not in the minority where I lived.

I don't see why Christianity has to be decisive either. I have an aversion to those that think they are better Christians than I am and certainly don't want to be grouped with that. And, yes, I am aware that "I" has been written too many times in this post - sorry.

 

[Disney Doll]

Yowsa, hurt my eyes, but got through the post. Anyway, my parents could qualify for both an annullment and a divorce. Many things were missing at the beginning and end. I saw the annullment as erasing something - it furthered my belief that there was too much denial in the Catholic church.

As for the "friend" of my dad - he did pay extra to get his annullment. I'm not sure if it was by means of a mass card, a hug offering or what. I'd give you his name, but he ironically lives in the same town as you.

What I'm wondering about is why you feel like Catholics are always attacked. I don't live far from you. Growing up I was one of four non-Catholics in my school. So I don't understand why you feel...bashed? in the minority? I'm not trying to be confrontational - I'm genuinely curious. Forgive me, if my vocab or writing style is suggesting otherwise. It's late and I'm losing it.

Reread the thread. I'd also encourage you to look at the tile of the thread...I believ eit is "What's Wrong With Catholicism". You'll know why I feel like Catholics are bashed. If some of the things that are written about Catholics were written about any other religious or ethnic group, the outcry would be huge. But the Catholics...ahhh...it's OK to bash them. They have all those pedophile priests after all.

Too bad about your friend's father and his encounter with yet another less than savory representative of the Catholic Church. maybe we ought to get rid of all the leaders and start again. But humans are so easily corrupted....sigh....